My opinion re the usernames policy of the Moodle.org community forums

My opinion re the usernames policy of the Moodle.org community forums

by Penguin Razzmatazz -
Number of replies: 13
I think that the username policy of the Moodle.org community forums is problematic, and would like to see it change for the better.

  • It is common in the English language Moodle.org community forums for users to choose their real names as their usernames.
  • Furthermore, this practice is actively encouraged by the moderators and zealously defended by some of the more active contributors, as I've recently learned first hand.
  • Moreover, it has been told me, by a couple prominent community members, that there is a penalty involved for those choosing not to provide their real names, namely their questions won't get the same attention as questions posted by users who display their real names.
  • Moreover, harassment over a non-real username is tolerated or even encouraged by the moderators: my username has been explicitly put down by a community member, and when I called this member out for it, my post was removed, whereas the insulting post remained intact.

It is my opinion that these attitudes and practices are harmful, and are incompatible with the principle of online privacy, which is a value I expect every public collaborative website to uphold.

For comparison...

The Wikipedia privacy policy states: "Because we believe that you shouldn’t have to provide personal information to participate in the free knowledge movement, you may [...] Register for an account without providing an email address or real name.", and if you browse through the revision history page of an arbitrary Wikipedia article, observing the usernames, you're likely to see a stark contrast to the real names practice of the Moodle.org community forums. For instance, according to the Wikipedia revision history page for the entry "Moodle", it has been edited by such users as Dirkbb, Shibboleet, NichtAllwissender, Smg3d, The Mysterious El Willstro, and others.

The reddit privacy policy states: "Your username is public, and it doesn’t have to be related to your real name", and the reddit code of conduct reiterates: "Rule 5: You don’t have to use your real name to use Reddit". If you browse any subreddit, including those that are expertise-oriented, and observe the usernames, you'll likely find a stark contrast to the real names practice of the Moodle.org community forums. For instance, the currently top question of the /r/AskScience subreddit was asked by a user named This31415926535, and answered by agate_, arcedup, tuctrohs, 96385, nietbeschikbaar, and others. The medical Q&A subreddit /r/AskDocs is currently moderated by users Dvdrummer360, luster, Dr_Strange_MD, and PokeTheVeil, among others.

I would like to see the Moodle.org community forums follow the online privacy trail of Wikipedia and reddit.

Average of ratings: Not cool (2)
In reply to Penguin Razzmatazz

Re: My opinion re the usernames policy of the Moodle.org community forums

by Marcus Green -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
"namely their questions won't get the same attention as questions posted by users who display their real names"
The attention I apply is influenced by the plausibility of a chosen username.
Average of ratings: Very cool (2)
In reply to Marcus Green

Re: My opinion re the usernames policy of the Moodle.org community forums

by Randy Thornton -
I concur with Marcus on this. Speaking for myself, I take into account the person's name, country, any url to their site, when they created their account, and anything else I can gauge by what they write, including their language ability and level of Moodle experience. All these pieces of information can help me to better answer questions.

Doing online support to people from all over the world, many of whom speak English as a second language, have different versions of Moodle, different server setups, different levels of technical and pedagogical experience, and different communication abilities, is very, very difficult. And it is made more difficult without any helpful communication aids such as facial expression, tone of voice, clear explanations, knowledge of Moodle specific vocabulary, screenshots, etc. Every piece of useful information I can glean helps - and a real name is a factor, but it is not the main or only factor.

Of course, some people may have reasons to not use their real name: maybe they have privacy concerns, maybe they have concerns their employer or coworkers or competitors (or teachers) will see their questions and posts, maybe they have been doing this for decades and everyone knows them by their handle everywhere else, maybe they are making a political statement on the nature of former slave or colonialist or patriarchal naming conventions, maybe they are twelve years old and think it's cute.

Whatever the reason, others have no way of knowing that. If you don't use a plausible real name, you may or may not be a real person. There are already plenty of real people with real names here who are seeking help and honestly need it. If you give me reason to doubt, I move on to someone who doesn't. We are volunteers here: anything you give us to help us help you is, well, helpful. If you show us that you have made a good faith effort to investigate and figure out your issue, more people are more likely to spend their own time to help you out. Using a real name is one subtle sign of good faith (which is not to say that not using one is necessarily a sign of bad faith.)

This isn't policy. This is how the community works. In some communities, the convention of using handles / nicknames / aliases is the norm. But not in this community. And while this norm clearly originates in the wider world of education, it is strongly re-enforced by the community tradition of face-to-face Moots where we meet each other, and by the way that veterans of the community treat others.

So, when Howard or others, moderator or not, politely asks someone if they would consider using a real name, they are pointing out that our community has its way of doing things which over time we have found beneficial. You are free to ignore that way, but you should be aware of it.
Average of ratings: Coolest thing ever! (9)
In reply to Randy Thornton

Re: My opinion re the usernames policy of the Moodle.org community forums

by Richard Oelmann -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
While fully agreeing with this, I do have an additional comment to add.
Moodle is a 'real world' community as well as an online one (unlike those mentioned previously). Many of us do or have worked together, met up at conferences, etc. Making that connection is much harder behind anonymous names. We are not generally a contentious community (unlike some parts of other online forums), and knowing who exactly you are talking to helps many of us provide the appropriate support rather than the much more generic responses often found in some other communities. I do not believe this community (and therefore Moodle itself) would have developed the way it has had a policy or practice of anonymity become the rule at any stage.
Average of ratings: Very cool (5)
In reply to Richard Oelmann

Re: My opinion re the usernames policy of the Moodle.org community forums

by Penguin Razzmatazz -
Wikimedia meetups have been occurring regularly for years.

I have yet to see evidence to sustain the belief that the Moodle.org support communities would have developed worse had they adhered to the principle of online privacy (or that now that they have developed to their present status, they would suffer from adopting a policy of online privacy similar to those of Wikipedia and reddit), but I have seen evidence to support the belief that an international community of knowledge behind a pubic collaborative website can thrive while fostering online privacy.

I have yet to see a convincing explanation why Moodle is in some fundamental way different to other online communities as to invalidate the rationales behind online privacy. I believe that every rule has exceptions, but I doubt that the Moodle.org support communities form one of those special cases that demonstrate that sometimes upholding online privacy is not a good idea.
In reply to Penguin Razzmatazz

Re: My opinion re the usernames policy of the Moodle.org community forums

by Richard Oelmann -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
Neither have I seen any evidence to suggest that the community would have developed any better had that privacy rule been adopted - in fact in counter to your suggestions around wikipedia and reddit, there are many views and studies which suggest anonymous platforms such as Facebook have cause untold harms. Examples of how other communities have chosen to operate can be found in both directions.
I do not have an academic study as evidence supporting the community's approach, but while anecdotes are not data, you have been given the personal experiences and thoughts of several very experienced members of the community, all of whom have many years worth of contributions and 'particularly helpful moodler' awards to their names.
I'm sorry you do not feel that the community is a safe environment and that you need to push for greater anonymity here, but that, as you can see, is not the experience of those who use the site regularly.
There are other options for Moodle support which do have greater levels of anonymity, such as Stack Overflow, if you prefer to make use of those environments.
Average of ratings: Very cool (3)
In reply to Penguin Razzmatazz

Re: My opinion re the usernames policy of the Moodle.org community forums

by Howard Miller -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers
What policy?

As the perpetrator of this, I would like to comment that this is complete overreaction and nonsense. I asked if you would consider using your real name. I didn't say it was obligatory, I did not say it was policy, I did not hassle you, I did not suggest there was any penalty. You have in no way been harassed. I very much resent the implication. 

To save the casual reader the effort, I said...

"On a side note... I don't suppose you'd consider changing your profile to reflect your real name (I'm guessing it isn't at the moment)? It's nice to know who we're talking to"

Clearly, terrible abuse and threats cleverly hidden in those few words wink

What I did say was that I would not tolerate the original discussion (in the General Help forum) going massively off topic to discuss your unhappiness with my comment. You could have taken that up with me personally, in a PM or here in the Lounge. 

As it's a complete waste of my time and blood pressure, I have nothing more to say on the matter. 
Average of ratings: Very cool (3)
In reply to Howard Miller

Re: My opinion re the usernames policy of the Moodle.org community forums

by Penguin Razzmatazz -
I mentioned four bullet points. Not all of them refer to you.

The message that you quoted, which you addressed to me, falls under the second bullet point "this practice is actively encouraged by the moderators". In a forum that values online privacy a moderator would not request user to change their username to their real name. In fact, I consider any request addressed at a user to change their username, not matter what to (except in cases of blatantly offensive usernames), as impolite. If I asked you to change your name from "Howard" to "Peter", it would be an inherently rude request, no mater the phrasing this request would be couched in, because your name is none of my business, and it doesn't affect me in any way. But there's more to it. There's a difference between a request made between equals to a request made by a person of authority (such as a forum moderator) to a person lower in the hierarchy (such as a forum user). A request from a person of authority carries the undertones of a demand.

The other bullet point from my list of four bullet points that directly involves the moderators of this forum is the fourth one: "harassment over a non-real username is tolerated or even encouraged by the moderators". I remind you that a user popped up in the thread that started all this, and wrote to me: "I too found your pseudonym annoying." Maybe "harassment" is too strong a word to describe this enunciation; call it rudeness, then. No, it is not a "terrible abuse", as you put it, but it is, certainly, an unwarranted slighting. You, as a moderator whose goal, as you wrote me in a private message, is "to keep the forums a pleasant place to be", not only did nothing to reproach this person for this slighting, you (or possibly Mrs. Cooch; I have no way of knowing what happened behind the scenes) took down my reply to this user, in which I called him out for his rudeness. Later you informed me in a private message that you "have no interest whatever in whether you are offended or not".

Finally, the moderators are also implicitly involved in the third bullet point: the social penalty on those users not using their real name. I believe that the volunteer contributors in this forum have no obligation to answer questions, and they don't need to answer to anyone and explain why they didn't answer a given question. However, I do expect, in a forum that upholds the value of online privacy, that if a user proclaims that they are going to discriminate against other users based wholly or partly on the other user's username, this proclamation will receive the same treatment from the moderators as any other proclamation of intent to treat users deferentially based on irrelevant factors, such as gender and nationality.

I don't think that the fact that the usernames appearing in the Moodle.org forums are real-sounding is a coincidence. Based on the examples of Wikipedia and reddit, I think this would not be the case if people were choosing their usernames truly of their free wills. I think there are social forces at work that influence the users of this forum to choose their real names as their usernames. And these social forces are clearly acting in a way that is inconsistent with the value of online privacy, which I think all public collaborative websites should uphold.
Average of ratings: Not cool (4)
In reply to Penguin Razzmatazz

Re: My opinion re the usernames policy of the Moodle.org community forums

by Dan Marsden -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Plugins guardians Picture of Testers Picture of Translators
The official Moodle.org site policy is here:
https://moodle.org/mod/page/view.php?id=7080

I have also often suggested to users that they may want to change their user profile name - like Howard I also prefer to engage with "people" rather than "persona's" in the forums, but I do not avoid helping or sharing my knowledge just because of the users profile name... and I know that Howard does not either.

The policy is clear - moderators do not delete posts due to the username in use (unless of course the name itself is inappropriate.) - of course there are other policies than indirectly affect a users name - copyright/trademark related etc... eg you couldn't use the user name "NZ Moodle Partner" - because that would have the potential to mislead others...

There are no "penalties" described in the official policy covering usernames, however moderators/community members give their time for free - it's up to them how and who they engage with - some may ignore posts because they don't like the picture in someone's profile... - personally I'm not a fan of cats - no matter how many times my kids beg me to let them have a cat... I'm definitely a dog person.

I think we've gone as far as we can here - keep in mind that our site policy does have this statement.
"Fake identities created on Moodle.org for the purpose of criticism will not be tolerated"

Let's move on to more productive conversations - Howard (and others) have stated - it's fine for you to keep your username as is.
Average of ratings: Coolest thing ever! (9)
In reply to Penguin Razzmatazz

Re: My opinion re the usernames policy of the Moodle.org community forums

by Marcus Green -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
"harassment over a non-real username is tolerated"
Could you quote the text you considered to be harassment?
In reply to Marcus Green

Re: My opinion re the usernames policy of the Moodle.org community forums

by Dan Marsden -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Plugins guardians Picture of Testers Picture of Translators
I don't think we need to go there and I don't think that's necessarily productive. wink

There was an unfortunate misunderstanding on policy - which has been addressed now. I'd suggest we flag this thread as "locked" and if we want to split off any further broader discussion about the "offical policy" rather than the misunderstanding on how the policy is interpreted lets do that on a separate thread.
Average of ratings: Cool (4)
In reply to Dan Marsden

Re: My opinion re the usernames policy of the Moodle.org community forums

by Penguin Razzmatazz -
What are the reasons for locking this thread? You mentioned two:

  1. That there was a a misunderstanding that has been addressed. What misunderstanding? On whose part? How has it been addressed? Rereading you previous message in light of your claim of a misunderstanding, I now realize there may have indeed been a misunderstanding - on your part - of the points I have raised in this thread. So let me set the record straight:
    • I've never tried to claim that the policy of conduct of this forum mandates that moderators delete posts due to the username in use.
    • I've never tried to claim that the official policy sets penalties on certain types of usernames.
  2. That you disagree with the opinion I have expressed. Is this a sufficient reason for locking threads in this forum?
Average of ratings: Not cool (2)
In reply to Penguin Razzmatazz

Re: My opinion re the usernames policy of the Moodle.org community forums

by Dan Marsden -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Plugins guardians Picture of Testers Picture of Translators
You felt harrassed, and that penalties were in place due to a misunderstanding of the intent of the moderators and a misunderstanding of what official policy actually is. I think that has been cleared up now?

I think there is still potentially value for discussing the "real" documented policy I linked to above but I think it would be more productive to do that on a separate thread rather than continue the discussion here.
Average of ratings: Coolest thing ever! (1)
In reply to Penguin Razzmatazz

Re: My opinion re the usernames policy of the Moodle.org community forums

by Howard Miller -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers
Let me tell you all a little (true) story that I think might illustrate a point here. It's absolutely not aimed at anybody here - real name or otherwise (really!).

Several decades ago I was hacked off with working in IT and, to cut a long story short, I ended up as the manager of a high-end audio store. Now it's one of those business were customer service is paramount. Dealing with the public has it's ups and downs but "the customer is always right" and all that. So people would turn up with gear where they'd shorted things out and done something stupid and we would always do everything we could to make sure they left happy. Warranty repairs done when they were not strictly entitled and we would have to wear the cost and that sort of thing.

But despite this on rare occasions, some jerk would come through the door stone cold shouting and yelling. They knew their rights, they had spoken to their lawyer (always their brother), they had spoken to Citizen's Advice (they hadn't), they would even threaten violence on occasion. And guess what, we smiled nicely and did everything we could think of to delay or hinder them getting what they wanted. Because that's what happens if you can't be nice. It's the same thing as that waiter you just p*ssed off spitting in your soup (or worse) at a restaurant.

So - and again, not aimed at anybody here - when you are depending on people to help you and give a good service - try not to be a jerk wink
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