URGENT - Is my installation non-standard?

URGENT - Is my installation non-standard?

by Anthony Amorteguy -
Number of replies: 17

I have run out of patience and time, so I need to ask; is it possible that 1and1.com installs a non-standard Moodle? The version I am using is 1.8+ (2007021502). I don't run my own server and this is installed via this company's hosting add-ons.

I am running into problems at every turn and when I look at the Moodle Docs, they don't even match what I am seeing on my page! Example:

1. I have no option under Edit Profile for my users to change profile pics. I DO NOT want to stare at 1000 smiley faces! I want them to change these.

2. Just now I tried to add a global calendar event. I was confused, so I checked the Moodle Docs. It said to just check the type of event after clicking on add event. But, I don't get that option at all under a teacher role, and under admin I don't have the options listed on the block (global, group, course, and user events). All I get is User and Site.

I'm sorry for getting peeved, but what the hell?!? I have spent 16 hours on this Moodle thing and have been thwarted at every turn due to unhelpful and inaccurate help files.

I am NOT computer illiterate! I think I have a fairly thorough computer skill-set, but this Moodle thing is absolutely rediculous as to how difficult and opaque even the most simple tasks are!

I am just a teacher who wants to use this tool but I don't want to spend 8 hours in forums and in help docs only to be unable to change my user pic!!!

How ridiculous!

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In reply to Anthony Amorteguy

Re: URGENT - Is my installation non-standard?

by Steve Hyndman -

Anthony,

I'm sure many will read your post and dismiss you as just a person with a "bad attitude". However, you're expressing frustrations that many new (and some old) users have--this system has become very difficult and complicated over the past year or so, and moodle.docs is a mixture of about 4 radically different versions now and has no chance of keeping pace with the complexity and development. I'm sure there are many others lately like you who have installed this, gotten frustrated, and abandoned it. 

If you really want to use Moodle and can find someone to download Moodle 1.6 from the Moodle.org homepage and install it on your 1and1 account, then I think you will find things a lot simpler and easier to understand. Moodle docs will be of limited use to you regardless of the version you use, but if you are a classroom teacher and (like most) want a simple system, then install 1.6 and you'll find it's a lot easier to figure out by just "clicking around" and experimenting.

Good luck.

Of course, this is all just my opinion.

Steve

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In reply to Steve Hyndman

Re: URGENT - Is my installation non-standard?

by Anthony Amorteguy -

I have to admit that after working on this all weekend, I did end up with a pretty bad attitude. I hope no one takes it personally.

Here's how I had planned for the weekend to go:

  1. Set up Moodle using the add-ons page at 1and1.com
  2. Add all my students
  3. Scope the rest of the school year
  4. Plan and create lessons for at least the next 4 or 5 weeks
  5. Grade papers, get ready for report cards
  6. Work on the class web page
  7. Do the million around-the-house things
  8. Finish all tax prep stuff
  9. Back up all my computer files
  10. When done relax and enjoy what's left of my 3 day weekend

Well, as many can see from my posts I got stuck on 1a. "Try to fix the Moodle installation and fail."

When I was working on my Masters a couple years ago, Moodle was a hot item in the EdTech program. I was one of the most computer skilled in the Masters program and set up my own server and installed my own Moodle and Wiki on my home server.

My thoughts (now that I have wasted my whole weekend and still don't have a usable Moodle) is this: I thought Moodle was meant to be a fairly easy course management system that teachers could use.

Yet, if it has become so complicated that documentation is required (and as it turns out this documentation is incomplete and rife with errors) then you are excluding your target market and Moodle use will continue to decline. That's just my opinion. (Note: I state this after a good night's sleep and a good cup of coffee so I'm in a fairly good mood now.)

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In reply to Anthony Amorteguy

Re: URGENT - Is my installation non-standard?

by Steve Hyndman -

"Yet, if it has become so complicated that documentation is required (and as it turns out this documentation is incomplete and rife with errors) then you are excluding your target market and Moodle use will continue to decline."

You're preaching to the choir here...I couldn't agree more. My only explanation is that for good or bad, "maybe" the target market has changed recently...

Steve

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In reply to Steve Hyndman

Re: URGENT - Is my installation non-standard?

by Anthony Amorteguy -

Well, thanks for the moral support.

I guess my main frustration is not that I don't have the ability to get this thing going, it is that I don't have the time to devote to fixing this installation. I have way too much on my plate. (Don't we all.)

So, I have to abandon this idea.

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In reply to Anthony Amorteguy

Re: URGENT - Is my installation non-standard?

by Mauno Korpelainen -

I know it may be late to write comments,  Anthony, anyway

 http://docs.moodle.org/en/Integrations#Fantastico tells that "The majority of cheap web hosts on the Internet use Fantastico allowing you to install Moodle with a single click."

Why not - but the basic configuration of cpanel moodle is both non standard and unsecure and the most amazing thing is cpanel scripts ability to skip environment check of standard moodle code (utf-8 requirement for example). It's the same problem you get if you download any "non official" program from free web sites - code of Cpanel packages is not supported, it may be upgraded but not so often as the code from moodle.org and so on.

Cheap - fast - one click - but unsecure, useless and waste of time - Fantastico

If 1and1.com and all cheap hosts would by default meet reaquiremnts of moodle http://docs.moodle.org/en/Installing_Moodle#Requirements and offer official packages found from http://download.moodle.org/ you would never see problems like that.

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In reply to Mauno Korpelainen

Re: URGENT - Is my installation non-standard?

by Steve Hyndman -

Yes, but this has absolutely nothing to do with the problems he described in his post. A Moodle install from fantastico and/or cpanel will look and work no differently from an install by a "professional" some other way. Yes...the moodledata folder will be in public_html with a fantastico install and that is a "security" issue, but from a users experience, that means nothing.

So, the fact that he installed through fantastico has nothing to do with the problems he reported here.

Also, your comment below is incorrect:

"but the basic configuration of cpanel moodle is both non standard and unsecure and the most amazing thing is cpanel scripts ability to skip environment check of standard moodle code (utf-8 requirement for example)."

Maybe you intended to say fantastico install and not cpanel install? Cpanel is a great way for a non-command-line person to install and manage Moodle and virtually any other software package. If installing through Cpanel is insecure, then I would guess 80% of all Moodle installs out there are insecure....that would be news, wouldn't you say smile

 Steve

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In reply to Steve Hyndman

Re: URGENT - Is my installation non-standard?

by Steve Hyndman -
Thanks for the rating Eloy...remember though, you're not supposed to be helping me for another 6 or so years wink
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In reply to Steve Hyndman

Re: URGENT - Is my installation non-standard?

by Carl Thomas -
Anthony is stating the truth and I feel the same way. I didn't just spend the week end trying to get Moodle installed and working but so far I have spent three weeks and many hours searching Google for help. I have set up dozens of servers both Windows, Netware and Linuk and the most time I have spent setting up a server was two days. And these where servers that had hardware and or software problems. It seems like the creators of Moodle don't care if you can get their progam to work. Yes it is a good program rich with many features but what good are they if users can't get the program installed or to work. Their answer seems to be pay some one to do it for you. A lot of users and schools do not have the money to pay some one. That is one reason we turn to Open Source and because many time Open Source has a better program. If we had the money we could buy a retail product and save our selves the time and frustration of trying to get Moodle to work.
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In reply to Carl Thomas

Re: URGENT - Is my installation non-standard?

by Steve Hyndman -

Their answer seems to be pay some one to do it for you.

To be more exact, it's ...pay some one a Moodle partner to do it for you. Which is fine if you have the money to spend, but if you don't, good luck finding anyone else smile

Steve

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In reply to Steve Hyndman

Re: URGENT - Is my installation non-standard?

by Mauno Korpelainen -

Steve - really - that's not fair. We have over 300000 people here in these forums asking different things for their own needs and many thousands of us have given something back (like you). The reason why I like to visit this site several times each day is that helping people  gives good feelings - when someone says "Steve, thank you, it was a perfect answer to my question, thank you for helping me..."

Moodle (also 1.8) can be installed just fine with Cpanel as you said, Steve  - but not with the one click fantastico package with default settings (database is not unicode and all requirements are not fullfilled) in 1and1.com.  Complaining about unsuccessful fantastico install in 1and1.com should be addressed to those people that upgrade fantastico packages and don't upgrade environment (php and mysql & their own scripts in 1and1).

...and one thing to add: I have no connections to Moodle Partners and have never had but I still appreciate the WORK they do - as well as I like all those helpful comments you have given, Steve.

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In reply to Mauno Korpelainen

Re: URGENT - Is my installation non-standard?

by Steve Hyndman -

Mauno,

I agree it may be "a little" unfair, but it's not completely unfair...the absolute truth is somewhere in-between. I don't discount the help that many, many, people provide here in the forums everyday...people like you, John, AT, Helen...and many others.

I don't provide much "pro-moodle" help "here" anymore and I'll be the first to admit it. Most of my posts are dedicated to pointing out the "Moodle uglies"...I could post just as many times pointing out the positives, but I choose not to. But then again, if you don't have someone pointing out the uglies, then some may not even know they exist. So, even though I'm not a "cheerleader" here, I do feel I'm providing a valuable service to at least a few people.

Also, I realize you don't have any connections with Moodle Partners...you're here all the time helping....Moodle Partners, with a couple of rare exceptions, "typically" chime in only to say "contact me offline to discuss your needs". And, that's not a dig at Partners, I have a great deal of respect for the couple I've met and wish them well. That's just a reality.

And, I really don't think I'm being unfair at all when I point out that the spoken word and unspoken culture in these forums is "If you can't get help here, then go to a Moodle Partner and trust no one else". The formal structure is clear: Moodle Partners on one end, "unauthorized" providers like 1and1 on the other end, and no other viable alternative in the middle except for these forums. My comment you're replying to here merely points out that "reality".

The original poster had a problem with 1and1 and Moodle....he didn't get any help here that I could see, so what's his alternative other than a Moodle Partner? And please...that's a rhetorical question simply pointing out a reality...I am not interested in another 200 post thread debating it smile...those who strongly disagree can always "rate" these posts to make their voices heard smile

Steve

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In reply to Steve Hyndman

Re: URGENT - Is my installation non-standard?

by Martin Dougiamas -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
You probably aren't aware how much effort goes into providing moodle.org as a place for free support, including buying hardware and bandwidth, providing daily hours of system administration and paid support staff (Helen as Community manager, for example, is hired full-time by Moodle Trust and thus funded by royalties from Moodle Partners, as are some of the core developers you'll see always helping people here as part of their jobs). Heaps of our combined work is aimed at improving how everything works to avoid people even needing support (like the installation process and docs, for example).

One could look at moodle.org as competing directly against commercial services but we don't. Providing free support is crucial, and forces commercial providers to provide services above and beyond what the general community can provide.

Re the original poster, if you and the community in general don't feel able to help him for free here on this site then you are (like anyone) quite welcome to contact him privately and offer your commercial help. It's obviously up to him to decide if he wants it.
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In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: URGENT - Is my installation non-standard?

by Steve Hyndman -

And you probably aren't aware that I help dozens of people who have problems here "offline" and have never asked or taken a penny for my help. I don't offer my "paid" services here "online" or "offline" and I didn't offer them to the OP.

But thanks for the plug...I'm honored...the last time you referenced my site was to shut it down, so it seems we've made some progress over the last couple of years.

Also....just want to once again thank Eloy for the continued ratings and the other disciples for chiming in, if nothing else, you guys are predictable wink

Steve

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In reply to Steve Hyndman

Re: URGENT - Is my installation non-standard?

by Eloy Lafuente (stronk7) -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
Hi Steve,

if you thought I was going to reply, I'm not! surprise

big grin tongueout evil clown

Happy new year and best wishes for you and your .com, sincerely!

Ciao smile
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In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: URGENT - Is my installation non-standard?

by Carl Thomas -
Martin, what you said is true. And I think you have a great product, but the fact still remains that there is no real help or documenation for the user who is trying to install and use Moodle.

I have installed and used a lot of programs over the years (both retail and Open Source) and most (98%) have detailed documenation on how to install and use the program. So a user cane get a basic set up of a working program. I have spent hours searching Moodle for such documenation and have yet to find. And from reading the post a lot of other people have the same need.

I think there should be Moodle Partners. I have used Partners for other programs for support for things beyond basic set up and use. I do not think a person should have to pay for a basic set up.
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In reply to Carl Thomas

Re: URGENT - Is my installation non-standard?

by Nicolas Connault -
Carl, what sort of documentation do you need for the installation? Would this help? There is also a very detailed installation FAQ which you may enjoy perusing through.

Have a look at docs.moodle.org. That's Moodle's official online documentation. It's very detailed, it's editable by anyone, and it's in several languages. In my knowledge it's the most thorough documentation for any Open Source program, although my knowledge of all available softwares is far from reaching even close to 98%, I humbly admit.

Also check the statistics page, to get an idea of how extensive the documentation is.

If you have some specific suggestions of what is lacking in the Moodle documentation, please let us know. Many contributors would be more than happy to volunteer some of their time to make it more detailed.
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In reply to Nicolas Connault

Re: URGENT - Is my installation non-standard?

by Mauno Korpelainen -

To some extent I understand why Carl is inquiring for detailed guide. If we multiply the number of linux distributions alone (+ other operation systems) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions by the number of different versions of php, mysql, mssql, postgres and multiply it by different ways to install/upgrade moodle (unzipping generic packages, WAMP/XAMP/XAMPP/MAMP,CVS,Fantastico...) and multiply this number by the number of different settings and requirements (often set by hosts) that may sometimes cause install to fail (most of them are however explained in documentation) and multiply this by the number of different (old) install guides found from net (written for certain environment) + add the risk of misunderstanding some instructions (if english is not your native language)...

It is easy to see that nobody (not even Helen smile ) can write such instruction that explains everything detailed in one document. I have installed moodle (maybe 1000 times) to about 10 different environments and the first time to do it may be difficult - not caused by moodle but setting up the environment itself - the things you should have done before you press http://myserver/install.php If environment is ok, moodle install scripts run smoothly and you are ready to go in a few minutes.

A newbie teacher willing to install moodle but uncertain about all technical matters and terms may be puzzled but WE are ALL ready to help. wink

Average of ratings: Useful (5)