Server specs. question for Moodle migration (will this fit our requirements?)

Server specs. question for Moodle migration (will this fit our requirements?)

Lindsay John發表於
Number of replies: 5

Hi,
We're migrating to Moodle, and would like some advice on server specs.  I need to provide my superiors with statistics (users, concurrent access,...) to justify the specs (I myself need some assurance that these specs will fit our requirements).

Our student population is ~14000.  There are roughly 200 courses to be migrated in the initial phase (much more growth expected later on).  With respect to quizzes, the class size of courses with quizzes can be as much as 1500 students (quizzes are text based for now, no video/audio yet).

INTENDED SERVER SPECS (we'll most likely use Dell servers): Acquire two servers, one for the Database (MySql), and one for Moodle.  Each server will have:
4GB RAM
Dual Xeons, > 3.0 GHz
SCSI HDD - total capacity (depending on RAID): 74GB or more.


Here are my questions:
1. Concurrent access:  I know that the maximum number of concurrent users (which still gives users an 'acceptable' response time) will vary depending on the type of user activity at that point in time.  Will the stated configuration support 1500 concurrent users accessing the same quiz (without grinding the server to a halt)?  If not, what's a more accurate figure?  On our current LMS, large quizzes are staggered during the day, so there may actually be just 300 users at a time taking the quiz.

2. With respect to using two servers, are there any components which should be beefed up (e.g. use more RAM on the Moodle (Apache) server; use a faster processor on the database server...)?  Also, am I missing any essential components?  I wish we could simply say 'buy the biggest we can afford', but everything needs to be justified.

3. O/S: We were planning to go Linux. However, a couple posts suggest "go Windows until you have proficient Linux support staff".  For now, just one or two have dabbled in Linux.  I'm now learning it myself.  Is it too ambitious to assume that I'll be well versed in Linux by August?  Should we go Windows for a while?  If Windows, should any server components be beefed up or changed to support our requirements?

Thanks guys.

Lindsay John,
Systems Administrator, e-Learning Technologies,
Campus IT Services
The University of the West Indies, St. Augustine, Trinidad W.I.

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In reply to Lindsay John

Re: Server specs. question for Moodle migration (will this fit our requirements?)

Visvanath Ratnaweera發表於
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> 1. Concurrent access: I know that the maximum number of concurrent users (which still gives users an 'acceptable' response time) will vary depending on the type of user activity at that point in time. Will the stated configuration support 1500 concurrent users accessing the same quiz (without grinding the server to a halt)? If not, what's a more accurate figure? On our current LMS, large quizzes are staggered during the day, so there may actually be just 300 users at a time taking the quiz.

Just to make sure: We are talking about the capacity of the server (or servers) alone and assume that the network can deliver!

You are right. The server load depends very much on the type of activity being used. IMHO Chat is the worst then comes Quiz. So your "1500 concurrent users accessing the same quiz" sounds too optimistic for me. If your real figure is 300, that has a much better chance. Either way a PHP accelarator will be a _big_ boost.

> 2. With respect to using two servers, are there any components which should be beefed up (e.g. use more RAM on the Moodle (Apache) server; use a faster processor on the database server...)? Also, am I missing any essential components? I wish we could simply say 'buy the biggest we can afford', but everything needs to be justified.

RAM is clearly the most effective investment for better performance. Since you are talking about going beyond 2 GB make sure that your hardware and the operating system support that much. Also simply "having" more RAM is no guratee, you have to assign them work, like caching whole pages or querries!

There are lot of pointers in this forum. You seem to have gone through it, therefore I'm not citing them here.

> 3. O/S: We were planning to go Linux. However, a couple posts suggest "go Windows until you have proficient Linux support staff". For now, just one or two have dabbled in Linux. I'm now learning it myself. Is it too ambitious to assume that I'll be well versed in Linux by August? Should we go Windows for a while? If Windows, should any server components be beefed up or changed to support our requirements?

Building up a productive system for 14'000 users is a respectable job, whatever operating system you choose. The usual advice you get here is _not_ "go Windows until you have Linux support", rather "Windows is OK for evaluating Moodle, trial installations, etc. but Unix for more demanding environments".

With 14'000 users you belong to the latter! IMHO it is naiv to believe "one or two Linux dabblers" will stand the test.

The strategy "go Windows until you have Linux support" doesn't convice me either. From which direction do you expect Linux support? I know at least one institution which has planned a server for a similar size, started on Windows and now hitting the performance ceiling already with 5000 users! The inevitalble migration has started. The total effort of the administrators and the suffering of the users, I don't see any justification for that.

Talking about "migrating" courses: Also consider a phased out transition of courses (and users). The way the hardware keep on improving and the way software demands follow, you might want to start with a less demanding server infrastructure and plan it so that you can add/upgrade later.





評比平均分數:Useful (1)
In reply to Lindsay John

Re: Server specs. question for Moodle migration (will this fit our requirements?)

Howard Miller發表於
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Some thoughts... some experience, some mere prejudice 微笑

Firstly until you have actually run Moodle for some time you just don't know what you are going to need. You won't know the usage patterns or what activities will be used and when etc etc. So, the main thing is to leave your options open for expansion - don't buy anything too expensive and consider the possibility that you might have to buy a bigger machine at some point or even better split your Moodle installation. If you have more than one Moodle site then you can run them on different machines.

I personnally would NOT run MySql and Moodle on seperate machines. Firstly because it becomes much simpler to secure (just turn off networking in MySql) and it will be much more efficient as you don't have all that network latency to worry about.

To answer your questions...

1. 1500 concurrent access - are you sure? We have 16,000 registered users and the most we have ever seen logged on 'concurrently' is around the 80 mark, the average being much lower.

2. Buy the biggest you can afford 微笑 I'm sure that you don't need me to tell you that lots of RAM and disk I/O make the biggest differences. Spend your money on fast disks and good RAID cards.

3. Don't go Windows. Setting up Moodle on Linux is a breeze with the sort of knowledge you can get in an afternoon. I get depressed when I think about installing Moodle on Windows - it is *much* trickier. People will argue about which distro to use for ever but my $00.02 would be to consider SuSE. Why? The installation and administration tools are excellent and will keep you away from the tricky command line and configuration file stuff for quite a long time.

EDIT:
Reading your post again, if your concurrent usage really is that high you *may* want to consider looking at Postgres as your database. It is much more tunable for high volumes than MySql (see http://docs.moodle.org/en/Arguments_in_favour_of_PostgreSQL for more information). The downside is that it requires rather more administration skill and is not quite as well supported (ie, you will probably be living on Moodle version behind).
評比平均分數:Useful (3)
In reply to Howard Miller

Re: Server specs. question for Moodle migration (will this fit our requirements?)

Eric Henson發表於
I am considering SuSE Linux for my Apache/PHP server that will host Moodle for about 120 schools grade 4 - 12.  I am going to be splitting my Apache and MySQL servers into two very powerful Dell PowerEdge 2950's with 4 GB RAM each and SCSI arrays.  Do you feel that SuSE 10.1 is adequate for a system of this size?  Should I be using SuSE Linux Enterprise Server 10 instead of the free version of 10.1?

As far as how many users that will be using my system at the same time?  I am unsure because I am still in the planning stages and how much this system will be used would just be a guess at this point.
In reply to Eric Henson

Re: Server specs. question for Moodle migration (will this fit our requirements?)

Rick Boyce發表於
SuSE 10.1 would certainly be adequate if your confortable maintaining it.

The primary reason for purchasing a Linux OS, especially one your buying with the server, is for Professional Support and the guarentee that you can get drivers that are compatible with the hardware your buying. Dell offer SuSE Enterprise Linux and RedHat 4 EL on the 2950s Factory Installed. The advatage of this over choosing and installing your own distro is that you know that when you get the server it has a build that runs well of the architechture of the system, it has compatible device drivers installed and working correctly, and more importantly that if you have a serious problem you can call Dell and get support for the hardware and software.

If you need that level of support / assurance (and if your running a system for 120 schools, I'd say it's certainly worth the extra expense) then its worth purchasing an Linux distro that you know works with the system your buying / getting Linux pre-installed.

On the other hand, if your happy setting the system up yourself and are confident that you can fix any problems that come up along the line without needing technical support then you can save a little cash and go with a free distro - the majority of linux distros built with server tools make excellent web servers, they'll have no problem coping with such an installation. If you go down this route you could channel the extra cash back into the hardware...
In reply to Rick Boyce

Re: Server specs. question for Moodle migration (will this fit our requirements?)

Arnor Kristjansson發表於
I agree with the point that you need to be comfortable maintaining it so I'm moved to offer this short story:

A while ago I bought a new server. Along the new hardware (IBM 345 w/6 10000 RPM SCSI HDs) I bought a copy of Suse Linux Enterprise Server (SLES) and even had a certified SLES guy at the local IBM dealer set it up for me.

I ran yast regularly to update it from SUSE's (later Novell's) servers and everything seemed fine until I suddenly found the machine's IP address listed on RBLs. It turned out that the fully patched server was compromized (read: hacked) in a way that allowed spammers to send mails through a PHP mail script to any address they liked. I asked the SUSE guy about it and he just shrugged so me and a friend did a backup of the pertinent files being served out of that server plus the MySQL databases and wiped it clean, installed Debian Sarge + linux-vserver and have never looked back.

Updating is as simple as apt-get update && apt-get upgrade and even though we're using the current stable branch of Debian (which is not exactly "bleeding edge") the version of PHP is newer than the one offered with the copy of SLES I bought plus we're able to install packages quite easily without having to drive down there to install CDs (apt-get install .

This has made me a firm believer in "dynamic distros" such as Debian and its derivatives. It just works...for me.