Hi Theme Designers,
http://jqueryui.com/themeroller/
The above link goes to the jQuery ThemeRoller development page. Perhaps you're already familiar with it? It's a intriguing approach to developing interface themes. I thought that it might be an useful model to point out, though I know moodle is committed to using YUI rather than jQuery.
A quick demonstration of the themes, which can be customized and downloaded through the browser, is seen when you find and click the word "gallery" in the left most column. It provides some pretty impressive tools for theming those jquery interface elements at the click of a button.
I know it's only cosmetic colour changes, but when paired with the beautiful built-in design-intelligence of the jquery interface elements, it is all pretty impressive.
I'm interested in hearing your thoughts about it.
regards,
Ian
checkout : http://thematoweb.com/moodle/
Thanks for the link Nadav. I have not seen this site before and it is interesting to see something a little similar for Moodle. That site seems to have a lot of broken spots however.
It is not so much the idea of being able to create a theme on the fly through a web-browser that I find so appealing, although it is pretty nice and convenient. There is also that Chameleon theme that allows that amazing ability to change components with a right click.
--
The interesting thing for me is the way these jQuery (a javascript library) elements bring a very nice base level of sophistication (visual design, functionality, and usability) to the elements of a page. It is fairly easy to apply them and then also customize them.
The use of gradients, transparency, rounded edges, and tasteful spacing and proportions is coupled with the wonderful immediate responsiveness and functionality of the javascript elements.
I know there are a lot of skilled people working on making Moodle 2.0 look and feel better than the earlier generations of Moodle. I'm still really trying to wrap my head around it all and am not a programmer...so I can't really offer a lot of help at that level. So, I'm trying to help with these ideas. (Yes, I know, they are so useful.)
--
Ok, the long-winded point I am making is about this idea of a base level of sophistication. There is a vein of thought in coding moodle that it's best to stay away completely from visual design, i.e. make it as flexible as possible to theme but stay away from actually putting any design into it.
I would like to suggest that there needs to be what I call a basic design intelligence (sophistication) in the program, which is then easily changeable. Theming the whole application of moodle from the ground-up is a daunting, multifaceted, and complex task and most users are not going to be capable of it. The result is that most users of Moodle are going to be left with the "undesigned" base look which is boxy, bland, and has been a major complaint against moodle.
Does this make sense?
--
Perhaps this is addressed through the parent child relationship you're designing. The grandfather design would be "base" code, and the parent or "basic" theme would be the on one with design intellegence built-in, then the child or "skin" theme would be the one customized for the institution.
Both the base and basic theme (grandparent and parent) should be coming from Moodle HQ because you're the ones that know the application from the inside out. You know the complexities and conflicts and consequences...all things that take a tremendous time for users and potential theme designers to discover.
There really needs to be a nice "basic" or parent theme coming with Moodle 2.0 for it really to take a leap forward with visual design. Does the YUI have the ability to do this? Yes, probably, though not as transparently as jQuery does for me at this time.
As a theme designer it feels almost irresponsible for me to drill deeply into the Moodle interface and affect something because I know that this choice now may cause much difficulty later in an upgrade (from expereince.) As a result I am gun shy of doing any substantive theming of Moodle.
Thanks for reading my thoughts.
It is not so much the idea of being able to create a theme on the fly through a web-browser that I find so appealing, although it is pretty nice and convenient. There is also that Chameleon theme that allows that amazing ability to change components with a right click.
--
The interesting thing for me is the way these jQuery (a javascript library) elements bring a very nice base level of sophistication (visual design, functionality, and usability) to the elements of a page. It is fairly easy to apply them and then also customize them.
The use of gradients, transparency, rounded edges, and tasteful spacing and proportions is coupled with the wonderful immediate responsiveness and functionality of the javascript elements.
I know there are a lot of skilled people working on making Moodle 2.0 look and feel better than the earlier generations of Moodle. I'm still really trying to wrap my head around it all and am not a programmer...so I can't really offer a lot of help at that level. So, I'm trying to help with these ideas. (Yes, I know, they are so useful.)
--
Ok, the long-winded point I am making is about this idea of a base level of sophistication. There is a vein of thought in coding moodle that it's best to stay away completely from visual design, i.e. make it as flexible as possible to theme but stay away from actually putting any design into it.
I would like to suggest that there needs to be what I call a basic design intelligence (sophistication) in the program, which is then easily changeable. Theming the whole application of moodle from the ground-up is a daunting, multifaceted, and complex task and most users are not going to be capable of it. The result is that most users of Moodle are going to be left with the "undesigned" base look which is boxy, bland, and has been a major complaint against moodle.
Does this make sense?
--
Perhaps this is addressed through the parent child relationship you're designing. The grandfather design would be "base" code, and the parent or "basic" theme would be the on one with design intellegence built-in, then the child or "skin" theme would be the one customized for the institution.
Both the base and basic theme (grandparent and parent) should be coming from Moodle HQ because you're the ones that know the application from the inside out. You know the complexities and conflicts and consequences...all things that take a tremendous time for users and potential theme designers to discover.
There really needs to be a nice "basic" or parent theme coming with Moodle 2.0 for it really to take a leap forward with visual design. Does the YUI have the ability to do this? Yes, probably, though not as transparently as jQuery does for me at this time.
As a theme designer it feels almost irresponsible for me to drill deeply into the Moodle interface and affect something because I know that this choice now may cause much difficulty later in an upgrade (from expereince.) As a result I am gun shy of doing any substantive theming of Moodle.
Thanks for reading my thoughts.
Hi Ian,
check http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=135473
The main problem in using themeroller classes with moodle 1.9.X is that those classes do not exist in any core files of moodle and you need to add themeroller classes with jQuery.
In moodle 2.0 it is possible to use layout files, settings.php and so on but again folder structure of themeroller themes is not similar as folder structure of moodle 2.0 themes - use of javascripts, images and css is limited to certain folders unless layout files use some tricks (with settings.php?)...
Themeroller is a cool tool - and I am sure that we will be able to use it or a modified "MoodleThemeRoller" in the near future.
Thank Mauno!
I was not actually advocating using jQuery (though I still hope to continue using it by adding script and link tags into content areas as I have been doing in Moodle 1.9.2 when needed). I have seen discussions about that elsewhere and I know that Moodle is committed to YUI.
What I am really hoping is that Moodle can up its game with the basic interface that it provides on download...that jQuery site is only an example of what is possible.
I would honestly not want to customize moodle at the level of some of those CSS classes for fear of not being able to support upgrades. If moodle had a more sophisticated base (or basic theme)...it shouldn't be that necessary!
Ian
I was not actually advocating using jQuery (though I still hope to continue using it by adding script and link tags into content areas as I have been doing in Moodle 1.9.2 when needed). I have seen discussions about that elsewhere and I know that Moodle is committed to YUI.
What I am really hoping is that Moodle can up its game with the basic interface that it provides on download...that jQuery site is only an example of what is possible.
I would honestly not want to customize moodle at the level of some of those CSS classes for fear of not being able to support upgrades. If moodle had a more sophisticated base (or basic theme)...it shouldn't be that necessary!
Ian