Remote-Learner US no longer a Moodle partner?

Re: Remote-Learner US no longer a Moodle partner?

by Mike Churchward -
Number of replies: 3
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Derek -

Thanks for your (always) informative and thoughtful response. I have been watching this thread, but stayed out since when I respond to topics about Remote-Learner, it seems to bring out the hyenas and trolls. wink

Answering the question about why we pulled out of the UK, I would direct you to our official post. Without going into details, it was strictly a business decision. We want to keep focused on activities that are very important to our business.

With respect to our decision to leave the Moodle Partner program, your post has hit the nail on the head. We place a lot of importance on Moodle and intend to help ensure that Moodle remains the top LMS in the world. Moodle is receiving a lot of pressure from other players, and we want to be in a position to help deal with that pressure. In order to do that, we need to have influence on Moodle’s roadmap and features, and help execute that roadmap.

We want to direct our resources (financial, technical and promotional) towards showing that Moodle is the modern solution, and then doing whatever work is needed to present that to our markets. As you noted, funding the Moodle Association will be one avenue. The POET group that we just recently helped create will be another. And our own business will be yet another.

We have not walked away from Moodle - far from it. And we do not want to create a fork of Moodle (to Howard’s point). Rather, we want to continue to engage with the community and be more active in Moodle’s developmental activities. We will continue to provide and support plugin development, core code support through bug fixes and performance improvements as well as contributing to new feature definition, design and development.

I welcome the discussion in person, and virtual. And, yes, if you are around the Minnesota Moot, please come find me. I am always glad to talk.

Mike

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In reply to Mike Churchward

Re: Remote-Learner US no longer a Moodle partner?

by Martin Dougiamas -
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I need to respond to this kind of spin you're making here and elsewhere, Mike.  I'm truly surprised to see this stuff coming from you.


You've thrown away a cake and now you're trying to eat it.

The reasons behind Remote Learner not being a partner are not about the roadmap or any other such nonsense.   I can't publicly go into all the real reasons why RL left, but it's clear to anyone that by not being a partner Remote Learner is now contributing even less than it might have been before.

You are currently openly flouting Moodle's business model with clear trademark infringements all over the place, at the same time claiming contributions towards Moodle that are either completely false or way overblown.  The Moodle Association is not even launched yet, and yet you're already trumpeting your membership of it - ignoring the fact that even if RL did join then it can not contribute any more than an average University can.  This POET group (if it even really exists) is something that is not even required and is clearly an attempt to try and market yourself as some kind of official partner when you are not.

Our actual Moodle partners contribute a significant 10% of their income towards Moodle core maintenance and development.   Remote Learner has decided to pay zero.

If users really want to support core Moodle they should always use a Moodle Partner.  I do not recommend that users choose Remote Learner as a service provider.

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In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Remote-Learner US no longer a Moodle partner?

by Derek Chirnside -

I'm actually traveling at the moment, with some internet sometimes.  So this is really just a placeholder post.

Contributing.  Martin, you say: "I can't publicly go into all the real reasons why RL left, but it's clear to anyone that by not being a partner Remote Learner is now contributing even less than it might have been before"

I take it you mean "Contributing to MoodleHQ" in the core pool for funding for core developers to work in the core Moodle through MoodleHQ?  I think it is possible to contribute to Moodle as a whole without being a partner.

Roadmap.  Martin, I'm not sure if you have ever read my post from August last year about the roadmap.  https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=265939  I'm probably in the minority here: the roadmap does matter to me, and even if Mike's point is not the only reason to depart from the MP programme, it is significant.  I think it is a stroke of genius to put at least some $$ and time into plugins.  It is happening with MP, HQ (eg the work to fix ATTO), independent developers (eg Generico) and local institutions.

I realise there i business confidentiality here, and probably the MP forums have run hot, but what uou say is surprising.

Association.  "ignoring the fact that even if RL did join then it can not contribute any more than an average University can" Is this true?  I've asked Samantha over here. https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=313217#p1273496  if this is true, this is a surprise to me.  I saw the Association as a conduit of funds as well and in addition to membership fees.

-----------------------------------

Again, I'll reiterate what I said above: At least one thing has remained constant: the quite remarkable coding and work behind the scenes. 

eg, the final solution coming to the @#$%^ password autofilling problem.  and I'll repeat what I see as an inevitable problem: growth.  Leading to inevitable outcomes: poor communication.  Differences of needs.  Different views on the same problem.

Politics and money remain factors. Obviously I don't know all the ins and outs that have caused the rift between RL (USA) and you.  But I'm inclined to wait a little for the outworking of this from the things that Mike has said, and trust Mike, in a diplomatic response.  MoodleINC - ie the whole ecosystem -  at present has a level of turmoil that is causing me personally a lot of time, some grief and wheelspinning.  And money via our two wonderful providers,  I have spent over 100 hours checking out Canvas for instance, and dabbled in iQualify.  But the grass is not greener.

OK, times up.

-Derek
In London.  Off real work for 10 week.


Average of ratings: Very cool (2)
In reply to Derek Chirnside

Re: Remote-Learner US no longer a Moodle partner?

by Derek Chirnside -

As I said, I've been travelling.  back now, and just catching up here.  There were probably too many words in my last post.

Contributions to Moodle: two thoughts

  1. From Martin , "I can't publicly go into all the real reasons why RL left, but it's clear to anyone that by not being a partner Remote Learner is now contributing even less than it might have been before"  
    It's not clear to me.  It seems you can contribute to Moodle if you are not a Partner.  As I said, it depends how you define "Moodle"  If RL focuses on plugins and these become available to the world, then the contribution can be beneficial to coder payer (ie RL) and public (Moodle plugin users)
    I also note the post in eLiterate last week.  I could ask "Is Moodle bigger than MoodleHQ"?

  2. I asked previously, with no response: "Can anyone give $$ to the Association, or is it JUST membership fees?"  In other words for instance can a foundation (eg Ted and Flora Hewitt) donate a gift.
    I note Martin's comment regarding RL "In any case they cannot actually even join the Moodle Association as commercial LMS service providers are not eligible"  http://mfeldstein.com/interview-with-martin-dougiamas-on-changes-to-moodle-community-this-year/ 
    I have now found the relevant line in the document:
    "Organisations whose primary function is to provide commercial LMS services (such as hosting, consulting, training, development etc) may not be members of the Moodle Association"
    I missed this.  I can't see the rationale for this.
    So I'm assuming no, you can only give membership fees.
I recall an old habit (I believe it is Jewish in origin).  If you come by money that is tainted (like made as profit from something you don't like) it can be purified by giving it to the poor.


I think I am approaching the end of my engagement in these issues around the future of Moodle and how the Moodle ecosystem is really working - or not.

They are important issues to me: can I have confidence in the Moodle ecosystem from here on out??  It's a little difficult to know at the moment.

-Derek

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