Moodle vs. Angel

Moodle vs. Angel

by Thorwald Westmaas -
Number of replies: 16

We've been looking at Angel (Cyberlearninglabs.com) until we came accross Moodle. We plan to use the LMS mostly for foreign language training but also plan to move into other types of training.

Obviously, the pricing of Moodle is a strong point but before we jump, we wonder how the two compare.

A few important differences we noticed (according to Edutools) were:

Moodle has:

1) no content sharing
2) no video services
3) no white board

Are these things to be found soon in future versions? 

Content sharing would be very important for us but, maybe there is a work around.  Video services could probably be implemented using a 3-rd party product (like webdemo) but, that would probably mean you couldn't integrate (schedule) it in a learner's course

White board again would be really helpful to have..

Any comments and suggestions are welcome.

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In reply to Thorwald Westmaas

Re: Moodle vs. Angel

by Michael Penney -
Hi Thorwald. Moodle can stream video just fine, but it doesn't include its own streaming server.

You can use Real, Quicktime, Windows, etc., rtsp servers  and schedule the appearence of these using our Course Program block. What you do is embed the reference file which points to the stream in a resource, then schedule the resource it to appear on the time and date you set in the Course Program block. For http streamed videos, you just upload them and link to them, and Moodle handles the rest.

As far as the whiteboard, Moodle has none. Have you demoed Angel's on your average student's machine? I ask because if it's anything like Blackboard's virtual whiteboard, it may be more trouble than it is worth (BB's is java based and so finicky and crashprone that in our 450 BB courses, no one is using it). There were some folks working on some sort of whiteboard for Moodle last I heard. I would recommend a Flash basis for this if you decide to spend your Angel license money having Moodle.com write one for yousmile.

Content sharing is a major problem, and Teemu's directory sharing hack is the only fix for that I know of for know. This is supposed to be worked in to 1.5 standard, so if you are planning on going live this summer (or can handle a mid spring upgrade), it shouldn't be a problem.
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In reply to Michael Penney

Re: Moodle vs. Angel

by Thorwald Westmaas -

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the fast reply. We do have a copy of Linktivity's WebDemo conference server so that should work.

No, I haven't tried whiteboard yet but I see where you going.  This issue could be circumvented by having that content available in the repository database and just tell the student to open on his/her own machine it for reference...    And yes, we can do a lot of custom work with the Angel licensing fees smile

I look forward to the content sharing and yes, we have a few more months.

Thanks again.  These forums alone are a reason to go Moodle!

Thorwald

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In reply to Thorwald Westmaas

Moodle vs. Angel

by Ken Spell -
I'm no expert, but I don't see why it can't support video. The following is a URL to a sample that has two GIFs, an animation and a video sequence. When you make a post, go to the Formatting pull-down menu (below, left) and select HTML format. Key in the appropriate code, and wah lah. The following is a URL that contains a sample of both an animated GIF and a video segment:

http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=8497

Give it a moment to download, and you'll see the GIF animation in the first post, and the video seqenced GIF in the second post below.

As for the content sharing, well this is a little beyond me. The data seems to state that courseware cannot be transferred; however, it's my understanding that at least one of the CSU campuses is currently developing a program to do just that. Because in Moodle one is free to add and invent, CSU can do this. Likewise, anyone else is free to compose a program for content sharing. I would appreciate knowing more about content sharing, possibly a brief synopsis, if you are willing. This info will certainly be of value to me when I begin interviewing SMEs for training and content appraisals.

Below this paragraph are a few URLs to a database that generates comparisons between LMSs (or CMSs) that you select to be compared. I've found that the information within the comparisons are reasonably accurate, but certainly not entirely. GoTo the first URL to select "compare" and that will automatically take you to the second URL where you select the CMSs or LMSs that you wish compared. The 3rd URL is my selection, which can give you an idea of how usable the info is.

http://www.edutools.info/course/compare/

http://www.edutools.info/course/compare/byfeatures/index.jsp

http://www.edutools.info/course/compare/compare.jsp?product=234,144

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In reply to Ken Spell

Re: Moodle vs. Angel

by Marcus Green -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
I second the advice to give a good testing of any whiteboard service offered. I really like the idea of using the whiteboard on the system where I work but there always appear to be some reason why it does not, usually because our network people have done something to disable it sad
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In reply to Thorwald Westmaas

Re: Moodle vs. Angel

by Matt (M) -
In order to evaluate the "Content Sharing" requirements, I suspect some definitions are in order.  The words "content sharing" probably conjure up a lot of different thoughts in a different minds.

A few specific and detailed user/admin scenarios are what I seek.  Maybe some web references to such things?  Marketing blurbs usually don't help much in this way.

imho, this sort of work is how one starts requirements for a new project like a "content sharing" module for Moodle.  I suspect that once you get down to the nitty gritty, different people will want different "content sharing" things.

-Matt
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In reply to Matt (M)

Re: Moodle vs. Angel

by Michael Penney -
Great idea, Matt, its always best to begin these things with a public discussion (like the way the new quiz features were handled) IMO.

We're also looking a project like this, that would basically build something like a book or lesson, that would be sharable among courses, with a single course having the master document and edit privs. while the sharing courses can add commentary.

Teemu's directory sharing code might make a good basis for this, and last I heard Martin was going to try to get that into 1.5?
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In reply to Matt (M)

Re: Moodle vs. Angel - content sharing

by Thorwald Westmaas -

Hi Matt,

Ok.  To be more precise, I would like to be able to do the following things:

have a learning object (lesson, quiz, etc.) and be able to reuse that object in another course with just a few steps. 

On the Angel site is says:

  • an unlimited number of centrally maintained repositories of all types of content can be shared and reused.
  • search and browse modes allow you to find the content you need including IMS format content and incorporate it in the flow of your course.
  • SCORM compliance ensures interoperability and reusability of web-based learning content.
  • automatically generated permissions based on user rights are flexible so content can be accessed by a given department regardless of the campus or school the library is associated with.
  • resource sharing capabilities simplify the logistics of managing content for large enrollment and multiple section courses.

For full info, see http://www.cyberlearninglabs.com/Products/sharedResourceLibraries.asp

Is that something that's possible in Moodle (in the future)?

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In reply to Thorwald Westmaas

Re: Moodle vs. Angel - content sharing

by Matt (M) -
Ok, we are rocking and rolling now.

How do we move this discussion into a "content sharing" module development specification-and-discussion...if Moodle specifically intends to develop this type of functionality (any comments from Martin/Eloy?)?  Is this discussion already underway somewhere?

For what it's worth, I invite all to add/comment on Thorwald's list above.  I would like comments from anyone involved, not just Thorwald.

-Matt
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In reply to Thorwald Westmaas

Re: Moodle vs. Angel - content sharing

by Enrique Castro -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers
Hi Thorwald,
    This is a completely different meaning for "content sharing" from what I and others had understood, as Michael Penney in his answer. Teemu's extension will allow several students to share files in a common folder. Quite a different thing.

For you use of  "content sharing" , you wil be happy to hear:

a) Moodle DO have SCORM support. And I bet as good as it can be in any other LMS. My (not personal) experience is that SCORM is a badly implemented standard. Many packages fail to run properly here and there by small inconsistencies from one implementation to other.

b) Moodle DO have its own methods to store and reuse whole courses and course components by mean of the backup and restore functions.

- Enrique Castro -
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In reply to Enrique Castro

Re: Moodle vs. Angel - content sharing

by Matt (M) -
Ok, seems like we may not be on the same page as much as originally thought. I have found that this sort of phenomena is not unusual in these types of discussions.

For what it's worth, I have little if any idea what "content sharing" would or *should* mean in these contexts...I'm just trying to help foster a good requirements discussion (and not be a subject-matter expert).

I'd say if anyone wants to continue "content sharing" discussions and development further, they might need to iron out more of the user targets (eg, user goals--as in Alan-Cooper's Inmates-are-Running-the-Asylum goals) and associated requirements.

I'll step out of this discussion for now. Good luck!
-Matt
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In reply to Thorwald Westmaas

Re: Moodle vs. Angel - content sharing

by Michael Penney -
Do you have alot of IMS and SCORM content to share?

Most folks on our campus are concerned about sharing images, photos, text, and audio files (for which Teemu's system works great).

SCORM content seems to tend to be a bit too rigidly structured for higher ed. faculty, they seem to prefer to compose their courses from smaller bits (those old standards, jpeg, mp3, mov, swf and pdfsmile. However, Moodle's SCORM player should work fine for playing it, and you could share it off of simpler server than it seems Angel is using.

We are interested in creating ways to easily share pieces of lessons, and books, and may be working on that in the near future.

I know the idea of higher ed faculty happily using, building and sharing SCORM objects gets some CIOs excited, but they may want to query their faculty on whether it is a feature any of them would want to use.

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In reply to Michael Penney

Re: Moodle vs. Angel - content sharing

by Richard Treves -
OK, I think I'm on topic here with this but someone kick me if I've gone off on a tangent.

I have produced a set of materials that can be used on any website, just upload the files and the content/quizzes/multimedia files are usable.  This was done so that content could go on any VLE.  Importing into moodle is a breeze, just zip up, upload, unzip and off you go - you can include navigation pages if you want.

Importing into Angel is less easy, however, the (open source) tool I found is reload .  If you create content in this you can automatically get it to add good navigation, lets you add metadata in an IMS format and also allows you to package content into a (content) IMS format which can then be uploaded to BB and Angel. 

If you want to author material in the VLE and export to other courses this isn't the solution for you but if you are happy authoring using reload (and adding navigation and metadata features make it v useful IMHO) then you could create content that could be easily moved around courses and uploaded to other VLEs if need be.

Richard
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In reply to Richard Treves

Learning Moodle

by Ken Spell -
Hello Richard;

If u have a moment, can you tell me a bit about your experience with learning Moodle as an instructor?

Ken
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In reply to Thorwald Westmaas

Re: Moodle vs. Angel

by Paul Norrod -
Thorwald, I have been using Angel to teach with since August. It is a long story up to this point, so I will try to shorten it. Our college used to use WebCT several years ago. Not fancy, no frills, but it worked. Last year in an attempt to save money, they dropped WebCT in favor of some horrid thing called Jenzabar. To maintain my sanity and be able to teach online, I discovered Moodle and ran my own install of 1.2 and then 1.3 on my own Web host.

I must say in total honesty that my experience with Moodle was just great. As was mentioned elsewhere in this topic, these forums themselves are worth their weight in gold. To be able to ask any type of question and to get a response (often from Martin himself) was wonderful.

After faculty pressure from suffering with Jenzabar, the college decided to go with Angel this school year (I suggested Moodle, but was politely turned down). As part of the "deal" faculty had to sign a contract to only use Angel (apparently other teachers were using outside web services as well). So, I have been teaching with Angel now for about two months, and I must say that I am underwhelmed. Everyday I wish I could go back to Moodle. Yes, Angel works fine and it has some nice features and it does not have any glaring faults, BUT it lacks some things that you don't notice that much until they are gone:

  1. People who really understand what an LMS needs to have and how it needs to behave FOR THOSE WHO TEACH WITH IT AND FOR THOSE WHO LEARN FROM IT. Martin and the others who help develop Moodle seem to be able to put their finger on those things that really make life easier for the teacher and can help students learn. Examples: The News, grouped links for related content type (Forums, Quizes, Resources, etc) so that what is in the Week-by-Week can be accessed from a central place, photos for the forums, not having content buried in folders.

    Moodle, is, well ...... just plain nice!

    I have three students who had online courses with me last year who now have online courses with me this year. All three have independently contacted me and asked why I wasn't using Moodle anymore and asked if I could use it again because they did not like Angel.

  2. A community of ACCESSIBLE people who really, truly, want to make the product as good as it possibly can be. Where else can one talk to the actual developers of the product? Where else is there a community of people eager to answer any question you may have. I have run into the brick wall of lack of information with Angel - there is a FAQ at Cyberlearninglabs and user manuals, but they are for the most elementary questions and are relatively useless. There may be more info available, but as a teacher, I do not have access to any of it.

    When you are trying to do certain things with the LMS, one needs to UNDERSTAND how things work - not just be told to click this and then do that. Example - I still do not fully understand the gradebook in Angel. The manual is useless and there are no forums at cyberlearninglabs. I did find an independent forum at www.angelusers.org, but it is sparsely populated and does not have much information. With the Moodle gradebook, if I had a question all I had to do was ask in the forum. Being technically inclined, I could also look at the code!

  3. The ability to customize the code for your particular purpose. If Moodle is missing things or does not work as you want in certain areas, you can wait for a future version to include what you want OR modify the code yourself (if you have the skills) OR see if someone offers a mod to do what you want OR contract with Moodle.com or one of the Partners to write it for you. In other words, you have choices and are not locked into using version X.XX - take it or leave it.

I could go on, but I think you get the idea. I never had a chance to discuss this before as there was no one to discuss it with - until this topic was started! I was talking to a colleague just the other day and I said to him "you know, Angel is okay, but I must say that Moodle is a much nicer LMS and to top it off, Moodle is FREE!" If you have not already signed on with Angel, I would seriously think about taking some of the money you would have spent with Angel and investing it in a Moodle setup at Moodle.com or one of the Partners and possibly some custom programming.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Paul Norrod
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In reply to Paul Norrod

Re: Moodle vs. Angel

by Thorwald Westmaas -

Hi Paul,

Thank you so much for your comprehensive feedback on using Angel. It didn't take us long - after discovering these forums and its dedicated users - to ditch Angel and go Moodle.  Your message only confirms we did the right thing.  But boy, were we close !!  We had already bought the hardware !

We just signed up for a hosting contract with Bryan at remote-learner.net and plan to start moodling very soon.   And with the money we save on licensing fees we can develop a custom registration & payment system that would probably be more expensive to develop with Angel too because where do you go for help?

God, was I happy to run into you guys !! 

Cheers to all and Martin and all for developing and supporting such a great product.

Saludos,

Thorwald

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In reply to Thorwald Westmaas

Decision support-tool for the one-minute-manager (CMS)

by Ger Tielemans -
  1. Do WE (as institute) have content in a sharable format, so we could exchange?
    • IF NO GOTO 2
    • If YES, congratulations, you are the first one!!
  2. Do WE (as institute) have money to buy sharable content?  
    • IF NO GOTO 3
    • If YES, congratulations, again you are the first one, but you have a small problem: where to buy usable content that maps on your institute's needs without loosing your insitute's face?
  3. So, WE (=our teachers & professors) have to construct/arrange their own materials: become the "local manager of the month", choose Moodle.
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