The topics format as God (or whatever supreme force or agency, imaginary or otherwise) intended it

The topics format as God (or whatever supreme force or agency, imaginary or otherwise) intended it

by Itamar Tzadok -
Number of replies: 10

is simply such that it defaults to one section at a time (that is, each section new page).

Here goes.

Illustration 1

  • Top navbar with previous/next and 'Show section' (aka "jump to") dropdown.
  • The Show section shows the current section.
  • It also allows to show All sections.
  • Note the 'News forum' and the familiar sticky section-0. But here section-0 is only sticky by a setting and may be set to unstick in which case it will appear in the sections menu.
  • By the same concept, each section may be set to stick or unstick.
  • (now that I look at it from this angle, the Choose... is rather redundant)

Illustration 2

  • Just to prove that all sections may be displayed.
  • The zoom box on the right has the familiar functionality of zooming in a section.
  • The first section (section-0) doesn't zoom but only because it is set to stick.

Illustration 3

  • Just to show that after section-0 is set to unstick, it doesn't appear when another section is selected, but it may be selected from the Show section menu or navigated to.

Illustration 4

The interesting part is the edit bar in edit mode.

  • For adding sections no need to go to the course settings page. Simply select the desired number of sections from the dropdown and they will be created and appended to the end of the list. (In fact the format ignores the num topics/weeks course setting altogether)
  • The add resource/activity menus are also in the edit bar. These menus appear only once even if all sections are shown. The resource/activity is added to the current section or to the first sections if all sections are shown.
  • Not shown here, but a section may be deleted if it has no resources/activities. That would be a delete button in the section's right column.
  • Shown here (along side the familiar section actions) is a lock/unlock button as an interim to a 'stick/unstick' button (icon). That's how a section may be set to stick or unstick. 

 

Future functionality may include conditional sections, although the logic of that is not straightforward.

 

Comments and suggestions are welcome. smile

Average of ratings: Useful (3)
In reply to Itamar Tzadok

Re: The topics format as God (or whatever supreme force or agency, imaginary or otherwise) intended it

by Gareth J Barnard -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers

Dear Itamar,

Interesting format.  Please could you post the code so that it can be used on a test site?

I think that ignoring the number of topics / weeks setting in the course is a mistake because users may wish to convert an existing course to your format and back again and yet still retain the number that has been set.  Plus this is conceptually duplication of existing concepts which is never a good thing from a maintainability point of view.

When you remove a section that has no activities are the others renumbered if they are after it?

As I assume you are using a new table in the DB for the 'sticky' and layout of the course is there backup / restore / delete course code?

Is the 'sticky' set on a 'per course' or a 'per course per user' basis?

Does it work alongside the existing topics format?

What is the name of the format as you post title is a little confusing?

Cheers,

Gareth

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Gareth J Barnard

Re: The topics format as God (or whatever supreme force or agency, imaginary or otherwise) intended it

by Itamar Tzadok -

Thanks for the feedback, Gareth!

There are a few more things I want to address in this plugin before releasing a release candidate. This may take a while as my attention is divided between several such challenges.

This format (hereafter the Sections format) doesn't conflict with the number of topics/weeks course setting. It ignores it, but it doesn't do anything which may prevent you from switching to Topics/Weeks format as if you never used the Sections format. This is because it refers to the same standard DB course_sections table that is referred to by the course setting. I'm planning to add DB table for the Sections format but for additional non-duplicating settings (e.g. default section).

Yes, when a section is removed all remaining sections are renumbered. The constraint of removing only empty sections is just temporary. I will add the option to delete a non-empty section (such that its activities become orphaned) and "rm -r" and "rm -rf" options when I get to that

The sticky thing is a sort of trick but legit. I have a designated mod plugin which may be added separately. It is not essential for the basic functionality of the Sections format  but with it comes the stickiness and later on conditional sections etc., without meddling with the core code. It is added to the section as a resource, but it has no content and serves only as a place holder for additional section settings. Goes without saying backup / restore / delete are all handled by the mod plugin as any other plugin.

The sticky is set on a 'per course' basis. A 'per course per user' basis is possible and shouldn't be too difficult to implement given the way the setting is handled.

Yes, by a quick back and forth switch test it seems to work flawlessly along side the topics format.

As indicated above the name is 'Sections'.

smile

Average of ratings: Useful (2)
In reply to Itamar Tzadok

Re: The topics format as God (or whatever supreme force or agency, imaginary or otherwise) intended it

by Carlos Sánchez Martín -

Hello Itamar,

I looks interesting... I will give it a try when code is released, if that helps! I was wondering if a new functionality that I am looking for could be added here... Do you think that each of your topics could have a separate teacher assigned? You added extra features to the topic boxes, and maybe one of them could be to assign specific roles to each topic... that way people could collaborate in a course design, but only with privileges to work on the assign topic.

Thank you,
Carlos

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Carlos Sánchez Martín

Re: The topics format as God (or whatever supreme force or agency, imaginary or otherwise) intended it

by Itamar Tzadok -

Section permissions functionality in which your request belongs is part of the plan and I will definitely try to make it work. smile

Average of ratings: Useful (2)
In reply to Itamar Tzadok

Re: The topics format as God (or whatever supreme force or agency, imaginary or otherwise) intended it

by Gareth J Barnard -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers

Dear Itamar,

Some thoughts about implementation to help with User Story testing in the Agile sense and just things that have sprung to mind as possible issues to be eliminated in your development.

So with the course sections you are effectively adding / removing entries in the 'course_sections' table to make it work?  Which would then possibly cause confusion when switching.

My gut still say's its a bad thing to duplicate the number of topics / weeks course setting - have you tried setting up a course as Topics, switching to your format, adding some new sections, then switching back to Topics and seeing if they are still there?

Are you using "rm -r" and "rm -rf" directly on the course files without updating the database?

There is already the concept of the 'current section' in the topic's / week's formats so you can use that for 'default section'.

I take it that when a course is backed up / restored your embedded sticky enabling module data is stored in the course backup file to avoid course id conflicts?

Cheers,

Gareth

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Gareth J Barnard

Re: The topics format as God (or whatever supreme force or agency, imaginary or otherwise) intended it

by Itamar Tzadok -

So with the course sections you are effectively adding / removing entries in the 'course_sections' table to make it work?  Which would then possibly cause confusion when switching.

Well, people may get confused by the clearest things and there's not much we can do about that. There is really no need for confusion. Consider the following scenario.

  • Start with Topics format and set the num topics to 5.
  • Go to the course and you will see 5 topic sections.
  • Then switch to the Sections format.
  • Go to the course and you will see 5 topic sections.
  • Delete 1 section (so 4 sections are left).
  • Switch to Topics format and leave the num topics on 5.
  • Go to the course and you will see 5 topic sections (because the topics format creates missing topics).
  • Set num topics to 3.
  • Go to the course and you will see 3 topics (there are 5 but the last 2 are not shown).
  • Switch to the Sections format and you will  see 5 topics (because there are 5)

Confused? Just read it again and it will make sense.

My gut still say's its a bad thing to duplicate the number of topics / weeks course setting - have you tried...

Don't listen to your gut, it doesn't know what it's talking about. wink The number of topics/weeks course setting is not duplicated in the Sections format simply because the Sections format doesn't have such a setting.

In fact, if you're concerned about duplication, note that there is some duplication in the course settings in that the functionality of num topics/weeks overlap that of hidden sections with 'hidden sections completely invisible'. The usefulness of the remaining functionlity of the num topics/weeks is highly questionable, so arguably we are left only with the duplication.

Yes I've tried and it seems to work flawlessly, but see also the explanation in the scenario above.

Are you using "rm -r" and "rm -rf" directly on the course files without updating the database?

Oh Dear! I hoped the quotes would make it clear that I meant it as an abbreviation to "delete the section and all its activities with/without confirmation". My bad. mixed

There is already the concept of the 'current section' in the topic's / week's formats so you can use that for 'default section'.

Yes, but 'current section' is just a style not the method. The method is "hardcoded" in the standard formats. In the Topics format it is manual. In the Weeks format it is auto by week. I intend to make the method a setting in the Sections format such that you would be able to use the format with auto-weekly-current-topic highlight as in the Weeks format, or with manual highlight as in the Topics format, and then there may be no need to switch to the other formats which may save us some confusion.

take it that when a course is backed up ...

Just like any other course module.

smile

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Itamar Tzadok

Re: The topics format as God (or whatever supreme force or agency, imaginary or otherwise) intended it

by Gareth J Barnard -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers

Dear Itamar,

Well, people may get confused by the clearest things and there's not much we can do about that.

There is no need to be patronising and sarcastic!  I'm only asking a sensible question and you were asking for feedback.

There is really no need for confusion. 

Your explanation does make sence, however, I'm sure that when users remove sections from your format, switch to another and they reappear they will be confused and you will have to deal with support questions for it

Don't listen to your gut, it doesn't know what it's talking about.

I do listen to my gut because after thirty years of using / working with computers it is often right.

I consider the number of topics / weeks to not be a duplication as it is a statement of how many sections to display for which when greater than the number in the course sections then creates, then when less displays the number specified leaving the newly created ones there.  Therefore facilitating what the user wants.

Oh Dear! I hoped the quotes would make it clear

Again patronising sarcasim when you were not clear.  Quotes simply emphasise / reference a point but to not serve to alias another concept.  Abbreviations are just that, abbreviations like SSADM, BASIC, COBOL, LOL etc.  In this particular instance clarifing your point with literal Unix 'rm' command did not aid understanding.

Yes, but 'current section' is just a style not the method. 

It is a method as it is manifested by the 'marker' attribute in the 'course' table.

To be honest, if you appear to know all of the answers and have not posted the code for comment, may I ask what is the purpose of this thread?  I consider that you have dangled a carrot in front of all of us but not allowed us to eat it.

Regards,

Gareth

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Gareth J Barnard

Re: The topics format as God (or whatever supreme force or agency, imaginary or otherwise) intended it

by Itamar Tzadok -

Apologies, Gareth!!! No patronising and/or sarcasm were intended. mixed

The (perhaps trivial) fact that people get confused by the clearest things sometimes has unfortunate consequences. In Moodle I find that this is causing serious (IMO) usability issues.

I make the point whenever I can to stress that users should strive to make sense of complexes so as get more from the system, rather than wait for oversimplifications which may only allow them to do less.

In this context, the Sections format is supposed to offer both Weeks and Topics formats in one, by a setting. As a user, then, I either switch by setting (the Sections format) or by formats (the standard formats). No one forces me to use any one of these approaches in any particular way, recomended or otherwise. So if I get confused it's no one's fault but mine.

I'm not listening to my gut because of the intrinsic phenomenon of bounded rationality, no matter how many years of experience I have and how many times I was inclined to think that my gut was on the right track.

I'm not sure that I continue to understand your feedback concerning the num Topics/Weeks course setting. Maybe we could agree now that it is not duplicated in the Sections format.

Yes, I was not clear about the "rm -rf" etc. That's why I admitted that it was my bad. But I can see how that may be perceived as patronising once in that mind set. I can only apologise again.

No, while the 'current section' is connected to the 'marker', it is primarily hardcoded in the Weeks format:

            $currentweek = (($weekdate <= $timenow) && ($timenow < $nextweekdate));

I will make it a setting in the Sections format such that if you turn it on you can have the sections format with the current week highlighted and shown by default.

I know many of the answers, Gareth, because this format is meant to be used first and foremost by myself as a user, and I know what I want after years of using Moodle and other LMSs.

The purpose of the thread is to see whether there is public interest and suggestions/requests that I haven't thought of and may make the plugin format more useful to anyone who wishes to use it.

I always develop the proof of concept first, ask for feedback, complete unfinished parts and add feasible requests, and then release a candidate release. I think that's a reasonable practice.

Thanks again for the feedback! smile

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Itamar Tzadok

Re: The topics format as God (or whatever supreme force or agency, imaginary or otherwise) intended it

by Gareth J Barnard -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers

Dear Itamar,

Apology accepted and thank you for the clarifications.

From the 'current section' point of view I was thinking of the following line in the topics format.php file:

$currenttopic = ($course->marker == $section);

As you state that you can both be in topic or week based forms.

Cheers,

Gareth

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Itamar Tzadok

Re: The topics format as God (or whatever supreme force or agency, imaginary or otherwise) intended it

by Bob Puffer -

A tremendous leap forward in usability.  I look forward expectantly to the posting of the code.

Average of ratings: -