Hi,
in Fronter (closed source eLearning) it ist possible to add audio comments just by clicking on a record-button within the browser (flash based) so I wonder if this is possible for moodle too. It would be a great feature. Apparently the colleagues from drupal work on an opensource version of such a feature:
http://drupal.org/project/riffly
Could this be integrated into moodle?
Yours,
David
David:
I agree. This would be very cool. And since the there already seem to be pluggins for Wordpress and Drupal, making them into some sort of pluggin for Moodle might not be too difficult. Avoiding the need to record audio or video with a separate application could make posting written instrucitons or short videos much easier for a teacher, for example, as well as for commenting.
The Riffly people seem to be storing the content on their own servers and us and advertising model, something that may be fine for blogs but might be an issue for educational institutions. I am wonding what is involved with a Flash pluggin for this purpose since video and audio capturing seems to be built into Flash. Because if that is not too difficult, I think it could be a really interesting addition.
You might want to post a suggestion in the tracker as another way to see if this might get followed up, but I might be interested in it as a fun project also.
Thanks for sharing this and bringing it to our attention.
--Gary
I agree. This would be very cool. And since the there already seem to be pluggins for Wordpress and Drupal, making them into some sort of pluggin for Moodle might not be too difficult. Avoiding the need to record audio or video with a separate application could make posting written instrucitons or short videos much easier for a teacher, for example, as well as for commenting.
The Riffly people seem to be storing the content on their own servers and us and advertising model, something that may be fine for blogs but might be an issue for educational institutions. I am wonding what is involved with a Flash pluggin for this purpose since video and audio capturing seems to be built into Flash. Because if that is not too difficult, I think it could be a really interesting addition.
You might want to post a suggestion in the tracker as another way to see if this might get followed up, but I might be interested in it as a fun project also.
Thanks for sharing this and bringing it to our attention.
--Gary
What about the Nanogong project? It works well and seems to solve the problems you describe. The only reason I haven't completely adopted it is because of the changes it makes to the HTML editor. When the editor changes are stable (probably in Moodle 2.0) I will revisit it.
Regards
Dave Berry
Regards
Dave Berry
I am wondering whether you raised this instability to Mathieu regarding the html editor development?
Just for information, I wrote most of an open-source Java applet to do audio recording. However I haven't finished it (in particular it crashes on Mac because of differences in Java Sound implementation there).
It turned out to be a lower priority because I wrote this as a prototype when we were having problems with our Flash-based solution [which requires expensive/complicated server etc. - we are informed you can't do it client-side in Flash]. But then we decided the Flash one was adequate after all so I haven't spent any more time on it. I think we are currently uncertain...
Anyway if we finish that it will be made publicly available in some form and would be compatible with Moodle's licensing (GPL).
We were not necessarily planning to integrate it with the html editor though - in fact our initial plan was just to let users record files and save to their own desktop (ie so they don't have to learn how to use some powerful audio recording program), and my second vaguer plan was to add it as a type for Moodle assignment module. It's this second part that I was thinking about trying to get incorporated in Moodle core. At some undefined future date.
We might also need 'smaller' versions of the applet for other uses on language courses and the like, though...
Anyway I'm not suggesting we have a solution for you, we don't. Just mentioning that I did some work. If there are any advanced Java developers - you'll need to know a bit about Java Sound, and how to sign applets and multithreading/synchronization - who would like to work on our source, let me know and I'll put it somewhere. Especially if you want to fix it on Mac, maybe test on a wide range of machines, ie do our work for us... ;) [I'm not going to bother digging it up yet unless there's an actual java developer wanting to actually work on it, otherwise we'll just release it if and when we actually finish it here.]
If anyone is thinking about working on it but would like a demonstration of the current version of this applet first, please send me an email [not moodle PM] to s dot marshall (that's at open.ac.uk) and I will give you the url. I would give the URL publicly but it turns out I've put something in the onscreen text that might be slightly inappropriate ;)
--sam
PS This applet uses .WAV format (64kb/s ADPCM) because it's easier to encode - unfortunately Java doesn't, on all platforms, come with MP3 encoder or even .ogg encoder, so I wrote ADPCM encoder from scratch. We were anticipating converting to mp3 at server side if needed.
It turned out to be a lower priority because I wrote this as a prototype when we were having problems with our Flash-based solution [which requires expensive/complicated server etc. - we are informed you can't do it client-side in Flash]. But then we decided the Flash one was adequate after all so I haven't spent any more time on it. I think we are currently uncertain...
Anyway if we finish that it will be made publicly available in some form and would be compatible with Moodle's licensing (GPL).
We were not necessarily planning to integrate it with the html editor though - in fact our initial plan was just to let users record files and save to their own desktop (ie so they don't have to learn how to use some powerful audio recording program), and my second vaguer plan was to add it as a type for Moodle assignment module. It's this second part that I was thinking about trying to get incorporated in Moodle core. At some undefined future date.
We might also need 'smaller' versions of the applet for other uses on language courses and the like, though...
Anyway I'm not suggesting we have a solution for you, we don't. Just mentioning that I did some work. If there are any advanced Java developers - you'll need to know a bit about Java Sound, and how to sign applets and multithreading/synchronization - who would like to work on our source, let me know and I'll put it somewhere. Especially if you want to fix it on Mac, maybe test on a wide range of machines, ie do our work for us... ;) [I'm not going to bother digging it up yet unless there's an actual java developer wanting to actually work on it, otherwise we'll just release it if and when we actually finish it here.]
If anyone is thinking about working on it but would like a demonstration of the current version of this applet first, please send me an email [not moodle PM] to s dot marshall (that's at open.ac.uk) and I will give you the url. I would give the URL publicly but it turns out I've put something in the onscreen text that might be slightly inappropriate ;)
--sam
PS This applet uses .WAV format (64kb/s ADPCM) because it's easier to encode - unfortunately Java doesn't, on all platforms, come with MP3 encoder or even .ogg encoder, so I wrote ADPCM encoder from scratch. We were anticipating converting to mp3 at server side if needed.
Hi Sam,
there is already a working applet around. I found the nanogong project and this integrates also with moodle.http://gong.ust.hk/gong510/nanogong.html and it works on my Mac. (If found the moodle integration not very useful, but the applet is great). The nanogang Applet would be very easy to be integrated into moodle.
Perhaps you could ask them to release the nanogong in GPL.
Some features could be added to nanogong:
Yours,
David
there is already a working applet around. I found the nanogong project and this integrates also with moodle.http://gong.ust.hk/gong510/nanogong.html and it works on my Mac. (If found the moodle integration not very useful, but the applet is great). The nanogang Applet would be very easy to be integrated into moodle.
Perhaps you could ask them to release the nanogong in GPL.
Some features could be added to nanogong:
- after file is saved locally, there could be an upload button, which uploads the file automatically on the moodle platform (with possibility to choose another directory than the default)
- audio recording could be added as a block or ressource
- Integrate it in the assignment tool for Feedback
- mp3 conversion on the server side (will be tricky due to lame mp3 encoder is not integrated on every standard server....)
Yours,
David
Yes Nanogong does the same thing technically as the one I wrote (except for not crashing on mac) as far as I know. I didn't look at it to check whether the file format is the same (in fact I hadn't actually tried it before just now - I did read discussion of it), but I bet it is, since that's the best cross-platform option I was able to come up with...
The interface is very different, but that's a trivial issue. I sort of intended to provide several different interfaces for our one anyway as we need it 'large and friendly' for our first application but 'lightweight' in other potential ones.
Since Nanogong is not GPL, since it's relatively easy to write this type of applet, and since we have some specific requirements and were likely to want to customise/configure it*, I decided it would be easier to do our own.
Also, I don't have any influence over the people who wrote nanogong! If you want to ask them to release it in GPL, please do.
--sam
* And since I like reinventing the wheel, of course.
The interface is very different, but that's a trivial issue. I sort of intended to provide several different interfaces for our one anyway as we need it 'large and friendly' for our first application but 'lightweight' in other potential ones.
Since Nanogong is not GPL, since it's relatively easy to write this type of applet, and since we have some specific requirements and were likely to want to customise/configure it*, I decided it would be easier to do our own.
Also, I don't have any influence over the people who wrote nanogong! If you want to ask them to release it in GPL, please do.
--sam
* And since I like reinventing the wheel, of course.
Hi,
OK, I just thought such a tool would be greatly welcome by the teachers using moodle (like me). Is there a system in moodle to know what teachers need most? (Normal teachers don't vote in the tracker)
Sorry, I didn't see, that there is already an ongoing nanogong discussion. Thanks for your information and I hope there will be soon a GPL licensed tool around with that features.
Yours,
David
OK, I just thought such a tool would be greatly welcome by the teachers using moodle (like me). Is there a system in moodle to know what teachers need most? (Normal teachers don't vote in the tracker)
Sorry, I didn't see, that there is already an ongoing nanogong discussion. Thanks for your information and I hope there will be soon a GPL licensed tool around with that features.
Yours,
David
This feature is very much needed on the Mac. Nanogong seems great, but my Moodle host will not install it because of they are concerned about changes they say it makes to core Moodle code.
I haven't had a single language teacher look at Moodle and not express a wish to record straight to Moodle. I've seen a windows-only utility demoed that records straight to mp3 in Moodle. Mp3 is a better choice than wav because of ever increasing file size problems, and the compression results in negligible loss of quality for most purposes.
S/he who completes this task will be a hero to many.
I haven't had a single language teacher look at Moodle and not express a wish to record straight to Moodle. I've seen a windows-only utility demoed that records straight to mp3 in Moodle. Mp3 is a better choice than wav because of ever increasing file size problems, and the compression results in negligible loss of quality for most purposes.
S/he who completes this task will be a hero to many.
MP3 is not a better choice than WAV - well, it is, but not for the reasons you list. I believe Nanogong uses the same file format as a similar utility I wrote; it's IMA ADPCM compressed WAV at 64 kb/s. 64 kb/s is the same rate commonly used for mono MP3 audio, so there is no difference in typical size - the MP3 audio at that rate is slightly higher quality. (Okay, you could maybe drop the MP3 to 48. But people generally don't.)
If size for given quality were the most important concern, then the best commonly-used format would be Ogg Vorbis. Along with a group of other formats, this gives slightly higher quality than mp3 at the same data rate (or lower data rate at the same quality).
If size at all costs is the priority and quality can go by the wayside, then Speex is an excellent telephone-quality codec at very low data rates (way below dialup). I don't like its sound when you increase the data rate. This is available in Java (er, I think - at least, I ported it just for personal use once upon a time, but I think there's a proper port now). But for language teaching, higher quality audio is probably preferable because you are trying to judge the student's pronunciation etc.
Unfortunately reliable, small (suitable to be incorporated within an applet so as to require no other download), cross-platform (pure Java), open-source Java mp3 encoding utilities aren't available as far as I know, which is probably why Nanogong doesn't use mp3, and certainly why I don't. I don't think there's an Ogg Vorbis encoder, either - but that format would have its own disadvantages because on many operating systems it does not play without installing optional software.
I will shortly be working on new, specialised audio recording tools for our Languages department. These will be based on technology similar to Nanogong. I don't have current plans to contribute any such technology to standard Moodle, however if Moodle HQ (Martin Dougiamas et al) have a desire for that kind of feature, eg an audio-recording assignment type, then they should let me know because maybe I might be able to squeeze it in somehow.
--sam
If size for given quality were the most important concern, then the best commonly-used format would be Ogg Vorbis. Along with a group of other formats, this gives slightly higher quality than mp3 at the same data rate (or lower data rate at the same quality).
If size at all costs is the priority and quality can go by the wayside, then Speex is an excellent telephone-quality codec at very low data rates (way below dialup). I don't like its sound when you increase the data rate. This is available in Java (er, I think - at least, I ported it just for personal use once upon a time, but I think there's a proper port now). But for language teaching, higher quality audio is probably preferable because you are trying to judge the student's pronunciation etc.
Unfortunately reliable, small (suitable to be incorporated within an applet so as to require no other download), cross-platform (pure Java), open-source Java mp3 encoding utilities aren't available as far as I know, which is probably why Nanogong doesn't use mp3, and certainly why I don't. I don't think there's an Ogg Vorbis encoder, either - but that format would have its own disadvantages because on many operating systems it does not play without installing optional software.
I will shortly be working on new, specialised audio recording tools for our Languages department. These will be based on technology similar to Nanogong. I don't have current plans to contribute any such technology to standard Moodle, however if Moodle HQ (Martin Dougiamas et al) have a desire for that kind of feature, eg an audio-recording assignment type, then they should let me know because maybe I might be able to squeeze it in somehow.
--sam
Sam, I think the Moodle 2.0 way to integrate Audio recording would be as a repository plugin. Then, whenever you are looking at a HTML editor (including in a quiz essay question or an online text assignment) you:
http://cvs.moodle.org/moodle/repository/upload/repository.class.php?view=markup
http://cvs.moodle.org/moodle/repository/youtube/repository.class.php?view=markup
Of course, the admin can control whether this particular plugin is enabled or not.
- Click the insert media button on the editor's toolbar
- Choose the 'Record audio' repository.
- Use the embedded applet to make the recording.
- When you are happy, click save, which uploads the audio to Moodle, and inserts a link to it in the HTML, that the multimedia filter will later re-write to show an audio player.
http://cvs.moodle.org/moodle/repository/upload/repository.class.php?view=markup
http://cvs.moodle.org/moodle/repository/youtube/repository.class.php?view=markup
Of course, the admin can control whether this particular plugin is enabled or not.
I use Macvide Audio Recorder
nice prog for recording audio ...on Mac..