Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

by Tony H -
Number of replies: 19

I must be missing something obvious. I see things online related to time-lapsed locking, but nothing for setting specific time as assignments have.

We have a graded discussion forum where the time for the students to post their assignments has elapsed. We want the students to view the forums, but they can no longer submit their work (that ship has sailed). If we use the 1-day inactivity setting, that does not prevent students from posting past the deadline (it could still take several days for the lock to kick in)

Question: How can we set a fixed time (such as 07-Mar at 11:59pm) to disable forum posting?

Alternative question: Where is the check-box setting to disable posting to a forum (but still allow students to view the forums)?


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In reply to Tony H

Re: Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

by Howard Miller -
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I can't think of any way to do that. The forum is not really intended as (primarily) an activity for submitting work so it doesn't have the same sort of options Assignment has. 

To answer your alternative question - there's no check box but you can override the permissions. From the Forum page, click the Settings cog and then Permissions. Make sure you have the browser window nice and wide or that page is a bit of a mess. Select 'Student' in the 'Advanced role override' drop down and then check 'Prevent' against any capabilities related to posting stuff (it's pretty obvious which) that are currently set to 'Allow'. See - Permissions

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In reply to Howard Miller

Re: Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

by Tony H -

Thanks for the reply, Howard. I will look at the permissions.

There are multiple ways to use the features to accomplish the same things. Some work better than others based on the desired outcomes. Let me clarify the assignment. We are talking about user experiences in human-computer interaction. The students were supposed to post a picture to the forum before our lecture so we could discuss it during class time. I wanted to minimize the duplication of pictures. Furthermore, I wanted the students to see all of the other pictures of user experiences. Based on the assignment, I figured that a forum was an easy way to accomplish it. The students get credit for posting a picture to the forum. If I did an assignment submission, I would have to dig everything out of the submission box, and the put them in a presentation to display. Because they were in the forum, I could simply open up the forum during class. However, students are still trying to get credit because they can post to the forum even though the class disucssion has come and gone...

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In reply to Tony H

Re: Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

by Howard Miller -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers

It sounds reasonable. It's only a few clicks to disable posting using the Permissions once you have the idea. I can't think of any way to do it automatically though. 

I'm sure others will be along soon with different ideas big grin

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In reply to Tony H

Re: Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

by Mary Cooch -
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You could use a database activity where they are allowed to only make one entry?

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In reply to Mary Cooch

Re: Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

by Tony H -

Thanks, Mary! I'll have to look at the database activity next time.

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In reply to Tony H

Re: Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

by Floyd Saner -

Tony,

You could use a Glossary activity - students can post text and pictures for everyone to see. When you want to close the activity and prevent further submissions, just change the Approved by Default setting to No.  Students will still see everything prior to the change in approval setting, but if they submit any new posts, they will not show.


Floyd

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In reply to Floyd Saner

Re: Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

by Tony H -

Floyd, thanks for the suggestion. With the glossary, it is not clear who posted what and when. There are positives and negatives to that. I do like the single-page view with the glossary, which minimizes the back and forth clicking.

I'm surprised at the complexity of this issue. From my experience of using forums (both as a user and as an admin), forum software includes the ability to prevent users from posting to a specific forum. Moodle has way, but it seems hackish since you have to change the permissions on another part of Moodle to override the default settings. Following typical forum implementations, it seems logical that every forum should have a restrictive method, such as a drop-down menu with the minimum permissions required to post. Or, only users of specific permissions levels could post. For example, this list would include teachers, teacher-aids, students, guests, etc.. Students or guests could post for a specific period, and then the teacher-aid could add follow-up comments, and then open up the forum once again for discussion.

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In reply to Tony H

Re: Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

I recall seeing discussions about this issue, closing discussion forums, over the last several years.  I know  that I have had discussions about Forum dates (see MDL-31355, and vote for it.)  And I can appreciate Howard's comment that "forum is not really intended as (primarily) an activity for submitting work" but I don't agree because, in practice, many instructors use them for this purpose.  I have been using forums forever as an assigned activity, just like a quiz or assignment, and I don't think that I am alone in this approach.

However, I am also one who doesn't think forums should be closed, although I do see that many would want to do this.  I like to encourage my student to always post ideas, even if a topic has expired. Realistically, students seldom do this because they are too busy posting in un-due discussions where they can get "points."

I do like using the Ratings "To" date as a way of letting me know that a student's post was late.  In this manner, I am not allowed to rate a post after this date.  Yep, I find this uniquely helpful.

So an Availability or Timing block with the following could be an approach:

Open the Forum (date when posts can begin, and rating can begin)

Due Date (date when the forum posts are due, this goes into the calendar)

Rating Date (the date when forum rating expires)

Close Date (the date when no more posts can be made, what you describe as "lock" date)

The "Restrict ratings to items with dates between Open and Rating dates" can still be there.

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In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

by Howard Miller -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers

Just for clarity... I wasn't commenting on how it should or should not be used (it's not my "thing" anyway - I'm not an end user of Moodle) but I suspect that wasn't what was in the mind of the designers/maintainers of forum. 

I can't help thinking that these activities should (ideally) be more consistent. It wouldn't be a bad option to have. On the other hand, the more options the more room for confusion.

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In reply to Howard Miller

Re: Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

by Rick Jerz -
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Actually Howard, at one point last year, there was a MUG suggestion to looks at "dates" across all activities, making them consistent.  Someday I need to return to this suggestion.

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In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

by Tony H -

Rick, you make an excellent point. Software should be neutral, per say. Instructional design should dictate how one uses the software for learning, not vice versa. I've used other LMSs that have date-locking for forums. So, I was surprised to find this missing in Moodle. Being locked out is an excellent motivator for students! smile There are situations for leaving forums open past the official submission date and circumstances that warrant locking it down based on the design of the instructions.

Thanks for the note on using the Ratings "To". I'll have to explore that option.

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In reply to Tony H

Re: Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

Tony, make sure to vote for  MDL-31355, and add some of your own desires.

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In reply to Tony H

Re: Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

Tony, I saw your post in the Tracker item.  Thanks.

For me, it seems so simple.  Moodle's forum tool is the best tool to use to require discussion and to grade them.  It needs a little more help with due dates and calendar dates.

If you have access to the Moodle Users Group website, consider reading some information that Ed Beck posted about how his school uses various moodle activities.  He states some statistics, which I will show below.  The point is that the Forum Activities is one of the most used Activity features in Moodle, so it should be getting a lot of attention for improvement.

(From Ed Beck)

I said that I think Moodle needs it's user association to focus on the main features that we use everyday.

I shared that on my Moodle server, we have:

  • Around 25,000 Forum activities
  • Around 20,000 Assignment activities
  • Around 10,000 Quiz activities

Below that it drops off very quickly:

  • 1285 External tools
  • 1652 Choice
  • 340 Journals
  • 181 Wikis
  • 103 Questionaires
  • 97 Scorm
  • 83 Glossaries
  • 16 Workshops
  • 3 Surveys

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In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

by Tony H -

Rick, thanks for the link to the Moodle Users Association. I'll check it out. The order of features is consistent with what we see. The only reason I am using Choice so students can join a group project. Since I teach ICT, I'm having them put their projects on a wiki for the exposure to the tool. We have a class glossary, but participation is optional (If the option were there, I would populate the glossary entries from an open dictionary dynamically).

Forums are a go-to option elearning. They are a versatile tool, which lends to their usefulness. For example, I would rather have my students put their links to the online presentations, portfolios, etc. in a graded forum rather than using a traditional assignment activity (a public assignment submission area, if you will). I know this is a methodology perspective. Forums are simple to use and familiar. They could be even more advantageous without diminishing the primary forum feature of discussions, such as adding a due-date option. In reality, many educators are using forums in this manner anyhow. However, they have to find hackish ways of accomplishing it, such as the methods listed in this discussion.

 I wholeheartedly agree with your statement and sentiment in that the Forum Activities is one of the most used Activity features in Moodle, so it should be getting a lot of attention for improvement.

Many thanks for the support. smile

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In reply to Tony H

Re: Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

by Hartmut Scherer -

Tony, I do this every week in my online classes. You can set a fixed time to disable forum posting with restrict access to the forum module.  Set "Date until specific time" and the activity (not the individual discussions) will still be visible. In the description, I tell my students when the forum will close because the restriction is not visible or indicated to the students.

After the due date, I change the permission (see Howard's explanation above) so that they can see all discussions but no longer post or start a new discussion.

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In reply to Hartmut Scherer

Re: Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

by Tony H -

Thanks, Hartmut! I'll try that for next time.

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In reply to Hartmut Scherer

Re: Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

Interesting approach, Hartmut.

Quite honestly, I couldn't find where one sets "Date until specific time" setting.  Exactly where is this setting?  I did review what Howard said, and I still didn't see it.  Could you provide a screenshot?

Well, changing permissions back and forth seems that it might provide a solution, but this is a somewhat awkward solution.  Wouldn't you agree that it would be much simpler if the forum just provided a "Close forum after date" setting?  Actually, there have been times in the past where I changed permissions on a block that was showing incorrectly.  I tend to only visit permissions, and adjust them only when it is really needed, and I tend to think of permissions as somewhat "global settings" that I only change once.  I have never viewed them as something that I would use on an activity-by-activity basis.  But you seem to have found a solution that works for you, Hartmut, and it shows some creative ways to use Moodle.

Also, it appears that this "permissions" approach might mean that when you re-offer the course, that it is something that one needs to remember to always adjust.  Well, maybe so.

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In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

by Hartmut Scherer -

Hi Rick,

When you are on the "Edit settings" page of a forum, scroll down to Restrict access. You should see something like this:

Forum - Edit settings












On the main course page, teachers will see this. As mentioned above, I add the restriction in the description of the forum.

Main course page - Forum with restrictions





I admit that this is not a straightforward approach but I do not mind the extra work. At the top of the main class page, I keep a file with all changes for teachers who want to use this course.

Years ago I was fascinated by ForumNG, developed by the Open University in England. I had hoped ForumNG will become a core module. Only some features made it. If you don't need the latest version of Moodle, ForumNG (most or all the time one Moodle version behind) has the feature that you are looking for. In Edit settings, you can limit posts by date.

ForumNG Edit settings - limit posts














With kind regards,

Hartmut

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In reply to Hartmut Scherer

Re: Discussion locking based on a specific time (Moodle 3.4)

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

Yep, I forgot about ForumNG.

Quite honestly, I don't think Moodle developers are necessarily ignoring forums and improvements, I really believe that this particular activity is a bit complex and is just taking a lot of effort to make improvements.  For example, my feature request to add a calendar date was worked on, progressed, and then stopped.  My guess is that it stopped because of the many connections where dates get used.  There was probably some unanticipated problem that was encountered.

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