A Modest Proposal

A Modest Proposal

by Art Lader -
Number of replies: 42

I think we could use a forum for teachers who would like to develop joint projects. What I mean is a place where Moodlers from all over the world could propose collaborative projects. These (not real) examples might help me explain what I mean:

Twenty-five American high school students in their third year of French would like to Moodle in French with a similar group anywhere in the world except the USA. Topics and other details negotiable.

Fifteen students at St. Mary's School in Aiken would like to get know some Australian students. Ages range from 12 - 14 years. Any Aussies out there interested?

Hi, everyone! Greetings from the Black Forest! My German high school students want to know all about New York City. Is there anyone in NYC who wants to Moodle with us?

International Recipe Swap: Hello, Moodlers, my middle-school students would like your recipes for delicious food from all over the world. We will put them together in a glossary of good eating and post them at Moodle.org. Please help us with this tasty project! [But we speak only English. sad]

I think this would require only a new forum and would be a positive addition to Moodle.org to What do you all think?

-- Art

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Art Lader

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Tom Murdock -
Art,
I'm trying to work up something similar to this, using this kind of content:

http://www.globalsolutions.org/who/reading.html

Now that our kids can communicate with classmates using Moodle, it is time to expand!

-Tom

p.s. I'd be happy to host (free) collaborative space for your kids and teachers to get together, if moodle.org needs to stay lean. Your call and MD's...
In reply to Tom Murdock

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Art Lader -

> I'd be happy to host (free) collaborative
> space for your kids and teachers to get
> together, if moodle.org needs to stay lean.
> Your call and MD's...

Thanks, Tom,

That's a generous offer. Seems like Moodle.org would be a good place to do this, but you are right in thinking that Martin may prefer not to host something like this.

Of course, we can find partners at ePals.com, too, but this seems to me like a natural, evolutionary step for this community.

I guess we'll see.

-- Art

In reply to Tom Murdock

Linking 2 moodles

by Jan Dierckx -
Great idea, Art!
I will send you a recipe for 'witloof met hesp en kaas' smile

Tom's statement
Now that our kids can communicate with classmates using Moodle, it is time to expand!
made me think about the possibility to link two moodle sites. It would be nice if students from Art's class could login into Art's Moodle and then click on a link to www.olvrode.be/elo and find themselves automatically logged in on that moodle site as well.

You know there is this option when adding a resource to pass parameters to another site. This could be used to pass the users name to the hosting moodle site. You could also use the 'encrypted code' parameter to check whether the student really comes from a trusted moodle site.

I don't really know what should happen then...
a) (some of the) students information is copied over to the user database of the hosting moodle site: a visiting student has the same rights as a local student.
b) the student is logged in as a generic user Visiting Student, but his name is stored. (About the same way a teacher can login as another student and both names are depicted in the navigation bar )

(I don't know too much about what goes on inside Moodle's login code, so I can continue dreaming ... )
When this Visiting User writes something in a forum, his real name is added inside the forum post. Internally all of the posts from visiting students have the same userid, students and teachers are able to identify students, because their names are written at the top of each post....





In reply to Jan Dierckx

Re: Linking 2 moodles

by Timothy Takemoto -

Dear Art, Tom Jan, Mary, W Page

Linking 2 Moodles is an excellent idea.

I would really like a way to link moodles too. It would be great to be able to allow my students to communicate with learners elsewhere.

However are we sure that we want students from other classes logging into our classes Moodles? This would be difficult for me since I am using a University IMAP password server, and anyway there are copyright and security reasons why it sounds tricky. What would be nice is if the students could post to their own classes Moodle but that their posts were somehow mirrored in the other class. I thought that somethign like RSS or trackback might do the trick.  Please see
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=3135

If we shared our database usernames and passwords and locations, then perhaps it might be quite straight forward to allow one post be appear on two forums, of the pages of classes on the other side of the world?

I would be really keen to see Moodle linking. I used to be a social constructionist setting letter-wrting-to-penpals as the main form of homework in my English classes but now I mainly just test sad

Tim
Takemoto
PS I recommend the penpal site in the post linked above.

In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: Linking 2 moodles

by Timothy Takemoto -
Come to think of it, Moodle Forums already have a RSS output and I think a RSS reading/displaying block. Might this be used to allow inter-moodle collaboration?

Tim
Takemoto
In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: Linking 2 moodles

by Art Lader -

Tim,

I think things might sometimes be a little easier at the high school level. We just enroll the students from the other school(s) and go from there. No one has objected yet.

I am not rally sure how RSS would work here, but it sounds interesting. Could you explain a little?

Thanks,
Art

In reply to Art Lader

Re: Linking 2 moodles

by Timothy Takemoto -

Art,

 Sadly I have a centralised IMAP password server, copyrighted course materials, exams that I do not want other students to take (the gradebook would become a nightmare), students who do not like their photo to be seen by non-class members, and a Japanese language site interface and course labels (the latter would not be translated even if visiting users were to change the language of preference). Also, I don't mean to be xenophobic but it is far more difficult to control the behaviour (including hacking, or "control F5-ing")of those students who I cannot fail. I think that there are also administration workload problems (who does the administration) and conversely, kudos issues (who gets the kudos for having a super moodle? I agree that doing it here at Moodle.org would be the best solution).

Finally, I would have to mark my students to encourage them to take part. The Moodle forum has a really wonderful socio-behaviouro-constructivist structure in that the rewards for participating are both social -- make friends and communicate with people worldwide -- and behavioural -- get dog food or a class credit, Pavlov, via the use of the grading mechanism. If the debate took place on a shared Moodle then how could I grade my own students? How could I ensure the security, privacy and untangling of their grades? Not intsurmountable but..

All in all while I would love to *link 2 moodles*, the emphasis is on 2, or more, a plurality (network) of moodles, rather than one common super Moodle. I would prefer a peer to peer network, using some kind of inter-Moodle communication.

I am not sure how RSS would work either but I guess that

1) there could be a page or block inside each class which would show what students were saying in the other class via RSS. This alone would be pretty cool. Does anyone have an English class (TOEIC 400 level, sorry) that wants to exchange RSS feeds in this way?

The problem with this would be that there would be no interweaving of the threads, and thus little continuity between each forum. Each poster would appear to be responding to themselves, while someone in the other class started a new thread to respond. It would be like holding a converstation by shouting accross the classroom.

2) It might be possible to work out a way to interweave/interleave the display of the incoming RSS and the moodle forums? Does anyone know how difficult this would be?

Alternatively, as mentioned in the previous post, a different technology, such as

3) some sort of (trackback like) ping. I have no idea how this would work, but bloggers seem to do it.

4) writing into the database of the other site. This sounds like it might pose massive security problems, but be quite easy to do (except for the fact that the userids would be non-existent in the other moodle...hmmm).

i once had a discussion between Japanese and American students about whether dropping atomic bombs on Japan was a good idea. The US students generally said it was, and the Japanese students generally said it was not.  So as a discussion it did not get very far but as a language learning excercise it was quite successful. The opposing team -- from a US airforce training school! -- were not nearly so satisfied, alas.

Tim
tkmt

In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: Linking 2 moodles

by Jamie Pratt -
In reply to Jamie Pratt

Re: Linking 2 moodles

by Ger Tielemans -
We use Moodle as an intranet, so I feel more for the idea of a limited/choosen set of forums that synch under admin control (and: wiki's that allow other schools to work with ours: we now have to use external swiki).
In reply to Art Lader

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Mary Kaplan -

I think this is an awesome idea! A Virginia French teacher found me by accident about a year ago and we have been collaborating very effectively ever since. Art introduced me to a Belgian colleague with whom I have been collaborating for about a year as well. A way to ensure this happens? WOW! Expand our students' horizons! Super!

--Mary

In reply to Art Lader

Re: A Modest Proposal

by W Page -
Hi Art!

I think this is a really neat Idea. A forum would be a good beginning but it would be nice if it had its own mod with a search engine. We would need one of our wonderful MoodleMaster coders to help out with this. Something like a modified "classified" type of thing. Might be useful for the Moodle Business folks too. huuuuuuuuuuum.

Good one Art!

WP1
In reply to Art Lader

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Jurgis Pralgauskis -

This year EU started http://www.etwinning.net
I think It participating schools would be glad to hear of such moodle features, as Art proposed wink
In reply to Jurgis Pralgauskis

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Art Lader -
Well, maybe Martin will like the idea and will set up a little forum for us. approve

-- Art
In reply to Art Lader

Re: A Modest Proposal

by koen roggemans -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Translators
I also like the idea a lot. It could create gread bonds between teachers and between students on different continents and in different cultures. I'm married with the "belgian collegue" mary mentioned, so I've seen those discussions living in our house for several weeks last year. I think the world would benifit if we could establisch communication between young people from the 100 countries Moodle covers (or starting a little modest with 2 countries).

Oh, Jurgis,  I can't get your link working. Something wrong with it?

In reply to Art Lader

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Timothy Takemoto -

Martin, Art
If you feel it is a appropriate then I can set up a forum in Moodle for Language Teaching. It certainly would be language teaching, but it runs rather outside the objecting of the course. I think a "Student's Moodle" course would be more appropriate but i also think that the potential size of the response (from all those students world wide wondering how to use, or abuse, moodle) and conseqent potential load on the servers, did not encourage the ealy introduction of such a space.
Tim 

In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Tom Murdock -
I know Martin has things in the works, but if teachers want to spend some time at: facultyroom.org, I'd be happy to set-up a number of subject area courses for pedagogy and practice.  

Just email me with the specific courses you'd like.  Otherwise, feel free to use the existing generalized ones.

best,
Tom
In reply to Art Lader

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Martin Dougiamas -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
At the last few conferences (and also hinted at for version 2.0) I've talked about setting up something like this on a fairly major scale across all subject areas. It should be a separate site to moodle.org ...I'm still planning the details and I hate to talk too much about it before things are more solid but it will be comprehensive.
In reply to Art Lader

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Frances Bell -
We are doing something similar (but for University level students) with a Socrates Minerva project called Collaboration Across Borders.  During the first year of the project we have concentrated on collaborations between groups of students from the partners institutions but now  we are extending our networks.
We have implemented the CAB portal using moodle, and it is at  http://moodle.cabweb.net .  We offer specific collaboration spaces (like course) to be run by tutors, and are in the process of launching the HELP (Higher Education Learning Professionals ) and STudent networks.  We would welcome HE tutors to participate who may wish to organise international collaborations for their students, come to the portal and look for HELP.  The Student network is not quite ready for a public launch but we'll be sure to annouce here when it is.
So please do join us, look around and contact ELena Zaitseva if you need more information.
We are just starting a tutor discussion about the CAB ethos, an important issue in international and multi-cultural collaboration.
In reply to Art Lader

Re: A Modest Proposal

by W Page -
Happy Hollidays Art & Everyone!

I have been doing some brain storming about this.  You know I think this is just a wonderful idea Art.  I know we probably have to think on a small scale at first but (to not beat a word horse to death), what about "scalability"?  Maybe we should start thinking about,

   1. The creation of a foundation which would support
               1. Developing Software which would connect 2 or more Moodle sites for specific purposes.
               2. Creating a TOA (Tearms of Agreement) for Moodle sites using the software.
               3. Developing criteria for use of the software. [For example you must be a educational facility or a certain type of business, etc..]
               4. Provide the servers that would host this connecting software.
   2. Getting a group of Moodlers together that would
               1. Work on ideas
               2. Complete forms for grant submission to support the foundation, software creation and server costs.
               3. Write grants to support the foundation, software creation and server costs.
               4. Try to get international funding for it.  Possibly through the UN??

The Foundation would be non-profit and called something like maybe - Moodle Educational Foundation - (MEF) or whatever.  It could be under Moodle.org, associated with Moodle.org or indipendent but a friend or Moodle.org.

These are just my thoughts folks.  What do other folks think.

WP1

In reply to W Page

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Tom Murdock -
WP1,

I'd like to offer Thinking Distance (my small, non-profit company that was organized for the purposes you mentioned) as a place where some of this sharing could happen.

Our feet are on the ground now with some terrific clients. Now comes the time when we will write some grants to foundations to make it possible to extend Moodle's mission to schools that are in trouble, or to teachers who are feeling isolated, or to individuals that want to gather together (in the same spirit that we gather at moodle.org).  I think Martin has some great ideas about how to do this with his amazing ideas about future development, but much of the interaction could be happening with the Moodle that we have now, if we gather and start.

So this is an open invitation (among many others, I am sure).

best,
Tom
In reply to Tom Murdock

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Ger Tielemans -

I was wondering: trusted systems, why not simply use LDAP for that?

  1. I create a course for your (and my own) students
  2. I send a URL + course-key by email to you
  3. You give it your students
  4. Your student logs-in my system
  5. If my system cannot find the UN/PW in my own LDAP, it looks in my list of trusted (public visible) LDAPs. (Your LDAP is on that list)
  6. My system asks your LDAp if that UN/PW is ok
  7. If your system says OK, I create a record for that student and he can enter the course with the key..., enter the forums and the wikis
In reply to Ger Tielemans

Re: A Modest Proposal

by W Page -
Hi Ger!

This configuration sounds reasonable and do-able.  But, there may be some technical stickiness I do not know enough about.  I believe Tim indicated he could not use his LDAP server because of some restrictions on it.  So, what you are suggesting may be OK for many but not for all.

WP1
In reply to Tom Murdock

Re: A Modest Proposal

by W Page -
Hi Tom!

You seem to be already going towards what I am suggesting. However, since this is Art's idea I would like to see some input from him about it.

I think if we get started on this soon there could be something up and running summer/spring 2005.

I also think someone else was offering some server space. I think we will need all the help and sharing we can get to get this off the ground.

What are you feelings about a timeline?

Thanks for your offer Tim!

WP1

In reply to W Page

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Art Lader -
Merry Christmas, everyone.

As far as I am concerned, just seeing this happen in any reasonable way would be enough.  If there were just a place where Moodlers could go to find other Moodlers for online projects, I would be very happy, indeed.

I know that the Devil is always in the details, especially where international collaboration is concerned, and even more so, certainly, when we are talking about students.  My problem is that I am always inclined to say, "Let's just jump in! It will be great! Woohoo!"  Calmer, more reasonable people usually save me from myself and help me avoid at least the most obvious pitfalls and mistakes.

But it really does sound to me like Tom is ready to go. Is there some reason we should not accept his gracious offer?

Thanks,
Art




In reply to Art Lader

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Ulrike Montgomery -

Art,

what a great idea. We in Mannheim, Germany, are all for it. We can offer French, English and of course German. The idea of international contacts through Moodle is great. My 11th and 12th grade students are looking forward to it. I'm like you - let's just jump in! I'm not too worried about the technical details - there are plenty of experts out there. If there is anything we can do, just let us know - so far we have unlimited server space with our webhost.

Merry Christmas,

Ulrike

In reply to Art Lader

Re: A Modest Proposal

by W Page -
Hi Art and Ulreke!

So Art, would it be OK to ask Tom to:
  • Create a Moodle site on his server for this?
  • Create a General or Introductory Course & Forum on that site?
  • Hold a chat on the site within the next few days after letting the Moodle Community know about it?
  • Give the site a preliminary name like the Moodle Fellowship Group (To be changed at some later date) / No logo necessary?

What do you feel about it? If it is cool with you. Let's get on with it!!!


WP1

In reply to W Page

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Jeffery Watkins -

I'll do a custom theme and logo.

Give me an idea of the color scheme you all want...

Jeff

In reply to Jeffery Watkins

Re: A Modest Proposal

by W Page -
Hi Jeffery!

Thank you for the offer.  I am sure we are going to need one.  This will probably be discussed in whatever Tom "hooks up" for us at FacultyRoom.org.

WP1
In reply to W Page

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Tom Murdock -
WP1,
Why don't we start in the faculty room course (http://facultyroom.org/course/view.php?id=3)?  I have forums set-up regarding the creation of collaborations.  As we decide on our projects, we can keep faculty collaborations (courses) at the facultyroom.org site, and I'll create a separate installation for the student collaborations at a different installation/url...  if that sounds good with the group.

Sound ok?

best,
Tom
In reply to Tom Murdock

Re: A Modest Proposal

by W Page -
Hi Tom!

I have no objection to that approach.  We definately need a place to connect, discuss and prioritize.  Art!  We need you imput. big grin

WP1

In reply to Tom Murdock

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Mary Kaplan -

Tom,

Awesome start! Thanks so very much!

And thanks to all who had a hand in making this happen!

--Mary

In reply to Mary Kaplan

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Art Lader -
Wow, sounds like it's really going to happen. How cool! big grin

-- Art
In reply to W Page

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Art Lader -
I would like to go ahead and let Tom set something up for us and see how it goes!

-- Art
In reply to Art Lader

Re: A Modest Proposal

by W Page -
Hi Everyone!

Hey Tom! 
  • When can we schedule a chat at FacultyRoom.org?
  • What will the course be called for now?
We need to get the word out to other Moodlers about this. wink wink

WP1

In reply to W Page

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Tom Murdock -
WP1,

Why not jump over to the Teachers Using Moodle course for now? We can work out details there and then come back here with a proposal or an announcement.

Jump into that course and there are some forums about collaboration.

best,
Tom

It is a big old Moodle party. Everyone is invited. tongueout
In reply to Tom Murdock

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Art Lader -

> It is a big old Moodle party.
> Everyone is invited.

Woohoo! I'll bring the Glühwein!

-- Art

In reply to Ger Tielemans

Re: A Modest Proposal

by Gina Russell Stevens -

Ger,

Thanks so much for sharing these links. I'm going to post them at www.facultyroom.org right now.  That is where some of this discussion has migrated. In fact, on Tom Murdock's behalf, I extend our invitation to you (and any other interested moodlers) to join us there. 

All the best,
Gina

In reply to Art Lader

Electronic Tandem on Moodle (eTOM)

by Gary Cziko -

All:

Tony Hursh and I at the University of Illinois have set up Electronic Tandem on Moodle (eTOM) at http://www.tandemlearn.com

eTOM is for college/university foreign languages who want to communicate with Tandem language partners (e.g., student in U.S. learning Spanish and student in Mexico learning English).  It allows synchronous and asynchronous text, synchronous (via Skype) and asynchronous audio, and videoconferencing (via the Flash Communication Server).

It also has a Forum for teachers to find Tandem partner classes.

eTOM is open to guests visitors to check out.  If you are a teacher with a partner teacher or want to find a partner teacher on eTOM, let me know and I will provide you with an access key to enrol.

--Gary

In reply to Gary Cziko

Re: Electronic Tandem on Moodle (eTOM)

by Richard Treves -
Hi Gary,

Interested in what you have achieved tying synchronous audio to moodle, can I have a look?

Cheers

Richard
In reply to Richard Treves

Re: Electronic Tandem on Moodle (eTOM)

by Gary Cziko -

Richard:

Nothing fancy.  All I've done is set up the "SkypeMe" button on participants profiles and provided a Forum and Chat where students can arrange sessions via Audio, and a convention for adding a string to the Skype profile so that students can find each other via the Skype search function.

Anyone can enter eTOM (http://www.tandemlearn.com) via guest login.  Let me know via e-mail to g-cziko@uiuc.edu if you want to enrol.

--Gary