SCORM

Captivate - Moodle & attempts

 
Picture of Dick Coppus
Captivate - Moodle & attempts
 

Hi All,

I am testing an eLearning that I build with Captivate within Moodle. I'm a little bit stuck with the Attempts part.

There are 2 scenario's that I would love to know:

First scenario:

The Captivate eLearning quiz section has 3 attempts. I set the quiz settings to 3 attempts in Captivate. When I upload the SCORM into Moodle at the end of the quiz I have the retake quiz button and can do the quiz again. But Moodle keeps seeing this as 1 attempt even if I retook the quiz 3 times. How can I solve this issue? I could take out the retake button and force the user to close the eLearning and make them reopen it for a new attempt. Problem is, that the eLearning opens on the last screen that they were on in the previous attempt. 


Second scenario:

Same story. eLearning build in Captivate. I gave the quiz unlimited attempts. But Moodle keeps seeing it as one attempt. 


The main question basically is, how do make sure that the user can do more attempts and these attempts are being monitored by Moodle.


Any help is welcome.


Thanks in advance

 
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Picture of Howard Miller
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
Core developersDocumentation writersParticularly helpful MoodlersPlugin developers

Moving to SCORM forum...

 
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Picture of Shirley Gregorczyk
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
 

Hello,

Have you adjusted your SCORM settings to allow for unlimited attempts?


 
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Picture of Dick Coppus
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
 

Hi Shirley,

I have the same settings as in your screenshot.

The problem is the following:

The eLearning is build in captivate and here I also can set the attempts. I kept these the same as the attempt settings in Moodle.
When the user finishes the quiz a results screen appears with a button asking the user to retake the quiz (in case He/She did'nt pass).
When the user clicks the button to retake the quiz, it jumps back to the first quiz slide. You would say it's correct, but Moodle still sees this as the first attempt. Because when I close the eLearning, I see 1 attempt has been reported. I could solve this by letting the use first close the eLearning and reopen it, so a new session starts. Problem is, Moodle remembers were I was left. So after finishing the quiz and reopening I start at the results screen. 

Basically what I need is the following 2 scenarios:

Either I gave the user 3 attempts or unlimited attempts but I want all attempts to be reported to Moodle. So the user takes the quiz, finds out if He/She made it. If the user did'nt pass He/She should be able to retake the quiz (3 times or unlimited) but when retaking a new attempt should be reported in Moodle. Hope it's a little clear what I mean. It probably is a setting thing between Moodle and Captivate, but I have no clue were to find it.


 
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Picture of Melanie Scott
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
Particularly helpful Moodlers

The problem is that you are telling captivate to do something but expecting Moodle to respond in kind.  When you allow a captivate quiz to 'retake', you're allowing a retake in the same activity attempt.  It would be like creating a quiz in adaptive mode but expecting it to show three separate attempts.  It won't.

Moodle will allow you to start a new attempt and a new Moodle attempt counts.  It won't count quiz attempts in the same activity attempt.  If you set the captivate module to restrict to one quiz attempt and status representation as incomplete->passed/failed, Moodle scorm activity to three attempts, your students who do not pass should be able to open a new attempt (check the box Start new attempt). 

And I say should because Captivate is...well, weird.  No guarantees.  Test it with a student account first. I've used both Captivate and Lectora, iSpring and modules from some defunct programs that require specific browsers, eXe, talked to people who use Articulate/Storyline about how their stuff works...and Captivate is weird.  And if you point out problems in the program to Adobe...their response is this: "Well, if you don't like it, use something else."  Sigh.

 
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Picture of Dick Coppus
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
 
Yeah Captivate is not the best program I found out. Also with developing the eLearning many things are setup in such a weird way. Not logical at all.

Worked with Storyline in the past and must say it's much much better.

Soo if I understand you correctly. I will state 1 attempt within Captivate and State a text saying "if you didn't pass the quiz, please close the eLearning with the close button below and check if you have any attempts left to try it again" (is their a way to force close the module by the way?)

Then in Moodle I can either state to have 3 attempts or unlimited. When reopening the quiz Moodle will force the eLearning to start from the beginning if I check the box "start new attempt"? (Will I find this Box with the settings for the Module within Moodle?)

 
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Picture of Melanie Scott
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
Particularly helpful Moodlers

It isn't that I hate Captivate (it is really awesome for software simulations), just it is weird and Adobe has terrible customer support.  I used to use Lectora, which was awesome.  Their customer support was decent and their product, while complex, made sense.  You could create a button that usually appeared on all pages but individually remove it on one with very little effort...in captivate, you have to hide the button with an advanced action (assuming you want more than one thing to happen, which is why you hide buttons to begin with) and then remember to set up another action to show it on the next page.  Grrr.  The playbar/skin is okay but you can't (easily) control where the buttons go (Why does back go to the previous page and not the previously viewed page!?! How does that make sense?).  The Trivantis (lectora) community wasn't awesome but the rest of the stuff was good.  I always liked the Articulate community better than any other (though I've never used Articulate or Storyline)...so useful and supportive.  Why can't everyone be like that?!? Enough ranting.

If you want to see separate SCORM attempts, yes, that is how you do it.  It will require them to restart the entire module, not just the quiz.  Of course, if they failed, that might not be a bad thing.

The Start new attempt box appears on the content structure page (so this won't help if you hide the page in SCORM settings; this is the page with the activity description and Enter button) when you have a current attempt.  I'm never quite sure if it looks for completion, some score or what to display the box--even with Lectora modules, sometimes the box would display before completion was achieved (causing confusion when the student closes the module for some reason and reopens it to complete--some people assume they have to restart and check the box, which means they start over, etc).

 
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Picture of Dick Coppus
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
 

Hi Melanie,

I have just tried to upload the eLearning with the settings, but still it's not working.

- I set the eLearning attempts to 1 in Captivate
- I uploaded the eLearning to Moodle and gave it 3 attempts

After doing my first attempt and reopening the eLearning it starts at the results screen again and not in the beginning. When I click the arrow in the bottom of my eLearning it restarts the eLearning (I want the eLearning to immediately start from the beginning with every new attempt) when I arrive at the questions, it shows Me my answers and review of the first attempt. 

I'm so sorry, I feel like an idiot. I have no clue why this is not working. Did I miss something?


 
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Picture of Melanie Scott
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
Particularly helpful Moodlers

smile  Easy to misunderstand.  There should be a box that says start new attempt above the Enter button that you click to open the module.  You have to check the box before you click the enter button.

 
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Picture of Dick Coppus
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
 

Hi Melanie,

Sorry for my late reaction. I don't see this box in my screen. I attached a screenshot that I took. This is what I see.
SO bascially that box will make sure a new attempt starts, but will it also restart the module, or will it still open the last screen?

There is not a better way to start fresh attempts? Because students might not check the box and keep starting in attempt 1. 


 
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Picture of Melanie Scott
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
Particularly helpful Moodlers

You might need to fiddle with settings.  Looks like you have preview mode turned on.  I would turn it off. That causes confusion, too.  No...the box isn't appearing here--that implies it isn't 'complete'...you might check your completion criteria (are you using completion criteria?).  When it works it looks like this:

Start new attempt

These are the setting I tend to use:

Scorm settings

activity completion criteria

I like to use require grade (not here, this isn't one of mine) more than passed but completed tends to work okay.

 
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Picture of Dick Coppus
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
 

Hi Melanie,

I'm sorry but I can't find these settings anywhere sad your screenshot does make sense. 

Could you tell me how I get to this section of settings?

 
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Picture of Melanie Scott
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
Particularly helpful Moodlers

These are the settings for the SCORM activity.  If you have a scorm activity, Edit Settings.  You will have to expand them and click Show more (which I don't love), but they are there...these are 3.4, but they don't look substantially different than previous versions.

The Activity completion options only show up if a) completion is turned on for the site (Advanced features) and b) completion tracking is turned on for the course (course settings).

 
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Picture of Dick Coppus
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
 

Hi Melanie,

I will have a look at it tonight. Worstcase scenario, would it be possible to have a quick Skype session one day so I can share my screen with you and you can have a look at settings. The client just came back from holiday and I spoke with him about His wishes for the eLearning.



 
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Picture of Dick Coppus
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
 

Hi Melanie,

It took Me a while, but `I found all the settings that you mentioned. I also turned on "activity completion" in to locations, but I still don't have the "start new attempt" button sad

 
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Picture of Melanie Scott
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
Particularly helpful Moodlers

First thought...is the module marking itself complete (or passed) when you look at the interaction data?  The Start new attempt button only appears when the previous attempt is complete or passed, depending on your settings.  If it isn't...

Maybe the problem is the Captivate project settings?  Do your captivate project Quiz (Reporting) settings (Edit->Preferences) look like this:

Captivate Not reporting


or like this:

Captivate Reporting(generally)?

If it is the first, it may never report that the module is complete, and then never show the new attempt button.  Moodle doesn't love SCORM 2004, so that can cause some problems, too, if it is not set to 1.2.  Outside of that, I'm out of ideas.

 
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Picture of Dick Coppus
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
 

Hi Melanie,

Yesterday morning I solved it and it was the setting for "status representation" and I see we thought about the same thing. You have no idea how happy I was when that "start new attempt" button appeared. smile

I will have to do some other test with things, but this is checked for now.

Thanks so much for your time and ideas. It helped loads and thought me a lot about Moodle.

 
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Picture of Melanie Scott
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
Particularly helpful Moodlers

Woo-hoo!  Glad it worked.

 
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Picture of Dick Coppus
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
 

Hi Melanie,

I hope I can ask you a few questions about Moodle again. I did a Skype with my client and let him play around with the Moodle environment, He made comments about all the extra things Moodle offers (blog, events etc.) and at a certain moment He even got stuck and couldn't find the homepape with the courses.

Therefor I would like to ask if the following things are possible:

- When a user logs in or enrolls, I would like them to come back on the "Site Home" environment
- I would love to hide the "Site pages" as my client start clicking on it and got lost
- In the top it shows "My sites" "Events" etc. I would like to have this out for the students
- The student account shows "Latest badges", "Online users", "Calendar", "upcoming events " and "Private Files" this I also would like to have out. (I thought I already had delete it, but it keeps appearing.
- In the right top we have a button saying "Hide blocks" here my client also got lost. He clicked it and lost his link to go back to the "Site home"
- On the "Site home" a text says, Available courses. We would love to have a little guidance text underneed, is it possible to put text here?
- Is it possible to change text names and how will the translation function of Moodle deal with it?

We basically want it to be dummy proof. The eLearning is for farmers and my client is a Veterinarian, but if He already gets lost I think the farmers will really get lost smile


So sorry for all the questions, if you can't help I totally understand. I will play around with Moodle also in the meantime.



 
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Picture of Melanie Scott
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
Particularly helpful Moodlers

Where the student ends up depends totally on your set up.  You'll probably want to start in Site administration and front page settings.  These determine what you want on your front page.  You can add text to the front page, Announcements (a special kind of forum), anything you want.  You might also want to add a little tutorial for people to take on the front page--maybe a quick software demo built in Captivate? Boost theme has a tutorial or two that auto-show--which drives me nuts--that might be helpful to newbies. 

Site administration gives access to an advanced features, so if you don't want blogs, you can turn them off; if you want course completion, you can turn it on, etc.  I do recommend enabling completion and stealth activities but the second might be a little advanced for what you're currently doing (but it is very cool).

Site Administration->Appearance will allow you to add/remove stuff to the default dashboard--if you do it to your own dashboard, it only applies to yours, do it here to apply it to everyone.  To remove blocks you don't like/want, delete them here (turn blocks editing on first).  You can do the same to default profile page (not quite sure how that works) and courses defaults. Site Administration->Appearance->Navigation will let you choose the default home page (Site home, for example).

Site Administration->Plugins->Manage blocks will let you hide blocks you don't want to use at all and modify settings for a few (like if you don't want to show an All courses link).  I would recommend hiding, not uninstalling (you never know when you might want it back).

As for 'losing' his site home link...he didn't lose it, he probably just minimized the block (unless he was on his dashboard and turned blocks editing on, at which point, he could add the block back in--probably a bit advanced).  I think you must be using a non-boost them (you can't minimize blocks in boost, as far as I can tell (though that is a feature I like). If he  has the hide option (probably -), there is also a show option (probably +).  He might also have a <, which will dock the block on the left side (love this feature, but it is not in boost)--but you have to look and see that it is on the left; mousing over the left tab opens the block for use.

I'm hoping this is helpful.  I am a little slow today...

 
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Picture of Dick Coppus
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
 

Hi Melanie,

Thanks so much for the help again. I went and play with the settings and the structure of Moodle is beginning to make sense to me now.
Your info did help a lot. I managed to solved almost everything.

The only thing that I still need to do is remove the site pages from the side menu, the items in it are already out or disabled. And I need to remove some items from the top navigation. I think this can only be done with custom css or some PHP adjustments isn't it?


THANKS AGAIN!!!!

 
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Picture of Melanie Scott
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
Particularly helpful Moodlers

Glad to help.  I'm not sure what you mean by side menu (is it a block?  The new side nav bar from Boost? Maybe a picture to show what you mean?).  If it is already disabled, they shouldn't see it.  You might try looking at it as a student (login to a student account)--it could be the issue is resolved for students but YOU still see the stuff because of your permissions.  And, you can change student permissions to not see things as a last ditch effort. 

Yes, I think CSS or PHP changes could probably do it but I'm entirely out of my depth on those topics.  I know they exist.  That's about it.  You could always try out some different themes and see if a different theme might be more to your liking--there are lots of custom themes and many are pretty slick.  They're easy to install and use--you could install them and then just apply them to a course (not the whole site) to see if they work for you.  Some require more set up than others (but those are sometimes the coolest ones).

 
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Picture of Dick Coppus
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
 

Hi Melanie,

The project was on hold for a while. And I had some time to breath, but the client came back with more requests.
Maybe you have any idea how to do this as i'm really getting lost with settings in Moodle. I changed the name of the uploaded eLearning and had to change it in 3 locations to make it show. Guess their is a story behind it, but I don't get it smile


Here are a few questions remaining:
- Can I change my text in the eLearning, things such as the registration text, courses we would like to name eLearnings etc.
- I now have a header image but when I click on a course that page has no header image anymore. How can I make sure it shows everywhere?
- Login as a quest should not be visible. How can I hide this?
- Students can now see a list of other students and I don't want them to see this. I went through all the settings and delete students form permissions but I still see the participants list.
- When someone enters the site and is not logged in, you only see courses in the left hand menu. This is perfect but on the right of it we would love to show some text to explain what this portal is for and what people can do here. Is it possible to have text here?
- A user can enter the course in preview mode. We don't want that as the user can already practice. Can you disable preview mode?
- A student still sees events in the top menu bar. But they can also create events. I also changed all the permissions but still they can make events. So the client said that it is okay if the Admin places events here and students can see it. So I placed a event as admin but it didn't appear in the student events list. Any idea what I might be doing wrong?
- Recent changes is visible for students and we want to hide it. Also this I can not find
- In the user profile you have things such as User Picture, Additional names, Interests and Optional. Can we remove these from the profile?
- In the user profile section you have a box "Miscellaneous" it shows blog entries etc. Can we remove this?
- Also the site pages keep showing up in locations. Can we make sure that these are removed everywhere?

Sorry for the big list with questions. Please let me know if you can help and want to help ofcourse.

 
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Picture of Melanie Scott
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
Particularly helpful Moodlers

I totally get that.  I have days (weeks...months) like that.  smile  I think most of these are not actually about scorm...but who's checking? (this might be when Dan says, I am...)

1. Can I change my text in the eLearning, things such as the registration text, courses we would like to name eLearnings etc.

The short answer is yes.  But I think you are looking for something more specific, like, how? and I'm not sure where you want that text to be changed.  In Moodle (Whole site or Course)?  In Captivate (as a whole course thing, like a preference, or throughout)?  Maybe give an example of what you have and what you want.

2. I now have a header image but when I click on a course that page has no header image anymore. How can I make sure it shows everywhere?

Where is your header?  Do you mean a Moodle site brand that doesn't show up when the scorm opens in a new window (you might think you want that...but it can be bad...maybe put the brand on your captivate)? Or do you mean in Captivate?  Is the header part of a Master slide?  Sometimes text on masters doesn't display right. Is it part of your preferences?

3.Login as a quest should not be visible. How can I hide this?

?  Login as guest? I'm hoping.  Go to Site Administration-> Plugins->Authentication scroll down, change guest login button to Hide.  I think this should take care of your problem.

4. Students can now see a list of other students and I don't want them to see this. I went through all the settings and delete students form permissions but I still see the participants list.

This might be a couple of questions.  Are you talking about the logged in users block?  If you remove student permission to see logged in participants, they can't see it.  You can see it because, as far as Moodle is concerned, you are God...not a student.  You can see anything.  Switch to student role or login to a student account (I have at least one 'test' student for just this purpose) to see how it displays or doesn't.  Depending on the activities or options available, you might not be able to completely block students from seeing other students (like forums).  Or if it is the block you're talking about, you could always disable the block entirely (hide it in the Site Administration->Plugins->Blocks area. I'd resist the urge to uninstall, just hide it).

5. When someone enters the site and is not logged in, you only see courses in the left hand menu. This is perfect but on the right of it we would love to show some text to explain what this portal is for and what people can do here. Is it possible to have text here?

Nearly anything is possible.  Just go to the front page (site home) and Edit Settings.  You can put anything you want in the front page.  It's a course, after all. 

6. A user can enter the course in preview mode. We don't want that as the user can already practice. Can you disable preview mode?

I'm guessing this is Captivate/scorm you are talking about here.  Yes.  Go to the scorm activity settings.  Open the Appearance area.  Click Show more (always click show more!).  Change disable preview mode to yes. Because, yes, you want it disabled.  I hate preview mode.  Better: Go to Site Admin->Plugins->SCORM package and set it to yes as a default.  I just did this and I'm super excited about it.

7.  A student still sees events in the top menu bar. But they can also create events. I also changed all the permissions but still they can make events. So the client said that it is okay if the Admin places events here and students can see it. So I placed a event as admin but it didn't appear in the student events list. Any idea what I might be doing wrong?

I'm not sure entirely what you're asking.  If they add events, do they add them as user, course, category or site?  I'm not sure if you can modify.  Training them to add their events only for user? I've never had a problem with this...not sure how it works.  You might post a question in a non-scorm area where not scorm people who use the calendar/upcoming events blocks can give you better info.

8. Recent changes is visible for students and we want to hide it. Also this I can not find

Recent activity?  I just delete that block.  Then no one sees it. But if you want to keep it, go to the block settings, choose Permissions. Remove the student role from the view permissions. (You could do this for the logged in users block, too).

9. In the user profile you have things such as User Picture, Additional names, Interests and Optional. Can we remove these from the profile?

Is it possible?  Yes.  Is it a good idea?  NO.  Customizing these would possibly interfere with upgrades later.  The less you hack core, the better off you are.  You might be able to hide them.  Site Administration->Users->User Policies has an area that discusses hiding profile fields. I've never done it...so I'm not sure how it works or who exactly they are hidden from (only users? everyone? no idea).

10. In the user profile section you have a box "Miscellaneous" it shows blog entries etc. Can we remove this?

It only shows blog entries if blogs are enabled.  You can shut off blogs at the site level, if you want (maybe in the advanced features area?).  I'm sure you can modify profile sections but I couldn't tell you how.

11. Also the site pages keep showing up in locations. Can we make sure that these are removed everywhere?

I'm not really following.  Are you talking about a block? If you have a block on the site page that you only want on the site page, turn editing on and go to edit settings and choose the Configure option.  Change page contexts to display on front page only.  If you mean something else, please clarify.


Geez, this is long!  Hope it is helpful.

 
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Picture of Dick Coppus
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
 

Hi Melanie,

Thanks for your help! A few things I had already solved.

1. I made changes in the language packs and this works for changing text

2. I'm using the BCU theme in moodle, but it only gives me the option to place a header image on the start page. This fine. 

3. Yeah I bumped into this one also. It's now taken of. Perfect!

4. Think I solved it, but will also check the blocks. Thanks!

5. I now made thumbnails available, still need to add text. Will dive into it

6. I solved this. It was in the spot you suggested. Thanks!


7.The students should not be able to do anything with events or agenda or blog. They can only view the events but should not be able to add events themselves, same for blog etc. I did play with permissions, but couldn't solve this yet.


8. Thanks will check

9. I already told them this would not be possible. It's a free LMS to use, but you can not expect everything ofcourse  

10. WIll check it out

11. Thanks will chcek it out.

Thanks for all the help. It was a lot of text but very helpful. Thanks so much.

 
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Picture of Dick Coppus
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
 

Hi Melanie,

I almost have everything setup. One thing i still can't remove.

When I log in as a student and go to my eLearning. I have the calendar in my site navigation under Site Pages. When I click on the calendar I can add a "new event". Is it possible to hide the whole calendar and events part? Events I still see in the top navigation and also shows the calendar with the option to add a new event. 

I would love to take this out for students or at least make sure that they can not add events themselves. They can look in the calendar if they want and the admin could add events or news about release dates for new courses.

is this possible?

 
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Picture of Dick Coppus
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
 

Hi Melanie,

I have managed to fix almost everything. I learned loads during the last couple of days. Do have to say that the Moodle structure is a little bit unclear. Switching of navigation needs to be set on every page. I see so many people struggling with this. Loads of PHP customization tips, while you can also do it with settings, but you have to do it on a million locations smile


So I managed to switch off all. I hided the side navigation bar everywhere and also the top navigation is turned off.

Basically I just turned all the navigation settings on every page to "not show". This works. But for the profile pages this doesn't work. When i'm on a profile page as admin and under navigation click settings to "not show" navigation. It is hidden, but on a students page it still gets shown.

Any Idea how to solve this?

 
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Picture of Melanie Scott
Re: Captivate - Moodle & attempts
Particularly helpful Moodlers

Getting used to how Moodle structures things takes time.  I've been working with Moodle for thirteen years and I still have days when I just shrug and tell people "dunno.  'cuz it does?" when they ask why something works a particular way.

If you really don't like the nav blocks, why don't you just remove them from the default home page?  There's a lot I can manage by just poking...I'm not sure what you want it to look like...but you might put a post in a non-scorm area about specifically what you're struggling with now (I think you sound pretty squared away on SCORM).  Someone who works with dashboard stuff or themes might have more perspective.

 
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