I think we failed

Re: I think we failed

by Stuart Mealor -
Number of replies: 7
"Maybe one day there will be a Moodle-Lite version that has only 20% of the features that 80% of most users need. I know there would never be a consensus about what those features are."
Absolutely.
I used to think a Moodle-Lite distribution would be a good idea.
But as you say, the 80% is different is every case - we have clients that use Moodle 'mostly' for quizzes, others 'mostly' for forums, other 'mostly' for assignments.
Although it's not addressing the click question, I think the way to go is possibly the simplify the defaults - I guess Gradebook being  good example, where the defaults should make the Gradebook super basic, and only when you enable specific features do those become available.
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In reply to Stuart Mealor

Re: I think we failed

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
No, Moodle-Lite is not a viable solution. What do you expect, Moodle HQ to maintain multiple flavours of Moodle, Moodle for babies, Moodle for grown ups, etc.?

More realistic and already partly available is push the strong plug-in architecture further. More pieces and features should be unselectable, like already done for the blog, badges, keywords, etc.
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In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: I think we failed

by Marcus Green -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
I like the idea of Moodle for normal people.
Average of ratings: Very cool (1)
In reply to Marcus Green

Moodle for babies, Moodle for grown ups, for normal people (by normal people) [OT]

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
Are you normal? Could you be more precise? What makes you think that you are normal?

Alice quote on that:
===
`What do you mean by that?' said the Caterpillar sternly. `Explain yourself!'

`I can't explain myself, I'm afraid, sir' said Alice, `because I'm not myself, you see.'

`I don't see,' said the Caterpillar.

`I'm afraid I can't put it more clearly,' Alice replied very politely, `for I can't understand it myself to begin with; and being so many different sizes in a day is very confusing.'

`It isn't,' said the Caterpillar.

`Well, perhaps you haven't found it so yet,' said Alice; `but when you have to turn into a chrysalis--you will some day, you know--and then after that into a butterfly, I should think you'll feel it a little queer, won't you?'

https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rgs/alice-V.html

BTW, Marcus, you've forgotten the smiley. With or without one, I don't appreciate you taking my post as a joke. I was serious in my previous post.
sad
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In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: Moodle for babies, Moodle for grown ups, for normal people (by normal people) [OT]

by Marcus Green -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
"Are you normal? "

Absolutely not.

I spend most of my waking time thinking about or working on things related to Moodle, and have done for a very long time. I am an evangelist for Moodle which means I am biased. This makes it hard for me to view Moodle as most of humanity, who know little and care less about it.

People who have posted in this forum are not normal as

1. They are reading these forums
2. Even more defining, they have posted in these forums

I am not suggesting that this is a good or a bad thing, just that it is an important perspective. +1 for normal people, +1 for Moodle enthusiasts.

"Could you be more precise? What makes you think that you are normal?"
See above.
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In reply to Marcus Green

Re: Moodle for babies, Moodle for grown ups, for normal people (by normal people) [OT]

by Cris Fuhrman -
My comment above about Google measuring usage (of what 80% of the people use most) is what will define 'normal' in a way that's hard to argue about. People expressing opinions in Forums is not the way to set software features; plenty of experts will tell you that.
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In reply to Cris Fuhrman

Re: Moodle for babies, Moodle for grown ups, for normal people (by normal people) [OT]

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
Hi Cris

What do you mean: a) 80% of the people use Google. b) I use Google. Conclusion: I am normal?
smile

More seriously, I see that my choice of the subject line is misleading. When I said "Moodle for babies", they are not first babies and then moodlers, but the other way around: They are already moodlers, but still can not stand analogues to toddlers. But don't misunderstand, no disrespect meant. In fact it is the contraty: We don't look down at our babies (metaphorically), don't we?

Even more seriously, your post https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=390831#p1587092 qualify you to be not the "typical" Moodle user.
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In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: Moodle for babies, Moodle for grown ups, for normal people (by normal people) [OT]

by Cris Fuhrman -
I realize normal is arbitrary (I'm definitely not normal!), but at some point it should be defined for the purpose of deciding what to pursue for the sustainability of a system.

Anecdote: The Moodle support team at our university told us at a meeting some years ago that 100% of Moodlers were using Moodle to distribute course content, that some lower percentage <50% were using quizzes, and nearly 0% were using Workshop activities. Their conclusion: do more training on workshop, since it's a great feature that's just being under-used.

My conclusion (having tried it!), it's a great feature, but the problem is how to work it into a good pedagogy (something the Moodle training people fail at, because they mostly do IT support). 

The reality is (as sad as this may be) a majority of the Moodle users will never create a Workshop, yet the source code, the tests, the application logic that is inside other classes, etc. remain and have a "cost" to the Moodle project. They take up time and energy, making the overall project harder to understand and extend. 

Now, take the same idea and apply it to those 20+ options to configuring a quiz, the numerous question types, the support for old browsers and versions of Moodle, etc. It's not about babies or grownups, it's about focusing a limited (open source) energy onto the things that affect the most users in a world where IT is changing super fast. I think it's what's happening at Google and Canvas and who knows what else.

Meanwhile, this semester's experiment is going very well with my course using Google Classroom. Do I miss the pedagogical value of customized feedback on wrong answers in multiple choice questions in Google Quizzes? You bet! But I'm also super happy not to have to give bonus points if students ask questions in the Moodle forums (which they hate). They're using comments in Google documents to ask me questions on the text they write (so much more precise). They ask public questions in the classroom "feed" (like Facebook) on the work I assign them. Those things have way more pedagogical value (to me) right now. Plus, the clicking for me to set things up is so much less. 

I realize I'm ignoring the "freeness" aspect and it's not an entirely fair comparison, but this is the real world.
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