This is why we don't recommend Softaculous and the like. It's very hard to provide useful advice.
Apologies, I didn't realise you didn't recommend use of cPanel/Softaculous installations.
Having said that, it's so easy to install via that combination, and subsequently to backup and upgrade via the same. I use it because I find the backup and upgrade process as detailed on Moodle to involve complicated stuff eg dump of sql database etc that I just don't need to worry about when using cPanel/Softaculous.
If there's a similarly simple way not using cPanel/Softaculous I will definitely do that but at the moment I can't find it
I noticed that Moodle has an Install folder containing a variety of files and folders including the ReadMe that says: "The file stringnames.txt contains a list of all the strings used during the install process. A daily cron job will pick up the changes to this file and update all the language files (ie those in install/lang/*/install.php) automatically.
Martin Dougiamas, 20/8/2007"
Is leaving that in place a security issue or is it safe to remove it fiven what it says about the cron job?
Thanks again for your fast response and you help
Installation and upgrade through Softaculous is a problem here because we don't know what the script does. As you say, it's great until you have a problem or a question and then who do you turn to?
There is no recommendation in the Moodle instructions to delete the install folder (or any other folder) in the Moodle software as downloaded from moodle.org - which is the recommended way to get moodle.
Thanks once again.
I understand what you are saying and thanks for the advice re the installation folder.
I really appreciate your time and advice
Thanks and be well
Pardon intrusion ...
+20 to what Howard has been saying!
However ..... maybe the following will help you sort it out:
Intrusion welcomed :-)
I’ll check those out, particularly as my Moodle sites are all hosted by SiteGround :-)
I feel like chatting a little bit today, so I will add my two cents, and I must let you know that Howard and Ken are folks that I really respect.
I have been there, done that.
cPanel is a set of tools provided by a company that is supposed to help novices, like myself, manage a "server" when people know little about servers. Some folks, like Howard and Ken, know how to manage servers on their own and really don't need help from a cPanel kind of utility. (Sorry if I misspoke, Howard and Ken.)
I have been around cPanel for about 15 years, and I still use it to help me along.
Softaculous is a cPanel utility that is supposed to make it easy to install server-based applications, like WordPress, Moodle, and many others. On my server, this is called "Installatron." I don't know why it goes by a different name or if it might be a different (installer) company. But, the bottom line is that many times these auto-installers work, but you never know "HOW." And we don't know how either, so if anything goes wrong, it is hard to get help here on Moodle.org. What is worse is that if you ever want to update your Moodle, which might happen every month, these installers have even more difficulty. So most folks who have been around Moodle for a while simply do not recommend using these products.
Many years ago I learned how to install Moodle on my server on my own. Sure, a little bit of learning. But in the long run, I am much better off.
The Moodle docs do a pretty good job explaining how to install Moodle. The docs also describe server requirements. If, for example, I need to upgrade my php version, I do this using cPanel's php version tool. If I need to turn on Opcache, I do it with cPanel. So cPanel has been useful to me for some tasks. Ken and Howard know how to do these things using Linux commands. However, if I am going to upgrade my Moodle, I do it manually by myself.
As a big overview, installing Moodle involves only a few steps: 1) create a database, 2) create a moodledata folder one level up (or down, depending on your orientation) from your "public" www folder, 3) put the download version into public, unpack it, and 4) run www.mydomain/moodle to start the installation.
However, this can take some practice, and it helps to know how to use a few important tools, such as ssh and ftp.
That's the big picture, as best as I can provide it.
The way that I like to learn is to buy a VPS for one month, hit it hard, try some things, reset the server, try some more things, reset, and repeat this several dozen times.
Ken and Howard will provide corrections to what I have said, and will guide you further. I just wanted to provide you some encouragement to continue. Moodle is a great LMS, and I am really pleased that I have had success running it for 10 years.
So my view... you just spent 15 years learning cPanel when you could have been learning the command line - which I honestly don't think it any harder. Why is that a good thing? I can go to just about any hosting company and spin up a vanilla Ubuntu server instance. I'm not troubled by all the other stuff that worries people who buy "managed" hosting. That's a big advantage.
Just my $00.02 as they say.
When I retire, I think that I will learn Linux.
As I've said many times before... you can get a well paid job as a Linux server admin so this may not be surprising.
Mail I have handled by an external SMTP server. There are some things i won't tackle.
copy and paste commands
Much like Rick, Ken, and et al. have suggested (hi everyone, long time no see!), it's definitely worth avoiding Softaculous. When I was a newby to Moodle administration on the server, it was great until I had problems.....ultimately if you download a copy of your Moodle installation onto your own personal computer, or just a plain Moodle copy, set up a test installation on your PC using MAMP and WAMP and practice tinkering, updating, etc. in a non-destructive environment. That way you can learn how relatively easy it is to upgrade Moodle the proper way, as well as see what other things you might do to optimize or fix uknown issues that the command line utilities (admin/cli) can tell you.
Similarly, you can practice doing database dumps and imports - its surprisingly easy. I don't do them that often these days (my previous employment was managing a Moodle installation) and I just had a file with the oft needed commands to remind myself every 8 weeks what I needed to do, filled out my upgrade log, and that was that. Probably spend about 20-30 minutes preparing and then the update itself took about one minute or less on the server.
Your one requisite:
a) there were very clear instructions somewhere - I've read the upgrade instructions for Moodle and they are good but it's the prep bit I find problematic. If someone here can point me to a simple (even if I have to learn some new stuff) instructional video or written sequence I'm very happy to give it a go.
Rick has a number of videos online somewhere that walk you through the process - I used these many moons ago and Rick would also be kind enough to share the links I'm sure. If you can install Moodle, you can definitely upgrade it!
Ken, Rick, Howard, and Visvanath never steered me wrong!
It was mentioned to me that working on a local copy of Moodle doesn't help folks trying to install Moodle on a VPS. Yet, some steps actually do have parallel learning and skillsets. So, my feeling is that the more that you do, by yourself, learning Moodle the better off you are. None of this I would have know when I first started using Moodle. I am just trying to share my experiences. And I always appreciate learning new things from folks here on Moodle.org. (I love Ken, Howard, and Visvanath, but I am not anywhere close to their expertise. I view myself as one of their "students." Also, I just do my "little" moodle, serving my own courses, around 12 courses/year. These other folks know how to do "big" Moodles, which is different than my needs.)
Whenever I need a spare, clean Moodle, I quickly install a new Moodle in MAMP. Before upgrading my "production" moodle, I always upgrade my MAMP version first, just as a precaution. Doing things in MAMP is not exactly like doing things on my production server, there are always a few differences. But it's about 96% the same. I regularly move my production Moodle data to my local MAMP version. When I am trying to learn something new, I always do it in MAMP first.
The biggest challenge that I have found is configuring the "server," as in MAMP, or my VPS server. But this is probably because I lack server training. Also, I find myself doing server stuff much less frequently than Moodle stuff, so I am at a different point on the learning curve. My server has been running great for nearly 3 years, and I don't touch it much. (Yes, I have cPanel doing maintenance stuff for me, but if somewhat said: "what is it doing?" I would have to hunt around.)
On my list of videos to create is "How did Rick set up his VPS and Moodle?" In it, I would provide all disclaimers that what I do may not work for you. Before December of this year, I plan to get a new VPS and go through the learning again, so this might be my best time to make a video showing my process.
Relative to my current videos, I will provide a few links below. Last December, my school's video server was shut down, so I have been moving videos to Vimeo, which is working well. On Vimeo, I am trying to make all my Moodle videos "public." So if you find links to my videos somewhere in a Google search, they may not work because my old video server is gone. (But let me know.)
Most of my Moodle presentation items can be found at the bottom of my homepage. I still need to find some of my older videos that you referenced and post them in Vimeo if they still apply.
Here is the link describing how I install Moodle on a local PC or Mac.
MoodleMoot2019 (Global and Mountain), "How to Install a “Sandbox” Moodle on Your Windows PC/Mac"
+20 Howard's suggestion of VB ... and to add ... might do this prior to choosing which un-managed OS (Ubuntu vs CentOS)! In providers that offer a choice of un-managed ... make it 'minimal' if they offer. That means you build everything - you choose which DB for example. That sounds like it's difficult, but there are tons of blogs that will assist and if provider is worth it's salt, maybe even a doc from provider for how to build an AMP stack!
4 cents. It's a journey!
There's loads of sites that describe how to do it. Google something like, "access virtualbox guest from host". Here's a random sample...
It's not as terrifying as it sounds.
Since we're jabberwalking ... and have strayed away from original posters questions/issues .... may as well go with flow ...
Yes, can provide right out of your house ... been there done that. NoIP or similar, etc, etc., but those that do/try should be aware of this fact ... within one minute of any server getting on internet, that server has had it's first poke/probe. Game on!
One will learn a lot and in many areas not ever explored ... one area ... security/firewall, etc. which is an area normally handled well by providers, is now responsibility of the 'doer'. Your provider/ISP will take a dim view of whatever you set up becoming part of a bot network. Besides that, "typical" home connections not same as "business class". Could be ISP considers such a set up to be 'circumventing'.
But do go forth!
Yes, and hilariously, I've still not got an answer 😂 though I have learned loads of great stuff for which I thank everyone.
Now, I wonder where that folder is...😀
Well, no one has 'volunteered' so I'll do it publically ... so we can lay this to rest!
@John ... Don't know where this folder is located either but if you PM me the URL to your cPanel with your login crendtials, I'll take a look see.
BTW, @John and I have been conversing via direct EMail and he has some old git notes that I wrote up back when working on 1.9.x migrations to 2.x.
in the 'spirit of sharing', Ken
"Yes the install directory you have to delete is in the public_html folder. Just to be sure instead of deleting the install directory you can rename it to install.bak and then once you see your Moodle installation is working fine you can delete the install.bak directory."
However, I understand from Howard and James that I should not remove the install folder that Moodle itself installs on a non-softaculous install.
As I trust you folks more than Softaculous I'm going to leave it where it is - if anyone thinks that's not the right thing to do, please let me know
Had a very useful response from SiteGround. They did a complete search across the whole site and could only find one install folder, which is the one created during the 'normal' moodle installation process - so there we have it: there's only one install folder.
So we are talking about the *same* install folder 😀
Uhhh ... Errrr ... it's not DOS but a node on a bot network - to which even thought to be secured provider servers are almost equal.
But ... like I said ... 'go forth'!
Some worry about breaking their machine or opening themselves up for cyberattack.
Use another PC. I think nearly every one has an old machine gathering dust. Almost anything will run Linux. I have a CLI version on a ASUS Eee with a 4 Gb hard drive, 1 gB of ram and a puny processor. Can't break anything on your main device that way. No old computer? Try a Raspberry Pi.
Or rent a $5 a month droplet from DigitalOcean. Nothing like being able to completely wipe your system and start all over again when you are learning.
I followed the link above and I have to say that is by far and away the clearest explanation I have come across.
In fact I followed your instructions and now have a working copy of Moodle on my laptop that I can experiment with.
Thanks once again for your clarity and straightforward style.
Now if you could just put one like that together for upgrading... 😀
Hey! I got a better idea ... collaborate ....
You give your cPanel creds to Rick and let him use your instance for a video on how to upgrade on the server!
I am not sure how much this video tracks with your server installation. In general, you can see that you need to create a database in both environment, probably a little easier in MAMP/XAMPP. You need to create a moodledata folder, which is very similar but on a PC or Mac, the "rights" are automatic. And then you need to install moodle, which is very similar.
You can continue your education. Keep at it.
(Ken, I am slightly confused. In the video link that I provide, I don't use cPanel. The video is about installing a local MAMP or XAMPP, then installing Moodle from scratch. Then I do a few more typical Moodle things, but no cPanel.)
Similarly my server training/knowledge is minimal but that's what I appreciate the VPS for - they can do it for me. I have learned over time how to do a number of things (create databases, dumps, exports) but if I can't figure something out, I just ask them and problem solved. At least, that's what paying for their server management is for. This has been especially true since I knew how to use Cpanel to some degree and now have DirectAdmin after the whole licensing fee increase debacle a year or two ago. I haven't invested the time in learning DirectAdmin because I'm just maintaining a personal Moodle site for portfolio and practice purposes as am I not managing one for an organization at the moment.
I know not everyone wants to pay for a VPS or necessarily needs all that comes with one for a simple Moodle installation but it's one way to offset the lack of a particular skill set. I've always been in awe of certain expertise on the forum!
@Rick ... OP (John) did originally ask where the help was for using cPanel/Softac ... at which time the 2 became one when in reality cPanel does have some use and in some cases must be used with some hosting providers (cron job/php versions/php config) [all providers do not use cPanel nor offer icons (apps) in cPanel. A terminal icon does exist in some and does provide shell to account].
Will stand on suggestion ... 'collaborate' ... John could do the cPanel videos. Host with your collection of videos.
IF ... IF ... events of today do become the 'new normal', both of you (@Rick and @John) would be recognized as 'pioneers' in the 'new moodle collaboration'.
My 2 cents.
What Rick said 😀
For General Info
Using a new site for testing purposes, today I installed a fresh Moodle so that I could test the updating process using Softaculous.
Interestingly, no such message appears when doing the first install with Softaculous, it only appears when upgrading - go figure.
Very happy to collaborate with anyone but the idea of me, who knows next to nothing about cPanel, telling others what to do doesn't sit well with me at the moment anyway.
Am difinitely up for creating a video of details re upgrading without Softaculous though, if there's not a good one out there that somone here knows about
For everyone else who has participated in this discussion, let me know where I went wrong with any of this advice, or how to improve this video.
John a better reviewer ... am 'tainted'!
But ... since you asked ... some brief comments/suggestions ...
path to php-cli?
* This file is best run from cron on the host system (ie outside PHP).
* It is strongly recommended to add password protection via admin settings.
* eg wget -q -O /dev/null 'http: *moodle.somewhere.edu/admin/cron.php?password=SeCreT666'
Is wget better than curl? A member of core coders once declared wget to be 'depreciated'.
put video in a moodle using HVP - can annotate, pause for 'twitch speed' corrections even do Zig Ziggler's 'check ups from the neck up' right in the video.
And next project ... how to upgrade ... wait until 2.9.0 is out!
'SoS' ... tainted ... Ken
Hmmmm ... ok, ok, .... *typo* ... 3.9.0
You mean Roadmap for Moodle? and 3.9.x?
Think there is discussion/cussion about that taking place right now!
IF you, however, are really brave, one could get a 3.9.dev release ... not for production ... install ... and 'have a ball'!
Think Rick should continue his videos with a follow up for upgrading 3.8.x to 3.9.0 when released.
Me ... I've already an 'upgrade' git CLI script ready and all I have to do to run it is edit and change the version number of Moodle. Takes no less than a couple of minutes.
Now my turn to ask a question ... both of you have a Mac and MAMP installed .. right? Did either of you check out the "UpdateMoodle38.sh" shell script in the MAMP application folder/directory?
What you will see, one way to do a git side load and upgrade a Moodle in MAMP without having to download a new copy of MAMP ... just like using git on a server.
'SoS' Ken in trying to reduce 'CLAS'
See attached ...
doable only if one doesn't suffer from 'CLAS'
'command line avoidance syndrome'
YIKES - that's on my homework list now - thank you so much
Ken, I don’t mind your feedback. You are a great reviewer, and as always, I appreciate your suggestions. But I am not sure if I understand all. I have begun a few extra posts so that I am not “hijacking” this one. They are:
I believe that some of your suggestions were about the Vimeo video that I posted, and possibly speed control. This is what caused me to create #1. I think you meant “H5P” instead of “HVP”, just as I understood that you want me to show how to upgrade to 3.9, and not 2.9.
Here is another way that I can provide this video:
I have allowed people to download my video. Do you know anyone who can demonstrate exactly what you are suggesting by taking my video and creating an H5P component from it, and posting both the instruction and final result here on moodle.org? I am still new to H5P.
For #2, I have seen many ways of creating this cron line. What I show in my video works, is close to what the Moodle docs show, but there could be other better ways to do this.
Yes, “How to upgrade your Moodle” is on my list. Also, “How to prepare your VPS for Moodle” and “Some initial Moodle setup tasks,” and “How to migrate your Moodle.” Which of these seem most useful? (You can add others to this list, and maybe John or others will have some ideas, too.)
GoDaddy VPS isn't OVH VPS - you've made that point in slide and in audio.
You can tell 'em, tell 'em what you told 'em, and tell 'em again, but ...
Sometimes screen videos of live/in production servers show too much information.
Can't give you a frame reference in the video (which h5p - see corrected that) but
i see the url to your cPanel's PHPMyAdmin ... and port.
PHPMyAdmin is one of the most attacked apps on servers.
Don't need to help hackers any more than one has to.
Also see other databases ... moodle19 ... suggest moodle19 code might left on server.
Fine ... typo ... it's already been pointed out ... but ... corrected here.
h*5*p - note *'s are for emphasis!
With the video in h*5*p one could pause the video and provide an opportunity
for viewer to execute same on their server.
About ref to cron ... ask @Andrew Nichols ... about 'depreciated'.
Yes, wget is still in moodle wiki/docs and in comments of code files.
Maybe they need to have additional suggestions? curl? Best yet ... cli method of running cron - for obvious reason ... but I'll mention it ... takes web service out of the loop .. just php and DB service involved then.
Again, not all hosting providers are same ... and yes, you've told them ...
but an important thing like cron for moodle, deserves a pause in the video
with a text emphasis - in great big RED letters how important it is ...
again back to tell 'em, tell 'em again, tell 'em what you told then and
reference to Zig Ziggler's 'check up from the neck ups'.
and again back to use of h*5*p.
As far as demo of h*5*p ... you don't need to be 'fed fish' ... you already
know 'how to fish'. Go forth!
Still on cron ... Howard asked a question to which you did not respond.
Ok, have 'work to do' ....
Again, Ken, thanks. I am eager to go fishing!
I actually have my old Moodle 1.9 and 2.7 databases on my server. I am running Tableau for visual analytics, and even though I can't run 1.9 or 2.7 on my server, and don't, the database data is still valuable and accessible to Tableau. So in Tableau, I can grab data back to the very first course where I used Moodle, which was Summer of 2008!
I will work on fixing the potential security issues. I think that you have recommended not to show the URL.
Follow up on h5p ... this just announced ...
H5P ... OER HUB coming
'facilitating global collaboration'
Would think online learning has to evolve and yes, means more work for author/teacher. The true value of time spent doing X is in learners performance/retention of new information.
Things like linear vids and powerpoints ... whatever ... might have their place still but don't forget there's a new generation of learners - now in and in future, who might not 'learn' like their parents did, etc.
2 cent thought.
I fact, would you be OK with me asking my daughter ( a major client of mine! ) to create a moodle by following your instructions? That way I can give you feedback from somone who has never done it before but who uses moodle.
One improvement I could suggest is an indication of time passing when you upload or when an event takes some time.
Also worth mentioning that if you can't upload the zip file the user needs to unzip it and then upload it - this can can up to an hour on a slow connection I guess?
Something I also noticed but it may not be noticed by new installers, is that when you unzip the uploaded file, you then seem to carry on with the installation using a moodle that's only 4kb - is that real? If our hypothetical new user sees their file is way more than that they might be freaked!
Thanks again for taking the time to do this - much appreciated.
John, it is fine for anyone to use my videos, even your daughter. Feedback always welcomed. I would love to see your daughter become a better Moodle administrator than her father. 😍
Relative to your suggestion of showing “passage of time,” I don’t understand. I have fast connections. Everything always happens this quickly forme. You must have a slow Internet, server, computer, or fingers. Can’t you complete this install in 8 minutes? 😁 (See my Time Warped-Ed web page.)
Relative to unzipping and uploading the unzipped files: I didn’t do this in my video for a reason. You discovered the reason! Good work! Now do it the way that I show. Your daughter will probably get this step correct. 😉
Relative to the 4kb file size: I think that the 4kb that you see is the size of a “folder,” as Linux shows it, and not all of its internal contents.
The real question is "Did you have success manually installing a Moode on your VPS using cPanel?"
"I would love to see your daughter become a better Moodle administrator than her father. 😍" - me too, I always want my children to be better than me at what we do, that way I know I've done the best job I can 😀
I used your video this morning rather than just watching it through and I completed a full installation quickly - no time lag at all.
In the past I've used FileZilla to upload to the installation folder and because I can't unzip using fileZilla (unless you know different of course ) the upload has taken quite some time. I was well pleased with the speed difference
Also checked the folder size and I see what you mean about that too
So in answer to your questions, yes, under 8 mins and yes I had great success manually installing a Moodle on my VPS using cPanel 😀
Thanks once again
PS re the TimeWarp videos, there seems to be a problem.
I clicked on the "Who is Dr.Jerz", got to Vimeo, started the video and only got as far as you saying "Hello" and no further, all I got was the loading circle. Same thing happened with the other one too so I downloaded it instead of playing it on Vimeo.
Next video project ... upgrade 3.8.x to 3.9.0 when released.
Using nothing but cPanel
Plus site backup (code/db dump/minimal moodedata/filedir) + plugins and themes
Wow! 8 minutes. So criteria has a new requirement ... 8 minute downtime on upgrade.
I kind of like this "cPanel only" approach since we often have folks here on moodle.org who only have this tool. But I still want to produce versions that use FTP and SSH. When I acquire your skill level, perhaps I will make an "only using GIT" version! 🤯
Actually, I was disappointed with the 8-minute video. My target is typically 6:40 minutes (Pecha Kucha) or 7 minutes, a common MoodleMoot pico presentation length. My two "Moodle Sandbox videos are both slightly shorter than 7 minutes. Incidentally, it is the power of digital video editing that allows one to move this quickly. Almost every screen video that you see in this VPS video is moving at least double-speed from realtime.
Incidentally, here is the current video, slightly updated to remove some of the security items that I think you mentioned (if I got them right.) It also has playback speed adjustment, and even "chapters." The only thing that this version of the player doesn't offer is a "download" button, which is why I provide the download link below it.
Nothing special .. op has 3.8.x ... next version upwards is 3.9.0.
In keeping with the original request and criteria ... everything .... everything ... uhhh ... one more time everything ... done in cPanel.
Time ... from the time op decides to upgrade ... should include site backups, acquisition of updates to plugins installed - including themes ... through acquiring new 3.9.0 code + config.php back in, all plugins back in ... etc.
Again ... everything done in cPanel.
As I think about this, I might want to keep some parallelism between this VPS install, and my Sandbox installs. For example, in my Sandbox videos, I do show adding a plug-in, and customizing a theme. I didn't do these things in this video for John, but I probably should. Do you agree?
There already is some parallelism between this current VPS video and my "Sandbox" videos. It might be nice to keep all somewhat in sync.
Have never played the role of 'Director' ... on the 'set' or otherwise.
When it comes to screen videos one plays all roles.
Remember, the request was cPanel ... so nothing but!
I updated my video to include some of your suggestions. I also added a few tasks at the end so that when I make my "update video" we will have something to see in Moodle, instead of an empty shell.
I think that you are beginning to see that your skills have surpassed Softaculous. Practice installing, and removing a few more Moodles and you will really get quick. Also, keep notes about what you do, every step, so that you can repeat things when needed.
The video problem could be a browser "cache" issue. I did a little tweaking to see if I could fix the problem, and things seem to work. Oh well.
Should I remove the install folder?
Yes. You can if that is recommended by Softacolous.
There are several ways to install Moodle. Softacolous is easy but may cause problems later.
Alternatives are MoodleCloud which offers a free and paid service or a manual install on a server. Installing your own Moodle requires a significant amount of knowledge and time or the assistance of someone who knows what they are doing.
Up to 50 students use the Moodlecloud free account. With more students you need to weigh up the costs against your own time.
Whatever you do, be sure to have your course backed up and transferred to another computer every night. Doubly important if you continue with Softacolous.
The only install folder I can find is that created as part of the standard manual installation - in my previous reply to Howards first response I said:
'I noticed that Moodle has an Install folder containing a variety of files and folders including the ReadMe that says: "The file stringnames.txt contains a list of all the strings used during the install process. A daily cron job will pick up the changes to this file and update all the language files (ie those in install/lang/*/install.php) automatically.
Martin Dougiamas, 20/8/2007"
Is leaving that in place a security issue or is it safe to remove it fiven what it says about the cron job?'
I'd be interested in your thought to
The upgrade process has the potential to break things. My understanding is back up all files, maintenance mode on your site, change your Moodle code folder name to Moodle_old and then install the new code in the Moodie folder, add plug ins and copy over the config.php file. If it doesn't work, go back to the original folder.
I am sure there is an easier way - until something goes wrong. Backups are a lot less complicated than trying to fix a dead site.
Thanks very much for your clarification re the Moodle install folder.I thought that might be the case but really appreciate hearing it from somone who knows what they are doing
Re the upgrade process you outlined, that's what I used to do but switched over to using Softaculous because it is so easy.
However, given the responses I've had, there's obviously some jeopardy involved so I'm going to inveastigate, and hopefully find, the best, most efficient way to upgrade. Though I do wish there was a WordPress-style auto-updater
2 cents ... IF ... IF .. cPanel had the ability to run 'custom scripts' one could acquire an 'up' (to update the moodle code in series ... like 3.8.0 to 3.8.highest) or even 'upgrade' (like 3.8.highest to 3.9.x when it's released using git.
And ... those 'custom scripts' could also perform a backup of code and a DB dump just prior to up/upgrade.
But ... no such thing in cPanel.
That's where Softac tries to fill the hole ... unfortunately, the makers have their own take on how to update/upgrade. One user in these forums had issues with an upgrade until he discovered Softac, had moodledata in the code directory using hidden trick ... example: .moodledatawpshsls ... see the 'dot' in front of that example name? So when user did the directions from Moodle.org, which works for most folks, user found the .moodledataawpshsls moved it back into moodle code directory and site was able to upgrade.
Also, maybe site providers should offer more than cPanel or, supposedly the most popular of cPanels, Plesk ... and include an open sourced one called 'Webmin' ... which does have the ability to run 'custom commands' (scripts).
So what you seek is possible but ...
original moodle code would have to have been installed via git.
BTW, you might see a Git icon in your cPanel ... not the same thing ... that's for running your own repo of code ... uhhhh, I wouldn't care to do that ... am not a coder and don't plan to modify core code. Besides, Moodle already maintains a code repo and that's what one needs to use.
Now there is something to suggest to provider or to makers of commercial cPanel ... a git that you 'program' ... minimal - remote repo/versions + what directory on local server to use. Hmmmmm ... that addon would be worth the extra fee for it for users like yourself.
Soooooo ... who's to 'blame'?
Another great and comprehensive response thanks. Am now investigating the best method to suit me and eventually my client
It sounds like git could be less complicated in the end because I could set it up and she could continue to use that without too much extra learning on her part. What do you think about that as a way forward?
Ps no blame, just learning 😁
Keys to responding .. 'suit me' ... 'eventually client'. If 'client' has CLI phobia then you'd continue to do the CLI stuff ... but one doesn't update nor upgrade all that often either ... so 'client' might never ever have to do CLI.
So going forward still kinda depends!
I have used the GitHub Desktop to test out installing moodle.
It's great - I can get it to put a copy on my computer. But now I'm stuck - do I have to upload it using ftp client?
I suspect not but I have no idea how to get it onto my server - please bear with me
Do I need to say that with the command line it would be dead easy
Sent you a PM in Moodle here with a URL. Please check PM and the info in URL
It's about 'sideloading' (something Howard first shared many moons ago) a version 1.9.x. of Moodle code. You would have to adjust paths/locations and users (ownerships/permissions) according to your server setup.
Since your server has a Git icon in cPanel, would assume 2 things:
1. which git from CLI will locate the CLI git - shows path to git ... which means, if that path in your CLI environment you can use the second ...
2. you can use git:// protocol - if not, there is an alt method using https://
Do you have a Mac or Windows PC?
Should be able to install git locally on either and then tinker with CLI git on local platform before using on server. I have a MDLGITTEST folder on my desktop of this Mac and using terminal I tinker with using git.
Nothing guruish at first ... and I wouldn't worry about plugins/themes ... just core code.
Twenty six posts on removing a "folder" (directory)? That is a handfull!
Yeah ... postings that 'jabberwalk' usually end up with a greater number.
Seems to be the nature of 'jabberwalking'.
But ... progress? Hopefully!
Also thanks for your advice about best way to start 'tinkering' with moodle and git - I will certainly be doing that in the next weeks.
Am using a Mac.
Site access not really an error .. indicates firewall rule is working like it should. So please send (PM) your IP address as it would show to a server and I'll adjust FW so you can view.
Deleted it depends upon your tool, cPanel, FTP, or SSH.
Hi all - well who'd have thought...
I have manually installed Moodle on other sites before with no problems - it's a relatively easy process as you all know.
However, I'm talking here about Upgrading.
I moved to using Softaculous so I could simplify the upgrading process - and I've had no problems on the 3 sites I've done that with. The only reason I made the move is that I find the upgrading process to be overly (but necessarily?) complicated. In particular the need to back up everything first (I know this is standard practice for any upgrade anywhere eg WordPress) and then download and upload via ftp, then running the upgrade installer.
I'd be more than happy not to use Softaculous if:
a) there were very clear instructions somewhere - I've read the upgrade instructions for Moodle and they are good but it's the prep bit I find problematic. If someone here can point me to a simple (even if I have to learn some new stuff) instructional video or written sequence I'm very happy to give it a go.
b) there was a WordPress-like upgrade process for Moodle - I can't be the only one who would love this, can I?
At some point I may have to hand over site admin tasks to others who are even less IT literate than I am, and it would be great if they had a straightforward process to follow without having to learn command line stuff.
Looking forward to reading your thoughts and advice
If you are running completely "vanilla" Moodle then upgrading Moodle is very easy. Just replace the code with the newer version. If you have multiple plugins and you are running a "production" Moodle site then you should really be testing out your upgrade on a second, test site. You're effectively creating a custom version of Moodle with your plugins. Yes, there is a level of IT literacy and server administration required to do that - but what do you expect?
Not doing a full backup before doing an upgrade is insanity
To be clear, I was not comparing Moodle with Wordpress. I know they are very different. What I was suggesting was a Wordpress-like update process after a full backup of course.
For info, the Softaculous upgrade process does what I want:
1. Offers to perform a full backup before upgrading
2. Performs the upgrade
However, I am taking heed of your (and others') warnings re Softaculous and will not be using it in the future.
In the past, I did not use Softaculous and went through the process you outline, including testing the upgrade on a test site first ( I also did that when upgrading via Softaculous). I'll be going back to that process now of course
I agree about the insanity of not doing a full backup before an upgrade on any site, not just a Moodle.
I also 'expect' to need a level of IT Literacy, which I have otherwise I wouldn't be here asking these questions.
Re the nature of the sites I'm maintaining, I limit plugins to the bare minimum (a good idea I think) mainly just a Certificate, although I do use a range of Themes based on Boost and including just Boost itself.
Am now going away to explore possibilities so wont be bothering folks any more over this.
Apologies to all for the 'drift'.
Thanks again for your help - much appreciated.
However, we do know what when something goes badly wrong they can end up in these forums and there's often not much we can do to help.
I too believe that there are no-problem Softaculouses. If each needed 34 posts just to remove the install folder, imagine the number of posts we have had here!
@moderator ... please move Barry's posting to a new thread so his question it's not buried/hidden in another thread. It deserves a thread of it's own - IMHO. (not advocacy).
@Barry ... Question ... where do you host?
Brief explanation as to why that question is significant ...
Hosting Providers: Site Ground is not Go Daddy is not Rackspace is not Digital Ocean is not OVH.
Panels provided by Providers: cPanel is not Plesk is not DirectAdmin is not Webmin
Accounts: share hosting (and any/all offered with that tag) isn't VPS (and any/all offered with that tag).
Where you host could have very good docs/tutorials, etc. ... but it would be specific to their hosting and maybe not specific to Moodle. IF one finds a doc/tutorial, many times it was for a version 2.x ... we're not in Kansas any more!
Back the call to move to a new area. And seriously, is there a Moodle course to cover this?
- How to prepare a VPS for Moodle.
- Installing a Moodle on a VPS.
- Common Moodle settings to consider.
- Tweaking VPS, database, and Moodle settings for performance.
- How to upgrade Moodle.
- How to migrate your Moodle.
The challenge is that there are thousands of ways to do these things. (e.g., How do you build a car?)
What would you be willing to pay for such a course?
Certainly thousands of ways. Including putting Moodle on an Android tablet......
But I have one way that always works for me. A CLI install on a barebones Debian based server. A server like that can be obtained from many providers or installed on a home server.
The Ubuntu step by step guide is an example of what I think is needed. Look at this:
sudo apt install apache2 mysql-client mysql-server php libapache2-mod-php
Maybe Monday this portion of thread moved to one of it's own. ;)
Bottom line ... tutorials/directions for a DIY Moodle doesn't 'fit' the Moodle Model/*official answer* ... cause that is 'host with Moodle Partner'.
A DIY (do it yourself is really wide open) ... attempts to document highly dependent upon hosting provider ... one could almost make that their 'life's work' considering the number of providers 'out there'.
Pay for a course? Not a dime if I've 'bought into' the concept of DIY! Besides ... once created they all would have to be revisited and updated to keep up with the changes - provider changes as well as moodle changes.
So let me muddy the waters some more to illustrate ... now if one doesn't read a little of each to get a sense, please don't comment on them (many times there are hidden 'golden nuggets' or 'fools gold').
Here goes ...
Might be worth a read before you begin:
Providers ... have to begin with the horse ... not the cart!
A one click wonder?
That's just installing ... looks great, but nothing stays at version X. Key to these 'one click wonders' is really in updating or upgrading but user won't know how well those perform in advance.
Here's an old one:
A 2.2 Moodle
Next one is confusing
Site offers a way for user to compare ... this link found via Google cause someone saved it. Note: RS Managed Cloud could host a moodle ... but it is NOT a Moodle.
Adobe - Articulate community!!?? ... discussion on Moodle!!!
Best Moodle Hosting?
In the 'spirit of confusion',
https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=399295 is indeed a long thread when you think it is about removing a "folder". 90+ posts and still growing. Therefore I gave this sub-thread a new subject line in the hope of seeing it split.
About your link to a blog post Craig Weiss Group by Craig Weiss https://elearninfo247.com/2014/08/15/moodle/, were you sarcastic. I found weird stuff there. Not inclined to go in to details, the "About" note raised eye brows: " Craig has been identified as one of the most influential people in the world for e-learning and the most influential person in the world for learning systems." writes Craig Weiss. ;)
Returning to the (new) subject, your point in the previous post is that, there are so many different systems running Moodle, what system is meant by the (new) OP, right? Since the course has to be free I wonder the whether Moodle Admin Basics by https://learn.moodle.org helps. Otherwise the this Moodle Parnter https://www.hrdnz.com has a tradition of (paid) on-line courses.
Change to subject line ... hey, that's a nice trick ... let's see if Google/other search engine picks it up.
About 'Craig Weiss Group' ... wasn't trying to be sarcastic ... but look at the date ... 2014 ... still thought some pro's/con's were valid and as I said ... some info 'golden nuggets' ... some 'fools gold' - especially from those that 'toot their own horn'!
See Barry has re-joined ... Softcareservers shared. Sounds like he is 'stuck' ... for now ... actually, just not enough 'motivation' yet.
Thanks for links ... see on hrdnz ... something in the 'fine print' that might be worthy of note ... maybe of interest to Barry ...
"If you have your own Moodle server we can provide remote management of your Moodle site, or act as a co-administrator for you.
So Moodle HQ has reached the goal of a MP on every continent ... closer to every nation now ... and some MP's are finding other 'nitches' like above.
Next 'frontiers' are officialy blessed/certified 'Moodle Champions (Advisors)' ... to compete with 'Groups' ... and officialy blessed/certified 'Moodle Independent Server Techs' ...
And so the 'spin' continues to 'morph'! ... and at a time when more and more research is putting online learning under microscopes.
Okay thank you, I will take a look at some of these links you provided.
Guest access allowed
NO USER Backup of course in course.
The most important command to learn is man.
Looks like the makers of MAMP are catching onto using git.
Those on a Mac, open terminal in /Applications/MAMP/ and ls.
You'll see a UpdateMoodle38.sh file.
and you'll see one way to do a side load of git enabling update to Moodle without having to do another MAMP install to upgrade.
Maybe Softac folks have 'borrowed', considering the suggestion to 'remove the install folder'.