Moodle Stack OverFlow...

Moodle Stack OverFlow...

by Michael Hughes -
Number of replies: 13
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers

I had an interesting meeting with an Academic this week, who said to me the hardest part Moodle was getting questions answered or knowing where to get them answered, and he wondered if there was something like a moodle stackoverflow?

Which I thought was an interesting idea...

Whilst I think the Moodle community is generally quite open, part of me wonders whether or not the forums are actually a good way of doing questions and answers(?) and imparting knowledge.

I've had a quick read of the http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq and it would require 40 example questions to kick it off and then for some people to commit to it.

So would any one else be interested in trying to establish a Moodle StackExchange?

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In reply to Michael Hughes

Re: Moodle Stack OverFlow...

by Howard Miller -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers

Personally I think FAQs are useless for end-users. They simply do not look at them - they certainly don't look at the Moodle ones. 

However, they are useful from the point of view of people *providing* support to save some typing I suppose. 

Other than that, my immediate reaction is that there is already a Moodle support community and why would we split it up? If this needs tweaking then let's do it here. 

This is probably more a discussion for The Lounge?

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In reply to Howard Miller

Re: Moodle Stack OverFlow...

by Mary Cooch -
Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

Just moving to the Lounge...  I'd like to know what specifically your academic found he didn't get community help from fast enough?

In reply to Mary Cooch

Re: Moodle Stack OverFlow...

by Michael Hughes -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers

I do agree that FAQs are pretty useless, but I use things like Stackoverflow almost daily as a developer and I don't think that it is offering an FAQ.

I don't think he had a specific thing, but that he couldn't (maybe didn't want to) simply just ask a question (i.e. off Google) and get a specific answer.

Now, he is a Computer Science teacher (and hand-cranks haskell scripts to build his own course materials), and his reaction was that this question and answer (as opposed to Frequently Asked Questions) format that he finds on StackExchange (to which he contributes as an "expert") works well in providing answers that can be easily found and to an extent have been validated via the reputation systems that are built-in.

And I think to an extent I agree...

The Moodle forums are great for asking questions and getting the community to respond, but they do feel a bit like a walled garden, and finding questions that have already been answered is really quite difficult. 

Also there is no idea / mechanism that a question asked in the forum has been answered.

The questions are asked by actual users with real questions and it feels that it offers a much better way of handling that specific form of interaction.

It may be that I'm sticking my head above a parapet here but I thought I'd ask the question "are we using the *best* tool for the job"? smile

In terms of "tweaking" is there any realistic prospect that the Moodle forum tool is going to be updated with reputation tracking, up/down voting, subject tagging? 


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In reply to Michael Hughes

Re: Moodle Stack OverFlow...

by Howard Miller -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers

I am also a developer and, to be honest, I hate Stackoverflow. There's nothing wrong with it in principal but it seems to me to have descended into an exercise in waving egos at each other. It's also heavily over-moderated. It's not untypical of many 'geek' forums though - you know the ones, you get hell for quoting after your text rather than before and all that smile

The Moodle forums are not like that. I can be a bit terse myself but nobody is told to go away because they don't quite meet the necessary requirements and nobody complains because they didn't get a 'Useful' for their answer. Long may it continue.  

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In reply to Howard Miller

Re: Moodle Stack OverFlow...

by Robert Brenstein -
People tend to use the tools they know. Some people tend to prefer mailinglists, whereas other people tend to prefer forums. Some people tend to prefer reading FAQs, whereas others tend to prefer asking questions. The academic in questions is a programmer and apparently uses stackoverflow, so it is not so surprising that he would prefer Moodle support to use that format. While Moodle forums can be overwhelming for regular teachers, and not because of their number but because of the largely technical nature of many discussions and the overall volume of traffic, creating additional formally sanctioned support venues would probably unnecessarily fragment the community.
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In reply to Michael Hughes

Re: Moodle Stack OverFlow...

by Marcus Green -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers

"It may be that I'm sticking my head above a parapet"

Maybe, but keep doing it Michael smile

In reply to Michael Hughes

Re: Moodle Stack OverFlow...

by Just H -

Personally I would hate to see Moodle support be fractured; yes there are sites out there (including Stack Exchange) where Moodle issues are discussed/hints are given but I see no value with an official/semi official move to an external site.

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In reply to Just H

Re: Moodle Stack OverFlow...

by Gareth J Barnard -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers

Interesting concept.

Humm!

Ok, I think that the forums are fine.  Where perhaps things don't quite work is there is a long list of forums, not that they are not all needed but that it's human nature to just post in the first place that makes sense, not go any further and hope for the best.

There is additionally the steep learning curve of understanding how Moodle is constructed and therefore this knowledge leads to knowing what forum to post in.  This is when things become scary for beginners.  Whilst to experienced Moodlers like myself everything looks fine, but we do forget how it must appear to somebody for the first time.  This is can be compounded as evolution takes place and regular Moodlers adapt but don't see how it looks when you've not seen it before.

As there is forums, then guides / FAQ's are not so useful, for example at the top of the 'Courses and course formats' forum (https://moodle.org/mod/forum/view.php?id=47) I created a 'help' guide, but I know from the posts that this has not been read.  We are humans, when we have a problem we ask a human first before turning to a guide.  Forums are orchestrated by humans and thus are the first port of call.

This then leads to the question "How can we make things better and more friendly for new Moodlers?".  Perhaps the answer to this would be another forum!  But that that forum should be called 'New Moodlers' - a place to ask questions when you're not sure of where your question is best answered.  Such as 'I have a problem with Essential, where should I post?', which the answer will be 'the Themes forum'.

Often when I go off to the 'General help' forum there is a question about Essential or Collapsed Topics that I could have answered in a matter of minutes but because it was in that forum I missed it as I only frequent that forum every now and then.  But because I'm a moderator of the 'Course and course formats' and 'Themes' forums I read them several times a day.  As a consequence several people with the best of intent have attempted to answer the question correctly but have struggled.

There is also the fear of 'technical' - do do do do - scary - I'll not post there because I won't understand the answer.  Ok, some answers MUST be technical because the question requires that sort of answer as a solution.  I do see a lot of posts where the person has stated 'I'm new to Moodle please answer "non-technically"' - which in some cases is possible and in others not because its a technical answer to a technical question even though to the poster the question did not appear technical.  So, perhaps the "New Moodlers" forum could be strictly non-technical advice and when the answer does have to be technical then advice given to ask on the appropriate forum with the 'This may have a technical reply' caution warning along with 'Don't be afraid, we're here to help you, honest'.  <- my attempt at a paragraph containing the word 'technical' as many times as possible but without any technical content smile.

Just some thoughts smile

Cheers,

Gareth

In reply to Gareth J Barnard

Re: Moodle Stack OverFlow...

by Howard Miller -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers

As one of the moderators of the General forum, I do accept that a big part is moving discussions to the right place. However, on this occasion I have to confess that I didn't know the course formats Forum even existed blush

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In reply to Howard Miller

Re: Moodle Stack OverFlow...

by dawn alderson -

Hey,

I suppose there is room for thought in terms of a demarcation between technical/specialist knowledge and that of pedagogy related discussions as well as a third criteria that blends both in view of the notion as to how each of those get recognised by experts and how do the experts know when to step in or step back. A stack-ish framework/tweaked -for- within this site might help that.  I mean it appears to me there are four types of question forms across these forums, which seek the following:

1. technical/specialist knowledge

2. pedagogy/specialist-related

3. technical+pedagogy/specialist- related

4. weather questions= random mumblings ;)

Some thoughts for the future, perhaps, to include poss integration of features similar to Area 51...

a. framework something like this for each question form, to invite the community to engage on a particular level that is accessible for others:

What makes good questions?

The questions on your site say a lot about the community. To attract experts, you need a site where people are asking very interesting and challenging questions, not the basic questions found on every other Q&A site. Your goal is to make it clear that this is a professional site.

·Ask real, expert questions
We want you to capture the moment that plumbers feel when they look at Plumber Overflow and say, "Whoa! That's my kinda site!" On a site about plumbing, there are 200 easy plumbing questions, and they've all been asked 100 times on other sites. Don't suggest questions like "How do I unclog a drain?" Instead ask, "If you run 2.5 GPM through 50 feet of 1/2" galv pipe, how many psi will be lost to friction loss?" Remember, pro sites WILL attract the enthusiasts, but not the other way around!

·Ask questions that can be answered
Avoid asking questions that are subjective, argumentative, or require extended discussion. Stack Exchange does not work well with questions like "Which is the best..."

·Off-topic questions are important, too
If you have a good, useful question in mind, but aren't completely sure that it's on topic, ask it anyway; others can then discuss the subject and together determine if it is appropriate for the site. Questions that simply don't fit in the scope of the site should be closed, indicating that, while perhaps interesting, this topic is inappropriate for this site. This helps to define the very outer boundary of a site.

 

b. And, when a teacher/learner or technical practitioner Googles a question about Moodle and an 80-odd post thread shows up as the top search item.....this can be off-putting at the thought of having to wade through so much text-maybe.  I think some variation with this mechanism might help to avoid that issue (with a glossary-type index for previous questions and urls to the related thread)

 

·Vote early and often
Besides voting up and down, you can also vote to close and reopen questions.

 

c. And some tweak with this idea-the underlying premise sounds interesting:

How do I refer users?

If you invite a friend, be sure to use the special referral link in theShare Itpopup. If the user commits to the site after using your link, we'll record you as the referrer. Make sure they verify their email address, otherwise their commitment won't count.

In reply to Gareth J Barnard

Re: Moodle Stack OverFlow...

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
I go with the general opinion here that fragmeting a community is not a good thing.

That said, the Moodle community _is_ fragmented. Look at the 60 odd forums we have. Quite understandable that shifting posts is a major job. Ideally the "powers" should take serious action to remedy this rather than just organizing chitty chats, like this one: "Ideas needed: moodle.org improvements" https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=196302. Perhaps the stack is already overflowed!
In reply to Michael Hughes

Re: Moodle Stack OverFlow...

by Frankie Kam -
Picture of Plugin developers

Hi Michael

I love StackOverflow because it's like a learning eco-system with gamification built into it.  I also love the Moodle forums and the Moodle Community. So both have their own strengths. I especially love StackOverflow because of its structure of votes, and its mix of social networking look-and-feel and the more traditional onine forum. And there is a quite a fair bit of Moodle questions with responses on Stackoverflow. This particular post of mine on StackOverflow is memorable for me. 

http://goo.gl/CqSf3N

It is because I had posted a question non-constructively hoping to just receive a handout-answer, and I found by post downgraded a Negative 2 score. I ended up digging into Google and finding out the answer myself. After 2 days, I posted my answer for two reasons: (1) To upgrade my embarrassing score of -2 and (2) to share my answer with the StackOverflow community.

regards
Frankie

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