We really need to update the default icons in Moodle 2.0.
One good idea is to move to using something based on the Tango Icon Library (which is GPL and widely used).
There is also the Silk set: http://www.famfamfam.com/lab/icons/silk/ and the Nuvola set: http://www.moodlezengarden.com/
They all require quite a bit of work and I would really appreciate your help in helping us to choose and finish one beautiful new set of icons to put in core.
See MDL-14361 for details.
Hello Martin,
as you might know, I did some work on the tango icon set (Tango Moodalis theme). I'd like to contribute some arguments for the Tango icon set:
All Tango icons - including my 16x16 pixel rewritings and new icons - have a svg base.
Martin Butz
as you might know, I did some work on the tango icon set (Tango Moodalis theme). I'd like to contribute some arguments for the Tango icon set:
All Tango icons - including my 16x16 pixel rewritings and new icons - have a svg base.
- This makes the set very easy to extend and open for all kinds of contributiors. Components of the icons can easily be rearranged or used for new icons - even for people not being experts in icon design. This can be done using Inkscape (open source vector grafics editor).
- Experts can gradually extend and optimize the stock icon set starting f. e. from the Moodalis theme svg base (as far as I can see currently all moodle icons exist as tango version, allthough there will probably some discussion about the symbolic assignments I chose)
- If - in some near future - all browsers can interprete svg, moodle can generate icons dynamically (f. e. mark an icon with an outline to call the users attention), based on the manipulation resp. dynamic creation of the svg files.
Martin Butz
Hi Martin,
I'm happy to hear that you are going to update the default icon set. This will be an improvement. We have been using the Nuvola set and quite liking them.
I would like to humbly suggest you look at the Wordpress user interface (where bloggers go to make their entries and set preferences, etc...) and see how they are using icons. They use them in a very sophisticated way. They use grey icons that turn to coloured ones when rolled over or as stay coloured to indicate the specific page/section. (Incidentally, their pages are great examples of user interface design and usability.)
One of the challenges in an icon set is that all the different colours can be distracting. Red is always going to yell more loudly than blue. It's better to have a more neutral approach to the interface so that it does not compete so much with the main task purpose of the page (whatever that purpose is, it is generally not to draw attention to the ever-present icons).
One thing in particular that I really like about the Wordpress interface is the way they have customized the TinyMCE interface. It's beautiful and highly functional. This is a key element in Moodle as all teacher and student interactions and course creations flow through it.Wordpress has the interface split between auto formatting (highlight then click to format, like Word) and code view. The code view has a beautiful feature that allows users to sellect text, hit a button and the interface puts in the html around the text for you. It's functional, as it saves time for coders, as well as instructional, as people will be taught basic html through its use.
Wordpress is open source. So I imagine your programmers would be able to see how they do things quite easily.
Best,
Ian
I'm happy to hear that you are going to update the default icon set. This will be an improvement. We have been using the Nuvola set and quite liking them.
I would like to humbly suggest you look at the Wordpress user interface (where bloggers go to make their entries and set preferences, etc...) and see how they are using icons. They use them in a very sophisticated way. They use grey icons that turn to coloured ones when rolled over or as stay coloured to indicate the specific page/section. (Incidentally, their pages are great examples of user interface design and usability.)
One of the challenges in an icon set is that all the different colours can be distracting. Red is always going to yell more loudly than blue. It's better to have a more neutral approach to the interface so that it does not compete so much with the main task purpose of the page (whatever that purpose is, it is generally not to draw attention to the ever-present icons).
One thing in particular that I really like about the Wordpress interface is the way they have customized the TinyMCE interface. It's beautiful and highly functional. This is a key element in Moodle as all teacher and student interactions and course creations flow through it.Wordpress has the interface split between auto formatting (highlight then click to format, like Word) and code view. The code view has a beautiful feature that allows users to sellect text, hit a button and the interface puts in the html around the text for you. It's functional, as it saves time for coders, as well as instructional, as people will be taught basic html through its use.
Wordpress is open source. So I imagine your programmers would be able to see how they do things quite easily.
Best,
Ian
Everything you mention here are things that theme designers can control in their themes, or administrators can control with configuration. They are not things that should be hard-coded in Moodle core.
At most, we could discuss what the default theme and default configuration options should be.
At most, we could discuss what the default theme and default configuration options should be.
Ok Tim. You considered my suggestion and that is what I wanted, thanks. I assume that you say that because you feel it would be too customized for what the default should be. I'm not fond of the general idea that visual design is a customization. It means that people who can't do it suffer for the lack of it. It seems to me to be a worthy effort to have a better base. Regardless, a more modern looking icon set will improve Moodle.
No, I am not really saying that.
What I am saying is, I suppose, is just that in as far as is possible we should separate presentation from functionality. Moodle core code should try not to assume much about how themes will want look.
For that to be effective, we need to ensure that Moodle Themes have the power to customise things they want to be able to customise. Which means semantic HTML with plenty of ids and classes.
Related but separate is the question of what themes Moodle should ship with by default. It would be nice if Moodle looked nicer out of the box. And the same time, Moodle needs to go on shipping a fairly plain theme that is a good starting point for people who want to create their own theme. That is what the standard theme is for. And then we have a number of other default themes most of which inherit from that. For Moodle 2.0 we have a new default theme Anomaly, and I think Martin posted here recently about some other new standard themes for Moodle 2.0.
Then there is the point that Moodle core + theme is only part of a finished Moodle site. A lot of a Moodle site is teacher-created and configured content. Again, if the theme designer has done their job properly, then teacher who just creates basic content without worrying about design issues should get a course that looks good by default. However, a teacher who wants to do particular things with the layout and styling of their course should be able to override the default formatting provided by the theme. That is why we have the HTML editor, and so on.
So, I do agree with you that a better default theme for Moodle would be gpod. However, I also would like it to be somebody else's problem, becuase I am a developer, and there are plenty of designers here. I need to spend my time working on changes to the core code, several of which are aimed at making it possible to create richer themes. But I don't have time to worry about the themes themselves. But that is OK, other people here are working on themes. And I am happy to stick my oar into the discussion.
What I am saying is, I suppose, is just that in as far as is possible we should separate presentation from functionality. Moodle core code should try not to assume much about how themes will want look.
For that to be effective, we need to ensure that Moodle Themes have the power to customise things they want to be able to customise. Which means semantic HTML with plenty of ids and classes.
Related but separate is the question of what themes Moodle should ship with by default. It would be nice if Moodle looked nicer out of the box. And the same time, Moodle needs to go on shipping a fairly plain theme that is a good starting point for people who want to create their own theme. That is what the standard theme is for. And then we have a number of other default themes most of which inherit from that. For Moodle 2.0 we have a new default theme Anomaly, and I think Martin posted here recently about some other new standard themes for Moodle 2.0.
Then there is the point that Moodle core + theme is only part of a finished Moodle site. A lot of a Moodle site is teacher-created and configured content. Again, if the theme designer has done their job properly, then teacher who just creates basic content without worrying about design issues should get a course that looks good by default. However, a teacher who wants to do particular things with the layout and styling of their course should be able to override the default formatting provided by the theme. That is why we have the HTML editor, and so on.
So, I do agree with you that a better default theme for Moodle would be gpod. However, I also would like it to be somebody else's problem, becuase I am a developer, and there are plenty of designers here. I need to spend my time working on changes to the core code, several of which are aimed at making it possible to create richer themes. But I don't have time to worry about the themes themselves. But that is OK, other people here are working on themes. And I am happy to stick my oar into the discussion.
Great post Tim. I'm new to Moodle and only lost my Moodleginity a couple of weeks ago when a client asked me to design and build them a Moodle site.
It's awesome! no doubt about that but a shame that it is so riddled with tables and that it is not possible for designer to add their own html and/or classes/ids except in the header and footer.
It is not hard to style but it is hard to style nicely at the moment so it would be a wonderful thing indeed if Moodle 2.0 could be more semantic
It's awesome! no doubt about that but a shame that it is so riddled with tables and that it is not possible for designer to add their own html and/or classes/ids except in the header and footer.
It is not hard to style but it is hard to style nicely at the moment so it would be a wonderful thing indeed if Moodle 2.0 could be more semantic
Moodle 2.0 will give theme designers much more freedom.
http://docs.moodle.org/en/Development:Navigation_2.0
http://docs.moodle.org/en/Development:Navigation_2.0
This is a great post, Tim.
I like the approach that you all are taking with this. It will allow passionate designers to change things around as much as possible. Good design can then be shared with the community and contributed back into core.
In my opinion, this work you're doing fills a major hole in Moodle's current model. Much appreciated.
I like the approach that you all are taking with this. It will allow passionate designers to change things around as much as possible. Good design can then be shared with the community and contributed back into core.
In my opinion, this work you're doing fills a major hole in Moodle's current model. Much appreciated.
I am playing with a Moodle 2.0 instance and was wondering if there is any problem using the current nuvela set (that works so nicely with Moodle 1.9) with Moodle 2.0?