Usability: Inconstant breadcrumb listing depending on role in course - Discussion

Usability: Inconstant breadcrumb listing depending on role in course - Discussion

by Mark Andrews -
Number of replies: 16

Hi all,

This issue is logged in the Moodle Tracker at: MDL-26394

We've come across an issue with the breadcrumbs structure. One of the great things about moodle 2 for us uses is the: 'View courses without participation' permission However we're noticing that the breadcrumb trail alters drastically depending the users role in the course (ie. enrolled or not enrolled)

1.1: If a user is enrolled they get the following Breadcrumb:

1.2: However if they are nor enrolled an navigate to a course they get:

This is causing issues with constancy of navigation with our users.

I guess my questions here are:

  1. Does anyone else perceive this as being a usability issue?
  2. If so, what solution would be best?

Should there perhaps be a site wide setting 'display full bread crumb' or an additional permission that allows full path to be displayed.

Thanks for looking at this post and please add your views here or on the tracker issue

Regards

Mark

Average of ratings:Useful (2)
In reply to Mark Andrews

Re: Usability: Inconstant breadcrumb listing depending on role in course - Discussion

by Suzanne Boutot -

I agree. I definitely prefer the full the breadcrumb option. It's been FOUR months, and I still struggle with Moodle 2.0x's stripped breadcrumb mode. It's gotten to the point that I used different browser tabs to be able to jump from one to the other... especially when grading from the Assignment List....

Have you learned of any "tweak"? 

joy...suzanne

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In reply to Suzanne Boutot

Re: Usability: Inconstant breadcrumb listing depending on role in course - Discussion

by Mark Andrews -

Hi Suzanne,

Phew! - I'm not the only one struggling with this smile

As yet we don't have any solution and are just getting on with it. Please vote for the tracker issue and who knows perhaps it will get picked up! Although I'm sure somthing could be done with the theme renderers - but I don't understand them.

Whilst blue sky thinking, a great development to aid navigation would be the ability to have drop-downs coming off the breadcrumb, like on the lonely planet site: Link

Regards

Mark

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In reply to Mark Andrews

Re: Usability: Inconstant breadcrumb listing depending on role in course - Discussion

by Mary Evans -

Hi Mark,

I've just seen this and wondered if, depending on what part of the breadcrumb you need for logged-in/enrolled users, you could add blocks to appear in the student's profile (mydashboard) with courses/categories etc. Then whenever they need to got to some place or other all they would have to do is click on their name in the header or footer, providing login details are in those places, then they could get to any part of the site.

It is frustrating when you ask for changes in Moodle and nothing is done. Had it been theme related I could have fixed it, but it isn't so I can't!

You could always add a comment in the "Moodle AAARRGH! survey for 2012" HERE and tell martin what you think of the Breadcrumb issue! smile

Who knows it might get fixed.

Happy Christmas

Mary

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In reply to Mary Evans

Re: Usability: Inconstant breadcrumb listing depending on role in course - Discussion

by sam marshall -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers

It is possible to change breadcrumbs in a custom theme - although this is an extremely difficult programming task (no I can't help you).

We have a number of customisations so that our breadcrumbs are:

Course shortname > Activity name

and nowt else smile (Except whatever appears after activity names.)

--sam

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In reply to sam marshall

Re: Usability: Inconstant breadcrumb listing depending on role in course - Discussion

by Julia Küfner -

I spend the last two days searching the code for a solution smile So I'm glad to hear that others are facing the same problem.

This is definetly a usability issue!

The general idea of breadcrumbs is to give the user a map (like a sitemap) which shows him where he is exactly in the navigation structure and allows jumping back to any level. Users are used to this and expect this.

The differentiation of courses and mycourses is not understood by most users! They do understand, that they are enroled in a course and that the course appears under "my courses". However as the course did not actually "move" to my courses and still remains in the original structure it doesn't make sense to get a breadcrumbs structure referring to "my courses". 

We have a quite complex category and subcategory system, based on the actual schedule of the students. Therefore it is very important for us to show the same structure in the breadcrumbs.

Another problem is that intermediate levels are sometimes left out. I haven't found out why this happens sometimes. Anyway it is another issue that makes navigation difficult as you can not just jump back one level, as the level is not shown. Our users usually navigate back to the main page and start all over again.

We are satisfied with the view the admin gets, who is never enroled and therefore sees the full path.

We therefore hope that the developers will inculde an option that allows you to turn off the "my courses" breadcrumbs.

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In reply to Julia Küfner

Re: Usability: Inconstant breadcrumb listing depending on role in course - Discussion

by Larry Elchuck -
I tend to partially disagree. For those of us kicking around Moodle for years and in admin roles ( including teachers), the true breadcrumb trail (courses) does make sense. But for students, their world is "my course" and this is what should be reflected for them ... Unless of course you wish to do "home ... Courses ... My courses ... Course x" As an aside, in Moodle 2.2, should not the "my courses" be linked where it occurs in the breadcrumb trail? Not sure if it should link or not ... But since everything else does in the breadcrumb trail, it makes sense that it should.
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In reply to Larry Elchuck

Re: Usability: Inconstant breadcrumb listing depending on role in course - Discussion

by Mark Andrews -

For our students the 'true breadcrumb' - I like that term! would be the best. As mentioned in my opening post our site is quite open so in addition to being enrolled on courses they are also able to view most of the other courses (all but staff areas) without being enrolled on them.

So the 'View courses without participation' permission has been great for this but the inconsistency in the breadcrumb depending on course/category role has not.

Julia - I agree that the breadcrumbs should act like a condensed site map for the user. Do you think the lonely planet example above would be a good step?

Mary -  Many thanks for your posts I have mentioned it in the survey.

Sam - Thanks also for your post; were the customisations that you mention hacks to core code or additional theme specific stuff? and was this on your new moodle 2 install? (i'm really liking your new theme!) at least with your solution the breadcrumb would be consistent.

So what would the best way be to fix this issue? a change to core, a custom renderer for a theme or an additional theme hack? 

Kind regards

Mark

 

 

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In reply to Mark Andrews

Re: Usability: Inconstant breadcrumb listing depending on role in course - Discussion

by sam marshall -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers

Our breadcrumb customisations are for our Moodle 2.1 system. They're entirely within our theme and don't require any core changes.

The code to do this is rather difficult (there's a renderer you have to override and then mess with some complicated data structures) and also hacky. For instance, we wanted to get rid of the section [week/topic] breadcrumb, but couldn't find a way to actually identify this, so we made it get rid of any breadcrumb which is directly after a course link, which doesn't itself have a url link, and which isn't at the end of the breadcrumb trail. Nice simple logic there. smile

--sam

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In reply to sam marshall

Re: Usability: Inconstant breadcrumb listing depending on role in course - Discussion

by Joseph Rézeau -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

sam "[...] Nice simple logic there."

Love it.big grin

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In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Usability: Inconstant breadcrumb listing depending on role in course - Discussion

by Julia Küfner -

@Larry, sure I agree! I do not propose a permanent change of breadcrumbs to the admin version.  When you have a simple navigational structure and students are used to the my courses structure it can make sense. Therefore it should be available as a configuration option not as a permanent change. In my case, our users are enrolled in dozens of courses in a complex structure they don't make lots of use of "my courses" and are annoyed by the shortened version.

@ Mark, the lonely planet breadcrumbs look great, especially for complex structures. However I think it would be quite complex to implement this for moodle. I mean, nothing that can be quickly done. (As I said for now I would already be happy with an admin like version smile )

@ Sam, I know you will hate me for this wink I don't expect to get full detailed description of your code changes but it would be great if you could give us a few hints on what you changed. So I get an idea where to start. Would be great!

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In reply to Mark Andrews

Re: Usability: Inconstant breadcrumb listing depending on role in course - Discussion

by John Fitchett -

Hi, I need help -

I want learners to only see the first name of other learners, so I went to 'Site Policies' and set 'Full name format' to 'First name'. By definition, this should mean that: "This defines how names are shown when they are displayed in full." (i.e. only the first name should display.

This on the whole works, EXCEPT in the breadcrumbs.

Learners can see the full name in breadcrumbs, e.g. on 'view.php'

  • Home > My courses > Chatroom > Participants > Mary Smith > View Profile

How can I fix this?

Please help! Thank you so much in advance!

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In reply to John Fitchett

Re: Usability: Inconstant breadcrumb listing depending on role in course - Discussion

by Ray Lawrence -

Just a quick thought. Did you try this using a test student account rather than you admin or teacher account?

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In reply to Ray Lawrence

Re: Usability: Inconstant breadcrumb listing depending on role in course - Discussion

by John Fitchett -

Hi Ray

The breadcrumb issue applies to student accounts. If it was only for admins, I wouldn't mind.

Thanks for the suggestion though! smile

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In reply to John Fitchett

Re: Usability: Inconstant breadcrumb listing depending on role in course - Discussion

by Ray Lawrence -

OK, worth checking. One for the tracker?

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In reply to Ray Lawrence

Re: Usability: Inconstant breadcrumb listing depending on role in course - Discussion

by John Fitchett -

I have added a tracker here:

http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-31463

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In reply to John Fitchett

Re: Usability: Inconstant breadcrumb listing depending on role in course - Discussion

by Julia Küfner -

I just added a trackker issue for an improvement in breadcrumbs http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-34487

I propose to add a setting for breadcrumbs, to allow each admin to decide if students should get breadcrumbs with "My courses" as root (e.g. My Courses > Example Course) or the full path (e.g. 1. Semester > 1. Category > Chapter 1 > Example Course)

Average of ratings: -