Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Elizabeth Harden -
Number of replies: 23

Last week I installed 3.7.2 on a SiteGround account.

In Server Checks, I'm getting two error messages (attached screenshot).

The first, relating to InnoDB and Barracuda - I can't do anything about. SiteGround doesn't offer this option. My research tells me this is not a deal-breaker.

The second error message, however, has me frustrated. I looked at my config.php file and it created utf8 collated tables. Why would the config file in the latest release specify a spec that is outdated?

I don't have much in my database -- mostly just test data. Nothing's live. But all of my settings are configured and plugins added, etc. I have no desire to delete everything and start all over again from scratch.

Other than being really frustrated and confused about why the config file didn't just call for utf8mb4 collation to begin with, I'm also having a difficult time finding good info about how to fix the situation. I've read that I can leave it as is but the expectation of being able to use emoji and other characters is not going away. I don't want to start out out-dated.

I'm finding conflicting information as to whether or not I can ALTER the collation of all existing tables & data with a single command. I'm also finding conflicting opinions about whether or not it should be done (if it is possible). SiteGround says this is outside their customer service purview. Can I do the whole database at once?  Should I do it table by table (ugh!)? And, either way, what's the proper command?

I've tried the following commands, all with no success (yes, I changed <my database> to my database name):

ALTER DATABASE <my database> CHARACTER SET utf8_general_ci COLLATE utf8mb4_unicode_ci;

ALTER DATABASE <my database> DEFAULT CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8mb4_unicode_ci;

ALTER DATABASE <my database> CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8mb4_unicode_ci;




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In reply to Elizabeth Harden

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

Qualfications for this response ... I don't host with SiteGround.  I do have dedicated servers where I can login as root user and I do have superuser credentials for the DB server.

Is your lease with SiteGround a dedicated VPS ... where you are superuser, you can ssh into server as root user and can do any/all things in your server?

The following for VPS's .... NOT SHARED HOSTING! ;)

When you installed Moodle, did you use SiteGrounds 'Softaculous' installer?

Those Alter commands only work IF ... IF you are using the superuser of the DB server.  Typcially, providers might hide from customers the superuser.  In phpMyAdmin or whatever tool you have to work with the databases on SiteGround (assuming MySQL here) do you see a 'mysql' database?  If not, you are not super user.

From a mysql command line client on the server, what do you see with:

mysql> show grants;
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Grants for root@localhost                                           |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| GRANT ALL PRIVILEGES ON *.* TO 'root'@'localhost' WITH GRANT OPTION |

OR

mysql> SHOW GRANTS FOR 'root'@'localhost';

Use your username in place of root above.

When one sets up a DB for a moodle via cPanel one can give DB and permissions (privileges) for a DB user on the DB created but those might not include all that is needed to use an Alter command.

A utf8mb4 character set must use a uft8mb4_x_x collation.

A uf8 character set must use a utf8_x_x collation.

So a valid alter for utf8mb4 character set would be:

ALTER DATABASE <my database> CHARACTER SET utf8mb4 COLLATE utf8mb4_unicode_ci;

OR if using utf8 as character set:

ALTER DATABASE <my database> CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_unicode_ci;


In config.php of the site there is a line for $dbcollation ... what does it say?
That file cannot be seen in moodle admin UX.  Must use cPanel's File Browser. Am guessing it says utf8mb4_unicode_ci;

The 'other disclaimer' for this response ... don't work for Moodle HQ, do not program moodle code, am not a developer of moodle code.   Just a user. ;)

'SoS', Ken

In reply to Ken Task

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Elizabeth Harden -
Ken, thanks for responding.

My SG account is shared, not dedicated.

I did not use Softaculous. I never do. I uploaded the .tar package, extracted, and installed it in cPanel.

I do not have SuperUser permissions or root access. When I login to my cPanel and through to phpMyAdmin, I do not see a mysql database.

I've attached screenshots of my config.php file. Also attached is a screenshot of one of my tables showing the current collation setting.

At the very beginning of this process, after seeing the error message for the first time soon after installation, I changed the collation to the recommended "utf8mb4_unicode_ci" but later learned that only effects new tables, not existing ones and existing data. That's why I eventually went back and checked my config file and discovered that little issue.

So, any solutions? The SG customer service guys said that they "could" run the command for me IF I could confirm exactly the command they should run. Or what commands can I run from my non-superuser phpMyAdmin to fix this? Do I need to do it table by table? (I've read that solution elsewhere).

Attachment screenshot_813.png
Attachment screenshot_814.png
In reply to Elizabeth Harden

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Elizabeth Harden -
Would it be okay to use this "operation" in each table? Might take a little time but if it would get the job done....
Attachment screenshot_815.png
In reply to Elizabeth Harden

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

Thanks for very accurate response!  

What you are seeing is a check ... but not a show stopper.

The bottom line questions:

1. do you **need** emojes?  Of what true educational value do they have in instruction/teaching and learning?   My take ... don't need.

2. are you going to offer a course in an Asian language.   If not, don't need to attempt config to get enironment check all green with no yellow check warnings.

Now a word of caution ... dunno about 3.8 of Moodle nor what the road map says/shows for beyond.   For now, am gonna guess Moodle HQ won't be that 'mean' and *require* ... if they do ... predict mass exodus!

As long as on a soapbox roll ...

Must say ... this sucks ...

"The SG customer service guys said that they "could" run the command for me IF I could confirm exactly the command they should run."

Indicates that SG Shared hosting not a good fit for Moodle 3.7 and beyond.

But, SG is not alone ... was just helping a gentleman in Austrialia this weekend and he host on TMD ... well known hosting and generally good ... for WordPress's, Joomla's other ... just not for Moodle.   Moodle is a 'different beast' and doesn't appear to becoming less so.

end soapbox ...

Anyhoo ... for those tech folks ... and they are gonna love this - *** IMPRESS UPON THEM TO DO A BACKUP OF THE DB BEFORE USING! ***

acquired from:

https://serverfault.com/questions/65043/alter-charset-and-collation-in-all-columns-in-all-tables-in-mysql

select CONCAT('alter table ',TABLE_SCHEMA,'.',TABLE_NAME,' charset=utf8;') from information_schema.TABLES WHERE TABLE_SCHEMA != 'information_schema' limit 10; select CONCAT('alter table ',TABLE_SCHEMA,'.',TABLE_NAME,' alter column ',COLUMN_NAME,' charset=utf8;') from information_schema.COLUMNS WHERE TABLE_SCHEMA != 'information_schema' limit 10;

and in above discussion ... this comment on above query:

If you feel good with the outcome of that, remove the limit clauses and save the output to an SQL script

mysql -B -N --host=prod-db1 --user=admin --password=secret -e "select CONCAT('alter table ',TABLE_SCHEMA,'.',TABLE_NAME,' charset=utf8;') from information_schema.TABLES WHERE TABLE_SCHEMA != 'information_schema'; select CONCAT('alter table ',TABLE_SCHEMA,'.',TABLE_NAME,' alter column ',COLUMN_NAME,' charset=utf8;') from information_schema.COLUMNS WHERE TABLE_SCHEMA != 'information_schema';" | mysql --host=prod-db1 --user=admin --password=secret

Depending upon the number of tables  .. depending upon what you might have installed/used, the above command will generate a listing of alter commands ... **** ONE PER TABLE ***

Here's a clip ... (you can't use cause it was for another server!  Do NOT try!) of what that looked like ... remember ... ONE table at a time.


ALTER TABLE demo_mdldb_test.mdldb_assessor_questions CONVERT TO CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_unicode_ci;
ALTER TABLE demo_mdldb_test.mdldb_assessor_values CONVERT TO CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_unicode_ci;  
ALTER TABLE demo_mdldb_test.mdldb_assign CONVERT TO CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_unicode_ci;           
ALTER TABLE demo_mdldb_test.mdldb_assign_grades CONVERT TO CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_unicode_ci;
ALTER TABLE demo_mdldb_test.mdldb_assign_plugin_config CONVERT TO CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_unicode_ci;
ALTER TABLE demo_mdldb_test.mdldb_assign_submission CONVERT TO CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_unicode_ci;
ALTER TABLE demo_mdldb_test.mdldb_assign_user_flags CONVERT TO CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_unicode_ci;
ALTER TABLE demo_mdldb_test.mdldb_assign_user_mapping CONVERT TO CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_unicode_ci;
ALTER TABLE demo_mdldb_test.mdldb_assignfeedback_comments CONVERT TO CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_unicode_ci;
ALTER TABLE demo_mdldb_test.mdldb_assignfeedback_file CONVERT TO CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_unicode_ci;
ALTER TABLE demo_mdldb_test.mdldb_assignment CONVERT TO CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_unicode_ci;
ALTER TABLE demo_mdldb_test.mdldb_assignment_submissions CONVERT TO CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_unicode_ci;
ALTER TABLE demo_mdldb_test.mdldb_assignment_upgrade CONVERT TO CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_unicode_ci;
ALTER TABLE demo_mdldb_test.mdldb_assignsubmission_file CONVERT TO CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_unicode_ci;
ALTER TABLE demo_mdldb_test.mdldb_assignsubmission_onlinetext CONVERT TO CHARACTER SET utf8 COLLATE utf8_unicode_ci;

I sat for about an hour and copied and pasted about 20 of those at a time into mysql> client prompt.

424 lines/commands like above ... pain in the ARSE!

Oh what fun that was!!!!   BUT ... IT WORKED.

If you notice it's not the recommended utf8mb4 with utf8mb4_collations of any kind ... but utf8 and utf8_unicode_ci

Again ... the site I was working on doesn't care about emoj's nor do they plan to teach asian languages.  So they will have to 'tolerate' ... ie, 'ignore', the checks.  HELL, I can do that!  We are more and more living in an imperfect world!

BUT ... again ... caution  ... if Moodle HQ changes their minds ... if they do ... you might need to seek Dedicated VPS hosting and might have to hire a true DB admin to fix ... OR ... host with a Moodle Partner.   (Hmmmm ... I wonder!)  OR migrate what you can to Canvas/other LMS 'poison/evilness'.  Oh, my!  Maybe even Google Classroom!!!!

Do use the environment check before you do ANY upgrade to Moodle.  Hopefully, that will stop a train wreck! :|

As anyone can see, this response not characteristic of the Moodle Borg ... and ponders things no one can know/tell nor project into the future.

'spirit of sharing', Ken

In reply to Ken Task

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers
Ken, I'll add a few more thoughts to your already great set of replies.

I do seem to recall Howard also saying something about utf8mb4_unicode_ci being a "soft" requirement, for emoji's, etc., just as you mentioned. (If one plans to use discussions, meaning forums, having emoji support seem very important to allow students to "express" themselves. Sure, if you know the text-form of an emoji, such as colon-right-parenthesis, you may not need emoji support. But many younger learners have grown up with emoji's in their lives. Just look at where the iPhone is with emoji support, to get a sense of how important this is. But sure, one can live without it. As a side note, Canvas doesn't have emoji support in its editor, and many schools don't complain.)

But that "check" on anelop/barracuda still has me puzzled. It seems to me that if one is running MySQL, then Barracuda might be "required" and not simply a check. Here are the Moodle docs for MySQL. The docs seem to suggest that Barracuda is required for My SQL. If so, then I think Elizabeth is "out of luck" with SG. If not, maybe the Moodle docs need to suggest a workaround. I would have to defer to you, Howard, Usman, and others for their expertise because this is where my knowledge is shallow. I am only raising this issue to encourage further discussion.

I think that Usman, in his exploration, found that some hosted server companies, maybe TMD, now provide the latest version of MariaDB. In this latest version, the Barracuda requirement is already "built in," meaning that this Barracuda check passes.

I have an experimental GoDaddy hosted server, and I believe that I can only get to the point that Elizabeth gets to. I will try to find time to return to it, and further experimentation. I'm a bit busy teaching right now, so I can't promise anything. For example, I would like to see what I can do about the utf8 stuff, using only cPanel.

I no longer have TMD or Bluehost hosted servers.

I do recall that point in time where I had to convert from antelop to Barracuda, and from utf8 to utf8mb4_unicode_ci. But this was maybe two or more years ago. I think at that point in time, I had already switched to a VPS, so the Barracuda switch was possible. But I think that if your hosted server is using MySQL without Barracuda, you are simply out of luck.

As you know, I have been using a VPS for many years, and this seems to be a much better solution, at least in my experience.

We seem to be getting a lot of these same questions on Moodle.org. I wonder if the Moodle docs could be improved to address these questions. Maybe a section about "hosted servers running MySQL."
In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

Moodle HQ maintaining a listing of which hosting providers are
best for Moodle ... don't think so ... reason: revenue stream.

Gentleman from Austrialia I mentioned hosted on TMD with WHM ...
appears only choices were MariaDB ... no higher than 10.3 or 4!!!!??? ... no MySQL. 

The tools/icons in WHM/cPanel show MySQL or MySQL/MariaDB.
Confusing for a non-db admin person.

https://mariadb.com/kb/en/library/innodb-file-format/

Interesting fact ... if one reads the Moodle FAQ on mariadb,
read it carefully.  It says if using mariadb, then that *can* be
used for $DB->type, *** but *** so can 'mysqli'.
Matter of fact, gentleman from Austrialia had a 3.7 using MariaDB and
DB type set to 'mysqli'.

Who is emulating who?   It's MariaDB emulating MySQL ... matter of fact
there is a variable not seen in Moodle docs for that setting which controls emulation.

https://mariadb.com/kb/en/library/how-to-change-innodb-fileformat-to-barracuda/

The real bottom line however, can the customer use superuser creds to convert DB,Tables, columns in those tables on shared hosting.   Answer ... no. 


Emoj's ... where is the hard/cold research with crunched numbers that shows beyond any shadow of doubt, their use improves learning ... across any/all Aadaemia.

2 cents.

'SoS', Ken

Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Ken Task

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
> maintaining a listing of which hosting providers are best for Moodle ...

How about a non-list? My contribution will be: godaddy.com | Go Daddy! (Where to?)
big grin
In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

Hey, Visvanath, what are you doing adding that little emoji!  smile

In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Elizabeth Harden -
Yeah, I wouldn't touch Go Daddy for anything - domain names. hosting... Anything!
In reply to Ken Task

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers
Ken, your post is helpful. In your links, I found:

In MariaDB 10.2.2 and later, the default file format is Barracuda and Antelope is deprecated.

So, it might be that if a hosting provider is using MariaDB 10.2.2 or later, then they should be running Barracuda because Antelope is deprecated. Maybe this is the case with TMD and others. In the case of my experimental GoDaddy hosted server, it is running MySQL 5.6.44, so this seems to be why I would have to confront the Barracuda issue. However, it does appear that I can pick mtf8mb4_unicode_ci through the cPanel interface. (I still have some work to do to absolutely prove this.) So even if I could pick (or fix) the collation, I would have no control over switching to Barracuda, as far as I know. (Nope, I not suggesting that I would want to run Moodle on my experimental GoDaddy hosted server. I am just trying to add a little to our discussion.)

No, I was not suggesting that Moodle.org maintain a list of hosting providers. There are just too many hosting providers out there.

Since I was exploring this, I tried to install Moodle on my GD hosted server.  I get stuck at the same place as Elizabeth (as expected.)  One thing that I see is that these "Checks" are in red, meaning that they must be fixed!  Many years ago I recall coming across a method to fix the UTF-8 problem, but not the Barracuda problem.

Although installing Moodle on a hosted server might be a quick way to go (if it were possible) I believe many hosted servers would run out of power or resources somewhat quickly.  This is why I would use a VPS.  (But who knows?)
Attachment GD Hosting Problem.jpg
In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Elizabeth Harden -
Interesting, though, that you got red checks on a few things that I didn't run into. I've decided to feel very grateful that between SiteGround and my very thin tech knowledge, I was able to work my way through all of the various warnings and issues except these last two.

Based on what you and Ken Task have written, I'm now worried about the impacts of running my install on InnoDB Antelope servers. I'm clear on the impacts of utf8 vs utf8mb4. But in what ways will not being in Barracuda file format hamstring me or otherwise impact user experience?

At this point, I'm not in a position to change everything up and move to VPS. Moodle is an experiment. I'm a big fan of open source and Moodle seems very well-suited to my needs (as I envision them). But before I get in too deep, I want to make sure I have some growing room before I am forced to make big, complicated, expensive decisions.
In reply to Elizabeth Harden

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

Aren't you sorta asking for someone to project into the future?  Sorry ... no Vulcan Mind Meld possible by me ... maybe someone else.

Moving shared hosting to a low end VPS might be all you need to escape current *yellow* checks.  Kinda depends upon what one will be doing with it ... obviously running a MOOC out of the question.

Right now you have a small slice of shared resources.  SG should be able to move the shared host to a VPS of your choosing and hopefully, SG provides an upgrade path without any 'heavy lifting' by you.

https://www.siteground.com/cloud-hosting.htm

At the above link one has a link to build your own - more means more $.

But ... do you plan to sell access to courses?   How much in demand would your courses be?  At how much per user?  Heck, at $250.00 access per person per course ... the SG SuperPower $240.00 per month is paid for a month by one customer and you have $10.00 for MacDonalds left!  ;)

Can tell this for sure ... having more than enough is better than not having enough.  And correctly configured .. no reds and no checks normally perform well without hickups.

My 2 cents, of course.

'SoS', Ken

In reply to Ken Task

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Elizabeth Harden -

No, I was asking more "specifically, what won't work if I am not on Barracuda." I already know what won't work with utf8.

I'm not big into predicting the future, just making sure I'm prepared as much as possible for the known unknowns. That makes it easier to handle the Unk Unks.

My thought is that paid courses might be down the road but that's not the immediate plan, no.

In reply to Elizabeth Harden

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Ken Task -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers

"I was asking more "specifically, what won't work" ... well, in order to know that someone would have to host where you host, break whatever is broken in the same way, and put the that site through various test etc. to know and report back to you.   Sorry ... don't have the time.

Am not into moving backwards .... only forward ... and since most in these forums have a goal to make their moodles work with as few 'bumps' as possible not sure anyone would take the time.

Maybe Rick has the time .... Rick?

Best of luck!

'SoS', Ken


In reply to Ken Task

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers
I am still puzzled, Elizabeth, about you selecting SiteGuard. Are you doing this only to learn Moodle, or do you really plan to offer courses in this SiteGuard Moodle? How many students do you anticipate having each year? How many courses?

(Maybe you have mentioned this somewhere and I just don't see it. If so, sorry.)

I never have time for anything, just everything, and not nothing.  smile
In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Elizabeth Harden -
Rick,

I've been hosting my Wordpress-powered site on SiteGround for several years now. I've been quite happy with them (after many unhappy years with other hosts).

The implementation of Moodle was not planned well in advance. I only recently discovered it during my investigation into LMS options. I don't know yet how many students I anticipate. I don't know how many courses. I was originally pointed in the direction of Thinkific, Kajabi, etc but they have limitations and charge a lot of money for features and services I have no use for.

I quite like Moodle and would certainly have no issue moving to a different type of account or a different host -- if and when that is necessary. That's part of what I'm trying to ascertain. I'd rather start out with Moodle knowing that I will outgrow my current hosting situation when I need X, Y, & Z features than start out on Thinkific and then have to port everything to a new platform. Plus have to learn the new platform.

The utf8 issue can be resolved but clearly doesn't need to be in order to run a functional site.

What I'm trying to ascertain is -- exactly what won't work if I stay on Antelope servers for the time being? If that's not a question that can be answered with the same definitive clarity as the utf8 question, I get that. Maybe it's simply a fuzzier issue? Maybe it all depends on what plugins I might want to implement? Maybe it will allow some core features to work but not others?

The error message for each shows the same level of "importance."  Addressing the utf8 issue isn't a dealbreaker. Is the Antelope vs Barracuda going to be?
In reply to Elizabeth Harden

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers
Great, Elizabeth.

Moodle is more demanding than WordPress. Maybe the real question is "what won't work if you stay with a shared hosted server (even if it did support Barracuda.)

Here's a thought. If you have less than 50 students, consider using the free MoodleCloud. Then, if you have more than 50 students, you might likely need a VPS, which will likely support Barracuda and many other needs.

Just so that you know, I was once in the same situation that you are in. I had a small hosted server, came across Moodle, and got it to work for around 80 students. This was before the Barracuda issue. But then, my hosting company emailed me and let me know that I was starting to reach my hosted server's resource limits. So, I had to upgrade to a VPS.

To explore Moodle, another thing that you can do is simply install it on your local computer. This won't be on the "Internet" but it will allow you to learn.

Might I ask "How did you install Moodle?" Did you use a one-step utility?  (I am not sure that I see this in the discussions.)
In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers
Elizabeth, I now see that you said you did not use Softaculous. The reason I was asking is that when I install moodle on my hosted server, I get "red" checks, and I cannot go any further. But you seem to have similar problems, but you get "orange" checks, and seem to go a little further than I. So this is puzzling.

After you get your "other checks" web page, are you able to click on "continue" or is this as far as you go?

Also, up above, you say that when you go to phpMyAdmin, that you DO NOT see a database. Is this still true?
In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Elizabeth Harden -

Rick,

Correct, I didn't use Softaculous. I did my own install.

You wrote "I get 'red' checks, and I cannot go any further.... (Y)ou get 'orange' checks, and seem to go a little further than i. After you get your "other checks" web page, are you able to click on 'continue' or is this as far as you go?"

To be clear, I have Moodle installed and it seems perfectly functional. I've created users, created categories, and created courses. I've installed a few plugins and a few themes. These all seem to work perfectly. I did initially have a few other warning messages -- about my php.ini, cron, and permissions, etc. I was able to address all of these on my own.

Once I found the orange "checks" about utf8 and Antelope, I tried entering an emoticon in a message text . One time I got a warning that I might lose all of my text but I tried a different time and didn't get the warning. So at least if a user tried to use an emoticon, they might get a warning before they lose everything they typed.

I have not run into any other issues. This is why I'm trying to get clarification on the limits I'll hit on Antelope -- before I invest any more time and energy learning Moodle and setting up a course. I'm talking about technical limitations. Just as the utf8 is a technical limitation. Are there any? What is it that Barracuda offers/affords in Moodle that Antelope doesn't?

I understand that I may well hit the limits of my current hosting plan. I was prepared for that. During the set up it was clear how much larger and complex Moodle is than WP and therefore one would assume a larger drain on resources, even when empty. The fact that Moodle wanted an every-minute cron job whereas SiteGround recommends nothing more frequent than every 30 mins -- that was a clue, too. wink

I greatly appreciate your on-going efforts to help me.

In reply to Elizabeth Harden

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
Hi

The thread is quite long, I don't get it all. As far as those two checks are concerned:
- Antelope to Barracuda: Moodle provides you PHP CLI scripts
- uft8 to utf8mb4: Again DB conversions and setting the default values in the DB config for future tables.

I understand that you problems are your hosting providers defaults and the limitations of your administration interface Cpanel. If that is the case, nobody here can change that. So the obvious solution is to change the hosting provider and/or the package. Don't worry about losing your work so far. It is easy to migrate a Moodle site. See https://docs.moodle.org/37/en/Moodle_migration.
Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Elizabeth Harden

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Michael Kang -

I spent all day trying to figure this out and here is what I did.
If you have access to phpMyAdmin, you can select your database and then select the "Operations" tab.

At the bottom of the Operations screen, there are options to change the 'Collation' for both the tables and the tables' columns.

Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Michael Kang

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers
Yes, but make sure to pick utf8mb4_unicode_ci.
In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Moodle 3.7, utf8 vs utf8mb4, and other conundrums

by Michael Kang -
Hello Rick,

Yes, you are right! That screenshot is wrong.
I am thrilled that you replied to my post! I was just reading your, "Making Boost do More" slides. smile