Wiki

Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher

 
Picture of Dick Willis
Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
 

I have a course set up with 8 groups. I'm encouraging my students to collaborate on a project using the wiki and some of them are getting the hang of it. The problem I'm having, though, is that when I log on as admin I can't see the wiki pages that the students have created or changed. What I do see is the "seed" material that I posted.

When I log on as a student in a particular group I can see and edit that groups wiki and see the other groups' wikis. What part of creating this wiki assignment can I set that will allow me to see and edit the wikis of all of the groups. Maybe I should be a member of each group?

Thanks for your assistance.

Dick

 
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Picture of Michael Schneider
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
 
Yes, that would be a neat feature ! Also when the groups are set to "Visible", not just the teacher but also the students should see each others Wikis....

Mike, what do you think about this, could you do that ?
 
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Picture of Mike Churchward
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
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If you have set up a wiki as a 'student' wiki, and you are the administrator, and the students have created their own wikis, you can view them all. When you click on it, you will see the first one (by student 'id'). In the upper right, you will see a drop-down that lets you see all the other student wikis.

If no students have created one, you will get the message "You cannot create this wiki, and none have been created to view.".

I've set it up intentionally so that the administrator (or teachers) cannot edit a student wiki, as this kind of violates its purpose. A group wiki, the administrator can edit.

Is this what you are seeing?

mike

 
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Picture of Ger Tielemans
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
 

Making small corrections to help the student? We are in an educational setting, not an open community. (Or another approach: When in Swiki a page is closed, it is possible to type comments in a commentbox on that page and the owner gets an automatic email.)

 
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Picture of Dick Willis
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
 

So, are you saying that, by design, I'm not supposed to be able to add anything to these pages? If so, why can't I see the pages they've created? That doesn't make any sense for any purpose. Especially since I can see them when I log on as a student in any group, I can see the pages that all groups have created.

What is Swiki? I don't see any way to add comments. Can you advise me how to do this?

Thanks

Dick

 
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Picture of Ger Tielemans
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
 

Sorry, Swiki is another implementation of Wiki, I am just a demanding user of eWiki and give my comments to M&M. So my comment here is that I think teachers should have always access, because we are an educational setting not a wiki community.

I use Swiki as a stand-alone program until this eWiki is fully integrated in Moodle. I like this integrated eWiki now very much: And I prefer the HTML-editor above the Wiki-simple-text-philosophy..

But this Swiki option (coomentbox) was very nice: the only thing a user had to do was place a commentbox symbol on the page, place his email in a "send me an email"" -field and lock the page. (Students can take ownership of a page when they put a lock on a individual page of a group-wiki.) A visitor sees then the locked page with the commentbox. As soon as the visitor types his comment and presses the comment-button under that box, the owner gets an email.There is no database behind it, pages are stored in XML-format.

Another option I did like was the possibility for a webuser with editor rights to create a webform instead of the standard fill-in screen. The page-storing mechanism makes collecting the content of the forms to difficult, no database..

Swiki is a standalone server that runs on Mac,  Unix, Windows.. We used it for several years at our secondary schools to collect experience with collab-work on a website.
Works great.

http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/swiki

The program Swiki is written in the Smalltalk version Squeak.
The pioneer Alan Kay is one of the founders. Their children project eToys is inspiring

http://www.squeakland.org/

During meetings they play the game to install and run this Swiki-server in less then ... seconds.

 
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Picture of Dick Willis
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
 
Thank you very much for the ideas and the insight. I'll check it out.
 
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Picture of Mike Churchward
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
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By design, the 'student' wikis were for the students to enter content only, yes. I can change it, but I want to make sure that it makes sense.

You should be able to see any student wiki though, so I'll try and recreate your problem. I can see any student wiki. I'll double check with groups and fix it as necessary.

Other activities, such as assignments and exercises work the same way - the student enters them and the teacher looks at them.

So just to be clear, the way it should work:

- teachers can see any created wiki,
- students can see their own wikis, teacher wikis, and group wikis (according to group rules)
- teachers can edit teacher and group wikis,
- students can edit their own wikis, and group wikis according to group wikis.

We can modify it so that teachers could edit student wikis, but I'd appreciate some feedback on that to make sure that makes sense. Again, I'm modeling that function on the bases that a wiki is like an assignment.

mike

 
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Picture of W Page
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
 
Hi Mike!

Why cannot another option be,
  • teachers can see and edit any student created WIKI which addresses or is for an assignment of any sort.

That would mean that teachers could see and edit
  • Their own wikis
  • Any student group wikis -
    • Teacher's student groups
    • Teacher's Assistants student groups, along with
      • Teacher Assistant's wikis for that activity and assignment
  • Any individual student wiki which is part of an activity (assignment) or side work in a group.

I also believe that personal wikis which no one but the students, teachers, admins maintain, view and edit should be allowed, I think however they should be limited to a certain number determined by the main administrator. If it is only a few students, teachers and admins and the institution has a large amount of diskspace they may not care how many personal wikis a student may have.

Of couse an administrator should have the ability to see all public wikis including any public Teacher wikis.

There is one other thing however, I feel instructors/teachers and administrators should be able to have group wiks and individual wikis that administrators cannot view. Again the question of how many may come up.

In essence, I feel that there should be much fexibility in how the wikis permissions should be determined with a policy sent out to other admins and to teachers as to what they are for a particular instrution so it is clear just how public their thoughts and work will be and if private personal wikis will be allowed.

Probably needs a Control Panel which addresses the following,

STATUS
TARGETS
Creation StatusMain Admin, Admins, Teachers, Teaching Assistants, Students, Others (?)
Type StatusIndividual, Groups
Number Status
(of each type for....)
Main Admins, Admins, Teachers, Teaching Assistants, Students, Others (?).
View StatusPrivate, Public, Group, [Parents (?) - To check if student is doing assigned work - Eventually].
Edit StatusMain Admins, Admins, Teachers, Teaching Assistants, Students, Others (?),

I am beginning to understand wiki's more and more and see what great potential they have in a classroom. The ability to post notes as Ger has indicated and have an e-mail sent out to all involved in a group or individual wiki to notify them or the individual of a change or some type of intervention sounds really cool. If this cold be added it would be nice. Swiki however appears to need a special server to accomplish that function.

Time to step back and let the MASTERS work.

WP1
 
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Picture of Ger Tielemans
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
 

I understand what you mean about personal wiki integrity, but having the power as a teacher does not mean you should use it that much. (Management by exception.)
A wiki is a different assigment because it can become a very complex construct over time.. Annotating on the page that needs comment is then the most simple one..

Building a commentbox is more complex then giving the page free for the teacher. (A commentbox couild be offered to anyone: but the student/owner must then be able to decide...)

 
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Picture of Michael Schneider
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
 
Some of the problems rising here may be my fault. When using the Links on the left, the userid and additional Info is not always appended to the link. The next version will have drop-downs on the top as Martin wished and all the needed Information will be present.
 
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Picture of Tom Murdock
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
 
As someone who keeps hoping to find a way to re-imagine a way of commenting on papers, I'd vote for the chance to edit a student wiki. My intention is to use a different color (blue, red, whatever), so that my comments contrast, but being secluded to a comment box (journal box, assignment box, etc.) really limits the access I have for influencing student work on-line (and many teachers need to influence student writing as much as possible).

Since students are able to flip back to earlier versions (pre-teacher's comments), I'm not sure of the harm. (I would like some safeguard from having a kid erase the version that has my careful comments, though).

best,
Tom

p.s. Without a doubt, I'm with the others who believe that teachers and admins should be able to see all wikis.
 
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Picture of John DeBruyn
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
 

Hi Mike, Great stuff.

I would like to suggest the option for student assignments to be edited by the teacher so that comments could be interlined in the work as teachers do with their comments on hard copy.  However, I am prejudiced by years of experience with totally open wikis--where the users are all on their honor. 

The other use for one-on-one, teacher and student pages, would be to have the assignment pages available for use as student maintained, teacher-commentable journals as part of the wiki environment. 

I am a wiki buff from way back ... the "inventor" of the wiki sandbox and active participant in Ward's wiki. With Ward's help as host and mentor, I maintained an experiment back in 97-99 with a wiki devoted to continuing education, collaborative information sharing, course development and publishing for lawyers and accountants. 

I am anxious to use the wiki module that you all have in the works.  Thanks for all that you are doing, John

 
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Picture of Ger Tielemans
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
 

an annotation button on the page (yellow) could be one of the options? Then it stays the integrity of the student, his work, but the comment is there where it belongs?

An example: http://y-notes.sourceforge.net/

 
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Picture of Dick Willis
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
 

No, I have set up groups. I initially logged on as a student in each group so that I could post the original essay that each group prepared to give all of the students a place to begin.

Now, some have edited their pages but what I see is just what I posted. Like I said, I can see what they've posted if I log on as a student in any group. I can only edit the group's pages when I log on in that group (which is as it's supposed to be).

I'm not so much interested in editting their pages (though being able to post comments would be nice) but I can't even see what they've produced.

Thanks for your help.

Dick

 
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Picture of Mike Churchward
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
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I'll look into this. You should be able to see all changes.

mike

 
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Picture of Mike Churchward
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
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Alright, I double-checked the code and tested it. I was wrong; I implemented it such that teachers can edit any wiki - even student ones. So, if you're not getting that functionality, something's wrong.

Now, there is an issue with changing the group mode on an existing wiki. I haven't figured out how to resolve this yet. If you were to change a group wiki, that was previously set to 'no groups' to 'separate' or 'visible', and it already had wiki entries, you would orphan that pages that were originally created. The effect you would get is that the teacher would always see the orphaned wiki first when they looked at the wiki. The teacher can see the real wikis by selecting them from the drop-down list. If the teacher edits the orphaned one, only they will see it. No students from the course would ever see the orphaned one.

So, to summarize:

  1. A teacher can edit and view all wikis, regardless of type and group setting.
  2. Group wikis can be edited by anyone in the group. If the group setting is 'no groups', then anyone in the course can edit them.
  3. Group wikis can be viewed by anyone, for 'no groups' or 'visible groups', or by members of the groups for 'separate groups'.
  4. Teacher wikis can be edited by teachers only.

If you are not seeing this functionality, make sure you have the latest code from CVS, and try a fresh wiki. Don't change the group setting once you have entered wiki entries. Let me know any anomalies you see.

mike

 
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Picture of Mike Churchward
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
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Since the teachers can edit student wikis, they should also be able to create them for the student. I will put the code in for this today.

Now, some other questions:

Do we want to handle this differently for groups?
Should the teacher be a member of the student's group to create the student's wiki?
Should teacher editing privileges affect this?
Should a teacher from a different group be able to view a student's wiki if groups is set to 'separate'?

My thoughts:

  1. Editing teachers and administrators can view/change/create entries for any wiki.
  2. Non-editing teachers not assigned to a specific group can view/change/create entries for any wiki.
  3. Non-editing teachers assigned to a specific group can view/change/create entries for any wiki in their group, and view wikis in other groups for 'visible' groups.

Make sense?

mike

 
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Picture of Ger Tielemans
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
 
It makes sense, yes.
 
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Picture of Dick Willis
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
 
That's pretty consistent with what I'm wanting to do in my situation right now. I don't think the teacher should have to be a member of the group.
 
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Picture of Mike Churchward
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
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I've just checked a new version into CVS that allows teachers to create wikis for any of their students and groups according to their assigned group and edit/non-edit status.

Please try it out and let me know if you see any problems.

mike

 
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Picture of Dick Willis
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
 
Well, Mike, that is exactly what I've done. I know that I switched the type of wiki it was "mid-stream" and that is the response I am getting. I guess my best bet would be to start over. I have told my students that we're just experimenting with this feature so I don't think they'll be too crazed by this, unless there's a way to bring all of the created pages together somehow. Anyway, thanks for your help.
 
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Picture of Mike Churchward
Re: Seeing Wiki pages as admin or teacher
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Don't blow away your work yet. You should be able to edit the existing wikis from the drop-down list.

The updates I'm doing will allow you to create them, if they haven't been created, and you can always cut and paste from the orphaned wiki.

mike

 
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