Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Annali Nicolaou -
Number of replies: 22

Hi,

I am running the following:

Moodle version 3.3

DO tell us the name and version of the theme: no theme selected yet

 

I am just starting to develop a new Moodle LMS environment. I need to determine which Moodle 3.3 theme is the most stable and supported. I need a theme that has very good customization and is fluid.

 

So far (after installing and testing) it looks like the Adaptable version 1.5 and Fordon version 1.5.6 will be the most promising solutions?

With my previous installation of Moodle, I chose a theme that stopped being supported, and I would like to avoid that at all cost.

 

Please could you advise a good theme, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

Kind Regards,

Annali

 

(Edited by Mary Evans - corrected spelling in title - table -> stable - original submission Monday, 7 August 2017, 10:19 AM)

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Annali Nicolaou

Re: Suggestions for most table and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Mary Evans -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers

Hi,

The Adaptable theme is based on Bootstrapbase which could be depreciated in Moodle 4.0

Fordson is based on Boost which is the current theme in Moodle 3.0+

That said, Moodle may change its design  and depreciate Boost theme, so you are talking about 2 to 3 years form now both those themes could be obsolete and therefore not supported..

Hope this helps?

Mary

In reply to Mary Evans

Re: Suggestions for most table and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Annali Nicolaou -

Thank you for this information Mary!


Which theme would you suggest to use then?


Thanks so much

In reply to Annali Nicolaou

Re: Suggestions for most table and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Mary Evans -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers

Fordson because it is using latest Moodle Boost theme as parent and has some fantastic settings.

Cheers

Mary

In reply to Annali Nicolaou

Re: Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Fernando Acedo -
Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers

I can only speak for Adaptable not for other themes.

Adaptable has its own release cycle of 3 months with a minor version every six months (when moodle release also a new version). In the meantime, we can release emergency patches to fix bugs.

So I can't ensure that Adaptable will have support for life but we are improving to provide the best and no plans to stop development or support. All the opposite. We have already scheduled two versions in the forthcoming months and will improve technical support soon through our website.

Notice that Boost is based in Bootstrap 4 that is still (after a long delay of more 6 months) in Alpha version. It means that is not stable (need to move to Beta first and then published) and can have many changes in the future.

In my opinion, and other theme developers as well, moodle made a big mistake using BS4 for Boost and switching from Clean to Boost as a default theme. Actually nobody knows a date of a stable release of BS4, and therefore Boost, and all the themes based on it could have serious problems in the future due the changes applied lately.

On the other hand, I don't think moodle will remove BoostrapBase (based in BS2) when release moodle 4. But in any case, Adaptable will provide always a copy of BoostrapBase if moodle remove it.

And if BS4 gets stable some day, we will try to move Adaptable to it.

Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Fernando Acedo

Re: Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Mary Evans -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers

True, Fernando, however, Moodle stopped updating Base theme a year before it was depreciated. So who can vouch for BootstrapBase being updated in the future?

One good thing I like about Boost is that whilst it uses Bootstap 4(Alpha) users can add Bootstrap 2.3.1 markup in the Text Editors and it works, making Boost a muti-functional theme

Cheers

Mary,

Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Fernando Acedo

Re: Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Derek Chirnside -

Fernando, I'm aware of some of the discussion around BS4 (etc)

We are using Boost/Fordson in some of the categories in our Moodle and will go Fordson for our whole soon.  We were on Flexibase.

We have discovered lots of CSS problems with Boost.  Needing to add space, fix an overlap, resize an element, style a button, fix problems with different devices etc.  I am always surprised at these; surely this is a simple fix for someone who knows a bit about CSS - or maybe those who are using Boost are slight risk takers and when they find problems just fix them on their own servers, and they are not getting into the tracker.

But so far, nothing that has turned up that is Bootstrap 4 related and a showstopper.  I've had a look at articles like this: https://medium.com/wdstack/bootstrap-4-whats-new-visual-guide-c84dd81d8387  I am not a coder, and I'm only really basic when it comes to CSS.

Maybe the coding in Fordson is insulating us from things that are real issues.  Maybe in the future BS4 final will come out and cause some problems for Boost as you suggest.  Maybe I'm only using a small subset of functionality and if we tried to push it Boost would come up lacking.  BS4 may not be finished yet, but it seems stable enough to be usable.  Again, a non-expert opinion.

At present we are not unhappy with Boost + Fordson.  

-Derek

In reply to Derek Chirnside

Re: Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

To get a feel for some of the CSS modifications that I made to my boost, one can visit my webpage that I created to support my MoodleMoot presentation on this topic.  (Making Boost do More)

In reply to Derek Chirnside

Re: Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Fernando Acedo -
Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers

Derek, BS4 when published will be very different from the version used by moodle.

Many are related to the grid (has been changed), colours management, elements and probably are part of the issues you fixed.

The future is really dark. Will we have a BS4 version? Yes, of course but nobody knows when.

Just read this Github issue (with links to other issues already closed quickly by the team) to understand the situation: https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap/issues/23237

Many developers are in the same moodle situation. They started projects with BS4 Alpha and still waiting a Beta while developers are still fixing issues and adding some features. I don't expect a stable version at least until next year (that means more 1 year of delay)

That's the reason to don't use BS4 as a base for a theme. Moodle can keep the existing Alpha version as a base (and patching issues) but if you are fixing the issues then means you are using an unstable version. And a moodle theme can't be based in an unstable version.

From my point of view, Boost (and child themes) can be used to investigate, for testing and create future themes, but never for production sites.

 

 

 

 

Average of ratings: Useful (2)
In reply to Fernando Acedo

Re: Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Derek Chirnside -

Very helpful comment Fernando.  Tx.

I understand a little more each week about the complexities of these issues.

Edit: To add some weight to your comments, look at this comment which I found on GIT today.  https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap/issues/23237  "I bet on BS and you guys are not talking to me"  Interesting.

-Derek

In reply to Fernando Acedo

Re: Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Gareth J Barnard -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers

Interesting Fernando,

What has always made me wonder is why Boost is BS4 alpha.  I believe that all of the functionality could have been achieved in BS2.3.2 or BS3 which are both stable.  Is SASS better than LESS though?

To me the word 'alpha' means 'in development with the potential for lots of bugs and change', 'beta' is 'we know the direction that things are going, should not be major changes but could be lots of bugs', 'release candidate' is 'almost there but might contain bugs' and finally 'stable' is 'we're happy with the way things are and there should not be major or minor bugs'.  Thus 'alpha' is 'development server only', 'beta' is 'use on production server(s) if you want to take the risk', ditto for 'release candidate' and 'stable' - 'use on production servers(s) after testing on a test server and you're happy'.

There is cutting edge and there is falling off a cliff.

Any thoughts anybody please?

Gareth

In reply to Gareth J Barnard

Re: Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Emma Richardson -
Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers

Hmm, interesting conversation.  As a fairly adept admin of Moodle sites but without the development or coding skills, all I can add is that Boost and Fordson are working for me and I am happy with them despite some minor Boost bugs.  I however have yet to find a theme that has been released bug free, including Elegance and Adaptable (and probably Essential but I have not used that theme!)  The Adaptable team have done an amazing job but there have still been some fairly serious bugs along the journey.  So I guess if HQ was successful in making an alpha release work, then I am not so concerned that they are using an alpha release.  Yes, I would feel much better if it were more stable but, as yet, I have found Boost and Fordson to be fairly "stable" and any oddities I have found so far, I have been able to fix with css.

That being said, originally, when there was a discussion about the release of Boost, I, for one, had suggested that it NOT be the default theme but HQ went ahead anyway.  I am still of the opinion that that was maybe not the best move but it has also put the pressure on HQ to make it work in a stable fashion so maybe it was not so bad after all!

In reply to Emma Richardson

Re: Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Rick Jerz -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

I'm with you Emma, no coding but been running Boost for several months without any problem at all.

Boost provides more than just a new "nav drawer," and I tend to like how it looks, given my CSS changes.  When I switched to Boost near the end of my Spring semester, I got the best vote of confidence from my students as no one said anything.

Since Boost was the default with 3.2, I just assumed that it was as solid as any other core theme (meaning Clean and More.)  Yep, initially, it was kind of strange in that bad CSS could break the overall appearance, but I think that has been fixed.  I like the way Boost behaves on a smartphone, too.

In reply to Rick Jerz

Re: Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Fernando Acedo -
Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers

Boost is solid when used with an Alpha version.

What will happens when BS4 release a stable version with hundred of bugs fixed and changes?

Let's see.

In reply to Emma Richardson

Re: Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Fernando Acedo -
Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers

Again I can only speak for Adaptable.

Adaptable has more 400 settings, more 800 strings to translate (ask translators how long takes to translate Adaptable) and almost 24000 lines of code.

it means that Adaptable is one of the most complex moodle extensions (probably the most). So it is very normal to have bugs and especially when there are thousand of different combinations due to number of settings.

But it is based in a solid BS2. You forget about problems with the framework. So when a bug rise, you can focus only in the theme and forget about BS2. For developers and support team this is a good start when troubleshooting.

I can't say the same with BS4 based themes.

 

In reply to Gareth J Barnard

Re: Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Richard Oelmann -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers

The thread linked to above in the Bootstrap github does suggest that the only reason they haven't released it as Beta at the moment is time. They have said, again in that thread, that there wont be an Alpha7, that they are all but ready to release Beta - although I'm not going to hold my breath given how long A6 has been there already!

I'm not sure why that would be - it doesn't seem to me to take a lot of time to declare something as Beta if it is, in practice, at that point. There are a small number of changes still going through their processes, but not a great number. I think the biggest changes have already happened (the most significant one in the alpha series, rather than between 3 and 4, was probably turning on flexbox by default as part of the grid system).

I'm hoping that HQ are monitoring what is changing and looking to update Boost when the Beta is released as it is currently still built on Alpha4, so there is some work to do already. (In fairness, I don't think anyone expected Bootstrap4 to still be in Alpha at this stage when the original decision was taken)


I would agree with Fernando to some extent - Alpha code is not suitable to be used in production and probably should not have been used to create a new default theme, that is Boost is great and a much needed development, it should probably have been an optional theme for now. BUT it isn't and HQ have gone down that road and with BS4 being downloaded and included as part of that Boost theme, it is at this stage upto HQ to ensure that Boost is NOT alpha standard code. Child themes are then built on Boost, rather than directly on BS4, giving a slight cushion.

Given that Boost has been released as the default theme, and with the assumption that if anyone does find significant bugs, then HQ would need to fix those in Moodle, pending any upstream fix in BS, then I have been happy to create child themes for Boost and to work within that framework and push it forward. I do so on the assumption that the heavy lifting of updating Boost to Bootstrap4 Beta and final will be part of the ongoing process by HQ.

I do, though, always caution people about the current nature of BS4 - and with full realisation myself that Beta/final changes could involve additional work in those child themes. And I think that is the key - if you accept Boost and Boostrap4 for what they are, and acknowledge the fact that there is a potential overhead when BS4 moves from alpha, then I don't personally have a problem with it (I've never had any issues of it crashing or being unstable, just feature developments), BUT that does mean it isn't necessarily suitable for many institutions who want to be able to buy/commission/create a theme and mainly leave it alone for a couple of years for stability.

So far, I've kept Waxed and Handlebar relatively small and manageable within that kind of overhead - I believe even if there are significant changes that I can update them fairly quickly. I, personally, would not even attempt to migrate a theme like my Flexibase, or something like Adaptable or Essential across to Boost/BS4 until all that overhead is known and quantifiable (eg probably a late beta or RC version).

From my point of view: Boost (and its child themes) are stable (they wont break your system), even though the upstream BS4 library is alpha. But they come with a potential development overhead that needs to be considered and which could be significant.

Gareth - re SASS/LESS. I personally find SASS better/easier, but that's possibly because I did a couple of projects with it before switching to LESS to use with Moodle when we adopted BS in the first place. There's probably not really that much difference between the two in practice (although the inline SASS compiler HQ have used seems to be dreadful - slow and at least one major bug, as you detailed, around the @import url function)


In reply to Richard Oelmann

Re: Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Matteo Scaramuccia -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers
In reply to Matteo Scaramuccia

Re: Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Fernando Acedo -
Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers

They closed today more one hundred issues in the tracker. The version released is 4.0.0 and I don't think that they will move to RC or a stable version from here. I expect more than one Beta version.

 

 

In reply to Annali Nicolaou

Re: Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Emma Richardson -
Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers

I have used both themes.  It really comes down to your personal preference.  The Adaptable theme has provided about the best support of any theme I have seen and that was a big help when I was using the theme.  I actually moved to Fordson on one site a couple of weeks ago.  The developer has been around the Moodle forums for some time and is very responsive.  

Both themes are well supported.  The comments below might help you make a decision but you ultimately need to pick the theme that you think will benefit your site best.  

In reply to Annali Nicolaou

Re: Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Jez H -

Hi Annali,

I am biased as I help maintain adaptable but I would hope Adaptable will continue to be supported. It is used on over 6000 sites and has a life of its own as it were, we have already discussed having to re-base the theme on Boost if that becomes necessary, though I am hoping Moodle will maintain Bootstrap Base in some form.

Fordson looks really nice as all the themes produced by Chris are but I think his approach is different in that he seems to release new themes periodically and drop support for older ones, not an issue if you like the new ones and are prepared to switch over to those.


In reply to Jez H

Re: Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Emma Richardson -
Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers

Like BCU????  big grin . Just kidding - you guys do an amazing job with Adaptable!

In reply to Annali Nicolaou

Re: Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Richard Oelmann -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers

I'd have to add Gareth's Essential theme into the mix for your thinking.

If you want a theme (and developer) with a proven track record of usage and ongoing support you wont find much better.

It is, like Adaptable, based on bootstrapbase - that may well (will) get deprecated at some point, but that is not announced yet, and even then is likely to get retired to the plugins database initially, so likely to be "good" for at least the next couple of years.

Fordson, as Fernando points out, is based on Boost and its Bootstrap 4, which is currently still an alpha upstream library - but if the choice is between BS2 and BS4 (There are some BS3 themes available with Bas' bootstrap theme as a parent, but that was never core so has its own issues in that particular regard), then my personal choice would be to go with a Boost/BS4 theme - HQ will need to do whatever development is required to bring it into line with BS4Beta when released and BS4final eventually, but any theme will need to develop alongside that. And yes, I have had (and still have) reservations about jumping to BS4/Boost as the default theme for Moodle - but not so much about using it as a theme to develop against, given that the theme developer (and the admins of the sites using such themes) are aware of the nature of the ongoing developments.

If you want a simpler, less feature rich Boost theme as a base for customising your own, then Waxed and Handlebar may be worth a look (but they are mine, so I would say that :D). To me Fordson is far and away the best of the bunch in terms of its feature set when looking at Boost based themes, while Essential and Adaptable (again personal opinions) offer different choices of features, depending on your requirements, and are 'best of breed' bootstrap2 themes - both with strong developers behind them.


Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Annali Nicolaou

Re: Suggestions for most stable and supported theme for Moodle 3.3

by Chris Kenniburg -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers

Any of the themes mentioned in this post will display your learning content and do so with style and flair.  

I'm partial to Fordson as we think it fits our needs (and we built it).  We write our themes and use them with K-12 teachers and students in a diverse 18,000+ student learning environment.  We have a focus on user experience and what/where the user is supposed to go once they authenticate. 

Since Moodle switched to Boost as a core theme and how they want Moodle to operate, we decided to follow suit with the release of the child theme Fordson.  With the Fordson theme we are attempting to stay as close to core Boost as possible by adding in options and enhancements.

While there can be lots of debate if using alpha Bootstrap is proper, there is no debate in moving forward.  I suspect if Moodle made the jump away from Bootstrap 2 then the only progression is forward. I am betting on moving forward with the new core theme and that is why we took what we learned building Evolve-D and Pioneer to build Fordson for Moodle 3.2+.

I don't get too involved in all the technical underpinnings because we really loved the simplicity and overall design of Boost.  It works.  It functions properly for everything we use.  It is a great design for focusing on learning content and activities.