So I read through some posts, but I am still unclear on how the role of "Course Creator" works.
Our school just set up a Moodle server. Our systems administrator and I are trying to make this work. First it is SWEET. I am not a total computer n00b (like some of my colleagues) so I am getting the hang of using the resources and activities.
But to my problem, the initial set up we did was to make all of the teachers course creators, but I am thinking this is a bad idea. Today I was showing a teacher some of the things I had done, and when she enrolled in the class she could see the hidden items and could delete/edit those same items.
Should we have one (or two) course creators who initially set up a class. Then add the right users as the teachers of those classes? Would a teacher be able to edit/add/delete resources and activities?
As I type this, I think this is sounding better already, but I welcome any help with some initial guidelines. It would have been nice to have recieved training on this, but when we had to fight for the funds just for the server we didn't push hard for money to get trained. I guess that is what my summer is for....
Thanks
JS
the initial set up we did was to make all of the teachers course creators, but I am thinking this is a bad idea
You're right. It is a bad idea
Should we have one (or two) course creators who initially set up a class.
Don't confuse "set up" with "create." Course creation is a simple act: you press the new course button and voila: a new course. The setting up of the course (making the activities and resources etc.) is another job entirely.
The Course creator role only contains the permission needed to create courses. It does not contain the permissions needed to set them up. However (and this is the key point that many people fail to understand), when a user creates a course, Moodle automatically assigns the role of Teacher to that user within the newly-created course. It is the Teacher role that gives the user the ability to proceed with the setting up, if she chooses to do so. However she may choose instead to delegate the setting up to someone else. She can do this by assigning the Teacher role to the "normal" teacher, then unassigning herself from the Teacher role.
The administrator typically delegates course creation responsibilities to a handful of users by assigning the Course creator role to each of them in a particular category. For example, the administrator may assign the Course creator role to the math department supervisor in the Math category.
You're right. It is a bad idea
Should we have one (or two) course creators who initially set up a class.
Don't confuse "set up" with "create." Course creation is a simple act: you press the new course button and voila: a new course. The setting up of the course (making the activities and resources etc.) is another job entirely.
The Course creator role only contains the permission needed to create courses. It does not contain the permissions needed to set them up. However (and this is the key point that many people fail to understand), when a user creates a course, Moodle automatically assigns the role of Teacher to that user within the newly-created course. It is the Teacher role that gives the user the ability to proceed with the setting up, if she chooses to do so. However she may choose instead to delegate the setting up to someone else. She can do this by assigning the Teacher role to the "normal" teacher, then unassigning herself from the Teacher role.
The administrator typically delegates course creation responsibilities to a handful of users by assigning the Course creator role to each of them in a particular category. For example, the administrator may assign the Course creator role to the math department supervisor in the Math category.
However (and this is the key point that many people fail to understand), when a user creates a course, Moodle automatically assigns the role of Teacher to that user within the newly-created course.
I totally get this, and I thank you for such an articulate response.
A follow up question:
Since every teacher at my school at this point is a "Course Creator" would that be the reason I can go to a class (one I did not create), not have to enroll, and have the permissions in place to add activities and resources (and delete/edit them)?
I was really concerned when I was showing a colleague my class, she enrolled and could edit all my work. She wouldn't be as bad as some, but I could easily see someone trying to figure all of this Moodle stuff out and deleting a LOT of my work.
I totally get this, and I thank you for such an articulate response.
A follow up question:
Since every teacher at my school at this point is a "Course Creator" would that be the reason I can go to a class (one I did not create), not have to enroll, and have the permissions in place to add activities and resources (and delete/edit them)?
I was really concerned when I was showing a colleague my class, she enrolled and could edit all my work. She wouldn't be as bad as some, but I could easily see someone trying to figure all of this Moodle stuff out and deleting a LOT of my work.
"I was showing a colleague my class, she enrolled and could edit all my work."
Are you sure about this? I just tested this in my Moodle 1.9.
A course creator could enrol in a course but could not alter anything.
Are you sure about this? I just tested this in my Moodle 1.9.
A course creator could enrol in a course but could not alter anything.
Jeremy,
Jean-Pierre is correct. A user with only the Course creator role will be asked to enroll if they click on a course they did not create. If they do enroll, they are assigned the Student role within the course, which does not allow them to alter anything.
If your creators are allowed to enter such courses without enrolling, then they are getting the permission to do so from elsewhere (not from the Course creator role). Posible causes are...
Jean-Pierre is correct. A user with only the Course creator role will be asked to enroll if they click on a course they did not create. If they do enroll, they are assigned the Student role within the course, which does not allow them to alter anything.
If your creators are allowed to enter such courses without enrolling, then they are getting the permission to do so from elsewhere (not from the Course creator role). Posible causes are...
- Have you changed any user policies? (Site administration -> Users -> Permissions -> User policies)
- have you assigned the Teacher role to these users in the System context? (Site administration -> Users -> Permissions -> Assign system roles)
Thank all of you for the responses to Jeremy's question.
I am the "site admin" for this new school wide site and I am getting the sense that I have overshot a couple of the settings.
Are there any best practice suggestions for importing and / or adding faculty and students?
As I read John's post above, I get the notion that setting user role at the System level is the wrong place to do it? Should this only be set at the category level?
What is the default / recommended setting for Site administration -> Users -> Permissions -> User Policies?
Cheers, and thank you all for such a wonderful community and - although we are a long way from really using it - such a great tool for education.
I am the "site admin" for this new school wide site and I am getting the sense that I have overshot a couple of the settings.
Are there any best practice suggestions for importing and / or adding faculty and students?
As I read John's post above, I get the notion that setting user role at the System level is the wrong place to do it? Should this only be set at the category level?
What is the default / recommended setting for Site administration -> Users -> Permissions -> User Policies?
Cheers, and thank you all for such a wonderful community and - although we are a long way from really using it - such a great tool for education.
Hi Lauren,
There are no best practices per se, but I think it is unwise to change anything until you completely understand what you are doing. By then, you will realize that you need to change little or nothing! The predefined roles and the user policy defaults provide 99% of the behavior that users want. If you must change the behavior for certain users, it is to create simple new roles and assign them to those users in the appropriate contexts, or use overrides for a more tactical solution.
Always start with the job requirements: "What does this user need to be able to do in this context?" Then determine what permissions are needed, then allocate those permissions to roles/overrides. Never start by saying "I need a role that ..." This is the wrong perspective. Always start from the user requirements and work toward roles, not the other way. See this discussion for an example.
Don't change the user policy defaults. If you're tempted to do it, post here first and explain what you're trying to do. The Roles and Capabilities forum is the best forum for this. Changing user policies is the most common cause for the post "Help! I've lost my administrator privileges."
A general principle to follow: assign roles in the lowest possible context. For Teacher and Student, that means course. Assigning these roles in category or System context is almost always a mistake (notice that I did not say always, I said "almost always"). If you need to give teachers (small "t," meaning the user, not the role) additional responsibilities at, say, the category level, do it by creating a new simple role with the necessary permissions and assigning it to those users in the category context. If you study the Course creator role and understand how it works, you will see a good example of this pattern.
There are no best practices per se, but I think it is unwise to change anything until you completely understand what you are doing. By then, you will realize that you need to change little or nothing! The predefined roles and the user policy defaults provide 99% of the behavior that users want. If you must change the behavior for certain users, it is to create simple new roles and assign them to those users in the appropriate contexts, or use overrides for a more tactical solution.
Always start with the job requirements: "What does this user need to be able to do in this context?" Then determine what permissions are needed, then allocate those permissions to roles/overrides. Never start by saying "I need a role that ..." This is the wrong perspective. Always start from the user requirements and work toward roles, not the other way. See this discussion for an example.
Don't change the user policy defaults. If you're tempted to do it, post here first and explain what you're trying to do. The Roles and Capabilities forum is the best forum for this. Changing user policies is the most common cause for the post "Help! I've lost my administrator privileges."
A general principle to follow: assign roles in the lowest possible context. For Teacher and Student, that means course. Assigning these roles in category or System context is almost always a mistake (notice that I did not say always, I said "almost always"). If you need to give teachers (small "t," meaning the user, not the role) additional responsibilities at, say, the category level, do it by creating a new simple role with the necessary permissions and assigning it to those users in the category context. If you study the Course creator role and understand how it works, you will see a good example of this pattern.
Thank you, John.
I here you saying that granular permissions [at the course level] are the better choice than site permissions.
I believe I have reverted the site level permissions to the 'out of the box' state.
Thanks, again.
Lauren
I here you saying that granular permissions [at the course level] are the better choice than site permissions.
I believe I have reverted the site level permissions to the 'out of the box' state.
Thanks, again.
Lauren