Viva Moodle 1.6

Viva Moodle 1.6

Timothy Takemoto -
回帖数:72

Michael Penny was kind enough to suggest that I upgrade. This is the biggest issue I have and can not get away from.

Moodle 1.6 has

  • AJAX in the form of Audun Hauge's Layout Editor (enabling to drag and drop course weeks and modules. 2 years later and I believe that Moodle AJAX - I have no idea why Auduns' code was not used - is still experimental I believe.)
  • Brian Koontz's Course Date Manager, enabling us to change all the dates for all the modules in a course on a page, is only at 1.6.
  • TUI module (excellent for psychologists) is for 1.5/1.6.

All of which are essential for me. AND

Sever speed is critical for me now due to the increase in students and content, but I hear that 1.7 and above may be slower. I really need faster, not slower.

And a minor quibble is that 1.7's pretty admin menu makes finding Admin functions more difficult.

I do NOT need roles. The only time I want to give students more power than the student role is in seminars when I can trust them with the teacher role.

Also, Moodle 1.6 is easy to hack to fine tweak roles (adding "isguest()" "isteacher()" "isadmin()" etc).

I would like feedback on quiz questions as opposed to just answers which is available in 1.7 apparently. I may be able to down-wards port this.

The 1.6 gradebook is more complex than in previous versions. I displays some information twice for instance. I would like to be able to edit grades in the gradebook but I can do this after export. I would like to know what the all new 1.9 gradebook can do.

But for the most part, content is the main thing. I could spend decades adding to, improving, and one day soon hopefully, sharing content.

I am a dinosaur. Long live Moodle 1.6!

Tim

回复Timothy Takemoto

Re: Viva Moodle 1.6

Martín Langhoff -
That's great! Go at your own pace. Life's a mix of dinosaurs (reptiles are still with us, and going strong) and modern mammals.
回复Timothy Takemoto

Re: Viva Moodle 1.6

Don Hinkelman -
Particularly helpful Moodlers的头像 Plugin developers的头像
Dinosaurs, welcome! 微笑 May you never become extinct. 微笑

I agree you have some major impediments to upgrading. Just some comments about concerns you need not worry about.

>> Server speed is critical for me now due to the increase in students and content, but I hear that 1.7 and above may be slower. I really need faster, not slower.

Our very heavy load test with 300 simultaneous students taking a 50 question quiz with 32 audio files showed no problem with speed in version 1.7 compared to earlier versions (1.4, 1.5 and 1.6). See complete results and advice on this thread.


>> I do NOT need roles. The only time I want to give students more power than the student role is in seminars when I can trust them with the teacher role.

You can ignore roles. As you upgrade if you just go with defaults, all roles will continue as before--admin, course creator, teacher, student. By the way, the roles function not only allows you to upgrade student permissions but also to *downgrade* their power. For example, you can create a "super-slave" role, a "gopher" role, or a "feudal serf" role. 眨眼

Seriously, some of our teachers want to be able to turn off all ability of students to see their own grades. This can be done. evil

Right now I am trying to create a new role that grants teachers *more* administrative power--it is called a "salary adjuster" role. I tried it once and my next paycheck was 15% higher! wide eyes

Don
回复Don Hinkelman

Re: Viva Moodle 1.6

Timothy Takemoto -

I hope that the rumours of greater server load on 1.7 and above are unfounded. 

If so I can wait till AJAX stabilises, hope that someone makes a date administrator and save up to pay for a new version of the TUI. That may take several years, but I am in no hurry becuase I am not aware of benefits yet.

In the meantime I think that I should be making patches to my 1.6.

TIm

回复Timothy Takemoto

Re: Viva Moodle 1.6

Martin Dougiamas -
Core developers的头像 Documentation writers的头像 Moodle HQ的头像 Particularly helpful Moodlers的头像 Plugin developers的头像 Testers的头像
The AJAX course editing page is perfectly stable and usable (and even fun) on 1.8 and later.

I think the *switch* might have been left in the experimental section of the menus a bit longer than it should have, but the function itself is fine.

About the rest, well, a lot of people seem to be enjoying the new flexibility once they cross that small learning curve. That said, 1.6 will work for you for as long as you like, so it's up to you (as always!).
回复Martin Dougiamas

Re: Viva Moodle 1.6

Frances Bell -
Have there been any discussions about having two parallel versions of Moodle?
The concept of Moodle Lite has been discussed before with regard to machine power but I haven't seen any discussion before this recent one about a 'simpler to learn' small org version of Moodle as compared with a full blown institutional version where full features such as role are essential and the configuration resource is available to tailor the package to institutional requirements.
Like Tim, I am sticking with 1.6, but this is not a long term solution I think.
回复Frances Bell

Re: Viva Moodle 1.6

Paolo Oprandi -
> Have there been any discussions about having two parallel versions of Moodle?

If there isn't I think there should be, and have thought that ever since exploring the new roles and permissions model. I don't know what this Moodle Lite is, but I don't really like the sound of it. I just want a finished Moodle 1.6 (with AJAX and the bugs and usabilty issues fixed) ...and without the new roles and permissions of later versions. Why did they do that to us???

微笑
回复Martin Dougiamas

Re: Viva Moodle 1.6

Timothy Takemoto -

Martin, Frances

> The AJAX course editing page is perfectly stable and usable (and even fun) on 1.8 and later.

Well that is 2 out of the four things I am looking for, assuming later versions are indeed not significantly greater users of processor power. But then again, I already have them (though Audun Hague's AJAX, if it is appropriate to call it that, is not nearly so attractive).

All the same, "Moodle Lite" does sound like a good idea, since I think that large universities are going to be looking for something rather different to the individual teacher. Moodle (non-Lite) seems to be going for the university as a whole but it is often the teacher-administrator that help out here, perhaps, and form a large portion of the user base and moodle community. At the same time, since the teacher-administrators don't have the budget, the overall development path is bound to lead towards the objectives of the larger users. This is where a Moodle Lite could come in handy.

I have also noticed that the maximum enrolments hack by Ken Wilson is made for 1.6 and it looks like it may cure the preregistration needs I have at the moment.

Tim

回复Martin Dougiamas

Re: Viva Moodle 1.6

D.I. von Briesen -

Martin-

You wrote that the ajax course editing page is stable and usable. I should know better, but wonder if I'm missing something. We did a lot of work over the summer, most of it working on a local installation for speed purposes (in Africa with ADSL and all that) and found the ajax option was great when it worked, but a bit over half the time (rule of thumb statistics) the changes (moves, indents) reverted when you later refreshed the page. This got to be so frustrating we had to go back to good 'ol "move by reload".

I couldn't really complain about this since it did indeed say "experimental" - but it was a feature I REALLY really wanted, since with the old system going from a 16 week to an 8 week course was a real ******!

So has something changed since the summer (say june to be safe)? When you say "page" you do mean the regular page with the features turned on, right? Not some secondary/add-on page like before?

Or is there perhaps some not-so-obvious settings (like browser cache, paging memory) that might affect this?

If indeed it is truly stable/reliable, I'd suggest to Timothy that that's worth the price of admission by itself!!

d.i.

回复D.I. von Briesen

Re: Viva Moodle 1.6

Martín Langhoff -

has something changed since the summer (say june to be safe)?

If the Moodle version you were using was "1.8.x+" from around June, just go to the tracker and run a search for AJAX bugs on 1.8.x closed from June until now. And you can always run your own tests on a test Moodle install, without messing with the "production" one...

Self-service is the way to do it 眨眼

回复Martín Langhoff

Re: Viva Moodle 1.6

Timothy Takemoto -
Dear Martin L.

I checked the bug tracker as you suggest. First of all I checked for AJAX bugs post June 12th on 1.8.3. There were two fixed (but not relevant) and one unresolved. Then I searched for bugs open on 1.8, 1.8.1 and 1.8.2 and found that there are 9 open and two closed. The closed ones do not seem to be relevant to the problem D.I. mentioned above, but one or two of the open bugs do, e.g. MDL-11539 AJAX Shifting of Blocks Incorrect - Movement doesn't match DB activity. Throwing the net wider to look at open AJAX bugs on 1.7 and above, there are MDL-10221, MDL-10043, MDL-7814...Some of these sound very much like the problems that D. I. and I experienced.

I wonder why Vy left. Bummer.

Tim
回复D.I. von Briesen

Re: Viva Moodle 1.6

Timothy Takemoto -

Thanks D.I.

When I tried AJAX about a year ago, my experience was very similar, in that AJAX almost worked. But when I threw a several changes at it, some did not stick. It was not disasterous at all, but a bit unpredictable.

To be honest Audun Haugue's old javascript (I am calling it AJAX) for 1.6 is a bit buggy too. It takes ages to make the changes. And the top course description section is treated like another week. And it ignores, or does not set, the site encoding so the first thing you have to do is reset the browser encoding. But I like the way that it is an arcane seperate page, to be called up by experts in times of dire need, rather than a new view on the course. This differences is only cosmetic (or a "usability" issue). It would be solved if the Moodle AJAX could be turned off an on with another button at the top of course pages like the "turn on editing" and the "student view" (<great!) buttons, rather than as a site wide setting.

I agree that a rock solid AJAX that does not slow things down would be worth the price of admission, but for my esoteric TUI problem, and less esoteric Brian Koontz date changer problem. Brian Koontz's course date changer is great and for me greatly overlooked.

Tim

回复Martin Dougiamas

Re: Viva Moodle 1.6

Ulrike Montgomery -

Martin,

Thanks for pointing that out. Even though I really like the AJAX feature, I only activated it very late at night when nobody else was logged in (it worked great every time I used it) and deactivated it again before dawn. I was scared of upsetting the system by using something 'experimental'.

回复Don Hinkelman

Re: Viva Moodle 1.6

Chris Collman -
Don,
LOL and your comments about roles and evil note about teachers not wanting students to see their grades created an idea in my head.

I linked that with "Moodle Lite". Why not a new role property, so we could create a "Newbie KISS" role. If settings are basically distracting to certain users, why should they see them? Seriously, if your role has a Newbie KISS role attribute checked, the autosave default settings kicks in. Just like with the install package, a teacher can always go back and change the settings if the need is there. Ignorance is bliss.big grin

Earlier I had suggested a save button right at the top of every setting page and placing the fields with no defaults at the very top of the page. Michael Penny mentioned something about new code and autosave in the assignment module. Thus I don't believe any of my wild ideas are new.

I will keep the "Salary adjuster" role to myself. I have to work on how to hide its existence from the "supreme deity". Yes I am all excited because I really think we are jumping from 1.5.2 (pre Cambrian) to 1.8.2 if I can figure out the fossil record for my site administrator.

Best to all - Chris
回复Chris Collman

Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Alexandre Enkerli -
Been thinking about this for a little while but it's not completely fleshed out in my mind. One of Moodle's strengths is in the direct relationship between teachers and developers. But there's something about Moodle development which seems to be a bit more toward the administrator or geeky teacher side of the equation than the average user side (including many students and teachers). The doc is appropriate enough but there still isn't a "Moodle for Dummies" component. Getting into Moodle isn't a difficult process but it does require a bit of effort.
A lite version of Moodle could make a lot of sense. And, as Chris points out, this could be achieved through roles.
Not exactly sure what features should be included. Not really sure the simple version should really be restricted, perhaps just hiding features until they're needed. Maybe something more of a walkthrough.
Yeah, I know, there's documentation we can read. But this would be more of a hands-on tutorial in which people are actually using a Moodle site which is built progressively.
And I just notice that I think about it as a teacher. I'm thinking about "here's how you can build a course in Moodle." But there really should be one for students. "Here's how you can learn to use Moodle and use Moodle to learn." Step-by-step. I don't typically like linear stuff and this needs not be strictly linear. But something of a path. A crash course in Moodling, as an actual barebones/KISS/Lite Moodle.

Does this make any sense? Pensif
回复Alexandre Enkerli

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Frances Bell -
In my post http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=81318#p360634
on Moodle Lite as a 'simplified version' for teachers, I referred back to the Lite concept from a hardware/ environment point of view, and forward to the idea of Moodle Lite as a means of complexity management for teacher users. Since then, there have been references to related ideas of wizards, newbie KISSes and Moodle for Dummies, and now the concept of Student Lite versions. I think that this is an age-old tussle between simplicity and richness, and testament to the imagination and ingenuity of Moodlers. We are great , aren't we?
......but are we asking our developers for something very difficult that will complicate their work enormously?
回复Frances Bell

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Steve Hyndman -

......but are we asking our developers for something very difficult that will complicate their work enormously?

FYI...Be careful how you answer these "loaded" questions wink

Steve

回复Frances Bell

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Alexandre Enkerli -
Doh!

Sorry to beat an old horse with a dead saw! 眨眼
But I'm glad these issues have been (and/or are being) taken by the Moodle community.

(I just wrote a longish reply but it got lost because, apparently, my Moodle session was closed. I even got a "sesskey" problem the second time around. Pensif My main point was: )
To make the Moodle experience as pleasant to users as it can be, we need to think like users. New users do like simplicity. Experienced users like flexibility. A Lite/Newbie/Barebones/KISS/simplified version/mode/role for Moodle could help new users go through the learning curve without sacrificing flexibility for power users.

(The rest of my reply had more to do with my initial experience with Moodle, some questions I still have after a few semesters of using Moodle, and questions I heard colleagues ask.)
回复Alexandre Enkerli

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Don Hinkelman -
Particularly helpful Moodlers的头像 Plugin developers的头像
As a teacher who has tried numerous new kinds of software, I almost always start something new by *modifying* an already-created model.

Thus a Moodle-Lite or a Moodle-Wizard should focus on providing some model courses (empty of data) that teachers can play with. They can learn to delete things they do not need (far easier than adding). I would see a wizard providing a list of model courses (some very simple) with brief descriptions that a teacher could choose one that might be somewhat similar to their situation.

In the Admin panel or a side block for teachers, there should also be a link to an easy-to-download/import repository of model courses.
回复Don Hinkelman

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Alexandre Enkerli -
Model courses. I like this! Not only is it easier to delete things than to add them but it's often easier to copy things than to create them. Especially if you don't really know how they were created in the first place.
A repository would also be a really nice way to connect Moodle users who may be teaching similar courses. In this case, it could be the step up from sharing syllabi.
Though I agree that it shouldn't really include data, it'd be nice to have a way to see how it looks with data in. Kind of like the "Lorem ipsum" excerpt works in desktop publishing apps. Though it's possible to look at a Moodle site through different roles, there could be a "dummy user" created by the wizard. This user could post assignments, send blog posts, etc. but the results would only appear in the teacher's interface.
What's nice about this idea is that we might have pretty much everything we need in Moodle as it is set up to create model courses while waiting for a wizard feature. It's already possible to export and import course materials. And Moodle has an active user base of people who are probably willing to share content.
Nice!
回复Don Hinkelman

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Frances Bell -
On the CABWEB project we provide 'template' courses with accompanying demos ( one of the researchers created imaginary students and constructed forums based on 'real' interactions). Our challenge was that tutors who may never have met, and never before used Moodle were to set up and run short-term online collaborations for their students. We had no developer resource and wanted to be sustainable so detailed customisation was beyond us. Our test of configuration was - Will it survive to the next version of Moodle? That's why I find the discussion about some people's (me included) reluctance to move to 1.7/1.8 very interesting.
There was another discussion about use of demos that explored some of these ideas, see here.
回复Frances Bell

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Ralf Hilgenstock -
Core developers的头像 Particularly helpful Moodlers的头像 Translators的头像
We had several requests from potential clients about simplified moodle systems. But each client had other ideas about simplicity.

One said we need only three activities and two blocks. An other one wished a template where a member of administration without any knowledge about moodle can add the content for a complete course in five minutes, only with uploading some files in a folder for strongly structured courses.

It s not a problem to configurate the system in such a way if you know the questions and wishes. Most of you here can do this without thinking a lot.

I see a lot of problems with usability in Moodle. I see lots of topics where the expected behaviour is not the moodle behaviour.

But we should be carefull. Education is a complex process with uncountable options to do things in the right way. Education supporting software can't suggest its all simple. If we do this, we say we can reduce the complexity of education. And if we think about social contructivism this is a human and natural process, but its not a simple process.

So what we need is a an acceptance about a consulting process to use and configure a moodle system in the best way for the concepts an organization will realize.
Such a system can't be selfexplaining. It can be intuitive in most situatons, but not i all. If we asks user that know other systems from the students and teachers view they tell us "doing things in Moodle is easier and almost done in minor steps than in other systems."
回复Alexandre Enkerli

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

John Isner -
When a "lite" interface (e.g., a wizard) fails, users become doubly frustrated, having been led to believe that the system was easy/simple to use. Think about the kinds of error messages you have seen when a wizard finally throws up its hands.

IMO time and effort would be much better spent on improving the documentation.
回复John Isner

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Martín Langhoff -
IMO time and effort would be much better spent on _getting it done_. Mockups? Corridor-usability-testing with paper mockups? Analysis? Code? Funding for any of the aforementioned?
回复Martín Langhoff

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Frances Bell -
I am struggling to understand this exchange. Can you and John enlighten me?
I understood John to mean user documentation but do you mean system documentation?
回复Frances Bell

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

John Isner -
This discussion evolved from being about "lite" versions of Moodle for small institutions into one about "lite" interfaces for teachers, having wizards and the like. My comment about documentation is directed at the latter. I think a better way to help unsophisticated users is with more and better help files, better organization of docs.moodle.org, books and tutorials, etc. I worry about interfaces that try to hide inherent complexity because I haven't seen it done successfully.
回复John Isner

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Alexandre Enkerli -
(The shift in discussion focus is probably my fault. Or, more specifically, I see a resource-light Moodle as a good approach to newbie Moodle. Much of it is, from me, just thinking out loud.)

I'm no UI expert and my ideas about interface design are certainly skewed. John, I see what you mean but I have a different perspective on this.
As a user, I feel that some simple yet powerful interfaces are often the most efficient way to get users to learn how to use a tool. Since Moodle is meant for learning and since it's based on constructivist ideas, there's something fitting about making "learning Moodle" a "Moodle-style learning experience." Maybe I'm not expressing this clearly (I have a cold) but it all makes sense in my mind.
The key to simplified interfaces isn't to just hide features but to make sure that the ease of accessing features somehow corresponds to the importance these features may have for differently experienced users. Hard not to think about "learning curves" here but the better analogy probably has to do with step-by-step learning, walk before you run.
Not to sound like an Apple fanboy but I can think of several examples in Apple products through which a simplified design makes a lot of complexity non-problematic.The features which newbie users are most likely to use are painfully obvious at first sight. It's only a matter of time before some of the slightly more involved features become very apparent. Really "geeky" features may never become really apparent to many users as they won't need it. Still, they are (or at least, should be) well-documented so that the curious user can find them if she feels the need for them.
Another way to put it is that the interface itself could do some of the job of documenting. "Welcome to Moodle. Here are building blocks to play with."
As it stands, the documentation is already a bit much, for the casual user. The Moodle community certainly needs to make sure the documentation is appropriate, clear, and current as possible. But I'm trying to think about "hand-holding" methods. My university does have short PDF files to make it easy for Moodle newbies: Instructor documentation and Student documentation. As these things go, those files are decent enough. But I'm quite sure very few people have even read them.
Straightforward textual documentation is extremely useful when you know about some feature and want to make it work. Walkthroughs, tours, and tutorials (as presentations with some interactivity) can be quite useful as ways to present features to people who know what they want to do. But many Moodle users (thinking about teachers again) are in the dark as to some very basic ideas about what Moodle is and what it can do.
My hunch is that some kind of simplified Moodle installation that they can fully control themselves and import into a larger Moodle installation would make a lot of sense. Yes, "Moodle on a stick." But with an emphasis on hands-on self-training (and, possibly, collaborative learning among colleagues!). With model courses to play with and adapt. And complete documentation. Possibly with dummy users, to see how well the system functions. In a safe environment. As something to work on during a break.
I can just see it. And it could be quite reassuring.
回复Alexandre Enkerli

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

John Isner -
My university does have short PDF files to make it easy for Moodle newbies: Instructor documentation and Student documentation. As these things go, those files are decent enough. But I'm quite sure very few people have even read them.

Maybe it's because they're pdf files. I'd rather have a sharp stick in the eye than read a pdf file on my computer screen 微笑
回复John Isner

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Steve Hyndman -

Maybe it's because they're pdf files. I'd rather have a sharp stick in the eye than read a pdf file on my computer screen smile.

Now, you've identified the problem with talking about documentation as a solution to anything 微笑. No one reads online (or offline) help files regardless of the format. Unsophisticated users (or otherwise) are typically "just in time learners". When they need to know something, they usually ask someone, poke around until they stumble across the answer, or go to a training class, if available, but the last thing they do is read online documentation.

Concentrating on improving moodle.docs is a big waste of time...IMO. I would guess that less than 1% of Moodle users even know docs.moodle exists and of those who do know it exists, less than 1% of them actually use it.

As far as a "moodle lite" goes...there is already a very good moodle lite out there...it's called moodle 1.6. The best thing that could happen for the masses (in my opinion) would be for an energetic group of capable people who are looking for an open source project to sink their teeth into, to take moodle 1.6, fork it, and start an "LMS lite"...let Moodle "post 1.6 go wherever it's going and develop LMS lite based on 1.6 for "simple" users".

Just as a suggestion, the first thing to do would be to remove useless features like the survey, wiki, and blog, from 1.6 to make it even liter, then look at slowly building in some features that simple users would find useful...like better forum management (similar to blackboard forums), forum moderation, activity locking, incorporating feedback and quickmail into core, a simple whiteboard with chat, student file upload and management, better teacher file management among all their courses, etc. An "LMS lite" based on moodle 1.6 that people knew would be kept updated with security patches, even if they knew no improvements would be made, would serve the needs of a lot of simple users for a long time to come.

And, before someone "suggest it", no I'm not going to do it....no time or interest. But if someone does decide to organize something like this, contact me and I will certainly help smile

Steve

平均分: Not very cool (1)
回复Steve Hyndman

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

A. T. Wyatt -
Greetings, Steve!

You know, this reminds me a bit of the moodle portfolio. When you set that up, and I set mine up similarly, I just turned off a lot of the modules that were not really appropriate for a portfolio instance.

I think you can do that in any version of Moodle. Just hide the modules and/or blocks that you don't want to be available on the system. I have hidden a few things on ours. I have also hidden some things and then restored them when someone was ready to use them and they had mysteriously disappeared!

I also remember a long time ago, maybe it was Ger in Moodle 1.5?, who talked about changing the strings that appear in the resource/activity dropdowns and putting numbers to indicate what was most used to least used. This would give faculty members some cues for the selection process.

The main problem I see on my campus is that we have a huge variety of purposes, of needs, and of skill levels. A single instructor might use more advanced tools in one course and less advanced tools in another. The practical approach is, oftentimes, one-size-fits-all. In this case, interestingly enough, the one-size is the more advanced. In other contexts, the one-size is sometimes to the other end of the spectrum!

It is a thorny problem, for sure.

atw
回复Steve Hyndman

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

John Isner -
Steve,
Actually I was talking specifically about pdf files. I hate pdf because of the fixed page size, the fact that text isn't reflowed when pages are resized, because I can't scroll smoothly or copy text using keyboard shortcuts, etc. IMHO pdf is good for exactly one thing: printing.

I'm a true believer in documentation, especially when it's hyperlinked to the application, like the new "Moodle docs for this page" at the bottom of every page and the help files next to form fields. I think more people would use docs.moodle.org if it were better organized. I see its biggest problem as poorly maintained categories. Think about the way you browse Wikipedia. Can you use moodle docs that way? [I am not talking about searching, I am talking about browsing -- looking for information when you're not sure what you're looking for, but you'll know when you see it]
回复John Isner

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Martin Dougiamas -
Core developers的头像 Documentation writers的头像 Moodle HQ的头像 Particularly helpful Moodlers的头像 Plugin developers的头像 Testers的头像
John, some concrete examples of the problems would help people fix them.

I actually think Helen (and others) are spending a lot of time and doing a great job of organising categories. Personally I only really use search though (and on Wikipedia too).
回复Steve Hyndman

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Eloy Lafuente (stronk7) -
Core developers的头像 Documentation writers的头像 Moodle HQ的头像 Particularly helpful Moodlers的头像 Peer reviewers的头像 Plugin developers的头像 Testers的头像
>Concentrating on improving moodle.docs is a big waste of time...IMO. I would guess that less than 1% of Moodle users even know docs.moodle exists and of those who do know it exists, less than 1% of them actually use it.

I really think that you're wrong (is that the word to express my disagree? 吐舌头 ) with that estimation. One quick look to the list of registered users in the English Moodle Docs show more than 10000 registered users (and I'm pretty sure that there are more users accessing there without being registered).

So, at least 10000 Moodlers think that Moodle Docs are useful and are potentially interested into help making docs better and better.

And I must admit that it would be great if your estimation was more accurate. I would mean that there are 10000 * 100 * 100 = 100 millions of moodlers around the globe. Fantastic!

>Just as a suggestion, the first thing to do would be to remove useless features like the survey, wiki, and blog...

Great! It's interesting to see what modules are useless for you. No comments but to say that I disagree once more.

>And, before someone "suggest it", no I'm not going to do it....no time or interest.

Perfect! That's the constructive way! Absolutely! There is one saying in Spanish "to throw the stone and to hide the hand..." not sure if will have sense in English but that's IMHO one (wrong) attitude.

Ciao 微笑
回复Eloy Lafuente (stronk7)

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Steve Hyndman -

I really think that you're wrong (is that the word to express my disagree? tongueout ) with that estimation.

Yes, that is how most would express it...much better than using "liar" 眨眼 Of course, we both know where that reference comes from, don't we 眨眼

Last time we talked you said you weren't going to help me for 7 years...I was looking forward to a quite 6.5 more years 眨眼

Steve

回复Steve Hyndman

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Eloy Lafuente (stronk7) -
Core developers的头像 Documentation writers的头像 Moodle HQ的头像 Particularly helpful Moodlers的头像 Peer reviewers的头像 Plugin developers的头像 Testers的头像
... ah, that, yep, you can have a long way in store, for sure. 邪恶

Although, one more time, 100% unconnected with the discussion topic. Amazing persistence of habits. 眨眼

Ciao 微笑
回复Steve Hyndman

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Smallish Matt -

 if someone does decide to organize something like this, contact me and I will certainly help smile

This is very generous of you, Steve, as everyone knows there are plenty of open source developers looking for something useful to do, but very few people with your unique qualities to give them purpose and keep them in line!

It is great that you are willing to contribute something of such value to such an effort, when your team of developers has flocked to your call, please do remember us here and let us know how it is going.

回复Smallish Matt

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Steve Hyndman -

please do remember us here...

I'll do that Smallish, but try as I may, I can't think of a thing I should remember you (Smallish Matt) for...just drawing a big blank 微笑

Steve

回复Steve Hyndman

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Smallish Matt -
O I'm sorry, I wasn't expecting you to remember me personally, after all I am only a newbie to open source devleopment while I can tell from the tone and content of your posts that you have contributed very much to Moodle and other open source projects and could probably re-write Moodle to be perfect in a long weekend if you wanted to!

I was just hoping that you would let us know how your new project goes, as your team recognizes your burgeoning genius and gathers around you--maybe in 5 or 6 years of effort I could be of help in this project, but first of course I have so much to learn!
回复Steve Hyndman

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Samuli Karevaara -
"Concentrating on improving moodle.docs is a big waste of time...IMO. I would guess that less than 1% of Moodle users even know docs.moodle exists and of those who do know it exists, less than 1% of them actually use it."

Maybe frequently. But I'm sure more people peek at it from time to time. At least I appreciate it when some of the trickier gotchas find their way in to the Moodle Docs. I'm then cherry-picking the tips and spreading them locally. That's just one Moodle Docs user but hundreds of Moodle users being helped by the Moodle Docs.

Also, the wiki format seems to work nicely in a distributed effort in documenting any software.
回复Steve Hyndman

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Timothy Takemoto -

I must say I have never used the survey, wiki (not because I don't want the functionality but because the module is ng), or blog, or chat modules. Moodle could be lighter. However, perhaps others like different functionality?

This is a graph of the activity in the moodle.org forums, which may given an indication of the interest in the various modules. I have not included popular non-module functionality such as backup, messaging, and conditional activities.

What functionality is popular?
graph of module popularity

Tim

回复Timothy Takemoto

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

John Isner -
[the graph] may given an indication of the interest

I don't think we can equate forum activity with popularity. For example Quiz is extremely active because it is undergoing major changes and Tim Hunt does a great job of keeping everyone informed. Activities that are buggy or prone to tricky interactions with the server environment may show high interest because users are having lots of problems, not because they're popular. At the other end, Exercise and Workshop (where's Journal?) and possibly Glossary show little activity because they're moribund.

It would be interesting to plot Activities against the number of distinct users posting. Then (for example) we could adjust the Quiz ranking for Tim Hunt's posts and find out how truly popular Quiz is 微笑 (I think Quiz would still come out Number 1)
回复John Isner

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Timothy Takemoto -
I agree that the graph is indicates a mixture of complexity, bugginess and interest. I wish there were a more valid and continuous survey of community interest in modules. That would be socially constructive.

Tim
回复Timothy Takemoto

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Steve Hyndman -

The reason I don't use the default survey, wiki, or blog is not because I believe these "tools" are not valuable...it's just the ones in Moodle are not very good or useful...again, in my opinion.

In "earlier times" when I installed an instance of Moodle I did leave the wiki and survey available. I spent more time responding to questions and problems with the wiki than it was worth and when people see a "survey" they expect to be able to create a survey (like an end-of-course survey). In the end, I just started removing these so they are not even available to users...saves them frustration and saves me trouble responding to their frustration. I'll admit that I have never really used the Moodle blog...looked at it once and decided it was better to stick with WP for blogging purposes.

So, I do use these "tools" a lot...I use WordPress blogs extensively, I use MediaWiki (just like moodle.org 微笑) for one project, and I use the feedback module a lot for course surveys.

Steve

回复Steve Hyndman

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Don Hinkelman -
Particularly helpful Moodlers的头像 Plugin developers的头像
I do the same as Steve. I connect Mediawiki and Wordpress to Moodle and install the Feedback module (which is fabulous).

I would rather use the three standard Moodle versions, but I find they are not usable for students in versions 1.6-1.8. I am curious to see if they will be improved when I install 1.9.

On the Modules and Plugins database, I would like to see a ratings, reviews , and #downloads functions built in so we can see at a glance which modules are popular and well-maintained.
平均分: Very cool (2)
回复Alexandre Enkerli

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

John Isner -
Hi Alexandre,
On a more serious note, you might be interested in reading this very long discussion that took place this summer in the Quiz forum. It started when someone proposed a simplified user interface for the Quiz module. It seemed like it would be easy to do, but it turned out to be much more difficult then anticipated and the project eventually ran out of time. Features that you think can be safely ignored when simplifying an interface later turn out to be extremely important in certain common use cases that you failed to consider when brainstorming the simplified interface.
回复John Isner

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Alexandre Enkerli -
Looks quite interesting. Reminds me of some discussions I've observed (and/or participated in) with other dynamic Open Source projects. Developers and users discuss a number of possible implementations, many of those get dropped, some ideas rise to the top.
In this case, I was thinking about a much coarser type of simplification. An example of this would be a Moodle installation without all the modules which make Moodle so powerful.
I know many of these things have been discussed before. I'm just thinking about Moodle from the ground up­. At this point in its development, Moodle has a history in the sense that some things make more sense if put in context of older versions of Moodle. Everything is still useful, of course. But I now get the picture that some modules have been added to fulfil some specific requirements which have then been fulfilled by other modules.
While I was writing the reply that I eventually lost because of a sesskey issue, I finally understood that the "Text Page" resource had the formats (markdown, etc.) which are missing in the "Web Page" resource. Apart from the personal embarrassment of only realising this after several semesters of using Moodle as a teacher, there's an issue of apparent complexity for new users. What is the conceptual difference between a "Web Page" and a "Text Page?" Is this distinction still relevant in the way Moodle is implemented? If so, how can this type of distinction be conveyed to a newbie user as she uses those features?

So it's partly a personal exercise for me. How is Moodle built? How do things fit together? What, as a teacher/user, do I need to know to build courses efficiently? What do my students need to understand of the way Moodle works for the platform to be pedagogically efficient?

Call me crazy but I get this urge to build things, which is quite frustrating as my coding sk1||z are seriously lacking (and I have very little time available to improve on them). An advantage, though, is that I can potentially channel my energies into making tools make sense to me which, eventually, can help me help others understand these tools.

Maybe I should just do this by myself. I do prefer playing with others, though.
回复Alexandre Enkerli

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

A. T. Wyatt -
I think of a Windows example (which I am sure would be terribly hard to implement). As you use the double chevron to fully open a menu and select a new menu option, it "sticks" to the list. The next time you open the menu item, it is present.

atw
回复John Isner

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Don Hinkelman -
Particularly helpful Moodlers的头像 Plugin developers的头像
John wrote:
>>I worry about interfaces that try to hide inherent complexity because I haven't seen it done successfully.


Take a look at the Moodle Quiz Module. It has an excellent system for hiding complexity--called the Advanced Features button. As admin, I make the default settings and put them in "Advanced Settings". Then I train the teachers to configure the other 50% of the settings. We really love it. Less stress on the newbies and full flexibiltity for me or other adventuresome teachers. I would like to see Moodle do the same for other modules.
回复Don Hinkelman

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

John Isner -
Don,
I don't see a "Show advanced" in Quiz in 1.9, and frankly I am relieved not to see it! (However I see that Wiki does have Show advanced.)

My problem with hiding so-called "advanced" features is: How do we decide what is "advanced?" It can only by through a thorough analysis of use cases, and we do not have such a thing.
回复John Isner

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Ralf Hilgenstock -
Core developers的头像 Particularly helpful Moodlers的头像 Translators的头像
Hi Jon,

you can see the advanced features after you activated them in Website-Admin - Activities quiz-settings by ticking the options on the right side.

There is an other very interesting feature in the lesson module, while editing the settings of a lesson in your course you can define this settings as your personal defaults for this course that are used if you edit thesettings of the next lesson.

A combination of both feature hiding features behind an advanced button through administration and course related option to define personal default for the course will be great.
You can adopt simplicity on the one hand and flexibiliy on the other hand.
回复John Isner

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Don Hinkelman -
Particularly helpful Moodlers的头像 Plugin developers的头像
Hi John,

>>How do we decide what is "advanced?" It can only by through a thorough analysis of use cases...

It is very easy, because half of the Quiz features are very rarely used (password protection, IP address limitations for example). Just hide them. A teacher can still go and add them anytime by clicking on the "advanced" button. But new teachers are protected from the shock of seeing 20 settings, and instead have to think about only 10 or so.
回复Don Hinkelman

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

John Isner -
half of the Quiz features are very rarely used

It sounds like you have done a rigorous pseudo analysis 微笑

As an intellectually curious teacher, I would automatically click the Show advanced button to make sure there wasn't some important setting that I had missed, and I would find the extra click more annoying than seeing all the options to begin with. I would also be "shocked" by the presumptuousness of any site administrator who presumed to know more about quizzes than a teacher!

Again, I don't think that hiding things is a good way to make Moodle easier to use. Rather, we need better organization of Editing pages (e.g., the way settings are grouped and the way groups are labeled), and help buttons next to every setting. Thanks to Tim Hunt, I think Quiz sets the standard by which all other activities should be judged!
回复John Isner

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Don Hinkelman -
Particularly helpful Moodlers的头像 Plugin developers的头像
By the way, Tim Hunt is the one who made the Advanced button. And yes, I hope all teachers take a look sometime to see all the options. I don't think it is presumptuous for one person to choose what is hidden, because the hidden options are always available to any teacher to open and use at any time. The beauty of Moodle's Advanced button is that it is *configurable* and always open.

I do training workshops with teachers all over our area and believe me, first impressions are important. The authoring screen of the Quiz and any module needs to be well laid out, as you say, and basic functions highlighted.

Another example of good use of an Advanced button would be the Forum module. I would like to see more features added to the forum module--such as a polling feature integrated at the top of a forum (give an answer to a Choice-type question and then add comments in the Forum below). Along with the Forum ratings function, I would like to see these kinds of things put behind a configurable "Advanced" button.
回复Don Hinkelman

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

John Isner -
Don,
Jacob Nielsen, the human-computer interface guru, would describe the Advanced button as an example of a pattern called "Progressive Disclosure." The pattern resolves the tension between power and simplicity. He describes the pattern in this article. He says something that I find quite surprising:

You might assume that by initially focusing users' attention on a few core features, they might build a limiting mental model of the system and thus be unable to understand all of their options. Research says that these are groundless worries: people understand a system better when you help them prioritize features and spend more time on the most important ones.

So maybe it works 微笑 My only remaining concern is getting the right split between basic and advanced features. Nielsen writes

Regarding the first point, how do you determine which features the initial disclosure level should contain? Task analysis and field studies can give you insights into what people need, even if you're working on a new design. If you're improving an existing system, frequency-of-use statistics can help you prioritize the features. For a website, server logs tell you how often people look at different pages. However, you must supplement such analytics with observational usability testing to discern whether a page gets many hits because users want it or because they simply enter the page by mistake. For an application, you can get even more detailed usage data by instrumenting the code to record how often people use different features.

Ideally the admins who configures the Quiz module will determine the split based on feedback from quiz makers, since we have no statistics. At least I'm glad that Moodle does not hard-code the advanced features.
回复John Isner

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Don Hinkelman -
Particularly helpful Moodlers的头像 Plugin developers的头像
Hi John,

Thanks for Neilsen's insights on this question. I have no formal experience in interface design so this is helpful to read. From what I can catch, he is approaching this question from a top-down view--that is, using task analysis to determine initial features for global population and set that centrally. I like Moodle's approach which is more bottom-up, allowing local admins to make the selection according to their needs. My colleagues and work together every week and share materials/activities actively. We are very clear about the features we need for our school (but not what other schools need). For example, our pedagogical approaches focus on quizzes for review, training, and gaming. We do not use quizzes for testing. So all the quiz security features are superfluous. But I have a friend at another school who is intensively test-happy, and absolutely needs secure windows to prevent his students from "cheating".

Like you, I much prefer Moodle's configurability. If you go into Quiz Preferences in 1.8, you will see checkboxes for delegating a feature as "Advanced". We thus hide a) secure window, b) time delays, c) passwords, and d) network addresses. And change a lot of defaults as well--wonderful! Now maybe there is better way (tabs of features), but I like this way. Saves a lot of scrolling. 微笑
回复John Isner

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Tony Hursh -
You know, I could take Nielsen a lot more seriously if his own site weren't so BBU*. I mean, it's just a huge wad of (IMO) poorly-organized hyperlinks, mainly of the self-promotional species. It's practically impossible to find anything on there. 微笑



* A technical term I learned from a military training officer at one of the Madison conferences -- "Baboon Butt Ugly".

回复Tony Hursh

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Steve Hyndman -

Well, whether one agrees or not, he does give a reason that may account for why some may consider it BBU...and you don't need to look on his site to experience how it's practically impossible to find anything...just look at the "1990s search system" here on moodle.org to experience that 微笑.

Steve

回复Steve Hyndman

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Tony Hursh -
You might have a point if Moodle were touting itself as a state-of-the-art search engine or selling consulting services for search engine developers.

His home page is organized according to media type ("Alertbox", "Reports", "Film", and "Books") rather than than any scheme that might actually be useful to someone who was looking for information on a specific usability topic.

Within the Alertbox category, you see a giant list of 12 years worth of columns, with no apparent attempt to organize them by topic (and the titles are less than helpful, in many cases -- "Remote Control Anarchy"? What's that?).





回复Tony Hursh

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Steve Hyndman -

"Remote Control Anarchy"? What's that?.

Well, everybody knows what that is...

It's very similar to a "Global legacy role in the system context with various custom prohibit and prevent settings"

Duh...眨眼

Steve

回复Steve Hyndman

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Smallish Matt -
Yes that is true, with the one if one knows the definition of the words, the meaning is clear, while with the other, it could mean anything.

I for one would love to see Steve go through all the language in Moodle in and replace all the vague, imprecise language he can find with precise words that are well defined and (most importantly!) short and have few syllables!

For goodness sake sometimes Moodle seems like it was written by poets and philosophers rather than computer scientists!
回复Smallish Matt

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Steve Hyndman -

For goodness sake sometimes Moodle seems like it was written by poets and philosophers

...and a disciple is born smile

回复Smallish Matt

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Ralf Hilgenstock -
Core developers的头像 Particularly helpful Moodlers的头像 Translators的头像
Texts written by computer scientists are not better than texts from poets. Computer scientists write for other scientists mostly. Not programmer often don't understand this texts. Teachers and programmers that are two different worlds on different planets.

If a programmer writes a Moodle help file. He uses two or three sentences and expect that the reader knows a lot of things around the topic.
The teacher searches for an information about the context of use of a feature and a information how to use it.

A great example of a not helpful help text is the help file for the cloze text question in the quiz module. The file is not short. Its long. But it doesn't explain the main question of a reader: what is the structure I have to use to edit a cloze in a question. You can't understand the structure, because the grammar is not explained. A programmer will be able to understand the structure because he knows about such structures. But a teacher doesn't have this preknowledge.

An other example was (its changed now) the help file for ressource IMS CP. You couldn't understand this document without knowledge what is an IMS Content Package. But a normal teacher doesn't know what this is.

I don't think that 'short' is the best criteria. Short sentences: ok. Short words: ok. But you need some sentences to explain the context of the use of a feature and not only the feature.

And there are cultural differences between languages. I learned in the last months: American like it short, German like some explanations and a longer text.

I'm not a programmer, but German translator for Moodle.


回复Frances Bell

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Martín Langhoff -

Frances - I was a bit too brief, sorry. To clarify, I personally I think that

  • we need more work in the documentation, screenshots, walkthroughts, screencasts, and editing to bring it all together
  • and we need promotion of the documentation, 99% of the questions in forums can be answered with a "read this page"
  • good practices are also important - such as the student intro guide and instructor intro guide (and formal training!)
  • some things can be simplified, but frankly it's a lot harder than it seems
  • wizards are (usually) more of a problem than a solution (as discussed elsewhere in this thread)

But none of the above actually matters 眨眼 because it's just my opinion, and I'm not demonstrating it in action. I am not getting it done, it will be the doer that defines how it is done.

So I'd encourage people who really want to tackle it to just do it. I would go polish the docs, and take some of Joel Spolki's little tricks to do UI drafting, and apply them to some actual interfaces. We might end up with a gallery of UI sketches and people thinking about the trickly problems in there.

As the Quiz discussion shows, most of the time you cannot simplify away without thinking things through. So if this "thinking things through" happens and gets documented in design sketches, better doco, etc, it's a big win. Later we might decide to use them, or not. But it will have informed analysis and decisionmaking with good fact-based detail, which theoretical discussions lack.

That's all - I know it's the Moodle Lounge, but it can still be a lounge of doers 眨眼


In other words -- rather than say "I think A is more important than B", let the A fans get A done, the B fans get B done, and we'll move on to C and D in no time.

回复Martín Langhoff

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Ralf Hilgenstock -
Core developers的头像 Particularly helpful Moodlers的头像 Translators的头像
We have invested lots of time in printed manuals for Moodle in Germany. In the moment we are updating an admin manual for 1.9. (120 pages)
The teacher manual (160 pages) is now published in the third corrected and updated version (an english translation will be published end of November), a student manual (60 pages) is in the third edition. Addison-Wesley updated the German Moodle Praxisbook (600 pages) after twelve months. They sold all the books from the first edition after 11 months.
Half a year ago we published a learning DVD with 6,5 hours of small units (3 to 10 minutes) about most of the topics normally used.

We know that there are lots of users that say, we don't need more than help files or a wiki system. But we also heard, we need printed manuals. We have different types of users and different needs.
Lets do one thing and the other. There is not only one way.
回复Martín Langhoff

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Frances Bell -

Thanks Martin, that is pretty inspirational.

So non-developers like me could answer questions by linking to docs, and extending/ improving documentation as appropriate.

I enjoyed the link to Spolsky, his ideas are great, here is a lovely KathySierra post, with tips on sketchesand ‘rough’ mockups. In this chapter, Spolsky also talked about ‘imaginary users’ and I wondered if a gallery of these might be useful for developers – we could come up with an interesting range in the Lounge I am sure.

I take you point in the last sentence that each of us should get on with doing what we can before asking others to do something for us, butI feel sure that there must be some dialogue here that can be useful.

回复Martín Langhoff

Re: Moodle Lite (was: Viva Moodle 1.6)

Tabitha Parker (was Roder) -
we need more...
Could not have said it better. A showcase of various applications of the Moodle tools will not only teach people how to create quizzes, forums, etc, but will show diverse ways in which you can use these to achieve completely different outcomes, bringing more teaching experiences into your courses so that has to be good for students. wink
回复Timothy Takemoto

Re: Viva Moodle 1.6

Howard Miller -
Core developers的头像 Documentation writers的头像 Particularly helpful Moodlers的头像 Peer reviewers的头像 Plugin developers的头像
To be honest - our and other users I have spoken to, have found that certainly 1.8 is a good bit slower (we skipped 1.7). The users I have spoken to have been on the large side I would say.

Having said that the issue has responded well to throwing bigger, faster hardware at it but we did have a few sleepless nights when everything ground to a halt at first. So, if you are at all on the edge hardware wise you should plan for an upgrade.

Everything's a trade-off and what you get is all that fancy roles stuff which, once you get your head around it, gives a great deal of flexibility.
回复Howard Miller

Re: Viva Moodle 1.6

Martin Dougiamas -
Core developers的头像 Documentation writers的头像 Moodle HQ的头像 Particularly helpful Moodlers的头像 Plugin developers的头像 Testers的头像
Yes, roles in 1.8 (and 1.7) can really slow down a site with many courses. Unfortunately this didn't really come out during testing early this year.

That's why we've been spending so much collective effort on performance since then (especially MDL-11180 which is the main reason 1.9 has been delayed).
回复Howard Miller

Re: Viva Moodle 1.6

Timothy Takemoto -

Hi Howard

Speed is a  bitch. As I have moaned elsewhere my university did not take up Moodle and developed an online testing system all of its own. The in house testing system is okay but really pummells the servers so while it is running speed is of a premium.

Whether or not there is a competing system, however, for university wide implementations of Moodle one can expect the ability to throw hardware at the problem, but for teachers who have a moodle installation on some shared corner of the school server, getting more memory, more processor power is difficult.  

Moodle always was, or has it become, a institution-wide-ish, non shared server system. C.f Petra's comment on MDL-6905 "The problem is that Moodle does not work well on shared servers (?!) which means that not many people run it there and report bugs and even if they do developers do not have this setup of test servers. "[My surprise]

But even when not on a shared server...today I was in the office of another teacher at my uni who is setting up a moodle. She is using the latest 1.8 as an XAMPP (double p?) on her local machine. Her local machine is a dual core intel bought last year, but it was really slow. My 1.6 on my machine is fast, and fast enough (when the above mentioned testing system from hell is not running) on the university servers.

I wonder if a "turn off roles" switch might be possible, if it is roles that are causing the speed-down? But perhaps if I had roles I would realise I need them?

Tim

回复Timothy Takemoto

Re: Viva Moodle 1.6

Timothy Takemoto -
Apropos of my "minor quibble" above, while I was on my colleague's moodle today it took me ages to find the multimedia filters. It seems that ther are two "filter" submenus in that (nasty?) 1.7; admin javascript menu. I think that *administrators* do not need or like collapsable javascript menus. Give me a long page of html in which I can search any day.
回复Timothy Takemoto

Re: Viva Moodle 1.6

Howard Miller -
Core developers的头像 Documentation writers的头像 Particularly helpful Moodlers的头像 Peer reviewers的头像 Plugin developers的头像
It gets easier once you learn where stuff is in the tree... and there's a search.

It's not my favorite part of Moodle, but given the increase in the number of options it's hard to think of something better. Also note that roles allows only certain parts to be available (in certain roles) so that works more logically too.