Hi Everyone,
There's quite a bit of buzz in the UK about ELGG (http://elgg.net) - which describes itself as "a fully featured electronic portfolio, weblog and social networking system, connecting learners and creating communities of learning."
There's a really interesting review and an interview on the Auricle site at: http://www.bath.ac.uk/dacs/cdntl/pMachine/morriblog_comments.php?id=P393_0_4_0 where Derek Morrison raises the question "is ELGG an example of a weblog as the model for a new type of VLE?"
There are some exciting concepts here - particularly around the ideas of giving control to the learners (or more accurately giving equal control to both learners and teachers). The creators of ELGG have a big vision for it (http://elgg.net/dtosh/weblog/398.html) which is similar/based on Scott Wilson vision of the future VLE (http://www.cetis.ac.uk/members/scott/blogview?entry=20050117150356), which again seems to reflect Stephen Downes ideas around networked learning (http://www.downes.ca/cgi-bin/website/view.cgi?dbs=Article&key=1109302318).
I'm wondering how far Moodle might end up going down the social networking / distributed learning route, now that blogs & a personal file store are on their way? It certainly seems to be the way that things are going, particularly in workplace learning, where the future of "courses" seems to be in doubt. (Although perhaps we're thinking quite a way in the future for training departments to catch up...?)
All the best,
Mark
supposedley communities of inquiry pre-exist communities of practice sicne it is the firts step to itneraction and provride the reson for the user to appraoh the forum.
What I try to ask is:
"Is intrinsic motivation, the driving force for such a learning community, enough?
To name that example again: Suppose that you are a sportsman, good in swimming. Every morning 5 o'clock you go to the swimmingpool. And you have all the books about faster swimming. You want to go to the next Olympics, so a better motivated and better informed person (expert?) does not exist.
Then way do you pay a person to talk with you, guide you and sometimes even bark at you? Why is talking to the other swimmers in your community not enough?
(So what is the difference between community members and a coach? And where is the room for the coach in this community system. In the Moodle forums we neither have a coach, well we have WP.)
I had a chat with one of the ELGG guys a while back and had a look at this system. It's nice as far as it goes, but I think once Moodle has the Blogs (Moodle 1.6) and DMS that have been planned for so long, you will be able to structure learning the same way in Moodle if you want to.
One of their features I really liked was the inclusion of interests (keywords) in the user profile, which let you browse for other people with the same interests. We should do that.
One of their features I really liked was the inclusion of interests (keywords) in the user profile, which let you browse for other people with the same interests. We should do that.
Hi Martin,
I thought that's what you might say. Will the blogs + DMS combination in 1.6 allow users to find other people who used/commented on/rated the same document?
The search/recommending facility is going to be critical - I tend towards Stephen Downes' view that the metadata that's attached to a resource (and include people in that) should come from the end users, eg. "Links, references, readings, annotations, classifications, context of use." (from: http://www.downes.ca/cgi-bin/website/view.cgi?dbs=Article&key=1109302318)
One thing that the ELGG creators are looking at is how to link together ELGG instances so that relationships between resources can be made across those instances. I'm assuming they're thinking along the lines of using RSS & FOAF in some clever way to do this...
All the best,
Mark
I thought that's what you might say. Will the blogs + DMS combination in 1.6 allow users to find other people who used/commented on/rated the same document?
The search/recommending facility is going to be critical - I tend towards Stephen Downes' view that the metadata that's attached to a resource (and include people in that) should come from the end users, eg. "Links, references, readings, annotations, classifications, context of use." (from: http://www.downes.ca/cgi-bin/website/view.cgi?dbs=Article&key=1109302318)
One thing that the ELGG creators are looking at is how to link together ELGG instances so that relationships between resources can be made across those instances. I'm assuming they're thinking along the lines of using RSS & FOAF in some clever way to do this...
All the best,
Mark
Martin, would have to respectfully disagree with you. I have been trying the blog engine in Moodle with my 8th and 9th graders, Elgg has a lot of pluses over Moodle (in that category). The blog setup in Elgg is much easier to understand. You can post to your blog (publicly, privately, just for friends, etc) and then you can also post to a community (group) blog to any community which you belong to.
Moodle has the disadvantage of not making it totally clear what you are currently posting to (course a, b, c, personal blog). The keywords or tags or also very confusing in Moodle as they are shared between people. I understand the reasoning here, but users don't understand why they see a tag called, "pink leopard" - that is when I try to explain that someone else created that. "Oh, ok, I guess..."
Elgg and Moodle are separate software packages for separate purposes. We currently use Moodle and are thinking about how to tie in Elgg. When Open Academic comes online, things will get really interesting.
If you want to join an online Elgg community for educators though, come over to Education Bridges. Sign up for a free account and start posting to your blog or searching for topics that interest you.
Moodle has the disadvantage of not making it totally clear what you are currently posting to (course a, b, c, personal blog). The keywords or tags or also very confusing in Moodle as they are shared between people. I understand the reasoning here, but users don't understand why they see a tag called, "pink leopard" - that is when I try to explain that someone else created that. "Oh, ok, I guess..."
Elgg and Moodle are separate software packages for separate purposes. We currently use Moodle and are thinking about how to tie in Elgg. When Open Academic comes online, things will get really interesting.
If you want to join an online Elgg community for educators though, come over to Education Bridges. Sign up for a free account and start posting to your blog or searching for topics that interest you.
Hello Arvind
Lets say this: blog in moodle is a Bonus facility.
Moodle has a few dozen other important reasons to be used and blogging may not make it to the top 10 list. So i guess this point is moot. I actually dont understand why is moodle and elgg being compared. they serve somewhat different purposes though purportedly, it's education, in the broad sense
Lets say this: blog in moodle is a Bonus facility.
Moodle has a few dozen other important reasons to be used and blogging may not make it to the top 10 list. So i guess this point is moot. I actually dont understand why is moodle and elgg being compared. they serve somewhat different purposes though purportedly, it's education, in the broad sense
Definitely agree with you. The blogging is a bonus in Moodle, not a key feature. Big missing feature is comments.
I wasn't so much comparing as hoping to get them working together (shared usernames, perhaps data, etc).
I wasn't so much comparing as hoping to get them working together (shared usernames, perhaps data, etc).
There are more important reasons to take Moodle than its blog functionality but does that mean we don't have to care about user friendliness?
Note the age of the post you replied to 
Note also that there is *no* concept of posting Moodle blogs to a course at all. Blogs are user centered. Instead of posting a blog to a course we have forums (which Elgg doesn't have, I guess).
Blogs in Moodle are really basic right now because we're looking for good feedback on what they should become.
If you have good experience with blogs in different systems it'd be appreciated if you could go over the blogs forum and join in, and/or make some good feature requests on the Moodle Tracker. Thanks!
Note also that there is *no* concept of posting Moodle blogs to a course at all. Blogs are user centered. Instead of posting a blog to a course we have forums (which Elgg doesn't have, I guess).
Blogs in Moodle are really basic right now because we're looking for good feedback on what they should become.
If you have good experience with blogs in different systems it'd be appreciated if you could go over the blogs forum and join in, and/or make some good feature requests on the Moodle Tracker. Thanks!
Blogs are user centered
I thought that user-centered blogs were the case, but for instance in my blog menu of my course, it says: "view course entries" which are blog posts that were written while the students were accessing my particular course page. If you access a student's blog from a separate course, you would not see the posts from my course. Is that correct? In that way, they are granular across courses. I think that is probably a good thing, but we need to figure out how to pedagogically set our students up to use them easily (or cross-course even).
I thought that user-centered blogs were the case, but for instance in my blog menu of my course, it says: "view course entries" which are blog posts that were written while the students were accessing my particular course page. If you access a student's blog from a separate course, you would not see the posts from my course. Is that correct? In that way, they are granular across courses. I think that is probably a good thing, but we need to figure out how to pedagogically set our students up to use them easily (or cross-course even).
elgg does deserve some discussion, and not just in the blogs forum. It is genuinely 'different' from any course management system, even one as excellent as Moodle.
Whislt Moodle does have excellent support for the individual (including personalisation) I believe that it is provider/space-centric e.g comprising courses within an installation. That is entirely reasonable given its remit.
Something like elgg very much focuses on the individual and their networks. What I love about it is that it puts the choice on privacy very firmly with the user - I will make this post private, and this one for my friends, and that one public. An elgg blog is different from a Moodle blog.
Whislt Moodle does have excellent support for the individual (including personalisation) I believe that it is provider/space-centric e.g comprising courses within an installation. That is entirely reasonable given its remit.
Something like elgg very much focuses on the individual and their networks. What I love about it is that it puts the choice on privacy very firmly with the user - I will make this post private, and this one for my friends, and that one public. An elgg blog is different from a Moodle blog.
Are Moodle and ELGG competing or complementary?
My first impression was that they complement each other but now I am not so sure. It would be nice to have an Elgg block where you can access and Elgg community within the moodle framework (Is anybody doing this? I tried to login to the Elgg integration demo but received no automated e-mail). There were a coulple of things I really liked about Elgg though. It was VERY easy to use, and I also think it's familiarlity will be very welcoming for younger users who are much more familiar with that form of site. I would be interested to hear views on how the two pieces of software blend together and which applications in particular Elgg has proved useful for.
My first impression was that they complement each other but now I am not so sure. It would be nice to have an Elgg block where you can access and Elgg community within the moodle framework (Is anybody doing this? I tried to login to the Elgg integration demo but received no automated e-mail). There were a coulple of things I really liked about Elgg though. It was VERY easy to use, and I also think it's familiarlity will be very welcoming for younger users who are much more familiar with that form of site. I would be interested to hear views on how the two pieces of software blend together and which applications in particular Elgg has proved useful for.
Everything I have heard implies they are complimentry. Miles Berry has some experience with them, if he reads this perhaps he would comment.
Definitely complimentary. Moodle is about course management and Elgg is about social networking.
There are a number of people working on integrating. Open Academic. Also discussion on the Elgg site about them working together.
There are a number of people working on integrating. Open Academic. Also discussion on the Elgg site about them working together.
Elgg has a symmetry that Moodle doesn't - no users are specifically marked out in any way, and is much more powerful in lots of ways from a blogging perspective - you can set up groups of users and only create posts that only a particular group of users can view for instance. You can read your friends' posts very easily inside Elgg.
Moodle has lots and lots of functionality useful for teachers in educational contexts that Elgg doesn't have on the other hand.
At the moment they are definitely distinct with a very small overlap in functionality and are useful in different ways, but it's possible to envisage some convergence in future depending on the direction they each decide to take.
Moodle has lots and lots of functionality useful for teachers in educational contexts that Elgg doesn't have on the other hand.
At the moment they are definitely distinct with a very small overlap in functionality and are useful in different ways, but it's possible to envisage some convergence in future depending on the direction they each decide to take.
Complementary.
And integratable.
For views on how they blend together, check out here.
For a project that is making that vision a reality, check http://openacademic.org
Cheers,
Bill
And integratable.
For views on how they blend together, check out here.
For a project that is making that vision a reality, check http://openacademic.org
Cheers,
Bill
That diagram looks amazing... is that the way you envision Open Academic working?
More or less -- OA is about providing students, teachers, and schools the flexibility to do their work -- I made the diagram a few months back, so my thinking has evolved a bit since then, but the diagram is still accurate with regards to the basics.
We're past the point where the needs of one set of stakeholders trump the needs of other stakeholders -- the tools are now flexible enough to allow for a focused deployment, where each school/institution/organization sets up the sites they need to meet their mission.
I talk about these ideas a little bit here and here-- but yeah, I look at OA as both a philosophical approach to technology use within schools, as well as a set of tools that empower learning.
We're past the point where the needs of one set of stakeholders trump the needs of other stakeholders -- the tools are now flexible enough to allow for a focused deployment, where each school/institution/organization sets up the sites they need to meet their mission.
I talk about these ideas a little bit here and here-- but yeah, I look at OA as both a philosophical approach to technology use within schools, as well as a set of tools that empower learning.