Moodle in English: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

I have a somewhat functional site. Boost is totally broken, but Classic is sort of working.

Several screenshots are here.

https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/107hfzCrP0cbF0amVKNH_I2QYA-vywYHe

Actually the main page is somewhat working now, but none is the "clickable" items, like account dropdown, Search, Notifications, Chat, etc.. work.

Only the Dashboard and Site Administration Links.

Under Site Administration, I can't click any tabs, but the left hand menu work. Block editing doesn't work, either.

I get these two groups of text, the first two lines are cut off:

line 8923 of /lib/adminlib.php: call to require()
line 8804 of /lib/adminlib.php: call to admin_get_root()
line 28 of /admin/search.php: call to admin_externalpage_setup()

parent does not exist!

line 943 of /lib/adminlib.php: call to debugging()
line 79 of /admin/settings/privacy.php: call to admin_category->add()
line 8923 of /lib/adminlib.php: call to require()
line 8804 of /lib/adminlib.php: call to admin_get_root()
line 28 of /admin/search.php: call to admin_externalpage_setup()

parent does not exist!

line 943 of /lib/adminlib.php: call to debugging()
line 68 of /admin/settings/privacy.php: call to admin_category->add()
line 8923 of /lib/adminlib.php: call to require()
line 31 of /admin/search.php: call to admin_get_root()

parent does not exist!

line 943 of /lib/adminlib.php: call to debugging()
line 79 of /admin/settings/privacy.php: call to admin_category->add()
line 8923 of /lib/adminlib.php: call to require()
line 31 of /admin/search.php: call to admin_get_root()

I do have a backup, and honestly, wouldn't be a huge loss if I had to rebuild, but if it's a fairly easy fix, then I would do that.
I removed a few plugins that were older and only have Classic and Boost installed now.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Shane Farmer發表於2022年 04月 26日(週二) 05:27

I found this post as I started to receive a few other errors regarding core_renderer_maintenance.php. I fixed those according to Joanne Tucker's post here https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=423180

I thought this fixed the errors with notification, search, etc., but it works sometimes, but usually not. This also introduced another error about the community block, but I removed that. Now I get these Errors in Site Administration->Plugin Overview. The errors are gone for the Home Page, but still can't click on many items.

line 943 of /lib/adminlib.php: call to debugging()
line 68 of /admin/settings/privacy.php: call to admin_category->add()
line 8923 of /lib/adminlib.php: call to require()
line 538 of /lib/classes/plugininfo/base.php: call to admin_get_root()
line 1850 of /admin/renderer.php: call to core\plugininfo\base->get_settings_url()
line 351 of /admin/renderer.php: call to core_admin_renderer->plugins_control_panel()
line 217 of /admin/plugins.php: call to core_admin_renderer->plugin_management_page()

parent does not exist!

line 943 of /lib/adminlib.php: call to debugging()
line 79 of /admin/settings/privacy.php: call to admin_category->add()
line 8923 of /lib/adminlib.php: call to require()
line 538 of /lib/classes/plugininfo/base.php: call to admin_get_root()
line 1850 of /admin/renderer.php: call to core\plugininfo\base->get_settings_url()
line 351 of /admin/renderer.php: call to core_admin_renderer->plugins_control_panel()
line 217 of /admin/plugins.php: call to core_admin_renderer->plugin_management_page()

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Shane Farmer發表於2022年 04月 26日(週二) 05:57

OK. I found this thread about some old files that weren't needed, but still present. https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=371498

So I deleted those and ended up no visible errors. The notification icon, etc., still don't work, and the tabs in Site Administration still aren't clickable on most pages. It is repeatable, that If I go to Development->Third Party Libraries, it does work on the notification area.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Ken Task發表於2022年 04月 26日(週二) 06:14

A member the Softac Team is a member here in forums.
Here is that persons profile on Moodle Forums:
https://moodle.org/user/view.php?id=1468811&course=5

Good luck!

And, maybe an offer ... depending upon responses to questions below:

How are you hosted? Shared/Dedicated VPS? Who is hosting provider?

System Linux? IF so, do you have the ability to ssh into server or does your 'panel' have a Terminal icon? How about a Git icon?

I'll PM you .. please respond there!

'SoS', Ken

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Rick Jerz發表於2022年 04月 26日(週二) 21:50

In addition to what Ken has provided, I will mention that if you do an "advanced search" for the Softac member's name, you will see that this person has made about a half dozen posts, recently.

For example, here is one that I like: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=433931#p1745918

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Shane Farmer發表於2022年 04月 26日(週二) 23:41

Thanks for the replies. I sent in a ticket to them. Will reply back with info on the outcome. I noticed today that I can't edit the password for a user, either. Hoping a simple fix for all of those issues. Or just start from scratch.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Shane Farmer發表於2022年 04月 27日(週三) 04:18

My issue seems related to this:
https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=393570&parent=1587113

If I disable JS Cache, it's fine. Now to track down the plugin...

This fixes not being to click on Navbar items, changing a password, and clicking tabs working in Site Administration.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Brijesh Kothari發表於2022年 04月 27日(週三) 13:49

Hi Shane,

Can you please try to purge all cache and check if that resolves the issue :
https://docs.moodle.org/28/en/Purge_all_cache

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Shane Farmer發表於2022年 04月 27日(週三) 21:23

This does not help.

I get this in Developer Tools, just now sure how to actually read it and deal with it:
Uncaught TypeError: Cannot call a class as a function
at d (events.js:4229:3129)
at b (events.js:4229:9251)
at first.js:726:45
at Object.execCb (require.min.js:5:12861)
at b.check (require.min.js:5:6615)
at b. (require.min.js:5:9036)
at require.min.js:5:814
at require.min.js:5:9497
at each (require.min.js:5:289)
at b.emit (require.min.js:5:9465)

Not sure if that is the relevant piece to this issue or now.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Brijesh Kothari發表於2022年 05月 3日(週二) 20:55

Hi Sir,

Thank you for opening a support ticket with us. We checked this in detail and cannot find the cause of the issue.

After reading several posts on moodle forums it seems the issue is caused due to some plugin that is not compatible with Moodle 4

I suggest you to please disable the plugins one by one and check which one solves the issue.

The issue seems to be due to plugin and not a Softaculous issue.

To confirm this I tried to upgrade Moodle installation manually (without Softaculous) on your site by following the Moodle Upgrade instructions and I could still replicate the same issue.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Leon Stringer發表於2022年 05月 3日(週二) 22:11

When Softaculous attempts to upgrade Moodle it leaves the previous version's source code files behind. These shouldn't be there (the documentation says: Do NOT copy new files over the old files) and these can conflict with the version in use.

Ensure the old files are not present. These steps are based on the Moodle upgrade instructions:

Move all files and folders from the Moodle source code folder into a backup folder.
Download and extract the Moodle 4.0 files into the source code folder.
Copy config.php from the backup folder into the source code folder, along with any additional plugins and themes.

I can see around 400 files from Moodle 3.11 on your site currently that should not be present for Moodle 4.0.

If I've understood this comment correctly, Softaculous say their installer is only supported for installation of new Moodle sites, not upgrades.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Brijesh Kothari發表於2022年 05月 4日(週三) 16:12

Hi Leon,

>> When Softaculous attempts to upgrade Moodle it leaves the previous version's source code files behind. These shouldn't be there (the documentation says: Do NOT copy new files over the old files) and these can conflict with the version in use.

We do this because the Moodle Upgrade documentation also says to copy the plugins and themes user has installed manually from the old source to the new directory. From what we had analyzed earlier it is not possible to determine (programmatically) if a plugin in the old moodle folder is a custom plugin or the one shipped with Moodle Core. Correct me if this has changed or if I am wrong. I also forgot the folder where these plugins are saved, can you help me with the path where plugin folders are saved ?

Having said that we delete the files/folders mentioned in (does this do the same thing) before copying the new version moodle files :

upgrade_stale_php_files_present() function in lib/upgradelib.php

>> If I've understood this comment correctly, Softaculous say their installer is only supported for installation of new Moodle sites, not upgrades.

No I think I could not explain myself correctly there. I have updated the response :

https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=434114#p1747083

I would like to test the manual upgrade steps i.e. move the existing codebase :

1. copy the new files in an empty folder

2. move the config.php files

3. move the plugin files

4. upgrade the database

I am stuck at move the plugin files and cannot find the folder where the plugins are saved if someone can help with the plugins folder path I can perform the upgrade and check if the JS issue is resolved after updating using the above method then we will implement the same in Softaculous upgrade for Moodle.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Visvanath Ratnaweera發表於2022年 05月 4日(週三) 16:44

Hi Brijesh

You wrote:
> because the Moodle Upgrade documentation also says to copy the plugins and themes user has installed manually from the old source to the new directory.

Could you please give the source? This is what I read under https://docs.moodle.org/400/en/Upgrading#Install_the_new_Moodle_software :

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Brijesh Kothari發表於2022年 05月 4日(週三) 17:43

On the same link if you can find the 4th point :
As mentioned above, if you had installed any plugins on your site you should add them to the new code tree (Moodle directory structure) now.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Visvanath Ratnaweera發表於2022年 05月 4日(週三) 22:38

Hi

You wrote in the other sub-thread:
> How do we distinguish if the plugin was a core plugin or was a plugin installed by user manually ?

The only advice I can give you is to practice manually before automating! It means, install as many plug-ins as possible - there are 1996 in the official repository - in an older Moodle release and march the site forward.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Brijesh Kothari發表於2022年 05月 18日(週三) 15:34

Thanks will follow this.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Ken Task發表於2022年 05月 4日(週三) 21:34

@Shane ... sorry you are trapped in infinite loop!

@Brijesh Kothari

"I am stuck at move the plugin files and cannot find the folder where the plugins are saved if someone can help with the plugins folder path I can perform the upgrade"

Maybe you are mis-communicating again with this question. There isn't a single 'plugins' directory for all plugins. If user installed a non-core theme, that non-core theme is in /themes/. Ditto if user installed an addon report plugin, then that addon report plugin is in /report.

Those directories should be *copied* to new code at same locations recursively and with same ownerships/permissions ... not moved. Moving would mean user would have to manually move back those directories in order to revert back to old version should an upgrade fail.

"From what we had analyzed earlier it is not possible to determine (programmatically) if a plugin in the old moodle folder is a custom plugin or the one shipped with Moodle Core."

Moodle does this ... just not during an upgrade but after.

So I would agree with Leon ... Softac works with fresh installs, but not upgrades.

While this doesn't help Shane at present, maybe Softac should develop a true moodle plugin/addon to handle updates as well as upgrades. Suggested that before, but guess didn't fit commercial nature of Softac (even though it does as there are commercial plugins for moodle!)

The makers of MAMP (a free product), at one time, provided a .sh script to upgrade moodle code via side-loading upgraded version of moodle core code via git. That didn't do plugins ... just core.

In the past there has been discussion about updating/upgrading moodle core code + all plugins. Plugins would have had to be installed via git pointed to the developers git repo for the plugin.

There is one thing I haven't seen in these discussions ... assumption is moodle code is in a /moodle directory ... but many sites have moodle code at the document root of the site ... which could be /var/www/html/ or /home/accountlogin/domain/ or added to that path a 'public_html' or just /home/accountlogin/public_html/ depending upon how hosted. Now one could be 'messing' with config of the web service itself - document root.

Do know that git installed moodles don't have the same consideratons/issues.

'SoS', Ken

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Brijesh Kothari發表於2022年 05月 4日(週三) 22:30

@Ken

Can you answer this ? How do we distinguish if the plugin was a core plugin or was a plugin installed by user manually ?

If the user has to move the plugin files manually there is no point in offering auto upgrade so we want to do it programmatically so it is easy for the user.

>> Suggested that before, but guess didn't fit commercial nature of Softac (even though it does as there are commercial plugins for moodle!)

I am here to resolve the issues it was not a question of a commercial or non-commercial and it has never been.

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Ri: Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Sergio Rabellino發表於2022年 05月 4日(週三) 23:21

A module (the "M" in Moodle stays for "modular") it'a part of the "core" if it's distributed directly into the moodle's download (zip file or tgz here: https://download.moodle.org/releases/latest/) or through the git repository (https://github.com/moodle/moodle).

Any other module it's a third-party plugin which has to be installed by the user

Please note that from time to time, a third-party plugin migrates into the core (the latest one is the BBB plugin AFAIK) so, usually, some "special" actions could be required to substitute the old module (third plugin) to the new one (core plugin).
As an example, moving from mod_hvp (third-party plugin) to mod_h5pactivity (core), either H5P resource modules for the "same thing", require launching a "migrate" script.

HTH

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Re: Ri: Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Visvanath Ratnaweera發表於2022年 05月 4日(週三) 23:56

Hi Sergio

The message to the OP is that plug-ins are a complex story. I'm nitpicking: The example mod_hvp vs mod_h5pactitiy has a flaw. One doesn't have to _move_ from one to the other. At least in the latter 3.x releases both may co-exist.

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Ri: Re: Ri: Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Sergio Rabellino發表於2022年 05月 5日(週四) 00:25

Sure, technically you're right, but how to tell teachers that there are two activities with the same name, but different icon colour?

It's simpler moving away from the older one and embrace the newer one.

Another example (which caused panic to me today ...) it's the old access rule plugin safeexambrowser substituted by the new core plugin "seb"... They stay together, no clear errors are shown, but the access to the quiz protected by SEB doesn't work.

I would like to say that you can't write down a list of "core" and "non-core" modules and think that you never will change these lists in the (near) future, it's a matter of moodle knowledge and each plugin has a history that you should accept to follow when you install it.
No simple way: "Moodle is not Wordpress"...

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Re: Ri: Re: Ri: Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Ken Task發表於2022年 05月 5日(週四) 01:09

+1 ... and I can provide another example: A few versions of Moodle ago, Google Oauth2 Auth ... started as an addon, then became part of core. To make it work as an addon, there was an additional line to add to a core file that the OP had to make manually. Oops ... editing a core file.

When it became part of core ... old plugin needed to be erased, the edit to the other core file had to be removed, and the mdl_user table had to change data in certain columns of that table - just the presence of the new ability in auth would not correct any of that ... once again, OP had to do those manually.

@Sergio is right on target, IMHO!

Again .. sorry Shane ... doesn't appear you've gotten any closer to resolution. From what I read, you did give the Softac person access to your site, is that correct?

Wanna another set of eyes? PM me the info! I'll do it for free!

'SoS', Ken

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Re: Ri: Re: Ri: Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Visvanath Ratnaweera發表於2022年 05月 5日(週四) 23:53

Hi Sergio

You said:
> Sure, technically you're right,

What you don't say! I inadvertently wiped out the whole collection of (old) H5P activities of a site during the new and old H5P confusion!

> but how to tell teachers that there are two activities with the same name, but different icon colour?

I hate to explain the teachers something I don't understand myself. I read what the moderator of H5P forum wrote (link in my previous post) a couple of times. I learned more details but can't understand Why? My life experience says if I can't find a rational reason, it must be something political. But I am the wrong person to talk politics.

> It's simpler moving away from the older one and embrace the newer one.

Not me! I've banged my head on many things, it is still standing AFAICS.

> Another example (which caused panic to me today ...) it's the old access rule plugin safeexambrowser substituted by the new core plugin "seb"... They stay together, no clear errors are shown, but the access to the quiz protected by SEB doesn't work.

Don't tell me! As the pandemic broke we dived deep in to SEB and even SEB Server https://seb-server.readthedocs.io/. Possibly all that is shaken now. Expecting the teachers to come back any time. Possibly the classes have returned to normal and they don't use the SEB the same way.

Whatever we are going far OT. The message here is for the OP:
> I would like to say that you can't write down a list of "core" and "non-core" modules and think that you never will change these lists in the (near) future, it's a matter of moodle knowledge and each plugin has a history that you should accept to follow when you install it.
>

> No simple way: "Moodle is not Wordpress"...

In clearer terms the OP does a disservice to Moodle by disseminating an immature "Moodle installlation"!

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Re: Ri: Re: Ri: Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Shane Farmer發表於2022年 05月 9日(週一) 22:19

Sorry I haven't had time to update this thread. I have talked to both Ken (who gave me some good ideas), and Brijesh (Softaculous). Brijesh said it's likely a plugin issue, which I can't argue with (and was the same conclusion as myself), but disabling/enabling one by one is just not feasible or worth it for me right now. The other problem is that old files were present after the upgrade and caused some problems, as well. There were listed in a link up above. Totally unrelated to the plugin issue, I assume, but maybe those are plugins, themselves?

https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=423180 (edit a few files)
and
https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=371498 (delete those three files)

I used Softaculous because it was easy to use initially and I haven't had any issues with updates in the past. I have learned my lessen from it and will just build from scratch next time. Probably using GIT, as well.

I have a backup of our 3.11 site, and it's not imperative that this site is fixed, it is just preferred. I appreciate all the input. In the future, it would be nice to just have Moodle enable it's OWN plugins, and the let administrators enable each plugin AFTER upgrade installation. Or a simpler way to track down included/third-party plugins. Maybe there is, I just don't know what I'm looking for. I don't deal with lots of websites like I used to, or have the time to, so that's why I went the automated route, but I'll just take care of it manually next time.

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Re: Ri: Re: Ri: Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Ken Task發表於2022年 05月 10日(週二) 00:34

Thanks for updating, Shane!

Comment: it's getting to the point where automatted/intelligent checks of moodle with appropriate action might need to be run via artifical intelligence!

From what you've said and expressed interest in, I see 3 potential/officialy blessed moodle commercial plugins should Softac pursue development.

'SoS', Ken

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Ken Task發表於2022年 05月 5日(週四) 00:18

I believe these community forums are supposed to be a '2 way street'. And from what I have seen so far, this discussion is '1 way' - your questioned answered ... and a plea for 'how do I fix my broken software' ... for nada. Hmmmmmm ...

"Can you answer this ? How do we distinguish if the plugin was a core plugin or was a plugin installed by user manually ?"

Am not a professional programmer, but don't discount a general description ... which I gave and Sergio also explained. Having said that ... to answer the question ... core mods/blocks/themes/reports/formats/ etc. are known. Thus one developing would have a list of those that are known to come with core and those *not* in that list would be an addon - would they not?

And to show that I can do some 'programming' ... outside of Moodle ... I've a bash shell script that loops through the shortname of addon plugins installed and uses moosh to provide a link to all those plugins where I could manually download the updated zips to install - commercial addons excluded, of course! Ok, that's not something that your customers desire to do, but, hmmmmm .... if I can do it as a non-programmer, you should be able to do same in Softac.

Sergio also pointed out something for you to work on ... former plugins (addons) that become core. Think I've seen another in 4.0 he didn't mention, but I'll mention it here - collapsed topics.

I've asked a question of you with no reply to date .... am not a 'customer', but here's a repeat ... the link for support in the Softac initial screen ... where does it go? To your ticket system or to Moodle Community forums? From what I've seen, it goes to these forums. Users are confused as to where they go to get assistance/fix, aren't they?

Now to the issue of about commercial or non-commercial - answer this ...

IF ... IF ... I wanted to install Softac on my servers, where could I acquire the software, and how do I install? As I understand cPanel, that's perl based ... I have Perl on my server, so I should be able to install Softac on any panel that runs Perl - or am I just ignorant!

'SoS', Ken

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Ken Task發表於2022年 05月 6日(週五) 06:42

Have been in voice contact with Shane - we are in USA and in same TZ.

Don't think I'll be shocking anyone to report a little on that conversation ... Shane is gonna find other hosting ... maybe GCE as school does have Google Edu.

I see there has been no further responses from Softac 'lead' so guess this thread will serve only for 'historical purposes' and again a warning for potential issues if using Softac and support after.

'SoS', Ken

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Brijesh Kothari發表於2022年 05月 9日(週一) 02:02

Hi,

I am on a leave for 10 days and as soon as I get back I will make the tests as recommended above and share the status. I am very much interested in testing it and coming with a concrete solution (if it is a Softaculous issue).

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Ken Task發表於2022年 05月 9日(週一) 03:42

You don't have a #2 person who could support customers while you are on leave?

Besides that ... if ... IF ... the OP had an academic calendar which called for testing of students this week and site is still not functional, then what?

'testing' and 'concrete solution' ... that should prove to be difficult IF ... IF ... OP doesn't grant Softac staff access to OP's account so Softac can use the same exact hosting environment. Your testing should be done with multiple hosting providers who offer your app and it should be done with all levels provider(s) offers to customers .... from cheapest/less resources, to medium (whatever that means), to largest (whatever that means) they offer in a shared environment.

If one is 'playing' the 'blame game' (and I mean that with a twisted sense of humor - nothing person), think you'll find *all* are involved ... beginning with OP, then Softac for failing to make up for what the OP didn't do, and finally Moodle itself (for leaving this gap in GUI admin of a moodle). Having said that, we are talking about 4.0 ... .0 basically means 'stable' but in reality, OP's are omicron testers with a live site.

The above is, of course, my own personal opinion!

So 10 days from now + however long it takes ... and by then OP is probably gonna be like 'Elvis' ... 'left the building'!

'SoS', Ken

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Rick Jerz發表於2022年 05月 9日(週一) 21:02

Since Softaculous appears on so many hosted servers, yes, you would think there would be more than one technical support person. However, from history, perhaps one person (Brijesh Kothari,) even if they are gone for 10 days at a time, is slightly better than no person, given that problems are solved. When problems are solved, solutions can be promoted by others. But I do agree with your question, Ken, about "don't have a #2 person?"

It appears to me that "our" general recommendation holds, "Don't use Softaculous" to install or manage Moodle on a server. Or, "When you use Softaculous to install your Moodle, Softaculous inherits your "Moodle Administrator" role, and you must consult with Softaculous whenever you have problems." (Something like that.)

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Ken Task發表於2022年 05月 9日(週一) 22:08

@Rick ... since where you host has cPanel and Softac icon, wonder if you wouldn't mind checking something ... project lead said they would check on same question asked before but never got back. So ... how about community members sharing what they see?

Mind providing a screen shot of that Icon for Softac? From what I re-call the icon had a moodle icon with a number '2' layered on top.

Click the Softac icon ...

you should get an intro screen that suggest backing up the site before proceeding. And at the bottom of that screen something that says something about support with a link. Where does that link go? To these community moodle forums or to Softac Ticket system.

Thanks, in advance, Ken

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Rick Jerz發表於2022年 05月 11日(週三) 00:11

I just checked Ken, and my VPS has the "Installatron" auto-installer, which Brijesh said is not Softac's. But I will provide a screenshot.

I don't want to go too far on my production server. Since I haven't installed my Moodle using Installatron, I don't want to mess much with it. I don't see anything about "backup," but this could be because I don't have it installed this way.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Ken Task發表於2022年 05月 11日(週三) 01:07

That's another 'one click wonder' ... Instalatron.

Does that initial Instalatron screen have a link for support? Where does it go? GoDaddy Support pages, Instalatron ticket system, or moodle.org community forums?

What I saw with Softac ... support went to moodle.org community forums. The fact that provider makes this app available is telling customers it works. But the link to moodle.org community forums is dodging support. To me that mis-directs and mis-informs users that use it. User could be caught in infinite loop as no one on these forums ... cept 'Project Lead' ... could help. Am almost certain 'Project Lead' would suggest to poster to go to Softac Ticket System for assistance.

Now for 'just in time' support like test coming up the next day and site cannot be used, that whole situation sucks!

Of course, it's not wise to upgrade that close to testing or some other major in a moodle site. But, OP must have seen something/thought something would be better. Oh, yeah, the constant Moodle Nag about upgrading - Notifications - with no link to check environment nor a reminder about backing up the site - nor how to do that.

No ... didn't expect you to mess with 'your perfection'!

Granted ... none of this is 'my fight' ... but it's a button with me having worked in K12 for many years and seeing 'dog and pony shows' by sales types ... in some cases, ISD decision makers would believe the sales type and end up regretting that decision. BTW, first contact they would make in such a situation was me!

What a tangled web it is!

Thanks!

'SoS', Ken

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Rick Jerz發表於2022年 05月 11日(週三) 08:25

The Installatron "Support page" link goes to.... you guessed it, the Moodle community forums! However, there is a link to a specific Installatron Support web page. If you look at this, it is very generic.

Perhaps if a school admin wants immediate support, they need to use a Moodle Partner.

My server is not perfect, but it works. I have had only 1 problem in 1 1/2 years!

I still believe the key is to learn to install Moodle without the one-step installers. It's not that hard, and you learn a lot along the way. Sure, my first installation of Moodle was with a one-step app, but in less than a year I realized that I needed to learn how to upgrade on my own.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Brijesh Kothari發表於2022年 05月 18日(週三) 15:44

@Ken we do have a dedicated support team that has a lot of members and they handle all the support requests on OUR support portal. However we cannot assign them to check the forums of the apps we offer hence we assign it to some people (this post was assigned to me). Imagine our support team checking support forums of 350+ apps we provide would be a nightmare.

Having said that I do not mean we won't respond or check issues posted on forums of the apps we offer. If someone notifies us or if we come across such posts we do our best to help the user (as I am doing for this thread).

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Leon Stringer發表於2022年 05月 12日(週四) 04:21

How do we distinguish if the plugin was a core plugin or was a plugin installed by user manually ? – You can do that with a script like this:

<?php
define('CLI_SCRIPT', true);
require('config.php');

$pluginman = core_plugin_manager::instance();

foreach ($pluginman->get_plugins() as $type => $plugins) {
    foreach ($plugins as $shortname => $plugin) {
        if ($plugin->source == core_plugin_manager::PLUGIN_SOURCE_EXTENSION) {
            echo "{$type}_{$shortname} in {$plugin->rootdir}" . PHP_EOL;
        }
    }
}

which lists the plugin shortname and the directory where it's located:

block_configurable_reports in /var/www/moodle39/moodle/blocks/configurable_reports
atto_wordimport in /var/www/moodle39/moodle/lib/editor/atto/plugins/wordimport
theme_eguru in /var/www/moodle39/moodle/theme/eguru

I based this script on this one.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Leon Stringer發表於2022年 05月 12日(週四) 04:45

To take this script one step further I wrote a Bash script – latest – as a proof-of-concept of how one might automate the preparation of the Moodle source code for an upgrade (when not managed by Git). It does the following:

Runs a PHP script to get a list of directories containing additional (non-core) plugins.
Moves the contents of the source code directory to a temporary directory. Because it does mv * $workingdir hidden files like .htaccess are not moved which is what we want.
Downloads the latest source code. This is made difficult because I couldn't find a static "latest stable" download URL so this may have to change for every minor version release (4.0.2, 4.0.3, etc.).
Extracts the downloaded source code.
Moves config.php and, if it exists, php.ini back to the source code directory. Maybe there are more files used in hosting that should be moved back, these could be added to $filestokeep.
Moves any additional plugins back to their original location.
Deletes the temporary directory.

When the admin logs in they are prompted to upgrade (assuming the site wasn't already on the latest version).

They can then upgrade additional plugins for the new version in whichever way they originally obtained these, e.g. uploading the plugin source code or downloading them via the web interface (if the permissions allow this).

This script is intended to do the bare minimum to correctly prepare the Moodle source code directory for upgrade. Anyone wishing to implement better practice, such as a full backup beforehand, and running admin/cli/upgrade.php afterwards can do that. And anyone wanting to manage their source code using Git instead of completely replacing their source code can do that.

Since it replaces the current Moodle source code, if any files or directories have been added – i.e. outside of plugins, or a site-level php.ini – then these will be deleted. Generally it's not recommended to add files to Moodle and if you do then you should know what you're doing and not use this script.

Feedback is welcome. If you wish to try it out, please use a test environment initially, there may be bugs and it does delete the site's source code!

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Brijesh Kothari發表於2022年 05月 18日(週三) 15:50

Thank you so much @Leon for putting this together. I hope you agree that, with the help from this community it is easier to fix these issues because we are not Moodle experts but you guys are

Our scripts team has started working on this and will release the updated Moodle package with the changes to :
1. Move the existing moodle source to a temp directory
2. Unzip the latest moodle source code
3. Copy config.php and the plugins to the new source
4. Update the moodle database

I will update this thread as we make progress on the same.

I have one more query do we need to copy the theme files as well if the admin is using a custom theme ?

Also Softaculous is written in PHP so the PHP code is enough for us.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Leon Stringer發表於2022年 05月 18日(週三) 16:45

A theme is really just a plugin. Each type of plugin goes in a directory specific to that type and for themes that is the theme directory. So any themes should be handled in exactly the same way as any other plugin, i.e.:

the theme's directory will appear with all the other additional plugins that the short PHP script outputs (e.g. /home/<user>/public_html/theme/mytheme);
once the latest Moodle source code has been extracted move the theme's directory from the temp directory into the new source code directory exactly as would be done for other plugins.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Brijesh Kothari發表於2022年 05月 18日(週三) 17:35

Thanks for the clarification.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Ken Task發表於2022年 05月 12日(週四) 07:00

Wow, Leon ... that's worthy of a 'git stash'! Could I make suggestions to improve just a little?

Script goes in code/admin/cli/ to be consistent with cli scripts at that location. That would require a change to the location of the config.php file for site ../../config.php.

And, maybe, an extension ... link to the latest of those plugin zips.

Wonder if this script or your other could be wrapped in a Perl script. Hmmm ... suggest you do as seen in other scripts ... comments at the top related to author/credit!

You da man, Leon!

'SoS', Ken

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Leon Stringer發表於2022年 05月 13日(週五) 04:16

Thanks for the feedback, Ken!

Re plugins: There are a bunch of reasons why I still think it's right not to try to handle those. The reasons include: the plugin may not originate from moodle.org/plugins (Theme Forest themes, vendors like Edwiser, etc.), some authors are slow to update the plugin directory posting updates to GitHub, and some plugins are still packaged with the wrong directory name following MDLSITE-6525.

Re wrapping it in Perl: What I was trying to do is show a third party how we would expect the source code directory to be prepared for upgrade (remove all old code but keep config.php and plugins). So it may be that some people could adapt the script into Perl or whichever language is best for them.

Re keeping it in admin/cli: In my mind this script is external to Moodle which some people may find useful. The best way to manage source code remains Git (it's what it's for!). However, there are good reasons not use it, mainly if you have limited disk space, Moodle installed with Git is about 3× the size of the source-only download.

One change I should make is to check the current Moodle version is at least the minimum version supported by the target version's ability to upgrade before making any changes.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Ken Task發表於2022年 05月 13日(週五) 05:23

The only reason I mentioned Perl ... that's what cPanel and Softac uses - me thinks!

Yes, git is better ... all the way round! But you are correct ... on the low-end shared hosting considerations like space is an issue. But ... to me, not enough space for that indicates there *will be* issues concerning space anyway.

OP's on such systems need to keep an eye on space and other things outside of Moodle - in their cPanel.

'SoS', Ken

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Ken Task發表於2022年 05月 19日(週四) 05:51

@Leon ... you might be able to answer this since you maintain an official Moodle plugin.

Found Softac's site for description/how to install, etc. and see it requires IonCube ... which, if I understand that correctly, encrypts PHP scripts (cannot see the actual PHP code).

Would something like that pass muster and ever get approved by Moodle code checks if Softac created/sold a commercial plugin to moodle for updates and upgrades of core code?

'SoS', Ken

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Brijesh Kothari發表於2022年 05月 19日(週四) 13:57

We are not planning to add this to the Moodle plugins repo. We will be just adding it to our Moodle package for upgrades via Softaculous.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Leon Stringer發表於2022年 05月 19日(週四) 15:39

@Ken: I don't maintain anything posted on the Plugins directory so I don't have any insight from that perspective.

I agree that code obfuscated with ionCube would not be GPL compatible (required for any distributed Moodle plugins).

But as Brijesh says, if they're not distributing anything as part of a GPL-licensed project, then Softaculous may chose a different license for their own software.

That's my understanding, but IANAL.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Ken Task發表於2022年 05月 19日(週四) 21:25

@Leon ... thanks!

@all ... so Softac is trying to fill the admin gap left by Moodle - ability to use a GUI interface to either update or upgrade a Moodle. A .0 of all previous releases of Moodle have had bugs, and, as expected, acquiring the most recent 'point' release ... like a 4.0.1 ... fixes.

Interesting that Softac asking for 'clarifications' and has outlined what they intend to do to fix issues. Mimics the original moodle docs on updating core code. Lofty goal to try and do 3rd party plugins in one swoop.

Now *if* the original poster in this thread didn't have any technical understanding/ability, he would have been 'stuck' ... all this time.

So, unfortunately, it's still a 'buyer beware' kinda thing. And whatever Softac does, isn't using the most efficient and less prone to human/programming errors which is git.

And still, the link for support in the Softac App points to moodle.org community to resolve issues ... when there should be 3 ... 1st with provider, 2nd to Softac ticket system, and lastly, these community forums.

'SoS', Ken

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Brijesh Kothari發表於2022年 05月 25日(週三) 14:10

Hi All,

We have made the changes in our Moodle package to delete all files and folder and then restore the external plugin files. We tried with some Moodle external plugins but we were not able to replicate the Javascript issue mentioned in this thread with our old code while upgrading from Moodle 3.11.6 to 4.0

Can someone please suggest some more external plugins which we can try ?

We want to replicate the issue and test with the updated code to make sure the issue is resolved before we release the updated Moodle package.

Thank you all the community members!

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Ken Task發表於2022年 05月 25日(週三) 23:50

"... please suggest some more external plugins ..."

Commercial or those found in Moodle Plugins site?

Moodle plugins site has 1,980. Test them all!

Who knows about commercial plugins!!!

If anyone suggested a commercial theme, you'd have to purchase and try it yourself. IF someone shared that code with you to test, that's a problem ... big time ... their license for that theme doesn't allow them to share/re-distribute the theme. Your product practices protection of what you've created so would think you'd not be asking others to do opposite!

Not even moodle has a way to update/upgrade core code and also update/upgrade 3rd party (free or $) plugins in one operation. Yes, know this is a gap you are trying to fill - and for commercial purposes as well.

Why would anyone in community give you that free method/info/testing, etc. for nada?

Maybe you need to hire Leon as a consultant!!!!!

My advice .... for what that's worth ... don't try to upgrade plugins at the same time. Just get what plugin code they have into new version code. And right about now that could be a crap shoot considering 4.0.x is a major change and many plugin developers have not yet upgraded their plugin to be 100% compat.

Whatever you do, make sure the link for support goes to your Ticket System.

'SoS', Ken

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Brijesh Kothari發表於2022年 06月 6日(週一) 16:44

>> If anyone suggested a commercial theme, you'd have to purchase and try it yourself. IF someone shared that code with you to test, that's a problem ... big time ... their license for that theme doesn't allow them to share/re-distribute the theme. Your product practices protection of what you've created so would think you'd not be asking others to do opposite!

I never asked for the files. I just ask for the plugin names so we could test them.

>> Not even moodle has a way to update/upgrade core code and also update/upgrade 3rd party (free or $) plugins in one operation. Yes, know this is a gap you are trying to fill - and for commercial purposes as well.

We are not upgrading the plugins. We are just copying the plugin files from the source installation to the upgraded installation.

>> Why would anyone in community give you that free method/info/testing, etc. for nada?

I thought that's what community is. Helping each other.

>> My advice .... for what that's worth ... don't try to upgrade plugins at the same time. Just get what plugin code they have into new version code. And right about now that could be a crap shoot considering 4.0.x is a major change and many plugin developers have not yet upgraded their plugin to be 100% compat.

That's exactly what we will be doing copy the plugin files from the old version code to the new version code.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Ken Task發表於2022年 06月 6日(週一) 21:03

Leon has shared a script to find plugins. Now all you need to do is find a way to plug that into your $ module for Moodle and copy ... that's copy ... those plugins into new code, **** before **** upgrading. But, before that action takes place, you need to program a way to see if those plugins are compatible with the version of Moodle to which customer is upgrading. Hmmmmm ... got some backended AI that could sort that out?

"I thought that's what community is. Helping each other."

There's a difference - you are seeking help for a commercial product that is outside of Moodle and isn't open source.

isn't open source

Get it?

Since you are talking programming ... why don't you ask your questions in the developers forum?

When are you going to change the link for support from these forums to your ticket system in the info for your Moodle module?

As of recent, there is yet another user that upgraded site with Softac. Didn't see you over there.

No SoS, Ken

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Brijesh Kothari發表於2022年 06月 6日(週一) 21:48

>> Get it?

Got it so I will stop seeking help from Moodle forums for Softaculous. Thank you!

>> When are you going to change the link for support from these forums to your ticket system in the info for your Moodle module?

That cannot be changed. It is the same for all 350+ scripts to the forums of the respective scripts. The support link is for support related to usage of the script i.e. for features and bugs in the script and for support related to installation and upgrade comes to us directly via our support ticket system.

>> As of recent, there is yet another user that upgraded site with Softac. Didn't see you over there.

You can ask them to open a support ticket with us. I have replied the same.

BTW if you are talking about this post :

https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=434830

The user just mentioned he started facing the issue after migrating a server and mentioned possibly Softaculous and you guys just assumed it was a Softaculous bug and put the blame directly on Softaculous. That's great !

It would have been better if you would have atleast confirmed with them that they used Softaculous or not before criticizing Softaculous.

That's it from me on this post. We are doing some final tests with the changes about plugin upgrade and will release the updated package soon.

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Re: Issues after Softaculous Moodle 4.0 Upgrade from 3.11.6

由Ken Task發表於2022年 06月 6日(週一) 22:59

"It would have been better if you would have atleast confirmed with them that they used Softaculous or not before criticizing Softaculous."

Uhhh ... that usually comes out after community members ask questions. DUH!

It's no one's job here in *community forums for an open sourced* application to do your job for you. That includes pointing poor users caught in la-la-land where to go - but you will see that many do point to your ticket system.

However, your interface should include an explanation ... if update/upgrade fails, your ticket system first ... then to community forums if update/upgrade successful and issue is *thought* to be related to moodle core code - which really could be the fact that Softac didn't check something or shouldn't have even attempted upgrade if environment checks not 100% green ... as well as plugin compat ... especially themes.

And how is a user that is relying upon your expertise to know that? You don't know the answer to that and neither do I!! Sooooo?????

Can't change that link??!!!! or make it clearer from whom to get support, then kinda wonder about your ability to 'do it right' in the first place!!! (but that's my opinion!)

Don't know what you expect ... yes, we hear Softac and since it is *closed source* it's a logical assumption to make. 'Deflection tatic' does not work with honest/clear communicatons in, once again, *OPEN SOURCED* projects/applications. Suggest you stare into mirror!

Yes, do take your questions to the Developers forum.

Suggestion: better start looking at some backend AI that sorts out all the potential issues for the customer cause they are relying upon your software to do it right.

Again ... NO SoS. Ken

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