How Do I Do That?

How do I get students registered, and paid up, without losing them first?

 
Picture of N Hansen
How do I get students registered, and paid up, without losing them first?
 
It says this forum is about thinking out load (sic) so I am going to do that here and hope someone can think back.

I'm about to move into the "stable" (not beta) phase of my hieroglyphs course. In anticipation of that, I have been examining how students will enroll. I had some serious concerns about how the standard course block takes students on a non-informative and dead-end route to nothing when they click on a course that requires payment and they are not already a registered user at the site and they try to enter as a guest.  I did away with the course block, and created an HTML block that links directly to the courses description page. But that still doesn't solve the problem that site registration must occur before the student can pay for the course.

I've got two ideas. One is to hack the login page so that it only shows the guest button if the course the student is trying to access actually allows guests. This will force people to register at the site, and then they will be able to pay afterwards.

The second idea is to modify the description on the course categories page to indicate that site enrollment is necessary first. This would be helpful to have if the person were to come across the page through a search engine. I still worry about losing people by time they pay, or it being confusing for them to return to the page where they pay. Ideally, when they register for the first time, the confirmation/welcome email would contain a link to the payment page so that they wouldn't have to seek it out. But that would mean the email would have to be modified depending on how the person got to the course. Again, not an ideal situation either.

What do you think of these ideas? And do any of you have any other clever ideas about handling this? As the saying goes, if a person has to click more than twice to get somewhere, chances are they won't.

 
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Picture of N Hansen
Re: How do I get students registered, and paid up, without losing them first?
 
Never mind...just tested it and I see it does take me to the payment page...
 
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Picture of N Hansen
Re: How do I get students registered, and paid up, without losing them first?
 
Actually, I'm really not as dense as the above posts might make me seem...All this confusion was due to a bug, bug 5941. I've got it working now, albeit with the settings set to the incorrect ones in order to work around the bug.
 
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Picture of Chardelle Busch
Re: How do I get students registered, and paid up, without losing them first?
 
Well Nicole, you don't seem dense, just a little crazed wink.  (Thanks for pointing out the typo.)

You bring up again the old/continuing problem of registration/payment.  The PayPal enrollment is fine for enrolling/paying for one course with a set fee.  But it would be nice to have other options: a "membership" type of enrollment, enrolling in more than one course at a time, an "account" page where students can see what they've paid for, when things expire, etc.

You and I have talked about this before, did you ever look into coding for a better payment scheme?  Like you, I would like to see something developed under the Moodle code as opposed to something like aMember.

Could you please report back to us when Petr gets the fix for the bug you reported into cvs?  It looks like that's one that we will need to be sure and get fixed as soon as possible.
 
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Picture of N Hansen
Re: How do I get students registered, and paid up, without losing them first?
 
I've set up a page in Moodle docs where we can brainstorm something and then once we have a cohesive idea of what we want/need we can get a price for it.
 
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Picture of N Hansen
Re: How do I get students registered, and paid up, without losing them first?
 
Chardelle-I've started adding some content to the wiki. Perhaps you can post something in the news forum so that we can get more people to contribute to the page.
 
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Picture of Chardelle Busch
Re: How do I get students registered, and paid up, without losing them first?
 
Okay, a wiki page in moodle docs has been created to discuss this topic. 

Please see it here: http://docs.moodle.org/en/Improved_Payment_Plugin

It is obvious that a better payment/enrollment scheme is needed for those of us using Moodle to charge users for use.  Just do a search in this course for "paypal" and you will get 216 results.  Although aMember was a good start it has problems.  1.  It was not developed to be used specifically with Moodle.
2.  The plugin created for Moodle is not being maintained and those using it may have problems upgrading. 

Please add your ideas/thoughts to the above page for what you would like to see developed.
 
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Don
Re: How do I get students registered, and paid up, without losing them first?
 
Chardelle, As one who is 1/2 way down the aMember path I fully agree and will do what we can to help with this.  aMember has some nice features but I bet they could be built into a Moodle Membership Mod.  All we need is a good coder or two to jump in.
 
I for one would be willing to help fund this development if a group was interested in sharing the expense.
 
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Picture of Chardelle Busch
Re: How do I get students registered, and paid up, without losing them first?
 
Hi Don,

Thanks, I will keep you in mind. 

Perhaps Nagarajan will give us a quote when we get finalized what features we would like to see.
 
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Picture of elearning edu
Re: How do I get students registered, and paid up, without losing them first?
 

Hi Don,

Amember integration with Moodle for a client gave us  the following experience:

Client wanted

1. The site must be able to handle subscription-based membership, via PayPal, for access to specific courses. For example, for $19.95 a month, the subscriber will have access to course A.

2. The site must also be able to handle subscription-based memberships, with a
one-time fee. For example, the subscriber must pay a one-time fee of $450.00 PLUS $90.00 per month in order to access course B.

3. The site must be able to grant the subscriber immediate access but bill them at a later date. For example, users are given immediate access to course B upon subscription; however, they are not actually billed until 30 days later.

4. Users must be able to sign-up for a free 7 day trial, after which they will receive a series of email content, in sequence. No username or password will be issued for this 7 day free trial.

Subscribers will be receiving different bonuses, depending on if they use a free trial or sign-up immediately. If the user immediately signs-up, they will receive a book, CDs, and a DVD. If they use a free trial, they will NOT receive a book; but they will receive MP3s of the CDs, the ability to watch the DVD online; (how user will receive MP3 CDs, by post or downloadable digital content, etc.,) and on the 4th email, they'll be given another opportunity to sign-up and receive the full bonus package.

Though the work can be done with Paypal it was suggested to us that amember with verisign payment may be attempted.

We first worked with a free Moodle enrollment plug-in for aMember. The ZIP file includes documentation. The plug-in does require some integration (The supplier estimates 10-20 hours maximum.)  However we wanted to do our own estimation of time and work. We noted that the php codes are Encoded/hardcoded, and we Cannot see its source code.

Since with the exisiting free plugin we are  unable to access time and work we requested the client to  purchase the the amember application, thinking that
we will get the source code without encoding.

With the licenced amember we tried to do a remote integration of amember with moodle.  With server login details we 
found  moodle installed there, but  did not find amember installed there.

Then we try to install Amember. We uploaded the files,try to install amember.

We are stuck at:
Fatal error:
Unable to read 12866 bytes in /home/celive/public_html/amember/rconfig-zend.inc.php on line 0
The file is encrypted,

we requested our client to install amember with further request to Check with their host whether ioncube and zend optimizer installed on their server.
If installed, requested them to  get the path or how to configure it to our amember or some information to make ionCube detect and decrypt the scripts.
Due to this nature of complication client after some time requested us to derfer it for sometime.

When we proceed with amember integration we have to look at these issues.

I noted a mixed reaction to amaember and amember is not free and we have to pay for licence.  How much the program is hard coded and how difficult/easy to hack the source code?

In the meanwhile we also found the working of money booker simple, easy and smooth for installation.  Money booker can be used at its simplest level to the extend of integrating with a shopping cart by simple steps.  A good manual is available from moneybooker site.

Nagarajan

 
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Picture of elearning edu
Re: How do I get students registered, and paid up, without losing them first?
 

Hi,

Though I did work for my clients integrating different payment gateways with moodle according to their business logic, I will restrict my work done in this area with one paypal work only.

Client 1 - Running a series of workshops.  His requirement for using Paypal are:

48 hours prior to any workshop, those who are Confirmed should have a confirmation  email sent to Them. Those who are on "stand by" are either moved Into the workshop or their account is then credited The fee that was charged. Participants should see the List of workshops that they are signed up for and know Whether they are on standby or confirmed.

We need to have a default class size of 20 Participants but also need to have

different classSizes from time to time.

When a participant cancels their RSVP,

the first Person on the STANDBY list will move up to the open Spot.

Business logic

The above statement, is not telling the logic for - When user coming to waiting

list and When the user is not in waiting list. Let me know the exact business logic For When we have to move the student to "waiting list" stage.
When and based on what, we have to decide the user is in "confirmed stage" or

in "Waiting list"We should put a "LIMIT" on who can

sign up to be confirmed. This is commonly 20 and

sometimes 16 or 24. We might also have 12 if we have that  many choices.
The default would be 20.

At the 48 hour window, the 20 who sign up would be confirmed and the others would be refunded their
credits. Suppose stand by limit is 20. There are 35 students enrolled.
48 hours after Course commencement(please decide whether it

should be After or Before course commencement) , first 20 students will be

confirmed and allowed to attend the course, rest 15 will be kept as "Guests"

and their credits returned, an email notification will be sent to students as

they are in waiting list against unenrollment.

If any confirmed student unenrole himself/herself from the course, then

immediately, student who has top prority from "Guests" list will be informed over email that, he/she can enrole themself to course  again. so student re-enrol to the course.

Once Guests list is prepared, new  enrolement to the course is Restricted.
Please confirm whether these enrolment restriction is done automatically or
manually by admin.

I just quoted a job done for a client using Paypal.

I leave it for the business community to further refine it.  Next time I will come with another case again using Paypal.

Nagarajan

 
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Picture of N Hansen
Re: How do I get students registered, and paid up, without losing them first?
 
Chardelle-It's been fixed, but unfortunately I discovered another backdoor entry bug-bug 6053.
 
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Picture of patrick Frickel
Re: How do I get students registered, and paid up, without losing them first?
 
Hi All,

As a business user of Moodle, I would be willing to contribute to this project once we have the costings, time estimates, etc.

The user creation, pay offsite, come back register for a course - wait for email, etc - has been a source of frustration for our clients and the one we get the most stick for. Once they are in...no problem.

We are looking for (aren't we all) well though out simplified process that doesn't have the "client" jumping through 10 hoops to get to the course.

But I see that even the big guys don't get it right...try buying Microsoft on-line learning....GOOD LUCK....there are so many blind alleys and hoops you could become the blind hoop jumping Olympic champion! before you get on a course.

Does anyone know of a great example of elegant course registration and payment on the Internet...maybe that is where to start...deconstruct their business rules and flow and use this as the basis of our method...
 
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Picture of N Hansen
Re: How do I get students registered, and paid up, without losing them first?
 
I've given this more thought in the last few days. What I think I am going to do for the time being is bypass the normal course category/course pages and use other aspects of Moodle to recreate these in a user friendly way. Instead of using the standard course block, I'm going to create an HTML block and create links to the courses in the way I want them to be in that block. The link to free courses will link directly to those courses. The link to paid courses will link to a resource (which I may or may not hide in one of Chardelle's topic 100 blocks, or else place it in my main menu as well). At the top of this resource and at the bottom will be links saying something like "The course fee is XYZ. To enroll, you must first register or login to the site if you are already a registered user." In the middle will be the full course description. This way, non-registered users will have the full information about the course without having to log in. They also will be informed what they must do first to get into the course, i.e. login first if they are already register, or register if they aren't. I will make this link go to the course view page for the particular paid course. If they aren't logged in, it will take them to the registration page, and if they login, they will be taken directly to the enrol page for that course, which will only have a brief message and the payment buttons (rather than the full course description). Those who need to register first will go through the normal registration process, and then automatically taken to the payment page.

Therefore someone coming to my site for the first time will go through the following steps to enrol:

Come to site
See link to course
Click on link and read description of course
Click on link to start registration/payment process
Complete site registration
Be taken directly at the end of registration to the payment page
Make payment, be enrolled in course

I've tested this, and I'm pretty happy with the ease of payment part. We've got to get people registered first so there is no way around these steps, unless there was a way to combine the registration and payment steps more tightly.

The biggest dilemma would be how to make a user friendly way of getting to the course for both already enrolled students and for people who aren't even registered on the site. I'm not sure if it can be fixed without completely separating out the two things entirely. Perhaps the My Moodle page could be used by the already enrolled. But it is too rough still that I'm not sure if I want to use it yet.

 
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Picture of patrick Frickel
Re: How do I get students registered, and paid up, without losing them first?
 
We don't have payment gateway but we did try to make booking a course easier, have a look at this client site we worked on and see if anything is useful:

http://www.alchemexacademy.com/

Cheers,
Patrick
 
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Picture of Noel Roberts
Re: How do I get students registered, and paid up, without losing them first?
 

Hi Everyone,

I have been monitoring the discussion.  I need some help integrating a paymentgateway to my site: http://e4ys.com

Please reply to my email so we can go back and forth more easily: jah_managod@yahoo.com.

I am in China and PayPal etc is insufficient because here in China credit cards are not used or trusted so much.  It is a cash-n-carry society and  so the ATM is King.  The banks are all owned by the government and they have teir own payment systems.  I need to link in one of these systems (NPS http://www.nps.cn/English/default.htm ) and I need some help.  Do I use the External Datanbase feature in the Enrollments section? In fact I am really new at this.  Is there anyone who could lend a handwith this?

Thanks,

Noel

P.S. My

 
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Picture of Noel Roberts
Re: How do I get students registered, and paid up, without losing them first?
 

Hi Everyone,

I have been monitoring the discussion.  I need some help integrating a paymentgateway to my site: http://e4ys.com

Please reply to my email so we can go back and forth more easily: jah_managod@yahoo.com.

I am in China and PayPal etc is insufficient because here in China credit cards are not used or trusted so much.  It is a cash-n-carry society and  so the ATM is King.  The banks are all owned by the government and they have teir own payment systems.  I need to link in one of these systems (NPS http://www.nps.cn/English/default.htm ) and I need some help.  Do I use the External Datanbase feature in the Enrollments section? In fact I am really new at this.  Is there anyone who could lend a handwith this?

Thanks,

Noel

P.S. My

 
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