We are upgrading to v. 1.8 very soon-does that work any better?
Does anyone have a foolproof method of getting short answer questions to actually work? We are running v. 1.7 and I have tried a variety of formats using the asterisk. No matter how the answer choices are entered, the feedback is always wrong answer. We are upgrading to v. 1.8 very soon-does that work any better?
We are upgrading to v. 1.8 very soon-does that work any better?
Hi Elleen,
Please provide more details with what you tried. Like what you have for the answer, response, score, jump, etc.
Cheers,
Mark
Please provide more details with what you tried. Like what you have for the answer, response, score, jump, etc.
Cheers,
Mark
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the offer; it may be easiest to just log in to moodle.bataviacsd.org. Then go to 5th grade (under elementary) and the reference review class. The problem is question #1 in the phone book lesson. This isn't set up how the author first had; these are my fixes after reading some stuff. I thought that if I had an asterisk, a number, and an asterisk, it would consider something like "more than 10" a correct answer. Any help is appreciated!!
Thanks for the offer; it may be easiest to just log in to moodle.bataviacsd.org. Then go to 5th grade (under elementary) and the reference review class. The problem is question #1 in the phone book lesson. This isn't set up how the author first had; these are my fixes after reading some stuff. I thought that if I had an asterisk, a number, and an asterisk, it would consider something like "more than 10" a correct answer. Any help is appreciated!!
Hi Eileen,
Visited the website but could not find the question. Liked the graphics in the topic descriptions! Was surprised not to see use of graphics carry forward into the phone lesson. Anyway.
I fired up one of my clean localhost Moodle's running 1.8.1 and created a lesson with one question. I put *10* in the first answer. In the first answer's response I put "your answer matched *10*" I then put *10, 10*, and * as answers and responses for the remaining, with the last one being the wrong answer.
In preview mode as a teacher, I typed in "more than 10" and it found *10*. "10 or more" found *10* . So that worked.
Then I played around with "* 10 *" and "10 *" (using spaces). The student answer "10 more" stopped at "10 *" It skipped "* 10 *" . Of course a bald person I know sometimes uses letters instead of numbers, which the stupid computer refuses to match
Hope these suggestions help you.
You might have some other issues. Try the short answer on demo.moodle to see if you still have the same problem.
Best Chris
Visited the website but could not find the question. Liked the graphics in the topic descriptions! Was surprised not to see use of graphics carry forward into the phone lesson. Anyway.
I fired up one of my clean localhost Moodle's running 1.8.1 and created a lesson with one question. I put *10* in the first answer. In the first answer's response I put "your answer matched *10*" I then put *10, 10*, and * as answers and responses for the remaining, with the last one being the wrong answer.
In preview mode as a teacher, I typed in "more than 10" and it found *10*. "10 or more" found *10* . So that worked.
Then I played around with "* 10 *" and "10 *" (using spaces). The student answer "10 more" stopped at "10 *" It skipped "* 10 *" . Of course a bald person I know sometimes uses letters instead of numbers, which the stupid computer refuses to match
You might have some other issues. Try the short answer on demo.moodle to see if you still have the same problem.
Best Chris
Hi Chris,
I have some questions regarding the setting of answers in quiz.
Say for an example, a question for students:
Question: What is an enzyme?
Answer: An enzyme is a biological catalyst which can speed up the rate of chemical reactions.
Note: The bolded phrases are key words that count 1% @.
Now, here are my problems:
- How can I make use of the "Regular Expression Analysis" to configure the answers to accept the keywords?
- In other words, how should I make use of ".*biological catalyst*." to count the key words?
- How should I make use of "(|biological )catalyst" to say that biological is optional, but count 0.5% marks extra, if existed?
- How should I make use of "[chemical ]reactions?" to say that chemical should better appear in the answer for 1% mark, if not, for reaction (with or without "s") only scores 0.5% marks?
- How should I make use of "(speed up|increase)" is either words accepted?
- How should I sequence the order of keywords? or, as a contrary, how to configure that if the sequence of those keywords are NOT important?
- When should I use "-- /" or "++ /"?
Thanks in advance.
Cheers
James
Hi James,
I think we need a Moodle Maven to step in here. Perhaps Joseph Rézeau will see your post. It is a good question but beyond my limited talent (I pick off the sort of easy forum questions).
I did check MoodleDocs under Quiz and question types and ended up with Short Answer Analysis which gives some external links Joseph has set up for additional help on regular expressions.
Sorry I could not be of more immediate help.
I think we need a Moodle Maven to step in here. Perhaps Joseph Rézeau will see your post. It is a good question but beyond my limited talent (I pick off the sort of easy forum questions).
I did check MoodleDocs under Quiz and question types and ended up with Short Answer Analysis which gives some external links Joseph has set up for additional help on regular expressions.
Sorry I could not be of more immediate help.
Hi Chris,
Thanks for your prompt response.
I shall wait for Joseph's reply. Actually, the problem I raised has long become an urge from our teachers. It is regarding perhaps a new type of question mode, the "Key words question", of which different key words (or criteria) are pre-assigned with different marks subject to two conditions:
- "and" or "or"
- "in sequence" or "not in sequence"
I think with this new type of question mode, a basic marking can be done in a short time for a lot of students, some of whom will benefit the most if they belong to self-studying enrollments.
Teachers are suggested to go through each and every of the submitted answers anytime later. But the students can receive immediately, at least the responses like "keywords missing in your answer that starts with "a..." . Please try to re-phrase your answer by inserting appropriately such keywords"... etc.
This has been just a thought, an idea or even a dream since I started using Moodle three years ago. Especially useful to senior class students, or essay type questions. Any idea?
Thanks in advance.
Cheers
James
Hi James,
Very good restatement of the desired outcome.
My other suggestions would be to put the idea in Tracker as a feature request or improvement. Maybe the folks working on the Question Bank or Quiz forum might be working along these lines?
Best Chris
Very good restatement of the desired outcome.
My other suggestions would be to put the idea in Tracker as a feature request or improvement. Maybe the folks working on the Question Bank or Quiz forum might be working along these lines?
Best Chris
Hi Chris,
Thanks for your suggestion. I would like to see it in the tracker, but how can I make such request ?
BTW, I'm not sure if Martin or Gordon is interested in looking into it for their hotpot module ---- i.e. an alternative to the JQuiz.
Cheers
James
Hi James,
Took me a while to get the hang of tracker but I highly recommend it to users who have worked with Moodle and understand the difference between a bug and "I want to".
You will have to get a Log in. http://tracker.moodle.org/secure/Dashboard.jspa
There is a help link with suggestions for some do's and don't of tracker.
Once logged in, create a new issue (top left). In Type of Issue, select "improvement" or perhaps "new feature" and then fill out the form that follows.
Been following the thread. Reminder that while Lesson and Quiz are different, you can always call a lesson a quiz, and have the use of the more complex evaluation for short answer.
Took me a while to get the hang of tracker but I highly recommend it to users who have worked with Moodle and understand the difference between a bug and "I want to".
You will have to get a Log in. http://tracker.moodle.org/secure/Dashboard.jspa
There is a help link with suggestions for some do's and don't of tracker.
Once logged in, create a new issue (top left). In Type of Issue, select "improvement" or perhaps "new feature" and then fill out the form that follows.
Been following the thread. Reminder that while Lesson and Quiz are different, you can always call a lesson a quiz, and have the use of the more complex evaluation for short answer.
Hi Chris
I sucessfully lodge a new issue at the tracker, http://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-10652.
However, when I didn't enter any name at "assignee", it seems to automatically assign it to Gordon for testing out, which I thought should be Joseph.
Anyway, I submitted it and let's wait. Thanks for your help.
Cheers
James
James,
you had selected HotPot as one of the affected components, which is why the system assigned the feature request to me.
However, to implement this feature in HotPot would require an awful lot of work, and the best place to start would be over on the Hot Potatoes user group over at Yahoo, to try and persuade Martin and Stewart to add it to Hot Potatoes.
For the time-being, I have removed HotPot from the list of Moodle components affected by your feature request, and the request is currently assigned to Mark N., is his role as maintained of the Lesson module.
best regards
Gordon
you had selected HotPot as one of the affected components, which is why the system assigned the feature request to me.
However, to implement this feature in HotPot would require an awful lot of work, and the best place to start would be over on the Hot Potatoes user group over at Yahoo, to try and persuade Martin and Stewart to add it to Hot Potatoes.
For the time-being, I have removed HotPot from the list of Moodle components affected by your feature request, and the request is currently assigned to Mark N., is his role as maintained of the Lesson module.
best regards
Gordon
Hi Gordon,
Thanks for your information. Here below is what I've submitted at hotpotatoes. I hope the message is useful to all during the discussions. I re-posted some of the discussions found in above messages.
Say for an example, a question for students:
Question: What is an enzyme?
Answer: An enzyme is a biological catalyst which can speed up the rate of chemical reactions.
Actually, the problem I raised is regarding perhaps a new type of question mode, the "Key words question", of which different key words (or criteria) are pre-assigned with different marks subject to two conditions:
- "and" or "or"
- "in sequence" or "not in sequence"
The dummy screen is here at 
I think with this new type of question mode, a basic marking can be done in a short time for a lot of students.
Teachers are suggested to go through every of the submitted answers anytime later. But the students can receive immediately, at least the responses like "keywords missing in your answer that starts with "a...". Please try to re-phrase your answer by inserting appropriately such keywords"... etc.
In addition, a suggested answer (in complete sentence, as seen in A) can be given automatically to students if such key words appear in students' answer.
I think there is a requirement for an immediate response to some senior form students or during some kind of self-study majored essay-typed questions, e.g. structured questions found in subjects like Chemistry, Biology, Physics, History, Geography and Economics, etc.
Teachers are still able to review students' answers one by one later, or during his usual hours, and re-grade their score anytime later.
For sure, this mode could not be used for actual exam purpose. Like other features of Hotpot, it may help students in their revision or study only ---- to help them memorize key words.
But one thing is that if a teacher doesn't know much of the "programming expression" using the , * () or [] , I would suggest similar alternative as the image above.
To make it simpler, the score on the right hand side is now 2%. I would like to add one more function, to allow teachers to assign a "plus" or "minus" score (i.e. % correct and % incorrect). So, even when the teachers have to do adding or penalty, the score can be different for different correct answers or mistakes.
In addition, an option is allowed for teachers to add answer B to answer C, and so on. Then the engine sums up the total scores to be equal or less than the score in answer A.
I'm not sure if this involves a lot of programming but am sure that this would benefit all teachers to expand the use of this module into the keywords function in the coming school year.
Any idea? Thanks in advance.
James
Hi James,
Part of the fun of Moodle is you never know where you will end up. Solutions can come in very unlikely places. The great Moodle deity decided that Gordon's team was where we might find enlightenment.
I don't know much about HotPot but check out http://hotpot.uvic.ca/v6_faq.htm#NewFeatures
Best Chris
Part of the fun of Moodle is you never know where you will end up. Solutions can come in very unlikely places. The great Moodle deity decided that Gordon's team was where we might find enlightenment.
I don't know much about HotPot but check out http://hotpot.uvic.ca/v6_faq.htm#NewFeatures
Best Chris
Hi Chris,
As suggested by Gordon, I also submitted my request at hotpotatoes at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hotpotatoesusers/message/18001
I hope Martin or some other experts will be interested in adding this functions. Many thanks so far.
Cheers
James
Hi James,
I saw your post over on the Yahoo list for Hot Potatoes Users. Great stuff!
As you may know, Martin and Stewart are currently planning the successor to Hot Potatoes, so this could be a good time to request new features, so that even if they don't make it into Hot Potatoes 6, your suggestions may influence what the next version of the software can do.
all the best
Gordon
I saw your post over on the Yahoo list for Hot Potatoes Users. Great stuff!
As you may know, Martin and Stewart are currently planning the successor to Hot Potatoes, so this could be a good time to request new features, so that even if they don't make it into Hot Potatoes 6, your suggestions may influence what the next version of the software can do.
all the best
Gordon
Hi Gordon,
Thanks for your encouragment.
For your reference, here belows are more discussions at hot potatoes.
- http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hotpotatoesusers/message/18005
- http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/hotpotatoesusers/message/18006
I hope the above discussions could help someone who wants to go further in the discussions. Thanks.
Cheers
James
Hi James (and Chris),
I will try to answer your query as soon as possible. However, I think my regular expression question type, for the Quiz module would be more suitable for your needs than the Lesson module.
Joseph
I will try to answer your query as soon as possible. However, I think my regular expression question type, for the Quiz module would be more suitable for your needs than the Lesson module.
Joseph
Hi Joseph,
Thanks for your reply. Looking forward to your Quiz module.
Cheers
James
I suppose you could try to write a regular expression to handle your example, but it would probably take as much time as manually grading 30 short essay responses. Worse, you can never adequately test your R.E., making it highly probable that (a) some students with ridiculous answers will get full credit and (b) some students with perfectly reasonable answers will get no credit at all. I wouldn't want to have to deal with (b).
Hi John,
I agree with you. But as mentioned in my previous message, there is obviously a requirement for an immediate response to some senior form students or during some kind of self-study majored essay-typed questions, e.g. structured questions found in subjects like Chemistry, Biology, Physics, History, Geography and Economics, etc.
Teachers are still able to review students' answers one by one later, or during his usual hours, and re-grade their score anytime later.
I am looking forward to this new question mode mainly on "keywords".
In addition, a suggested answer (in complete sentence) can be given automatically to students if such key words appear in students' answer.
For sure, this mode could not be used for actual exam purpose. Like Hotpot, it may help students in their revision or study only ---- to help them memorize key words. Or otherwise, is there an existing module with similar function that can be used at the moment? Any input?
Thanks in advance.
James
I agree with John.
The regular expresion model
is a sub-set of a formal languages theory
which require math knowledge in depth.
http://www.regular-expressions.info/
Maybe a set of typical regular expresions
about quiz purpose will be helpfull
as a a foolproof method of getting short answer questions?
Kiril
The regular expresion model
is a sub-set of a formal languages theory
which require math knowledge in depth.
http://www.regular-expressions.info/
Maybe a set of typical regular expresions
about quiz purpose will be helpfull
as a a foolproof method of getting short answer questions?
Kiril
hi chris.
It would be better to define enzyme as a protein molecule that acts as a biological molecule that speeds up reaction by providinga an alternative route with lower activation energy.
Cheers!!!!
Daniel
Hi Daniel,
Some of us are not content experts, we just try to solve the technical problems.
I forget whose example it was.
Best Chris
Some of us are not content experts, we just try to solve the technical problems.
I forget whose example it was. Best Chris