Setting permissions for a new role in 1.7 - Problems

Setting permissions for a new role in 1.7 - Problems

by Kristina Schneider -
Number of replies: 7

I've been fiddling with something for hours now and I'm at a loss. I set a role up for a coordinator who can do the following tasks:

Users:
* Browse list of users - works fine!
* Add a new user (includes updating and deleting) - works fine!
... pretty much everything with user management which works well

Courses:
* Assign roles - works fine!
* Reports - works fine!
* Grades - it has the "Show All Students" option and it works.

However, my issue is the following. I have set the following to "Allow" (and no legacy permissions) but when I log in as the coordinator (who has the role properly assigned), the coordinator is not allowed unfortunately.

All are set to allow but the ones with X do not work properly.

Feedback:
X View a feedback
* Complete a feedback - works fine!
X Delete completeds
X Map courses to global feedbacks
X Edit items
X Create private template
X Create public template
X Delete template
X View reports

Quizzes:
X View quiz information
* Attempt quizzes - works fine!
X Manage quizzes
X Preview quizzes
X Grade quizzes manually
X View quiz reports
X Delete quiz attempts

Does anyone have any idea why this is happening?

FYI - We are using Moodle 1.7 and upgrading at this time is not an option.

Many thanks!
Kristina

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In reply to Kristina Schneider

Re: Setting permissions for a new role in 1.7 - Problems

by Tim Hunt -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers
When you say "the ones with X do not work properly" what exactly do you mean? Exactly what actions are you performing? What actually happens when you do? and what would you expect to happen instead? Thanks.
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In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: Setting permissions for a new role in 1.7 - Problems

by Kristina Schneider -

When you say "the ones with X do not work properly" what exactly do you mean?

What I'm saying is that I log in with a username that should have the permissions to do this, and I can't do the things I'm supposed to be able to do, that is see manage the quizzes and the feedback.

Exactly what actions are you performing? What actually happens when you do?

I go to a quiz and I try to see who has done the quiz and delete some attempts, but I can't get a list, I'm actually prompted to take the quiz.

I go to the feedback, again I'm prompted to fill it in but I can't see who has submitted feedback nor can I export the results.

and what would you expect to happen instead?

To be able to do all those things that I actually can do logged in as an admin. However, I need to create this profile with limited permissions for 2 staff. And the permissions that I set suggest that I can do this, but something, somewhere is overriding this and I can't for the life of me figure out what.

I double checked, in fact quadruple checked and had 2 other people check my settings and we are all at a loss of figuring out what is going on.

Thanks.

No thank you! Help would be so very, very appreciated as I'm a total loss what to do and I have to get this done.

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In reply to Kristina Schneider

Re: Setting permissions for a new role in 1.7 - Problems

by Tim Hunt -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers
Well, I am trying to help, but in order to do so, I need enough information to work out what is going on, so I am going to go on asking questions. I know you are probably frustrated, but being rude to people trying to help you is unlikely to be effective.

Can I check: when you say you are using 1.7, do you mean exactly 1.7, or a later 1.7.3 or something?

It looks like the quiz and feedback modules are failing to recognise that these users have the coordinator role and it is treating these people as students. At the moment I can't think of any logical explanation for that.

Here is one thing that might generate some useful evidence.:
  1. Log into your system as admin.
  2. Go to any quiz where the coordinator role does not work.
  3. Click on the Update this Quiz button.
  4. Click on the Roles tab.
  5. Click on the Override roles sub-tab.
  6. Click on the Coordinator role link.
You will see a table with lots of radio buttons. Ignore the radio buttons, but look at the highlighted backgrounds (See screenshot below). That will show you the capabilites that that role has in that activity before any overrides are applied. If you can tell us what you see there, that might give us some more clues about what the problem is.
Attachment capabilities.png
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In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: Setting permissions for a new role in 1.7 - Problems

by Kristina Schneider -

Well, I am trying to help, but in order to do so, I need enough information to work out what is going on, so I am going to go on asking questions. I know you are probably frustrated, but being rude to people trying to help you is unlikely to be effective.

I just re-read my post to you, perplexed, wondering how it could be interpreted as rude. I answered all your questions as carefully as I could. Am I frustrated with Moodle right now? You bet! Am I taking this frustration out on anyone? Nope. I'm a little more well balanced then that!

I really thought I made my gratefulness for your help clear in my final lines... "No thank you! Help would be so very, very appreciated as I'm a total loss what to do and I have to get this done." I'm very well aware that being rude to someone trying to help me would be counterproductive. From my perspective, I was conveing sincere thanks mixed with a little desperation. My apologies if I was not able to convey this to you.

Can I check: when you say you are using 1.7, do you mean exactly 1.7, or a later 1.7.3 or something?

Moodle 1.7.1+ (2006101010)

It looks like the quiz and feedback modules are failing to recognise that these users have the coordinator role and it is treating these people as students. At the moment I can't think of any logical explanation for that.

We come to the same conclusion on this.

Here is one thing that might generate some useful evidence.:

  1. Log into your system as admin.
  2. Go to any quiz where the coordinator role does not work.
  3. Click on the Update this Quiz button.
  4. Click on the Roles tab.
  5. Click on the Override roles sub-tab.
  6. Click on the Coordinator role link.

I followed this step-by-step...

You will see a table with lots of radio buttons. Ignore the radio buttons, but look at the highlighted backgrounds (See screenshot below). That will show you the capabilites that that role has in that activity before any overrides are applied. If you can tell us what you see there, that might give us some more clues about what the problem is.

Why tell when I can show! I unfortunately don't have any highlighted sections... could this have something to do with the theme that was built for this? It is simply a color variation on the chameleon theme. I'm hoping this screenshot can still provide you with information to identify the problem.

Again, thanks for your help! Sincerely.

roles.png

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In reply to Kristina Schneider

Re: Setting permissions for a new role in 1.7 - Problems

by Helen Foster -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators
Hi Kristina,

Thanks for your additional feedback.

Unfortunately it can be difficult trying to help with Moodle 1.7 problems, because a lot has changed in later versions. For example, the highlighted background that Tim mentions is only included in Moodle 1.8 onwards. Also, as you've no doubt found, testing a new role is very time-consuming, as any changes that you make only appear when a user with the new role next logs in.

Although you mentioned that upgrading at this time is not an option for you, bearing in mind the large number of roles-related bugs which have been fixed in Moodle 1.8, I would recommend that you consider upgrading sooner rather than later.

In the meantime, I'm wondering whether the problem you describe is caused by the coordinator requiring additional teacher capabilities to be allowed. I suggest you look at the list of allowed capabilities for the teacher role (via Administration > Users > Permissions > Define roles) and try allowing some of them, e.g. moodle/course:manageactivities or moodle/course:viewparticipants, for the coordinator role.

Best wishes and thanks in advance for your feedback. smile


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In reply to Helen Foster

Re: Setting permissions for a new role in 1.7 - Problems

by Kristina Schneider -

Thanks for your additional feedback.

And thank you for responding!

Unfortunately it can be difficult trying to help with Moodle 1.7 problems, because a lot has changed in later versions. For example, the highlighted background that Tim mentions is only included in Moodle 1.8 onwards. Also, as you've no doubt found, testing a new role is very time-consuming, as any changes that you make only appear when a user with the new role next logs in.

It is very time consuming, you are right! But what I find frustrating is that I set certain permissions which aren’t actually attributed. The options are in fact misleading.

Although you mentioned that upgrading at this time is not an option for you, bearing in mind the large number of roles-related bugs which have been fixed in Moodle 1.8, I would recommend that you consider upgrading sooner rather than later.

This is a very touchy subject, but unfortunately given the circumstances of this project, this is unlikely to be an option.

In the meantime, I'm wondering whether the problem you describe is caused by the coordinator requiring additional teacher capabilities to be allowed. I suggest you look at the list of allowed capabilities for the teacher role (via Administration > Users > Permissions > Define roles) and try allowing some of them, e.g. moodle/course:manageactivities or moodle/course:viewparticipants, for the coordinator role.

I’ve tried many combinations, I guess that’s about all I can do right now because it seems I’m running out of options quickly.

Best wishes and thanks in advance for your feedback.

Of course I’m quite grateful for the help that you and Tim have given me. However, and this I know is out of yours and Tim’s control, I have to say I’m really not impressed with this situation. Upgrading versions on a large project are not always possible - we usually rely on fixes for a particular version. I really hope that someone can shed some light on how we can get this done in 1.7.

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In reply to Kristina Schneider

Re: Setting permissions for a new role in 1.7 - Problems

by Tim Hunt -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers
I'm sorry we can't be more helpful, and sorry for misreading the tone of your earlier messages.

I would second what Helen says, that you need to do everything possible to avoid getting stuck on one Moodle version. You need a way to update so you can benefit from bug fixes and improvements. However, I also know how hard it is. We have to spend quite a big chunk of time on it here at the OU. The the payback for the effort is clear though. Look at this list of roles-related bugs fixed in 1.7.2 and 1.7.3, the list including bugs fixed up to 1.8.3 is even longer.

Just about the only way we developers have of releasing bug fixes is through point releases like 1.7.2 and 1.7.3. Well, the other mechanism is that you can get the fixes for individual bugs from the tracker, by looking on the Version Control tab, then you can apply those fixes to your Moodle manually, but that is not very scalable.


But I know all that is irrelevant to your current position. You need a solution now.

Since so many capabilities are misbehaving, I am inclined to think that the problem might be within the roles system and how it is combining capabilites, rather than with specific modules like the quiz.


Hang on. Here is a though. Can you look at the definition of some of the other roles, for instance Student. For the capabilities that student does not have, are the capabilities set to Prevent or Inherit. It should be Inherit. If it is Prevent, then the prevent from some other role might be cancelling out the Allow in the Coordinator role.
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