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Do you need 150 IQ to add a file to a page?

 
Fra Par
Do you need 150 IQ to add a file to a page?
 

Hi,


I just tried to add an image and a pdf file inside a page activity... REALLY?


Am I the only one here to find this process bewilderingly complex for just an attachment?


Can someone point me to the tracker "please ô please, simplify the adding of files in pages"?


Cheers

François
Moodle 3.3










 
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Mary Cooch
Re: Do you need 150 IQ to add a file to a page?
Documentation writersMoodle Course Creator Certificate holdersMoodle HQParticularly helpful MoodlersTestersTranslators

If you use the Atto editor, you just drag and drop the image file onto the page.

 
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Fra Par
Re: Do you need 150 IQ to add a file to a page?
 

Hi Mary,


Indeed Mary, it works fine for an image... but adding a pdf file is just impossible!!!:


- one window to drag and drop a file... and nothing happens

No button to click "add the file"!

A big button "refresh" .... which just does that, reflresh, and nothing happens

- and then two windows (if you are lucky to find the correct buttons, otherwise it is more like 4 or 5 tries) to add the link


From the thousands of people who add a file each day in a page, how many do you think want it hidden?

Where can I put a tracker asking for a default behavior: create a linked text with the current name of the file? People who really want the file hidden can erase the link, but most of the people just want the link!

Cheers

François






 
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Picture of Dave Balch
Re: Do you need 150 IQ to add a file to a page?
Core developersParticularly helpful MoodlersPlugin developers

Hi François,

I think the simplest way to add a PDF to a page is:

  1. Click Atto's "Manage files" icon,
  2. Drag the file into the dialog, then close it,
  3. Select the text to be linked, and click Atto's "Link" icon,
  4. Browse the repo and select the file.

This may seem like a lot of steps, but they're quick, and this complexity allows Moodle to support many different use-cases. (Which isn't to say it couldn't be improved.)


> Where can I put a tracker asking for a default behavior

https://tracker.moodle.org/


> but most of the people just want the link!

The flaw in having this as a default behaviour is that it encourages bad practice - a hard to read URL, rather than something telling the user what they'll get by clicking on the link.

HTH,

Dave.


 
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Fra Par
Re: Do you need 150 IQ to add a file to a page?
 

Hi Dave,

Thank you so much for taking time to answer. This is really kind.

(though I haven't found the "page" component in jira, which leaves me only here to propose changes)


I think that adding a file in a page should follow the same logic as the course page instead of breaking into a complete different behavior:

  1. icon with paper clip
  2. drag file(s)
  3. click an OK button at the bottom of the window to validate, which will close the window
  • put the refresh button in a serie: refresh - cancel - Ok
Result: a text link appears in atto editor, with the NAME.EXT of the file (which can be erased)
  • (the link points to url, but the text is always the name of the file by default)


I am really confused (and my staff too) by the :

  • succession of opening closing opening closing actions,
  • multiple directions for the button to click:  up, right, down, right, down
  • various shapes and types of buttons and tabs to click (or avoid)


Hope I finally find the right place to send a tracker...

Cheers


François













 
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Picture of Dave Balch
Re: Do you need 150 IQ to add a file to a page?
Core developersParticularly helpful MoodlersPlugin developers

Hi François,

I think that the component would be "HTML Editor (Atto)". (Or possibly "Filepicker". It's fine to make your best guess about the component - it will be changed later if necessary).

I could imagine an improvement where a PDF (or any other allowed file type) could be dragged & dropped into the editor, which would upload the file (per current behaviour) and also show a dialog box prompting for decent link text.

Cheers,
Dave.

 
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Fra Par
Re: Do you need 150 IQ to add a file to a page?
 

Hi Dave,


Thanks again for your answer about the tracker. I am trying to formulate my propositions at Atto's.

This is very kind of you to point me in the right direction.


It might make Mary Evans laugh a bit, but I discovered that Microsoft in its Sharepoint tool, uses almost exactly the same (unsatisfying) procedure as Moodle. I really think I might make a Post in Medium about it.


In an earlier post you mentioned accessibility. There was something that made me disagree but I couldn't really point it out. If you allow me I will give it a try.


At the stage we are talking about, the user is not the student. The user trying to put a file in a page is the teacher.

So our concern should be about accessibility for teachers. How can a staff member with visual impairment upload a file with this complex process? I am not a specialist of vocal browser, but I guess that opening 3 or 4 different windows, with tens of buttons to be spelled aloud make this task a real challenge.

Actually, without impairment, I needed a map to do it. Which means that convincing the staff to use the tool is everyday a challenge when there is change resistance.

Of course, in a second stage, comes the important matter of accessibility for students, which indeed requires an understandable name or title for the link.


Again Dave, I really appreciate the time you took to answer and your fine suggestions.

Sincerely

François

 
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Fra Par
Re: Do you need 150 IQ to add a file to a page?
 
Hi

When a student with disability can learn with us but cannot be employed by us as a teacher, we might have a hint that our system is flawed.

Accessibility guidelines should be set for designers on both parts of their development process: page OUTPUT for students and page CREATION (INPUT) for teachers.

I don't believe that it is OK to let ATTO be uneasy, maybe inaccessible, just for the reason that OUTPUT should be accessible. I am glad to see that Mary Cook and Dave tend to agree with me on encouraging initiative to make it easier, simpler.

My belief is that adaptation of the process is anyway in the direction of simplification of the web and mobile.

François
 
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Just wondering . . .
Re: Do you need 150 IQ to add a file to a page?
Particularly helpful Moodlers

Francois, (or anyone) can I get you to compare the difference in drag and drop PDF between Page and Label using Atto.

For me: Page does not work (as you have said) but Label does and I do it all the time.

The our tracker becomes: "Make page work like label"

-Derek


 
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Fra Par
Re: Do you need 150 IQ to add a file to a page?
 

Hi Derek,


My try on Boost with Moodle 3.3 didn't work. I had the same behavior in a Label as in a Page.

Can you describe what you meant, i am very curious, especially if the solution was just stop using page and use Labels instead!

Cheers

François

 
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Fra Par
Re: Do you need 150 IQ to add a file to a page?
 

Hi Dave,

thanks for contributing to the tracker.

It seems that would prevent the multi-upload.

I was more hoping a feature very similar to the "additional files" in assignment where you drop the files and end up with links from file names (although file names can be changed from inside the "upload box")

Hope this helps

François

 
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math
Re: Do you need 150 IQ to add a file to a page?
 

François,

If this helps, the process of adding images and files to a Page seems to me to be similar to that in most work processors - drag an image onto the page, and create a link to a file.

To create a link to a file:

  • Select some text
  • Click the “Link” icon
  • Select "Browse repositories"
  • Use the File Picker to browse/select/upload file
  • Save

This gives a hyperlink (using text of my choosing) to an embedded file.

Thanks,

David



 
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Fra Par
Re: Do you need 150 IQ to add a file to a page?
 

Hi David,


Thank you for your description of the process. Indeed that's the way to do it for now.

Nevertheless, I consider it very counter intuitive.

How many times do you upload a file without creating a link?

If most of the time people upload a file (a pdf, or a docx) and want the link, why doesn't the software do it for us from the first step?

Vote for the tracker

Regards

François


 
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Fra Par
Re: Do you need 150 IQ to add a file to a page?
 

Hi Mary,


(apology for misspelling your name in a previous post)

I created a tracker for this:

https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-60117


Regards

François

 
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Picture of Howard Miller
Re: Do you need 150 IQ to add a file to a page?
Core developersDocumentation writersParticularly helpful MoodlersPlugin developers

....or you can just turn editing on and drag files (and images) onto the course page if you don't need anything more complex than that.

 
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