taskchain files not available

taskchain files not available

by Melvin Shantz -
Number of replies: 10

Probably a very boring heading to this message. 

I have created a backup of a course that works great and am doing some updates based in a restoration of an update of that course.

Oddly, some, not all, of the taskchain files aren't available until a date somewhat far off in the future.

I am in Dec. 2018 here and get this message.


Am using Moodle 3.5 with a fairly recent version of Taskchain (summer 2018) which is when I last updated the site. I rarely update when courses are in session.

Note that the course is available as a of Nov. 2018. And there are no dates set in the taskchain limiting its availability. And the course is totally available.

I will update in January to the latest version of everything and maybe that will solve things.

Am I missing something obvious here.

Tx,
Mel

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In reply to Melvin Shantz

Re: taskchain files not available

by Gordon Bateson -
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Hi Mel,

Does that task in fact have a date set?
I'm talking about the individual task, not the TaskChain activity.

If the task does have a start date, are you saying that the task did NOT have a start date set before you backed up, but if DID have a start set after you restored? Thank would be highly unexpected behavior and we should investigate further.

Gordon

In reply to Gordon Bateson

Re: taskchain files not available

by Melvin Shantz -

So the taskchain had been closed in the backed up version as it had been closed to students at one point in the last session. Those settings show up here.


So I removed the available until date.


But I still get this message.


So I explore further.

And I also check here where other tasks have dates but I don't see a restriction on the taskchain in question.

So I verified once again the taskchain setting.


So as far as I can tell, any of the settings that might have played a role here have been checked. Other than to remove the "Available until" setting, I haven't touched anything else and am not sure what else there is to check out.

Won't touch anything else in case I get instructions from you on something to check.

Thanks for getting back to me Gordon. My solution to the problem so far has been to delete the taskchain and recreate it which eliminates the problem.

Mel

In reply to Melvin Shantz

Re: taskchain files not available

by Gordon Bateson -
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Hmm, I don't think you are looking in the right place.

You are looking at the date restrictions on the TaskChain activity, but the message says that one of the "tasks" within that TaskChain activity has a date restriction.

Please try this:

  1. On the Course page, click the link to view the TaskChain activity in question, "ES089"
  2. In the Administration block, click "Edit tasks"
  3. From the "Show columns" menu, select "Time restrictions"

Can you see any tasks there with an "Available from/until" date set, possibly to "28th March 2019"?
If so, that's where you should concentrate your attention.

If no dates are set and the message continues to be shown, please put the backup file somewhere on your server, and send me a private email (bateson dot gordon at-sign kochi-tech.ac.jp) with the URL so that I can download it and investigate on my development server.

Attachment TaskChain.ShowColumns.png
In reply to Gordon Bateson

Re: taskchain files not available

by Melvin Shantz -

Got it. It means that time restrictions can be set in two places. Not sure on all of the logic here. Perhaps there teachers who like not only an overall setting on a taskchain but also the chance to restrict students to individual tasks in a chain. Not a feature I could imagine using. It is either all on or all off for me. Although it crossed my mind in exploring for this issue: if I could close and open dates for several taskchains at a time, it would really save time when closing multiple taskchains (lessons) to students.

To sum up:

 1. The time restrictions for the taskchain had no time restrictions in the basic edit settings menu that you access on the course page as a teacher or via the Edit Settings menu in the taskchain admin menu.


But when I would choose an individual task, I would get the following time restriction.


So, as advised, I went into the edit tasks menu via the Taskchain admin - Edit Tasks menu and chose the Time restrictions column where, sure enough, there were time restrictions on individual tasks as seen below.


Choosing the edit button - seen to the left of the X in the image above -  opened the chance to modify those time restrictions plus a whole range of other things, including the files themselves. So the time restrictions image below was found via the Edit Tasks menu and not the Edit Settings menu like the first image in this note was.


This problem solved. One last related question though. Do you have any advice on the saving of backups as related to this issue? Should I remove course access dates or something else to ensure that the dates on all of the taskchains don't move forward? Or is there something I could consider when restoring a course? 

Thanks Gordon.

Mel

In reply to Melvin Shantz

Re: taskchain files not available

by Gordon Bateson -
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Thanks Mel.

Changing settings on multiple tasks

If you just wanted to change/remove the dates, you don't have to do them individually.

Once you change, the "Available from" date on the first task, then that will be used as the "Default" date for that setting, and you can select all the other tasks, using the checkboxes in the "Select" column, and apply the default value to all those tasks, using the settings at the bottom of that "Edit tasks" page.

Why did this happen?

At the moment, I hope and believe that those dates are only there because they came from the backup file. In which case, the tasks that were originally backed up also have dates. Note, that the dates get adjusted when restored if you set a course start date as part of the restore.

Therefore, what I think I happened is that those tasks originally had an "Available from" date that was in the past, but was six months after that start of the course. Let's say the course started in Sept 2017, then the "Available from" dates were March 2018. The tasks were backed up and then restored. During the restore the course start date was set to Sept 2018, and consequently the task start dates were set to March 2019.

Although you didn't notice that the original tasks had start dates, because they were in the past, they were there all along.

Advice for future backups

Your greatest weapon against preventing this issue in the future is simply being aware of how the dates work and are manipulated. I think this thread has heightened your awareness, and I don't imagine it will cause you problems in the future.

Please continue to spread your knowledge, as you have done when posting your resolution of the issue.
Thanks very much approve

In reply to Gordon Bateson

Re: taskchain files not available

by Melvin Shantz -

So when I went to implement what Gordon has suggested here, I found it to be logical but a bit complex. So I am documenting it for the benefit of anyone that has run into the same problem here.

Just to sum up, I saved a back up copy of a course and then restored it. We are at about Moodle 3.5 at the time of publication here. And I had Taskchains that weren't available because the restored Taskchain dates were advanced based on the start date of the newly restored course. This, I assume, is because they had been closed to students in the course I had backed up. So any task I clicked on in a Taskchain showed something like:


So, if you read through the thread above, you'll note that there is this discrepancy between close dates under Edit settings and Edit tasks. Edit tasks wins out over Edit settings. Perhaps this will evolve with future versions. I am not aware of all of the issues. But, to stick with my problem, I expected the entire Taskchain to be available and was unable to set that in Edit settings. So I choose Edit tasks.


This permitted me to view the settings for the individual tasks in a chain. i I enter the first task using the Edit "individual" Chain as indicated below:


And you see, the individual tasks are unavailable on an individual basis even though the entire chain is available as a whole, if this makes sense to you. Compare above to below if it doesn't.


So I enter the settings for the first task and change the date for the first task.


Which makes this task available. But only this task. As seen here:


The problem is when you have a lot of tasks. I sometimes have up to 10 or 15 tasks in a chain and many Taskchains, let's say up to 40 or 50, adding up to hundreds of individual tasks in a single in a Moodle course. And based on the way Taskchain functions right now, you have to enter each task and repeat the process. So as Gordon explains in this thread, you can set a default for each chain by making a change to the first task on the chain and then apply it to the rest of the chain. The next images are an attempt to demonstrate this process which is really useful when you have many tasks in a chain and perhaps many Taskchains in a course. Here is what you do. Note that you are in the "Time restrictions" columns.


And when you press on "go,"  the end result is what you want. Each of the task gets set to the default which in this case is no date set for individual tasks. It means that in my restored course, the students can enter this particular chain and do all of the tasks in it. It also means that when I set start and stop dates in "Edit Chain", it will apply to each task in the chain.


I quite admire the incredible flexibility that Gordon had integrated into Taskchain here. However, I should say that, really, most of my time, as a pedagogue, is spent creating the individual files that go into a Taskchain. And I think of a Taskchain as a whole when creating each one which is, I suspect, and would hope, is the case of most teachers using this tool. 

As a result, I would prefer that the Time Restrictions in "Edit Chain" apply to each task in the chain in a single change. This means that when you change the availability in "Edit Chain", it overrides what "Edit Tasks" might think for each individual task. It is, quite frankly, what I suspect how most teachers think about a Taskchain meaning that few teachers likely set individual tasks in a chain differently than the entire task. And if they want different tasks to have different settings, they create a new chain. If I am wrong here, then please speak up.

Sorry if this post is kind of complicated. But if you have run into the same issue that I have here, then I assume that it all makes sense. Thanks for reading. And thanks, Gordon, for helping to clarify the technical issues of this most useful tool that you have created and maintained so faithfully.

I use Hot Potatoes, the Michael Rottmeier hacks for Hot Potatoes, Quandry, Rhubarb, Sequitor, Moodle and Taskchain which I consider extremely powerful pedogogical tools when used in combination. They aren't the only thing I use as a Moodle user. But Taskchain brings that list of things above in a the most wonderful way. It is a lot of work to build pedogical content but my students benefit greatly. And Taskchain sets each set of learning objects, as named above, up so nicely. I worry Gordon about the day you might decide that you need to retire and move on to other things.

Note: the images in this post have been create using Snagit and the SnagIt editor.

Mel

In reply to Melvin Shantz

Re: taskchain files not available

by Melvin Shantz -

A couple of quick questions here Gordon. The first is related directly to this thread.

1. Any chance, as a future feature, of the "Time restrictions" settings in "Edit Settings" applying to all of the tasks in a single shot rather than having to do them both there and in "Edit Tasks?" I don't know, if it is an issue for some users, then perhaps there could be a check box in Edit Settings that says to apply the a change there to all of the Tasks.

2. The second question has to do with the Hot Potatoes upgrade is in process. At some point, I imagine I will upgrade my files generated by these tools but need to know that it will all work in the context of Taskchain. Will an upgrade of Taskchain be necessary or does it tap into things that aren't going to be changed? How will we be informed that Taskchain is compatible with the upgrade? Here?

Thanks again. Hope I am not being too forward here.

Mel

In reply to Melvin Shantz

Re: taskchain files not available

by Melvin Shantz -

One more quick thing for those exploring the issue above. Once you have set the default settings by changing the settings of a single task, they remain in place until changed. Therefore you can apply them not only to the chain at hand but also to subsequent chains.

Mel

In reply to Melvin Shantz

Re: taskchain files not available

by Gordon Bateson -
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1. Thanks for the idea. I'll think about this. Perhaps it can be included in a future release.

2. Is there an upgrade of Hot Potatoes being considered. I haven't heard about that before. Do you have a link with more info?

In reply to Gordon Bateson

Re: taskchain files not available

by Melvin Shantz -

I am on the Hot Potatoes mailing list and the information has been coming to me from that. Although there is a note about it at the Hot Potatoes website at the University of Victoria. https://hotpot.uvic.ca/

There are some regulars on that list many of whom are involved in beta testing and adapting various hacks that have been developed for HP like the ever so useful Rottmeier hacks. Martin Holmes sent out an email with the list of things they had in mind and a fair bit of progress has been made. The best would be to get in touch with Martin Holmes via the list. The list address is also at the link above.

Thanks for considering the idea regarding time restrictions. 

Mel