Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Peter Seaman -
Number of replies: 22

I'm doing a little research project on materials to help people use an LMS (what I think most people would call "support materials").  I'm seeing various philosophies around support materials:

a) The organization that creates the LMS also creates support materials that they bundle with the LMS, or even sell;

b) An organization adopts an LMS and creates its own support materials, sharing them just within their organization (or with "lurkers" who find these materials on the web);

c) A community of users creates support materials and shares them with the entire community;

d) A third-party organization creates support materials and sells them, either alone or bundled with the LMS.

Moodle seems to have all of these models, so I'm wondering: Is there any "guiding philosophy" around creating support materials that anyone has identified?

Also I'm wondering if any of the Moodle Partners make a case for their own support materials ("Adopt Moodle Partner ABC's Moodle hosting and get access to our robust support materials!"). Or do the MPs tend to fall back on community resources?

Moodle seems perhaps unique in this way, b/c anyone can re-purpose it and then create her/his own support materials for that particular community of users.

Just wondering about people's thoughts and experiences around these issues. Thanks.

Peter

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In reply to Peter Seaman

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

I am an individual professor at a private university.  I have adopted Moodle myself (my school uses Blackboard), I manage Moodle myself, and I create all of my own instructional materials.  Maybe I come the closest to your "b" description.


Maybe your question will generate other types of configurations.

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In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Peter Seaman -

Hi Rick:  That's interesting about your solo adoption of Moodle. When you say you create all of your own instructional materials, are those materials to help others (students only?) learn how to use Moodle?  Or do you mean the materials specific to the subject you're teaching?

I'm mostly interested in the former - materials on "how to use or develop a course in Moodle."

Thanks.

Peter

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In reply to Peter Seaman

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Scott Karren -

Peter

I'll jump in here and say that I am most closely associated with your "B" definition.  We implemented Moodle for employee training and development.  We create our own instructional materials, both those used in the actual courses that we present and those that are used to teach people how to use the various features and functions of Moodle we have implemented.

I would like to say that we "lurked" and found what we needed on the Internet and then modified it to our liking, but we have a highly customized version of Moodle to meet our needs and there is nothing out there that would help us.

I would be interested in knowing the results of your research project, it sounds interesting.

Scott

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In reply to Scott Karren

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Colin Fraser -
Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Testers

Yes, I too would be in the B category. Simply because it is easier to tailor materials to suit the needs of our Moodle.

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In reply to Peter Seaman

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

I develop materials for the courses (or subjects) that I teach.  Some of my materials I make public, and some are private (behind my Moodle).  You can see some of my public materials by search iTunes for my last name.  I have around four or so podcasts that I distribute for my students.

Someday, I want to create materials to help people create courses themselves using Moodle.  Maybe a book with video support, or something like that.

I also teach as an adjunct professor at a big ten university.  They use Desire2Learn.  However, they have had no problem whatsoever with me teaching my course with Moodle.  They are simply seeking high quality courses.

My own university is a little more sensitive about me soloing with Moodle.  They use Blackboard, and they get concerned when my students tell them how great Moodle is and then ask them to switch to Moodle.  I am not paid to make those decisions, and the administrators who are paid like Moodle. This is fine with me, since I get to give my students a unique and better experience.  Realistically, some schools really would have more problems adopting Moodle since they might have to seek and acquire better support personnel.  Moodle has many more features, and your support staff has to be more knowledgeable.  

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In reply to Peter Seaman

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by E. L. Cooper -

I think you are missing the most valuable "e"

An organization or individual creates support materials and shares them with the world community at large. In a very real way this is how moodle works which is why you find tutorials all over the internet, with variation of technical expertise required on moodle.

 Posting here is not lurking- it is participating. I may not steer the ship but I help raise the sails.

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In reply to Peter Seaman

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Peter Seaman -

I understand it's very bad form to reply to one's own posting, but please indulge me here. I've realized I didn't frame my original question very well, so I'd like to try again.

My revised question is this:

What are the favored ways of providing support materials for Moodle users?

That is, if I were new to Moodle and wanting to learn how to use it (and to be supported in my use of it), where could I look to for support?

Seems to me there are several good avenues:

1) Moodle books: I remember when I started using Moodle in 2001, there were no books about Moodle. Then Jason Cole and Helen Foster wrote the first one, and now there are lots of books on various aspects of Moodle. https://moodle.org/mod/data/view.php?id=7246

2) Moodle docs: These are the support docs generated by moodle.org
 http://docs.moodle.org/23/en/Main_page

3) Moodle forums: The virtual community where we ask questions of each other (what I'm doing right now).

4) Home-grown support documentation and videos: Individuals, either alone or within Moodle-using institutions, create their own support materials and make them freely available.

Are there are other significant avenues of support?  And which ones do you favor?

Seems as though 1-3 are coordinated by the Moodle organization, to some extent (not sure about the books, though the site says you support the Moodle project by buying a book).

It also seems to me as though it would be useful to be able to say to someone considering Moodle, "If you adopt Moodle, you'll have the support of the following resources." Commercial LMSs I've worked with usually sell the supporting materials when you buy licensing and/or hosting, either in a bundle or stand-alone. Moodle seems less intentional about support, but that could be a problem for people who feel less secure about being able to find support on their own.

I'd be glad to hear about people's experiences using support materials for Moodle - which ones you've found most useful, have come to depend upon, found less useful, made your own, etc.  Thanks.

Peter

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In reply to Peter Seaman

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Marc Grober -
A major issue with so many Moodle books is that they are either trivial or just a representation of the docs. And forum content regularly demonstrates that users do not spend time in the docs, lol. Suggestions for a forum interface that pushes users to appropriate documentation has been eschewed by MHQ, but I think between such an interface and more doc participation they ARE the best resource. There are also other groups that offer mailing lists and such as well as a variety of local options that may be available through near by colleges or through private trainers and consultants (there are quite a few in Britain.) Perhaps one of the biggest problems is the blind leading the blind where someone who is clueless starts telling others what to do (I see that a great deal locally) and as a result students get irritated and any advantage from using an LMS is lost. There have been quite a few who have written about different types of usage and how usage of an LMS can seem to move through phases as one becomes more comfortable and expert. While the constructionist patina on such can be profitably ignored, the underlying analysis is of great value I believe and begs the questions that all instructional design must face: why are you doing this and what are the competing economies? The greatest support resource? An understanding by your users that moodle competence, like other competences, IS NOT a walk in the park wink
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In reply to Marc Grober

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Mary Cooch -
Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

That is, if I were new to Moodle and wanting to learn how to use it (and to be supported in my use of it), where could I look to for support?

I think it really does depend on where you're coming from (starting from) If you were in an institution that used Moodle I'd expect you'd probably have some internal tutorials of some sort made, which at least would have your Moodle's look and terminology to confuse you less at the start.

Whenever I got out to show organisations how to use Moodle (which isn't very often these day, admittedly) I like to point out the documentation and forums: the documentation because it is the most up to date (which is only a selling point if your institution's Moodle is up to date) and the forums because to me, if I have a problem in Moodle , I find the forums the quickest way to get an answer. The problem with the documentation is that not everyone likes reading stuff online (but you can print it off) and also not everyone likes reading instructions. I never read manuals! That said, I would still  make Moodle documentation by first and biggest mention re help resources to a new Moodler/Moodling institution.

I am sceptical too  that forums work for everyone; you have to be an online forum type of person. I might be in a room of 20 people from a university faculty for instance, and I just can't see them having the motivation to go and make an account on Moodle and ask their question. I can see them looking through home-grown resources or simply asking their admin/e-learning trainer (who themselves would be more likely to go on our forums and research the answer!)

Books I mention because I know some people like "paper" books they can hold, rather than online documentation.  However, these are the least useful because they are invariably out of date as soon as they are published. And you have to buy them! Sure, Moodle gets a percentage but they are not connected to Moodle or endorsed by Moodle (except the original Using Moodle).

There are other mailing lists around which seem quite popular -I personally (despite being on the lists) find it a shame they don't all just use the forums, but I think perhaps some people like the ease with which you can post a query to a mailing list and get email replies much more simply than on our forums.

Video tutorials are in abundance on youtube; again though, you have to search through a lot of waffle before you come up with what you want, unless your organisation has taken the trouble to make some. And then you have the potential issue that theirs might also be waffle -or as mentioned before - not top quality accuracy.

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In reply to Mary Cooch

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Peter Seaman -
I see what you mean about "searching through a lot of waffle." I think that's a possible weakness of community-based solutions. Contrast the waffle with "official" support materials created by employees of a commercial LMS. These materials are usually well-defined, QA'ed, up-to-date (for the version you're buying), etc. On the other hand, they can be really expensive. In my experience, risk-averse users will always default to these better-defined materials, but I wonder if Moodle could reassure new users to some extent that there are high-quality support materials available for Moodle.
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In reply to Peter Seaman

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Derek Chirnside -

This is an interesting question.  Who is "Moodle" in your mind Peter?  Are you sure you have got the idea of "community-based" that you refer to?

You ask: "but I wonder if Moodle could reassure new users to some extent that there are high-quality support materials available for Moodle"

If I was asked the question, for new users, the answer is yes, lots.  YouTube, SlideShare, Blip.tv, as Mary said: the docs.  Go to a Moodle.  Buy a course from Lynda.com or even better, Moodlebytes.  Google "course design in Mooodle".  Books. 

-Derek

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In reply to Derek Chirnside

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Peter Seaman -

Derek, you've identified many sources of varying quality. By "community-based," I mean that Moodle seems a lot more diffuse in its approach to support materials. If you buy the "official" support materials from a commercial LMS (like D2L), you've pretty much got everything you'll ever need. But with Moodle, the choices are vast and it's hard to judge the quality of the resources - almost like the Web itself (do a search on Google and who knows what you'll get).

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In reply to Mary Cooch

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Glenys Hanson -

Hi there,

I agree with most of what Mary has written and, for me, the best video tutorials are hers, see Mary Cooch - Using Moodle.

Personally, I prefer written tutorials with step-by-step instructions and a screenshot for each step. But then I'm an old, fuddy-duddy.

These days, when I have a problem, I do a Google search for it. I only ask for help on these forums when that fails.

Cheers,

Glenys

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In reply to Glenys Hanson

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Mary Cooch -
Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

Peter (quote) Contrast the waffle with "official" support materials created by employees of a commercial LMS .....usually well-defined, QA'ed, up-to-date (for the version you're buying), etc..... I wonder if Moodle could reassure new users to some extent that there are high-quality support materials available for Moodle.

So - back to the docs then big grin http://docs.moodle.org/en/Main_page

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In reply to Mary Cooch

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Colin Fraser -
Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Testers

The problem with Moodle Docs is that they are written by "experts", and the language can be couched in Moodle related technical terms making it meaningless to the beginning Moodler or be dumbed down to the point where the message is lost, or not written with sufficient detail for some, to much detail for others. It was this very reason I started editing Docs, I just go so frustrated by trying to understand documents that were too dense.

Writing technical documentation is a demanding exercise, and not always an easy one. I try to make what I write meaningful for anyone who has some idea of what their problem is, but sometimes cannot avoid waffle. I try to use plain English rather than Jibblish or Techlish and even then, it needs to be scrutinised more deeply I suspect.

I also suspect that we are still, predominently, a paper-based culture, which is why Moodle Docs is an under-utilized resource, but it is changing. There is sufficient anecdotal evidence that reveals we are turning more and more to visual learning, using video, for the structured learning using technology is. This is why Mary's videos are so useful, and popular, (remember Tomazs' "Two Minute Moodles" series). I am starting, yet again, a set of videos on basic use, but, yet again, having trouble finding the time to do it. Think I am going to give up and just download other people's videos, making sure they are available to use. The major issue here of course, is relevance and currency. Not all the videos I have seen are relevent to my need nor are they always current, or are directly related to my versions.

Having said all this, I suggest it is a matter of concentrating available, relevant, resources into courses in your own Moodle that can be accessed by the appropriate people. For me, that would be one for students that is self-enrollable, with automatic un-enrollment, that shows basic things, how to use the TinyMC editor, how to upload assignments, how to access gradebook and read comments, using forums and blogs and taking online tests. For teachers, it would be several courses I think, creating courses, writing courses, adding content, using the various activities, using gradebook, design considerations, writing questions for the question bank, and so on. I would also suggest that this would, of necessity, slow down changing versions - perhaps running the risk of causing more issues when an upgrade happens.         

Now, how is that for waffle?

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In reply to Colin Fraser

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Mary Cooch -
Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

I agree that many people like paper-based documentation and that's why perhaps for some the online documentation isn't as well read as it should be. However, I disagree that for beginners the documentation is too technical - or at least - where it is, please specify and we'll try to improve on it. I can't speak for the installation and other administration parts of the documentation that I don't understand but for a beginner reading about activities/resources/course creation, Helen has worked very hard to make the latest versions user-friendly with screenshots etc.

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In reply to Mary Cooch

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Colin Fraser -
Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Testers

Yes, Mary, they are now, but only because you, Helen, Chris Coleman and a few others were very considerate about my constant whinging..smile

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In reply to Colin Fraser

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Marc Grober -

I think Colin puts his funger on a number of important points.

  • Moodle Docs are a community effort are should be a reflection of the needs of community based on the community's construction, expansion and modification of same.  However,  the sad truth is that most people won't bother. They have plenty of excuses,  but the excuses largely boil down to "it's someone else's responsibility"
  • Documentation requires some effort; while more often than not users looking for help are in baby bird mode.
  • Users typically don't want to learn how something works,  they want to be able to do x, y and z, and do it now.

This all adds up to a one word indictment, laziness. Now,  if someone posts a query in the forum about Q,  my initial response is often going to be, "Please post the initial query you used to search the docs."  Yes, there are those who get their shorts in a twist,  but such a question is very revealing, isn't it?  It tells one how well the user understands the problem, how much effort the user is willing to put into resolving the problem,  etc. And more often than not the response is just as telling in that the user has NOT done any looking; they simply posted a question in the forum.  How many times have I seen in the forum, "Can some one tell me if Moodle works?" or some such, lol.

In an open software project the users must be willing participants in crafting documentation,  and one of the few things that Moodle does right is make the docs MediaWiki based and open to community editing.  But despite this,  we see lots of great instructional material that is not integrated into Moodle Docs.  Sure, there are many reasons not to add your material to Moodle Docs, and it might be un to chat about those in another thread, but the short answer is that useers need to step up, just as Colin did

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In reply to Peter Seaman

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Ralf Hilgenstock -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators

Hi  Peter

we are German Moodle partner and here is a list of our activities:

  • Maintaining German language pack
  • Supporting german version of docs
  • publishing German help and info videos via publisher (>160 videos; >11 hours)
  • publishing German printed manuals for students,  teachers and admins
  • own training  handouts
  • individual manuals for clients

The main point  is that German users expect German documentation and help. Our experience shows that different users prefer different types of resources.

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In reply to Ralf Hilgenstock

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Peter Seaman -

Danke, Ralf. Quite an impressive list of support materials. Are they available to all Moodle users, or just to clients who buy your hosting?

(You've made me think of yet another source of support materials: a Moodle Partner. I know that Remote-Learner, for example, has put on some very impressive webinars that I've learned a lot from.)

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In reply to Peter Seaman

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Marcus Green -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers

I have been using the leading commercial VLE for 10 years and I have found the online support to be of no help at all. I have mainly solved my problems with it by browsing resources created independently by universities around the world. You do not necessarily "get what you pay for"

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In reply to Marcus Green

Re: Support materials in Moodle vs other LMSs

by Glenys Hanson -

Hi there,

My experience many years ago (maybe 8) with WebCT was just what Marcus has described: there were knowledgeable people in my own university who helped, but if I had a problem they didn't know the answer to, I never managed to get an answer out of WebCT in spite of the hefty price we were paying. Just access to densely, written technical documentation I didn't understand.

What a relief it was to go Open Source (first Dokeos, then Moodle) and be able to write in forums and get a practically instantaneous response. Not always a solution of course, but at least I knew when what I wanted wasn't possible. I found the documentation in Moodle just as impenetrable - thanks so much to those who've made it less so these days. In my experience, Open Source support is just a million times better. But maybe I'm not a typical user. thoughtful

Cheers,

Glenys

PS: Wish I could find Open Source hosting for my association's non Moodle site. But I gather that doesn't exist.

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