I was little perturbed at the new BB peak. OK Blackboard peaks at semester start (and dips at Christmas/New Year) but the peak is higher than last year and Moodle does seem to have slowed its increase.
Any interpretations?
I have this Alexa comparison graph on my Netvibes desktop, and I have always been encouraged by Moodle's steady progress.
I was little perturbed at the new BB peak. OK Blackboard peaks at semester start (and dips at Christmas/New Year) but the peak is higher than last year and Moodle does seem to have slowed its increase.
Any interpretations?
I was little perturbed at the new BB peak. OK Blackboard peaks at semester start (and dips at Christmas/New Year) but the peak is higher than last year and Moodle does seem to have slowed its increase.
Any interpretations?
Moodle does seem to have slowed its increase.
Any interpretations?
Roles, performance problems, increased complexity, roles,...oh, did I say roles . Typical users like simple, intuitive systems...Moodle post 1.6 is no longer simple or intuitive and it is very buggy. Now people are more likely to look at it, scratch their head, and move on to something else.
I have several people using Moodle 1.6...they like the simple interface and have no interest in moving to the complexity of the "new Moodle"...and I have no interest in moving them there. However, they and I realize they can't stay at 1.6 forever, so some of them are making other plans. After over three years of use, one example of the result is here, in big blue print on the frontpage: http://www.modellabschool.com/online/
I do realize many around here will read this, see it as a threat, and become defensive...that could be another reason for the decline...the tendency to view problems as threats instead of seeing them as opportunities and becoming proactive about addressing them.
I would expect to see the slowed increase to turn into a steady decline.
Steve
Teaching is more complex these days. It used to be teachers controlled the class and directed things. Students followed. Not any more. There are dozens of roles in my program--seminar leaders, parents, alumni, sister school partners, guest lecturers, quiz-makers, clowns, and marking assistants. It is natural that Moodle, with a collaborative and constructivist focus, would take this road.
If Moodle loses market share in the teacher-controlled classroom world, I would think that is a good thing.
If Moodle loses market share in the teacher-controlled classroom world, I would think that is a good thing.
Teaching is more complex these days. It used to be teachers controlled the class and directed things. Students followed. Not any more.
The world does need "idealists" as well as "realists"
So, your supposition is that Moodle up through 1.6 was/is a "teacher-controlled" platform and the roles you listed ("seminar leaders, parents, alumni, sister school partners, guest lecturers, quiz-makers, clowns, and marking assistants") is supposed to have somehow "transformed" the online learning environment?
I never knew "guest lecturers, quiz-makers, clowns, and marking assistants" could make my classes more collaborative...I'll have to check into that. You say you have "dozens" of these roles in your program...as a "realist", I can't imaging what they would be, but I'm very intrigued...don't just tease us with 7, in the interest of my own education, please do list them.
Oh, by the way,...I would have responded earlier, but I kept getting this strange "database connection error" and lately it seems to take up to 2 minutes to go from the moodle.org homepage to Using Moodle or the Lounge...but it's probably just me...I'm sure it has nothing to do with "system complexity and performance issues" 
Yes, I do make my points with a little "sarcasm", but it's intended in good humor and isn't personal.
Steve
The world does need "idealists" as well as "realists" 
http://docs.moodle.org/en/Development:Roles#Scenario_brainstorming
I see you are playing the "idealist" role!
In an ideal world, we could tell everyone to shut up, be happy with the 1.2,1.3,1.4,1.5,1.6 feature set, freeze development, and make our rainbow-stable Moodle.
So, your supposition is that Moodle up through 1.6 was/is a "teacher-controlled" platform and the roles you listed ("seminar leaders, parents, alumni, sister school partners, guest lecturers, quiz-makers, clowns, and marking assistants") is supposed to have somehow "transformed" the online learning environment?
Yes, up through 1.6 Moodle had basically three fixed roles--admin, teacher and student. Each of these roles had hard-coded permissions to do things. Students could not assess each other for example. Students could not make quizzes and deliver them to their peers. I had to make work-arounds to do that--such as making completely new courses and putting each student as the teacher role of each new course.
I can remember back starting in Moodle 1.1 when schools started requesting all kinds of new roles--"I need a parent role that can look at only the 'x' part of my site" or "I need a tutor role where the assistant can only grade the 'y' activity but not the 'z' activity."
The definable role feature of Moodle introduces incredible flexibility to create these new roles and any other role a school would need. Rather than add a set of pre-defined roles (parent, tutor, etc.), Martin and crew decided to allow us users design our own, since it was likely impossible to predict exactly which permission configuration a particular school would like or not. Fortunately, if you do not want a new role, you can ignore it all, and just use the defaults.
I never knew "guest lecturers, quiz-makers, clowns, and marking assistants" could make my classes more collaborative...I'll have to check into that.
You might want to look at some writings on the ecologies/communities of learning. In my field, it is called "Second Language Socialisation" which is now challenging the more cognitivist "Second Language Acquisition" theory. I find the writings of Leo van Lier especially helpful.
You say you have "dozens" of these roles in your program...as a "realist", I can't imaging what they would be, but I'm very intrigued...don't just tease us with 7, in the interest of my own education, please do list them.
Yes, of course. Here in Moodle Docs is more complete list of role scenarios that various people put together as the "roles" function was developed...http://docs.moodle.org/en/Development:Roles#Scenario_brainstorming
Oh, by the way,...I would have responded earlier, but I kept getting this strange "database connection error" and lately it seems to take up to 2 minutes to go from the moodle.org homepage to Using Moodle or the Lounge...but it's probably just me...I'm sure it has nothing to do with "system complexity and performance issues" 
No, it is not you and it is not the complexity issue. I am sure it is a software or hardware configuration issue on your server. I have two servers, both cost the same--US$1500. One can handle up to 1000 simultaneous users, one chokes up after only 12 users. Why is that? I found the problem to be a mix of OS, memory, processor, and Apache/MySQL settings. Seriously, Steve, check out the Servers forum & docs, and check out my report on our server settings that allowed us to handle 300 test-takers all doing a heavy audio-listening quiz at the same time.
Sarcasm is fine! Some people think it is the same as cynicism. But I don't think so. If you were a cynic, you wouldn't be here!Thanks for the detailed response Don.
I think with any major change, you have to do a very careful cost/benefit analysis and in my opinion, the cost in terms of complexity, confusion, problems, scalability, degraded performance, etc., by far outweigh any benefits of this new role system. Of course, that's just the opinion of one "bitterly pessimistic" user (no reference to you here).
The initial question here asked for interpretations of why Blackboard is peaking and Moodle's increase is slowing...we seem to disagree on that interpretation, but that's okay.
And in reference to the database connection errors and extensive time to connect to a "classroom", I wasn't talking about my server...my server is running fine with 1.6 installs...I was talking about moodle.org.
Okay...now I should probably go over to the Using Moodle course and try and help those people who are locking themselves out of their site with this cool feature, (I think there has been at least two pleas for help since this thread started this morning) but, then again, maybe I'll just leave that to the more "optimistic" among us...yes, good natured sarcasm again
Steve
> It used to be teachers controlled the class and directed things.
That seems to be the rule where I am.
> If Moodle loses market share in the teacher-controlled classroom world, I would think that is a good thing.
That is the world I live in, so I am sad about it.
Tim on 1.6 forever it seems
Tim on 1.6 forever it seems
Moodle 1.8 works fine for standard teacher-student sites-the default roles it ships with are the usual teacher/non-editing teacher/student/guest.
You don't have to add roles or modify roles if you don't want to. In Moodle 1.9, you basically have a full spreadsheet application for your gradebook...in my work directly with faculty at Cal State, two of the most highly requested features by faculty, were greater roles flexibility, and a more powerful, flexible gradebook.
Moodle 1.8 works fine for standard teacher-student sites-the default roles it ships with are the usual teacher/non-editing teacher/student/guest.
You don't have to add roles or modify roles if you don't want to. In Moodle 1.9, you basically have a full spreadsheet application for your gradebook...in my work directly with faculty at Cal State, two of the most highly requested features by faculty, were greater roles flexibility, and a more powerful, flexible gradebook.
Actually, can you tell us a bit more about the gradebook features? I guess we have 1.8 at Concordia because we do have roles but the gradebook seems pretty much unchanged from the version we had before.
(Yes, I know I can read release notes. But I'd like a quick explanation of the feature.)
(Yes, I know I can read release notes. But I'd like a quick explanation of the feature.)
Best explanation is here:
http://test.moodle.com/
Register and see what you can do in the 1.9 Gradbook. Rubrics, Outcomes, category formulas, import/export, edit any item, item comments, etc. More, see what you can't do, in years of working, devevloping, preseting, and comparing gradebook, this is the best I've seen.
http://test.moodle.com/
Register and see what you can do in the 1.9 Gradbook. Rubrics, Outcomes, category formulas, import/export, edit any item, item comments, etc. More, see what you can't do, in years of working, devevloping, preseting, and comparing gradebook, this is the best I've seen.
Thanks a lot!
Apart from display glitches and some elements which haven't been translated, it does seem like the system is functional and can be very useful for many a constructivist teacher. In fact, because Quebec's school system uses a grading system fairly similar to the one demonstrated, it could make Moodle a very useful tool for school teachers here. In fact, since there's a lot of public debate about the new grading schemes, Moodle could make many of these things clearer, especially for parents.
Thanks again!
Apart from display glitches and some elements which haven't been translated, it does seem like the system is functional and can be very useful for many a constructivist teacher. In fact, because Quebec's school system uses a grading system fairly similar to the one demonstrated, it could make Moodle a very useful tool for school teachers here. In fact, since there's a lot of public debate about the new grading schemes, Moodle could make many of these things clearer, especially for parents.
Thanks again!
My perception was that you were pretty p***ed off before the introduction of roles, in fact my memory is that you only returned here after roles were introduced (no connection obviously!!). I think the complexity point you raise is interesting but you don't really serve your argument by what you say. The graphs are not about 'sales' but hits so the steady state of Moodle does not support your argument/ prejudice/ whatever since the 1.6ers are still accessing web pages. We could have an interesting discussion about a 'simpler' version of Moodle but is that really your point?
I find the explanation of the BB surge somewhat more convincing.
My perception was that you were pretty p***ed off before the introduction of roles, in fact my memory is that you only returned here after roles were introduced (no connection obviously!!).
You asked for "interpretations", I give you one, you don't like it, so you bash me...real class act Frances.
So, let me give you a little back...what do you really do around here Frances other than hang-out in the lounge and ask provocative questions? When was the last time you actually "helped" someone over in Using Moodle. Yes, I do "express my opinion" around here, and I'll continue to do so when I feel like, it (social constructivism, right?) whether you like it or not, but I also help as well...in the forums and even more these days through email.
Now, do you want to continue the bashing or do you want to give us your interpretation?
Steve
I see from the general "tone" of your rely, you don't really like being personally attacked...imagine that
Now, go back and read my posting that you replied to and you "may" see that I made no reference to you, or anyone what-so-ever...I gave an opinion about a "piece of software" (that, by the way, you asked for) and you replied and made it personal.
Of course, that wasn't at all unexpected. I did write in that very post: "I do realize many around here will read this, see it as a threat, and become defensive."
There is a lesson here.
Steve
> I would expect to see the slowed increase to turn into a steady decline.
I don't know how you funded your move to Blackboard but a Moodle decline seems unlikely until there is a viable open source alternative.
How are DOKEOS/Claroline and Atutor coming along, I wonder?
According to Alexa, Moodle is still way out in the lead.
Tim
Blackboard pushed out a maintenance release last spring, which changed the name of all WebCT installations to Blackboard. Perhaps this is now being reflected in Alexa as administrators update their WebCT installs and students login in their newly blackboardized WebCT installations.
At K-12 Open Minds on Oct 11 in Indianapolis, I'm going to talk about some major new Moodle installations and game-changing features we will be releasing to the Moodle community.
At K-12 Open Minds on Oct 11 in Indianapolis, I'm going to talk about some major new Moodle installations and game-changing features we will be releasing to the Moodle community.
Actually, Blackboard is an easy target and not really the competition any more. Blackboard is a big corporation with heavy legal and marketing overhead that will doom innovation (at least that is my bet). So let's forget about the blip (which may be simply a transfer of WebCT clients as Michael suggests) and look out of the box for the real competition.
The real competition will emerge elsewhere. Moodle needs to move rapidly in two areas:
The real competition will emerge elsewhere. Moodle needs to move rapidly in two areas:
- Social networking: any time now we could see something like a Google Schools, Facebook LMS, or a MySpace Institution Version that will leap over the course-focused Moodle way of education management. There are some promising SN modifications in the pipes that I have heard about (maybe including Michael's hints?), so this could become a Moodle strength.
- Content sharing: Teachers need something that will save them time. They need an easy way to make labor-intensive interactive content that is includes both GPL and commercial stuff. That is why we so concerned with international standards (ie: IMS), so sharing is possible.
Possibly you could add to this listing a mechanism to support aggregated assessment of student learning. Many types and levels of educational institutions are facing terrific pressure to show that students are actually learning what the curriculum purports to teach. This requires data to be collected from the lowest levels (individual students) and aggregated at many stops in-between to produce evidence that the "system" is working (or not!).
Anything that makes capturing data and reporting results easier or more effective (for the student, the teacher, or the administrator) will be attractive.
Caveat! This comment is not meant to start any arguments about the place of testing and assessment. It is merely to point out that it is of great interest to a lot of people and something that could impact Moodle. Actually, I believe this is in development to some degree, but I haven't yet seen it for myself.
atw
Anything that makes capturing data and reporting results easier or more effective (for the student, the teacher, or the administrator) will be attractive.
Caveat! This comment is not meant to start any arguments about the place of testing and assessment. It is merely to point out that it is of great interest to a lot of people and something that could impact Moodle. Actually, I believe this is in development to some degree, but I haven't yet seen it for myself.
atw
Anything that makes capturing data and reporting results easier or more effective (for the student, the teacher, or the administrator) will be attractive.
Yes, definitely. This is the real winner. Saving time or giving important data that is too difficult to collect manually will attract teachers and admins especially.
And remembering Steve's comments, I want to change my earlier position...
I am always a fan of the newest and most exciting. But for an LMS with millions of students and teachers, we need stable, carefully-tested new features.
Yes, definitely. This is the real winner. Saving time or giving important data that is too difficult to collect manually will attract teachers and admins especially.
And remembering Steve's comments, I want to change my earlier position...
Old: Moodle needs to move rapidly in two areas.
New: Moodle needs to move slowly in two areas.
New: Moodle needs to move slowly in two areas.
I am always a fan of the newest and most exciting. But for an LMS with millions of students and teachers, we need stable, carefully-tested new features.
Should we start a roadmap thread?
Don said:
Of course, I'm completely biased as I tend to get overly excited about some features and to dream about what will come next. I strongly feel that dreaming, forward-thinking, enthusiasm, and excitement have appropriate effects in many cases, including in teaching and in use of learning tools.
The way I see it, the most effective approach is to have open and honest discussions about both our dreams and the practical consequences of implementation details. Doing so, we can get "the best of both worlds." In practical terms, we can get feature-frozen stable software versions and sandbox-fun development versions. Many development projects do exactly this and the outcomes seem quite positive.
In my experience, "dreamers" and implementors can very efficiently collaborate on software development. For instance, a "dreamer" can think about what features the program should have without worrying too much about the ease of implementing those features. The implementor can code without worrying about things like usability and usefulness. (The implementor can occasionally serve as the "voice of reason" at key moments during the development process.) If both of them create a roadmap together, the result can be stable software which remains relevant to users. In fact, dreamers can also collaborate on the documentation, train users on how to use the software, serve as advocates for the software, and even find new uses for the software. All of these are important things to do.
One important feature distinguishing Moodle from Blackboard is the fact that enthusiastic teachers are in fact sharing ideas about the system. The fact that some of us occasionally dream up possible Moodle features does make Moodle quite different from Blackboard. The constructivist approach behind Moodle does change many things about the way Moodle can be used in teaching situations. While some colleagues certainly have issues while using Moodle, the very structure of Moodle makes it easy for teachers to choose features they want to use. In my experience, it makes Moodle relevant for teaching.
A disclaimer of sorts. As I'm not a coder, I haven't been able to contribute directly to Moodle's software development. However, my enthusiasm for Moodle seems to have had some impact in a few contexts. I won't presume that my Moodle dreams have had a direct impact on Moodle development but my enthusiastic use of Moodle does seem to have had a limited but positive impact on colleagues at Concordia. Dreaming about Moodle has certainly helped me exchange ideas with interesting people, think about important academic issues, and improve my teaching.
Don said:
I am always a fan of the newest and most exciting. But for an LMS with millions of students and teachers, we need stable, carefully-tested new features.Seems to me that many of us are, like you, excited by new possibilities. This kind of enthusiasm even sounds like a common feeling among most people in educational technology, open source development, and geek culture. While we should probably be careful not to let our "early adopter" tendencies take the better of us, it sounds like this excitement is an asset for Moodle projects, not a liability.
Of course, I'm completely biased as I tend to get overly excited about some features and to dream about what will come next. I strongly feel that dreaming, forward-thinking, enthusiasm, and excitement have appropriate effects in many cases, including in teaching and in use of learning tools.
The way I see it, the most effective approach is to have open and honest discussions about both our dreams and the practical consequences of implementation details. Doing so, we can get "the best of both worlds." In practical terms, we can get feature-frozen stable software versions and sandbox-fun development versions. Many development projects do exactly this and the outcomes seem quite positive.
In my experience, "dreamers" and implementors can very efficiently collaborate on software development. For instance, a "dreamer" can think about what features the program should have without worrying too much about the ease of implementing those features. The implementor can code without worrying about things like usability and usefulness. (The implementor can occasionally serve as the "voice of reason" at key moments during the development process.) If both of them create a roadmap together, the result can be stable software which remains relevant to users. In fact, dreamers can also collaborate on the documentation, train users on how to use the software, serve as advocates for the software, and even find new uses for the software. All of these are important things to do.
One important feature distinguishing Moodle from Blackboard is the fact that enthusiastic teachers are in fact sharing ideas about the system. The fact that some of us occasionally dream up possible Moodle features does make Moodle quite different from Blackboard. The constructivist approach behind Moodle does change many things about the way Moodle can be used in teaching situations. While some colleagues certainly have issues while using Moodle, the very structure of Moodle makes it easy for teachers to choose features they want to use. In my experience, it makes Moodle relevant for teaching.
A disclaimer of sorts. As I'm not a coder, I haven't been able to contribute directly to Moodle's software development. However, my enthusiasm for Moodle seems to have had some impact in a few contexts. I won't presume that my Moodle dreams have had a direct impact on Moodle development but my enthusiastic use of Moodle does seem to have had a limited but positive impact on colleagues at Concordia. Dreaming about Moodle has certainly helped me exchange ideas with interesting people, think about important academic issues, and improve my teaching.
Don - good analysis! I do agree that BB is no longer the main concern. I've just been to the NZ moot and it was a treat really. So many good things happening, migrations underway, ideas, new modules/plugins/extensions like mushrooms after the rain. Exciting.
A really noticeable thing is that all the questions coming from the audience were complex and deep, showing people are not only using it, but understanding a lot about "how things work" and engaged in the thought process behind it. In-cre-di-ble stuff.
(OTOH, being a presenter is getting harder! Gotta be prepared for an audience that will ask complex questions looking at what you are showing from many angles... I'm still in "wow" state.)
In terms of "what the threats are today" -- I don't know if I agree that SN & content sharing are threats:
- They look more like opportunities that we are focusing on -- you have to see what's happening with Moodle Networks in NZ and elsewhere...
- IMS "specs" are an interesting avenue, specially if they do end up as industry standards (that is, being widely implemented and compatible with themselves). After talking with MD and Eloy, I'll attend the IMS-CC workshops in NZ in Nov to be Moodle's voice. In the meantime, Moodle's backup format is already implemented by other tools (see eXe).
- The SN juggernauts aren't interested in a frontal attack or a takeover of this space - they'd rather interoperate with other platforms, and we are seeing lots of interest in interop with Moodle. See the Facebook API, and Catalyst's plans to integrate with GoogleApps.
As the phrase goes...
We are confronted with insurmountable opportunities
In terms of the issues Steve mentions earlier, I have to say that after the smooth 1.4/1.5/1.6 run, yes, roles was a big leap. We agree - like a bad boy, 1.7 broke a lot of toys. But the 1.8/1.9 releases are bringing back the polish big time (I do hope my accesslib patches don't add too much trouble!). And such cycles will probably repeat themselves -- you can't make an ommelete without breaking eggs. We do as much as we can to smooth things but you have to look at the phenomenom with a wider perspective.
While you look at it, remember that you can always keep running an older version like v1.6 and wait a bit longer. That's what we did - the Moodle installs we run where stability>features stuck with the improved 1.5 we have until things were mature with 1.8 + the performance patches. That is , until quite recently...
These slight oscillations in the balance between breakneck dev pace and stability are inevitable on a project that has ~300K SLOC, and a rate of change of ~100K per major release. Anyone who claims to have the cure should demonstrate it in practice. Lead a project of similar scale over a few years and show the world how it's done, or at least join the test tean and put a ton of work helping the process
That's the beauty here. There's always stuff you can personally do to help the project - see the essay at http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html and read where it talks about Bill Gates -- I'm sure we can all put in a few hs of work for every flame we've posted to show we are better than that.
[Awareness of the social dynamic is such a great thing to help break from it!]
Shirky's advice seems good for the most part (thanks for linking to this, by the way -- I've read lots of Shirky's stuff, but had somehow missed this one).
I've got to disagree with him, though, when he says that reading is the best way to learn. Useful as a starter, yes, but I don't think you can fully understand how this stuff works unless you participate, any more than you can become a musician simply by reading about it (or a coder simply by reading a book, for that matter).
Fortunately, this is a problem that goes away in time. The generation coming up will know how these communities work in their bones. It's an exciting thing to watch.
Hello again, everyone, by the way. I've been away for a few months, due to some new responsibilities at work and some serious health problems for my wife (those seem to be resolved now, thank goodness).
We gave 1.7 a miss, but 1.8 is pretty sweet.
I've got to disagree with him, though, when he says that reading is the best way to learn. Useful as a starter, yes, but I don't think you can fully understand how this stuff works unless you participate, any more than you can become a musician simply by reading about it (or a coder simply by reading a book, for that matter).
Fortunately, this is a problem that goes away in time. The generation coming up will know how these communities work in their bones. It's an exciting thing to watch.
Hello again, everyone, by the way. I've been away for a few months, due to some new responsibilities at work and some serious health problems for my wife (those seem to be resolved now, thank goodness).
We gave 1.7 a miss, but 1.8 is pretty sweet.
I've been resisting chiming in here- but can't anymore. I've been a staunch moodle advocate for some time, particularly in North Carolina, and at various Community College conferences. What I've noticed in doing training (mostly for newbies) is that the complexity has increased - while at the same time, we've seen very little efforts to make more elegant solutions.
I feel like a ham saying this, since i've done little to help develop moodle, but it FEELS like some small changes could do well to streamline certain interfaces. For example, to turn a course on or off you have 3 options:
[checkbox] Make course available (implies yes or no)
Make course available [drop down list with yes/no or on/off] (i think this is the current design)
Make course available yes
no (radio buttons)
Now these three options SEEM pretty much the same, but they are not. A drop down requires significantly more mental and physical effort (2-3 times more) to understand and to use. Not only can you not see the options by scanning over the form, but to make a selection requires a click hold move release option instead of the simple click that the other two use.
If you multiply this type of seemingly trivial thing across the thousands of controls in moodle, it becomes an overall factor in complexity of the tool.
Additionally, these things can tend to be based on the creative (or lack of) spark in the individual(s) responsible for a given module. For example, when quick grading of assignments came out I was overjoyed. It's amazingly easy to zip thru HUNDREDS of assignment - read, give feedback and grade, hit the "grade and go to next" button (or whatever it's called) - so each submission for the teacher is one click (apart from actually giving the grade and feedback). Compare this to grading hundreds of forum entries, which is about 3x the work - i will give cash from my pocket for a change to this - I have 90 students in a moodle class now, and grading forums is a big 'ol pain in the butt! I hate and dread it, but want the work and feedback available to everyone in the class- and don't have the admin rights to do anything custom.
You can also find in places where there is a button to show/hide advanced options, and I really feel like this gives the best of both worlds. You need and want those options for power users or specific needs, but they DO clutter and confuse newbies and basic users.
So kudos to everyone who keeps pushing this stuff forward and improving - my hat's off to you (at least when I'm wearing one). Kudos also to those who stop for a minute and say, "do we really need this?" or "can we make this a bit more elegant, with less controls, less scrolling, and less clutter- but still accomplish the same thing"? Therein is true beauty!
d.i.
Hi d.i,
I also like the trend to placing an advanced options button. (just hit the wrong button on my browser and erased my very carefully worded reply). In short, I have a love hate relationship with most setup, options or updating screens. I love that it is all in one place (usually) but hate that there can be so many options to consider.
I want a "save" button at the TOP of every setup/option/update screen, so the user can accept the defaults. Or if there are fields like blank required data, then put them at the top with a button immediately following that saves the page using the rest of the default settings. Note to developers, don't worry that it appears out of the natural logical order, such logic is not shared by the user of this button.
A consistent looking button, maybe a round button with the same label that catches the eye. Keep the advanced buttons and the save button at the bottom. This creates an easy "Lite" version, by any other name.
Stole this idea from that little check off button used in a Moodle install, one of the great improvements to the install package. Of course we could make it complicated for the developers. We want a "Save Lite" button at the top, a "Save regular" button at the bottom for intermediate (start and end dates kinds of stuff), an "Advanced options" button handy without scrolling down and maybe even a "All options" button (for the real hard core tweakers).
Oh yes, this spicy thread was about Moodle/Blackboard comparison. Good thing this is the social forum or someone would have a legitimate gripe about me being off topic. It is a BEAUTIFUL Fall day at my house, the leaves are close to peak color and I think I will take the neighbor's dog for a walk before suiting up for work.
Best to all. - Chris
I also like the trend to placing an advanced options button. (just hit the wrong button on my browser and erased my very carefully worded reply). In short, I have a love hate relationship with most setup, options or updating screens. I love that it is all in one place (usually) but hate that there can be so many options to consider.
I want a "save" button at the TOP of every setup/option/update screen, so the user can accept the defaults. Or if there are fields like blank required data, then put them at the top with a button immediately following that saves the page using the rest of the default settings. Note to developers, don't worry that it appears out of the natural logical order, such logic is not shared by the user of this button.
A consistent looking button, maybe a round button with the same label that catches the eye. Keep the advanced buttons and the save button at the bottom. This creates an easy "Lite" version, by any other name. Stole this idea from that little check off button used in a Moodle install, one of the great improvements to the install package. Of course we could make it complicated for the developers. We want a "Save Lite" button at the top, a "Save regular" button at the bottom for intermediate (start and end dates kinds of stuff), an "Advanced options" button handy without scrolling down and maybe even a "All options" button (for the real hard core tweakers).
Oh yes, this spicy thread was about Moodle/Blackboard comparison. Good thing this is the social forum or someone would have a legitimate gripe about me being off topic. It is a BEAUTIFUL Fall day at my house, the leaves are close to peak color and I think I will take the neighbor's dog for a walk before suiting up for work.
Best to all. - Chris
I want a "save" button at the TOP of every setup/option/update screen, so the user can accept the defaults. Or if there are fields like blank required data, then put them at the top with a button immediately following that saves the page using the rest of the default setting.
Just a note-the YUI supports autosave (ala gmail), we put this in for the assessment module we made with Intel--IMO it's a feature that would be ideal in forum, essay, and assignment, etc.
Just a note-the YUI supports autosave (ala gmail), we put this in for the assessment module we made with Intel--IMO it's a feature that would be ideal in forum, essay, and assignment, etc.
Hi Michael,
Wonderful how sometimes Moodle evolves one piece at a time, where a practice is implemented one or two places and then seeps throughout the program as a best practice. Thanks for pointing out assessment.
Don't forget Lesson (my most used module) There is the "use this lesson as the default" setting, another wonderful existing feature that would be enhanced with a save button at the top. Enhanced meaning save time for a user who as figured out what they want.
I could go back to MoodleDocs and mention in many tips the hotkeys (ala Wordstar) in a browser that jump to the bottom of a page. However, looks like I am unaware of the cutting edge as usual, such as autosave you mentioned.
And thank you and your team for all your efforts. Best - Chris
Wonderful how sometimes Moodle evolves one piece at a time, where a practice is implemented one or two places and then seeps throughout the program as a best practice. Thanks for pointing out assessment.
Don't forget Lesson (my most used module)
I could go back to MoodleDocs and mention in many tips the hotkeys (ala Wordstar) in a browser that jump to the bottom of a page. However, looks like I am unaware of the cutting edge as usual, such as autosave you mentioned.
And thank you and your team for all your efforts. Best - Chris
At MoodleMootNZ07 MD briefly mentioned the idea of using wizards in Moodle - this sounds like it could be the answer to many prayers:
Welcome to this Moodle site. You are logging in for the first time. Your role is "teacher". Are you:
Can this be set up as roles? (Don't shoot me for asking; I don't want to think about how much work this could cause someone...)
Welcome to this Moodle site. You are logging in for the first time. Your role is "teacher". Are you:
- An absolute beginner teacher who wants to see practically nothing and live in blissful ignorance of the near limitless options available
- A teacher with some LMS experience who wants to use a few features but is not ready for the full functionality
- An experienced online teacher (or someone who just must have it all) who wants every whizz bang feature and then some
Can this be set up as roles? (Don't shoot me for asking; I don't want to think about how much work this could cause someone...)
Just posted a comment on another thread about the concept of "Moodle Lite." (BTW, is there a specific reason there isn't a direct link to a forum post if it doesn't have children?) The wizard idea is quite good and it does go quite well with the roles implementation.
Seems like the general point is, no matter how good software may be implemented, some users need some degree of hand-holding. Many of us may hate wizards, simple menus, and lite versions but there's something to be said about some users just needing the most basic features without having to deal with the whole platform. Given Moodle's modular implementation, it all makes a lot of sense.
Seems like the general point is, no matter how good software may be implemented, some users need some degree of hand-holding. Many of us may hate wizards, simple menus, and lite versions but there's something to be said about some users just needing the most basic features without having to deal with the whole platform. Given Moodle's modular implementation, it all makes a lot of sense.
No comment on all the comments, but I'd just like to point out that this graph has absolutely nothing to do with users of Moodle or Blackboard, or their relative merits as tools for teachers.
It's a graph of *accesses* to blackboard.com and moodle.org, and even that is most likely not accurate because the stats are from those who have installed the Alexa browser plugins.
It's a graph of *accesses* to blackboard.com and moodle.org, and even that is most likely not accurate because the stats are from those who have installed the Alexa browser plugins.
Thanks for that Martin. Having consulted the site http://www.alexa.com/site/help/?index=12, I found the graph somewhat less useful (though the New Year differences are still amusing).