How do institutions in the Google Workspace send their Moodle-generated e-mails?

How do institutions in the Google Workspace send their Moodle-generated e-mails?

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Number of replies: 16
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
Hi all

Before I blabber something confused, I must say that I won't touch anything Google without a ten feet pole (and don't regret it). My misfortune is that I'm helping a large institution which is something Google Workspace aka Education - I'm yet to find out which package exactly. Mails coming from them have in their header strings like "from mail-xxN-xNNNN.google.com" so I know that they send their mail through Google.

Now their issue,  sending out the mail generated in their Moodle. Apparently there is some sort of a "Cloud Service" which claims to handle bulk mail to Google mail boxes, but too expensive. They've tried their own SMTP, it was quickly black-listed by Moodle.

BTW, the numbers are large. My rough estimation is 5-10 k mails per day on peak days.

I would think, since they are paid customers and the recipients are their own users, Google provided SMTP server should be capable of handling such "bulk mail". The current situation is that, no outgoing mail from Moodle.
sad

What would you suggest? Is it a matter of configuring their own "Education Account" on Google properly to allow such numbers or does one has to run a SMTP server on own? I'm OK with running mail servers, but want to investigate the Google way of doing this.

I've read Email_setup_gmail - kind of depressing.


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In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: How do institutions in the Google Workspace send their Moodle-generated e-mails?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers
Have you seen:
'SoS', Ken

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In reply to Ken Task

Re: How do institutions in the Google Workspace send their Moodle-generated e-mails?

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
Hi Ken

On https://support.google.com/a/answer/2956491?hl=en. Google documentation is of high-quality, I must say.

So the plan is: The first station is my own SMTP server. Then, instead of it delivering the mails directly to the MX of the recipients, to relay the mails through Google's SMTP. Makes sense.

The golden question is, where do I get the credentials for the Google SMTP? The document talks of "as user" and "as organization". Does it mean I have a choice? If "as user", who is the user? And the organization gets a central admin login from Google, I guess.

The good news is that the e-mail limits are quire generous. They should be sufficient for my people. But I observe the "as organization" numbers are much higher than the "as user" numbers.
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In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: How do institutions in the Google Workspace send their Moodle-generated e-mails?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers
The Google user you setup in Moodle for this 'feat', must be a system level user in their Google Edu domain - can't use just any gmail.com or entitygoogle.domain user.  And that system level account must have access to any/all related Google API's for the Edu's Workspace.

You probably don't have that level of access to their google domain setup.

That's about all I can tell ya! smile

'SoS', Ken


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In reply to Ken Task

Re: How do institutions in the Google Workspace send their Moodle-generated e-mails?

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
Ken, thanks for introducing me to the (Google) system level account. I can take up from there with the other party.

About the access, No, they are willing. It would be dumb, if I'm called to solve their problem and they don't give me the access - even if the solution is just RTFM, in this case Read Your Fine Manual.
wink
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In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: How do institutions in the Google Workspace send their Moodle-generated e-mails?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers
Welcome!
"About the access, No, they are willing. It would be dumb, if I'm called to solve their problem and they don't give me the access"

Well, ya never know!   That level of an account is like giving the keys to the city.  The entity might want it solved, but the person who holds the keys to the city may not be cooperative.

Have a situation just like that ... and that person has now retired and works with the entity still on a part-time basis - doesn't come into office - and for all practical purposes, outside of any influence by the former employer.  He owns them!

Think there might be an alternative which might be easier if that person doesn't want to grant keys to the city.   SMTP via SendGrid Key API.   You could use your own creds in SendGrid.  SendGrid does provide all that is necessary - MX,SPF,DKIM, etc. records for the relay.   Very little setup in Moodle.  And if that works, then transition to another person within the entity where they are then in total control is much easier (no keys to city involved).

Good luck!
'SoS', Ken



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In reply to Ken Task

Re: How do institutions in the Google Workspace send their Moodle-generated e-mails?

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
Hi Ken

You wrote:
> The entity might want it solved, but the person who holds the keys to the city may not be cooperative.

No, not in this case. Remember at the beginning I said that I'm helping. These are mature people, they know to accept help they need to stretch their hands.
wink

> ... and that person has now retired and works with the entity still on a part-time basis - doesn't come into office - and for all practical purposes, outside of any influence by the former employer. He owns them!

Poor management. No external grass root movement can save them.

> Think there might be an alternative which might be easier

No, thanks! The entity has decided for a path, Google or what not is there funeral. I will either guide them along that path or I quit.
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In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: How do institutions in the Google Workspace send their Moodle-generated e-mails?

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
I read in Email setup gmail that,

2. Daily limit of 500 sent messages. There is a daily limit on any one google account of 500 individual email messages, or 2000 recipients across all emails. Your account can get blocked if you go over this on a regular basis. If you have more than 500 users, it will only take one message to the front-page news forum to exceed this quota.

Is this valid even if the entity has subscribed to a Google Workspace for Education?

Edit: Found limits increase for paid accounts. Still needs that explained for a non-googler.
wink

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In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: How do institutions in the Google Workspace send their Moodle-generated e-mails?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers
To add to confusion ... sad

https://support.google.com/mail/answer/81126?sjid=7255309444372736905-NA

SPF

SPF prevents spammers from sending unauthorized messages that appear to be from your domain. Set up SPF by publishing an SPF record at your domain. The SPF record for your domain should reference all email senders for your domain. If third-party senders aren't included in your SPF record, messages from these senders are more likely to be marked as spam. Learn how to set up your SPF record to authorize all email senders for your domain.

https://support.google.com/a/answer/10685031#more-senders

DKIM

Receiving servers use DKIM to verify that the domain owner actually sent the message. Turn on DKIM for the domain that sends your email.

Important: Sending to personal Gmail accounts requires a DKIM key of 1024 bits or longer.

https://support.google.com/a/topic/2752442

ARC

ARC checks the previous authentication status of forwarded messages. If a forwarded message passes SPF or DKIM authentication, but ARC shows it previously failed authentication, Gmail treats the message as unauthenticated.

DMARC

DMARC lets you tell receiving servers what to do with messages from your domain that don’t pass SPF or DKIM. Set up DMARC by publishing a DMARC record for your domain. To pass DMARC authentication, messages must be authenticated by SPF or DKIM. The authenticating domain must be the same domain that's in the message From: header.

When you set up DMARC, you can then optionally set up BIMI to add your brand logo to messages sent from your domain.

https://support.google.com/a/topic/2759254

Learn about your domain’s reputation with Postmaster Tools.

https://support.google.com/mail/answer/9981691?visit_id=638220842116322063-4273310664&rd=1

Just for grins, look at the header of a message you get from these forums.

'SoS', Ken

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In reply to Ken Task

Re: How do institutions in the Google Workspace send their Moodle-generated e-mails?

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
Hi Ken

Thanks for the compiled information! Unfortunately all that do not answer my question. I repeat:

Is this Email_setup_gmail valid even if the entity has subscribed to a Google Workspace for Education?

 

(Edited by Mary Cooch - original submission Sunday, 11 June 2023, 2:41 PM)

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In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: How do institutions in the Google Workspace send their Moodle-generated e-mails?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers
Suggest you find contacts of true Google for Edu admins and see how many actually attempt integration with Moodle.   Doubt there are very many in these forums that could answer! :|

Maybe:

Did find this:

"That's correct, when you send messages with authentication, using the SMTP Relay service, the per user limit is:  10,000 messages in a 24-hour period.  If the envelope sender is not a user registered with your Google Workspace account, the per-user limits don't apply. Only org-wide limits apply then."

'SoS', Ken



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In reply to Ken Task

Re: How do institutions in the Google Workspace send their Moodle-generated e-mails?

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
Ken

That is also how I understood it. Those numbers are too low for that institution. That's why asked again.

I will forward this information to the IT team of the institution I am asking this question for. Thanks a lot!
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In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: How do institutions in the Google Workspace send their Moodle-generated e-mails?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers
If you don't mind ...

'devils are always in the details' ... you've given an estimation of per day from a single moodle instance?  The institution IT couldn't give something more exacting?

The 'institution' itself ... is it a Uni with colleges? or what?

"org-wide limits apply"

so that would be like TLD.org.  But what of 'collegeofX.TLD.org - granted that's a subdomain, but in google setup could be treated as another org?

Even if docs say limits, what entity the size of Google would pass up the chance to 'brag' - they have to deliver, of course.

Just thinking out loud! smile
'SoS', Ken

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In reply to Ken Task

Re: How do institutions in the Google Workspace send their Moodle-generated e-mails?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers
Follow up ... more thinking out loud ...
an internal (priviate IP) outbound mail load balancer - once # of messages threshold is reached - envelop changes from TLD.org to TLD.net.  Both TLD's a valid for Institution.


'SoS', Ken

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In reply to Ken Task

Re: How do institutions in the Google Workspace send their Moodle-generated e-mails?

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
Hi Ken

I don't mind at all! ;)

Ultimately the info is for the IT team of the university. They are the people will follow up the Google front. (You didn't expect me there, right?) I just passed the link to this discussion to them.
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In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: How do institutions in the Google Workspace send their Moodle-generated e-mails?

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers
Why are you the 'man in the middle'?   Would seem to me that a member of their IT team would be the moodle admin and should be able to post in these forums.  Too shy? :|

Do have one more suggestion ... depending upon how they are currently setup with mail/SMTP on their moodle instance ... install Logwatch and set it to a level 10 - report it all.   A section of that daily email report deals with EMails from that server.

'SoS', Ken

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In reply to Ken Task

Re: How do institutions in the Google Workspace send their Moodle-generated e-mails?

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
Ken, Why don't they ask here? That I don't know. It is true that I'm the middle-man. And I want to stay the middle-man. As you know, I won't touch anything Google even with a ten feet pole.

About the further information, it is up to you. AFAIC, they already have enough to start the journey.
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