The Japanese share index has falled from 13000 to 8200 in the space of a few weeks and by about 80 points today. We did not loose all *that* much.
What should one do in a depression? Jokes and serious advice gratefully recieved.
Buy gold? Buy index shares? Remove ones money from the bank unless it goes bust? Buy land to grew vegetables on?
Tim
Invest in learning. Seriously, it's a good advice to give people in general and it certainly fits in our case.
In reply to Alexandre Enkerli
Re: What should one do in a great depression?
by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
> Invest in learning.
That's great advise! If I may add learning what, I would say maths and physics. Why?
Look at what happened. The worker produced $ 100 of work. The bank managers doubled it, quadrapled, multiplied by 10. So the worker was still happy even if the manager pockets 80%, he is still left with $ 200, minus administrative costs 'fcourse.
And then came the truth, the air was released and it shrunk to $ 100. That was the physics part. The math part is more tricky. Now out of the $ 100 left $ 80 is gone, the worker is left with mere $ 20! I leave the proof as an exercise to the reader.
That's great advise! If I may add learning what, I would say maths and physics. Why?
Look at what happened. The worker produced $ 100 of work. The bank managers doubled it, quadrapled, multiplied by 10. So the worker was still happy even if the manager pockets 80%, he is still left with $ 200, minus administrative costs 'fcourse.
And then came the truth, the air was released and it shrunk to $ 100. That was the physics part. The math part is more tricky. Now out of the $ 100 left $ 80 is gone, the worker is left with mere $ 20! I leave the proof as an exercise to the reader.
In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera
This forum post has been removed
The content of this forum post has been removed and can no longer be accessed.
In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera
Re: What should one do in a great depression?
by Alexandre Enkerli -
Investing in learning, generally. Y'know, "learning about learning" and all that. 
I sincerely think it's a wise investment of effort, time, and money. Helps one to be flexible, which is exactly the kind of skill this type of change requires, IMHO.
During certain periods, people feel that it's perfectly reasonable to focus on a very limited career path which is likely to provide financial stability for a while. In some parts of the world, people choose "safe" majors and have often left the broader educational goals as an "extra." These people may be passionate about topics which have nothing to do with their jobs, they may have had important "extracurricular" activities during university/college. But it's not always clear that these other passions can lead them to the sense of innovation, the creative thinking required in difficult situations.
Here in Quebec, my generation (born in the early 1970s) was told to not expect any type of flexibility. We were choosing careers, but were often reminded that things may change rapidly around us. Many of us lack professional stability, we've had to work in different fields during our lifetimes. And we went through some rather difficult recessions. Not that the financial difficulties we lived through were as extreme as what journalists love talking about. But, for a period of time, the morale was at such a low for the society as a whole that you could feel it in everybody's interactions. The unemployment rate hovered at 20% which is enough to be an issue but not enough to cause a radical social change (especially when welfare is at least decent). Money was tight overall, spending was rather low. And this was after a period of intense borrowing and spending that Baby Boomers still perceive as a "Golden Age."
Nowadays, the financial crisis may affect most people in post-industrial societies, especially in North America and Europe. The situation may be as "dramatic" as people imagine. But those resilient ones among us will "pull their needles out of the stack."
Especially if they used that time to learn.
I sincerely think it's a wise investment of effort, time, and money. Helps one to be flexible, which is exactly the kind of skill this type of change requires, IMHO.
During certain periods, people feel that it's perfectly reasonable to focus on a very limited career path which is likely to provide financial stability for a while. In some parts of the world, people choose "safe" majors and have often left the broader educational goals as an "extra." These people may be passionate about topics which have nothing to do with their jobs, they may have had important "extracurricular" activities during university/college. But it's not always clear that these other passions can lead them to the sense of innovation, the creative thinking required in difficult situations.
Here in Quebec, my generation (born in the early 1970s) was told to not expect any type of flexibility. We were choosing careers, but were often reminded that things may change rapidly around us. Many of us lack professional stability, we've had to work in different fields during our lifetimes. And we went through some rather difficult recessions. Not that the financial difficulties we lived through were as extreme as what journalists love talking about. But, for a period of time, the morale was at such a low for the society as a whole that you could feel it in everybody's interactions. The unemployment rate hovered at 20% which is enough to be an issue but not enough to cause a radical social change (especially when welfare is at least decent). Money was tight overall, spending was rather low. And this was after a period of intense borrowing and spending that Baby Boomers still perceive as a "Golden Age."
Nowadays, the financial crisis may affect most people in post-industrial societies, especially in North America and Europe. The situation may be as "dramatic" as people imagine. But those resilient ones among us will "pull their needles out of the stack."
Especially if they used that time to learn.
Invest in your children. They are our future and yours. Make sure they are well grounded in math and science. Above all, ensure that they become able readers, because without that, their mastery of math and science will be sub-par. When they are babies, read to them. When they are older, read with them. Become a Reading Buddy!
Or alternatively, sell Reading Buddy! welcome Michael. Looking forward to you joining the Moodle community.
Hi Tim,
What was the advise I saw last night for the common man on the telly?
Invest in cheap basic food related things. They showed Campbell Soup cans on the shelf
Then there was the invest in wine, stamps and rare coins group, assuring us that these things held their value in the long haul. The program flashed to "the money under the mattress" and "gold" people arguing which was more speculative. The moderator said, as the screen panned to a casino table, understand anything you do or not do is ultimately a gamble with risk. Thanks for that very educational piece.
I am clueless myself. Back in May we decided the world was crazy and should be prepared that our kids might not be able to help us in our old age. We don't have much of a retirement saved up. This summer we have bought and done things to first lower our living operating expenses, and secondly maybe improve the value of our house. That was then.
Time value of money...deflation...inflation, what is in the future? Should we be conserving cash? This is uncharted ground for everybody.
All I know is when I start pointing a finger, at least 3 are pointed back at myself. What a mess.
Best to you and your family, Chris
What was the advise I saw last night for the common man on the telly?
Invest in cheap basic food related things. They showed Campbell Soup cans on the shelf
Then there was the invest in wine, stamps and rare coins group, assuring us that these things held their value in the long haul. The program flashed to "the money under the mattress" and "gold" people arguing which was more speculative. The moderator said, as the screen panned to a casino table, understand anything you do or not do is ultimately a gamble with risk. Thanks for that very educational piece.I am clueless myself. Back in May we decided the world was crazy and should be prepared that our kids might not be able to help us in our old age. We don't have much of a retirement saved up. This summer we have bought and done things to first lower our living operating expenses, and secondly maybe improve the value of our house. That was then.
Time value of money...deflation...inflation, what is in the future? Should we be conserving cash? This is uncharted ground for everybody.
All I know is when I start pointing a finger, at least 3 are pointed back at myself. What a mess.
Best to you and your family, Chris
Hi Chris
Thank you for the advice. Seems very reasonable to me and my wife and I were just thinking of moving into basic things (we were more thinking of health related) But then I read an article on the motley fool saying that Americans were cutting back on even prescription medicine and certainly food and that all the food brands were down big time.
My family and I are okay.
But I do feel like I should be doing something, just that I don't know what it is.
Tim
Thank you for the advice. Seems very reasonable to me and my wife and I were just thinking of moving into basic things (we were more thinking of health related) But then I read an article on the motley fool saying that Americans were cutting back on even prescription medicine and certainly food and that all the food brands were down big time.
My family and I are okay.
But I do feel like I should be doing something, just that I don't know what it is.
Tim
Hi Tim,
Great post. I just love the seek out an old person :"it is what it is ...until we make it that way".
When I was in Ikot Ekpene Nigeria (cira 1965, not even 21 yet), I like to trade fables and stories after work. One night I was in the compound of very old clan head. He told me the story why there were still old people in the world. It is still a favorite of mine.
Essentially there was a village which thought their strength was that they had no old people to hold them back. They banished the old. One man hid is father and talked to him every day. As it happened there was a series of plagues and famines. The conclusion of the story is that the father knew the special thing which saved the village. And from that time on, everyone knew that old people were good to have around for their knowledge of the past.
It is what it is, don't be distracted by others, do what you can. What good advice. Let everybody else throw the soup can into the shrub.
Best Chris
Great post. I just love the seek out an old person :"it is what it is ...until we make it that way".
When I was in Ikot Ekpene Nigeria (cira 1965, not even 21 yet), I like to trade fables and stories after work. One night I was in the compound of very old clan head. He told me the story why there were still old people in the world. It is still a favorite of mine.
Essentially there was a village which thought their strength was that they had no old people to hold them back. They banished the old. One man hid is father and talked to him every day. As it happened there was a series of plagues and famines. The conclusion of the story is that the father knew the special thing which saved the village. And from that time on, everyone knew that old people were good to have around for their knowledge of the past.
It is what it is, don't be distracted by others, do what you can. What good advice. Let everybody else throw the soup can into the shrub.
Best Chris
Your question appears to present an intriguing dilemma; while the economic powerhouse that currently resides in the Whitehouse told the world to increase their purchases post 9/11 in order to maintain economic stability, one might argue that such action should be coupled with a selection of goods that might target foreseeable curcumstances.
In that light I recommend that people purchase plastic sheeting, duct tape and cardboard first (you will need some place to live until the home you used to occupy, abandoned, dangerous and fat-infested, can be illegally reoccupied.) I would pass on canned goods unless you have strong kids (they weigh a ton and if they freeze you are outaluck) and start hoarding ramen (takes minimal energy to render edible.) I'd purchase some small traps to take larger rodents, as well as a 9mm handgun and an AK 47 so that you can deal with the neighbor over who trapped the squirrel, not to mention the fact that you caught their kid in your trap..... Don't forget to buy vitamins (the kind with oil gels otherwise you might not see oily vitamins for some time) and sea salt (possible the next form of exchange.....) If you were thinking about new cutlery, you might want to look at outfitting your family with somethng from the nearby army surplus store ( in the U.S look for the sign that says
"K-bar Kutlery" or check to see if they have knives you can affix to your AK47 - makes it easy to keep track of your silver.....)
Most importantly, of course is a positive attitude, something one can't buy.... just keep telling yourself thast this is obviously someone else's fault; I am sure everything else will come naturally.
In that light I recommend that people purchase plastic sheeting, duct tape and cardboard first (you will need some place to live until the home you used to occupy, abandoned, dangerous and fat-infested, can be illegally reoccupied.) I would pass on canned goods unless you have strong kids (they weigh a ton and if they freeze you are outaluck) and start hoarding ramen (takes minimal energy to render edible.) I'd purchase some small traps to take larger rodents, as well as a 9mm handgun and an AK 47 so that you can deal with the neighbor over who trapped the squirrel, not to mention the fact that you caught their kid in your trap..... Don't forget to buy vitamins (the kind with oil gels otherwise you might not see oily vitamins for some time) and sea salt (possible the next form of exchange.....) If you were thinking about new cutlery, you might want to look at outfitting your family with somethng from the nearby army surplus store ( in the U.S look for the sign that says
"K-bar Kutlery" or check to see if they have knives you can affix to your AK47 - makes it easy to keep track of your silver.....)
Most importantly, of course is a positive attitude, something one can't buy.... just keep telling yourself thast this is obviously someone else's fault; I am sure everything else will come naturally.
Gdamn Shrub.
I am kinda hoping that good things will come when Obama comes to power. At least psychologically it will be a change and who knows things may even improve, or perhaps get a lot worse.
I am very lucky that I have neither debts need for finance (touch wood) nor all that much invested in the stock market.
Incidentally, I have (had!?) stock market money invested in a ETF which tracks the Japanese share average. It is meant to be one of the safer investments because it looks at an average of many companies, so after the depression it should come back up. The only problem is that if the investment bank that manages the ETF goes bancrupt then I think that I would loose the whole lot. So on Tuesday (Monday is a bank holiday in Japan) I will try and move from the ETF to a few different companies. Less diversification, but at the moment I am betting on the continued existance of one investment bank.
Moodle will survive. In fact the worse the economic climate the better Moodle and open source will do, I think. Perhaps OpenOffice.org will really take off at last, and everyone will at last switch to linux?
Is now the nime to invest (if not time then money) in open source?
In reply to Timothy Takemoto
Re: What should one do in a great depression?
by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Tomothy
> I am kinda hoping that good things will come when Obama comes to power.
You must be kidding! This is the country which _re_elected this semiliterate George W. Bush! Either the folk is easily decieved or the election system is rigged.
> Moodle will survive. In fact the worse the economic climate the better Moodle and open source will do, ...
Good point! If this a proof of the vulnerability of the coorporte sytem, the long term prospects of the bigger war monopoly against free software look good.
I hope the disaster is limited to _economic_ climate and won't spread to _global_ climate. Otherwise we have to move all our servers to higher altitudes
> I am kinda hoping that good things will come when Obama comes to power.
You must be kidding! This is the country which _re_elected this semiliterate George W. Bush! Either the folk is easily decieved or the election system is rigged.
> Moodle will survive. In fact the worse the economic climate the better Moodle and open source will do, ...
Good point! If this a proof of the vulnerability of the coorporte sytem, the long term prospects of the bigger war monopoly against free software look good.
I hope the disaster is limited to _economic_ climate and won't spread to _global_ climate. Otherwise we have to move all our servers to higher altitudes
Hi Tim,
In 1987 here in the US the stock market experienced a serious crash due to many Savings & Loan Banks going belly up. It was the same dynamic then as now; financial people playing fast and loose with other peoples money. The government stepped in and bailed them out, but put no strong regulations and oversight in place to prevent things from happening again.
When the S&L crisis hit in 1987 I was 40 years old and had already lived as an adult through several fairly serious recessions (during the early 70's I worked in an area in Florida that was experiencing 14.5% unemployment). But, I thought this was different as so many people were making comparisons with the big crash of 1929. I was spooked and probably felt about the same way then as you might feel now.
In an office downstairs of the same building my small training company was in there was a man named Henry who had a graphic arts company. Henry came to work every day and put in about 50-60 hours a week, same as me. He had steel blue eyes, walked like someone in their 30's and had a full head of white hair. Henry was 83 years old.
That day the market crashed back in '87 I thought it would be a good idea to go talk with Henry as he had experience with these things. I wanted to know what it was like for him back in October of 1929, and whether he thought there was really any comparison. I guess I wanted him to say something that would ease my fear. He did not disappoint me!
Henry told me that the most important thing I could do was to keep my wits about myself, and not cave into fear. He said those were tough times and that it was his faith that things would get better that got him through. Henry told me to avoid pessimistic and cynical people as much as possible because they were mostly interested in the misery around them. He said to stay focused on doing what I could actually do each day to make something good happen, even if that was only making someone smile.
Henry mentioned it was important to accept the reality of any situation as it actually was, rather than fabricating fearful things in my mind. He would say, "it is what it is and nothing more until we make it that way," over and over. It took me awhile to grasp that idea! I got no advice from Henry on what to buy or hoard or how I should change my life in any way. In fact, he simply said to go on about things as though nothing had happened and to face each day without comparing it to the previous one.
My suggestion to you is simple. Go around your community and look into the faces of the old who have lived through hardships, but seem to still radiate a sense of well being. Sit and talk with them and see if what they say won't put your mind at ease. Maybe you will meet Henry.
In 1987 here in the US the stock market experienced a serious crash due to many Savings & Loan Banks going belly up. It was the same dynamic then as now; financial people playing fast and loose with other peoples money. The government stepped in and bailed them out, but put no strong regulations and oversight in place to prevent things from happening again.
When the S&L crisis hit in 1987 I was 40 years old and had already lived as an adult through several fairly serious recessions (during the early 70's I worked in an area in Florida that was experiencing 14.5% unemployment). But, I thought this was different as so many people were making comparisons with the big crash of 1929. I was spooked and probably felt about the same way then as you might feel now.
In an office downstairs of the same building my small training company was in there was a man named Henry who had a graphic arts company. Henry came to work every day and put in about 50-60 hours a week, same as me. He had steel blue eyes, walked like someone in their 30's and had a full head of white hair. Henry was 83 years old.
That day the market crashed back in '87 I thought it would be a good idea to go talk with Henry as he had experience with these things. I wanted to know what it was like for him back in October of 1929, and whether he thought there was really any comparison. I guess I wanted him to say something that would ease my fear. He did not disappoint me!
Henry told me that the most important thing I could do was to keep my wits about myself, and not cave into fear. He said those were tough times and that it was his faith that things would get better that got him through. Henry told me to avoid pessimistic and cynical people as much as possible because they were mostly interested in the misery around them. He said to stay focused on doing what I could actually do each day to make something good happen, even if that was only making someone smile.
Henry mentioned it was important to accept the reality of any situation as it actually was, rather than fabricating fearful things in my mind. He would say, "it is what it is and nothing more until we make it that way," over and over. It took me awhile to grasp that idea! I got no advice from Henry on what to buy or hoard or how I should change my life in any way. In fact, he simply said to go on about things as though nothing had happened and to face each day without comparing it to the previous one.
My suggestion to you is simple. Go around your community and look into the faces of the old who have lived through hardships, but seem to still radiate a sense of well being. Sit and talk with them and see if what they say won't put your mind at ease. Maybe you will meet Henry.
What should one do in a great depression? Seroxat (Paxil)'s good, but a devil to kick the habit... 
Try St John's Wort - so herbal and of the moment. I will continue to knit my colourful dishcloths http://www.flickr.com/photos/francesbell/2826331454/in/set-72157603511046619/
make more soup, and search for cheap wine at Tesco's.
Each to her own!
I do prefer the self-therapy attitude to the medicine in this case. A "Self-Help Mood Improvement" might help 
like this one: http://www.psy.plymouth.ac.uk/onlineresearch/mood/
Save energy, of course! Here are some ways to cut your Moodle-using electric bill. 
- switch to grayscale, turn off color in your admin settings
- drag your windows smaller so they do not fill the screen (640 x 480 is more than enough)
- remove animated gifs--no one knows how much energy they consume
- prune excess users. Backup times will decrease.
- put your monitor up on a higher level and stand as you use it--online time will dramatically decrease, burn extra fat in your legs and abdomen.
- never use the back button in your browser, always go forward
- invest in open source "stocks". Send a $100 donation to moodle.org. It's value will never go down. The warm glow of your support will last forever.
My call in to Mudbone has gone unanswered these many weeks, but here is a take from a younger generation......
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=187614&title=survivalist-investment-tips
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=187614&title=survivalist-investment-tips
In reply to Timothy Takemoto
Re: What should one do in a great depression?
by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
You can call it quit: http://bigpicture.typepad.com/comments/2008/10/andrew-lahde-go.html
This is no joke, read carefully the observations of Andrew Lahde.
Found in /. http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/08/10/18/1310249.shtml
This is no joke, read carefully the observations of Andrew Lahde.
Found in /. http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/08/10/18/1310249.shtml
Look for additional ways to bring in extra income. That is the best suggestion that I can give.
Gary
I'm not convinced that all the same elements are in place for us to replicate the last Depression, but we sure seem headed to an economic condition that hasn't been seen since then.
I would say that you should develop multiple, diverse streams of income. A lot of people who seem to be vulnerable are those whose
income is one-dimensional. So, for instance, if you're sole income is tied to the real estate or construction industry, look for ways to supplement that with other transferable skills you have. Market yourself, a product, a service that helps people save money involving your trade. Team up with someone who has computer/blogging skills and provide the knowledge base for setting up a site to sell your product, booklet, etc.
Terry & Steve
I would say that you should develop multiple, diverse streams of income. A lot of people who seem to be vulnerable are those whose
income is one-dimensional. So, for instance, if you're sole income is tied to the real estate or construction industry, look for ways to supplement that with other transferable skills you have. Market yourself, a product, a service that helps people save money involving your trade. Team up with someone who has computer/blogging skills and provide the knowledge base for setting up a site to sell your product, booklet, etc.
Terry & Steve
It is really a sad situation, especially when you realise these bankers are being paid more in bonuses than I will in about fifteen years of hard work.
Gold or other precious metals are probably the way to go, providing that the market hasn't peaked.
Otherwise invest in some land and start growing your own food, that way you will at least see some benefit from your money.
Gold or other precious metals are probably the way to go, providing that the market hasn't peaked.
Otherwise invest in some land and start growing your own food, that way you will at least see some benefit from your money.
It's actually a really good time to move into the online environment with your work. I'm talking about selling either ebooks or ereports that you create, or doing affiliate marketing by setting up a website/blog with links to interesting products. (You make a commission on each product sold.) This is a worldwide business, you can be anywhere in the world now and make good money online.
Although some markets are drying up - retail items like fashion related goods are plummeting, as are many electronics sales - people are always hungry for how to type information (perfect for creating your own ereport or ebook to sell as a digital download.) And within affiliate marketing there are still tons of product niches that are doing well - you can still sell many things because if the economy of one country is crashing, you can sell to the country whose currency is doing better.