Moodle 3.9 on roadmap

Moodle 3.9 on roadmap

by Dennis Felix -
Number of replies: 9

We are currently planning ahead for our LMS releases. We are still using 3.2 now and have come up with some scenarios for an upgrade path.

Our platform is quite large with many students and teachers so we want to avoid unnecessary upgrades, until we reach the next LTS release.

In the future we will be strictly using the LTS releases of Moodle.

We would like to know if 3.9 is slated for release in may 2020 and if it will be seen as an LTS release. We have deducted from the current release schedule that it will, but I'd like for this to be confirmed so we can actually plan around this.

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In reply to Dennis Felix

Re: Moodle 3.9 on roadmap

by Howard Miller -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers
Firstly, please consider updating your profile and changing to your *real* name. We like to know who we are talking to!

The last time I asked... there is NO official policy for LTS releases. They are made when Moodle HQ feels that there is a "demand". This situation may have changed but I couldn't find anything to suggest that is the case.

You should note that LTS releases don't give you a huge advantage. The only support provided is for security releases. You don't get bug fixes. I would recommend that you keep more or less up to date with the standard release schedule and use fully supported releases in production (i.e. for bugs and security fixes).

Support finished completely for Moodle 3.2 over a year ago. I would strongly encourage you to upgrade as soon as you can.
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In reply to Howard Miller

Re: Re: Moodle 3.9 on roadmap

by Dennis Felix -
I suspected Moodle HQ would release a new LTS release before the previous one is considered EOL but I wanted to confirm, for which I'm glad I did.

The stability of a LTS is more important to us than the shorter release paths. It's simply not feasible to update every version and only updating "sometimes" brings us in our current predicament. The standard release schedule is therefor not an option. Please see my other reply in this thread to avoid providing the same information.
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In reply to Dennis Felix

Re: Re: Re: Moodle 3.9 on roadmap

by Howard Miller -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers
I can only give you my opinion/advise. It really depends on how you define "stability". If a serious bug or security issue turns up that affects your site then you have a problem if you can't simply do a minor point upgrade. That's exactly when you find yourself having to do a major upgrade when you really didn't want to.

To my mind, stability is keeping up with releases. Putting yourself in a position where - for whatever reason (it doesn't matter) - you cannot simply upgrade to get out of trouble is a bad place to be. Remember, even an LTS release doesn't help you with a "show stopping" bug. 

However, you might be lucky. 

...I don't see "another reply in this thread" btw
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In reply to Dennis Felix

Re: Moodle 3.9 on roadmap

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
+1 to Howard

The duration of bug fixes for general core bugs are the same in LTS and non-LTS, being just 12 Months. The difference is in the duration of bug fixes for security issues: LTS gets 36 months whereas non-LTS gets only 18 months. See https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Releases.

If you want stability in the sense no flood of new features but also no security holes, LTS is still a major improvement.

My questions are:
- if you march along LTS, how come 3.2?
- Looking up from 3.2, the next LTS is 3.5 (not 3.9 or whatever). I know, the support duration just ended. Still 3.5 is a solid version.

N.B. Yes, I too prefer talking to real persons. The tone of my posts changes accordingly. wink
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In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: Re: Moodle 3.9 on roadmap

by Dennis Felix -
Hi, thank you for your reply.

We are currently using 3.2 because that is how it is handed over. We have no internal roadmap of how the updates used to go, but at some point they stopped updating at 3.2. We have taken over the management of the LMS and are now looking into all the options and working out a way forward. We are already experiencing problems with outdated or unsupported plugins and we would like a more stable environment for a longer period of time. If we follow the regular releases this means it will be a yearly task to check the templates and workings of plugins, considering our size we cannot afford to do this every year. Skipping 1 year puts us in a problem area without updates and updating during the schoolyear is definitely not an option.

The next LTS release from 3.2 is indeed 3.5, which is currently in consideration as an upgrade path, but if we went the in-between path we are probably better off going to 3.7 before 3.9.
We have been internally testing 3.6 and found that many workflows ceased to exist due to plugin problems, so we want to avoid too many jumps in the future.

One of the plans put forward is a 3 year stability situation where people can expect nothing will break and then at the end of the term start with a clean slate, fresh UI etc, that is properly tested.
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In reply to Dennis Felix

Re: Re: Re: Moodle 3.9 on roadmap

by Jez H -
I am not sure how much of an advantage that will give you vs doing this once a year, unless "clean slate" means a fresh install and you avoid an upgrade all together?

Upgrading once a year is on the face of it more work as you have to run three times the number of upgrades, but trying to upgrade very old versions to newer ones is a lot more work than any one of those upgrades. You would not be reducing the overall work by a full two thirds, but would have stability in the mean time.

Although there may not be a formal policy on LTS I would be surprised if Moodle did not continue with their current pattern for LTS.
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In reply to Dennis Felix

Re: Re: Re: Moodle 3.9 on roadmap

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
You don't have to defend why a yearly upgrade cycle is too much for your organization. I know organizations, who want to be left alone with the Moodle version they had for years! Note that I am not talking about developers or system administrators. No, I am talking about users, who happen to be teachers in the case of Moodle.

Assuming that Moodle HQ will keep up the pattern of every fourth version is a LTS, as in 2.7 > 3.1 > 3.5, you can have two yearly upgrade strategy. A three year plan doesn't fit to Moodle's aggressive upgrade strategy.

Your current problem is though how to start, with 3.5 or 3.9? I personally consider 3.2 > 3.9 will be a too wide jump for the ordinary user. As you have already experienced around 3.4 and again 3.7 much has happened. My "stability oriented" plan would be therefore 3.5 > 3.9. Please note that I define stability different from the others. See my previous post.
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In reply to Dennis Felix

Re: Re: Moodle 3.9 on roadmap

by Susana L. -
Hi Dennis,

I can talk about our experience with a large Moodle installation. Since 2.7 that we keep on LTS versions (2.7 -> 3.1 -> 3.5) so we don't need to make major upgrades every year (avoid new issues, feature changes, teachers complaining about those changes sorriso) and we can still have an up to date version of Moodle only with minor version upgrades. For me LTS versions are a really smart move from Moodle HQ and I hope they keep that strategy...
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In reply to Dennis Felix

Re: Moodle 3.9 on roadmap

by Michael Hawkins -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Testers
Hi all,

The current plan is for 3.9 to be the next LTS version when it is released (scheduled for May 2020), however it won't be finalised until closer to that time, since we may alter that depending on changes in circumstances.
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