We would like students to be able to easily export things like:
If I understand things correctly, the right way to implement that in Moodle is to make the Workshop work with the Portfolio API, so we would like to do that.
(I know almost nothing about the Portfolio API, other than that it exists. If anyone knows more, and would like to flesh out how this should work, please do.)
Excellent.
I will watch all threads. Yep, may have some valuable contributions in the future, want to see how all this unravels. Can only commend the search undertaken in/for practice, which led to these outcomes.
I know almost nothing about the Portfolio API, other than that it exists.
You will not like it But yes, it's the way to go. One thing we will have to think carefully about - and have robust related settings - is the fact that in the Workshop, it's typically not only your own work you want to export and bring to your portfolio.
A lot of questions pops out. What all data about someone else's work can be exported by myself? Were the reviewers aware of the fact that their review (may be anonymous or not) can be exported out of the course scope to the author's (potentially public) portfolio? Were the authors aware of the fact that their submission (may be anonymous or not) can be exported out of the course scope to the reviewer's (potentially public) portfolio? Personal privacy. Copyright statements. Content licensing.
There are precedences though. The Forum has separate capabilities to export own post, export any post and export whole discussion. Such capabilities may or may not be enough. Let us hope we will gather enough feedback from the community here to design the whole thing in actually usable and useful way.
Hey, both
OK. Have digested the threads. All appears to sit on a shared page-how nice is that eh!
This thread, yes, I want to think about these things in more depth, if I may.
Late here. Tomorrow-I will return to these items, yes pertinent points David, and I know Tim will agree. Needs some thought.
D
What all data about someone else's work can be exported by myself?
I recently filled a bug about this in the Assignment module MDL-48727 - slightly different to the details you are getting into - but I think the (perhaps yet unwritten) rule is that only the content created by the user is the only content which should be able to be exported.
Now - take this forum post, where I quote some of your own text - I still call that my own work, even though it contains some of your content as part of the context. Can that 'rule of thumb' be applied to workshop?
yes-got you Dan...am on it. Same thinking-but solution there. Under our noses-I want to build my response so that it reads right/clearly....too tired now though. There is a poss solution for consideration, to that.
Tomorrow.
D
Dan, I understand the principle you state, but I wonder if is really workable for what teachers and learners want to use Moodle for.
MDL-48727 says a teacher should not be able to export their student's assignment responses. That seems OK.
but, are students allowed to export their completed assignment with the teachers feedback? I think they should be able to. The teacher gave that feedback to the student in the hope that the student would read it, reflect on it, and learn from it. Why shouldn't the student transfer that to their portfolio?
And, the workshop case is similar. When you are peer assessing, you are writing comments intended specifically for the student whose work you are reviewing. It makes to let those student who received those comments do things with them, more than it would to let someone take another student's forum post.
I suppose it might help if I gave an example of how the Workshop is used at the OU. It might go like this:
It is to help students prepare that last bit that we want to let students export all the comments they got.
Even in the forum case, I don't think the argument is clear. I don't think simple limitations implemented in a software package can correctly deal with all the valid use cases. Certainly Moodle cannot understand what is, or is not, appropriate citation of someone else's work in an academic context. We have to teach our students this, and let them apply their own judgement (or how else will they learn).
Here is a hypothetical example that shows perhaps we should let students judge what they should export when. (The context is a CPD course for online educators, or student in the OU's MA in online and distance education, but, as I say it is a made-up example.)
In this case, it would help teachers if they could export the entire threads they started, so they can extract examples to use in their essays.
Anyway, there certainly are attribution and privacy issues here, I just don't think we will solve them with simple rules in Moodle code.
If you want a simple rule of thumb, that errs on the safe-side, I would propose this, that goes slightly beyond 'only your own work thing'.
Users may export through Moodle's Portfolio integration
Received feedback on my own work is natural part of my portfolio IMHO. I like the idea that a feedback / assessment on the student's submissions becomes sort of part of that submission for the portfolio export purposes. The extreme case is a certificate / diploma the user receives at the end of the school / university. Noone would probably argue that the certificate was not created by the student and therefore they can't put it into their portfolio.
In the context of the workshop, this would mean (with default capability settings):
Of course, this is not meant as a solution that would actually protect the data or handle the copyright issues. But it sounds like a fair policy that could be used across the whole Moodle.
I agree with the first two, but disagree with the third. You should be able to export the feedback you gave, but probably not the submission it related to.
Of course there is the privacy/attribution issue. I suggest we export names if the workshop is no anonymous.
You should be able to export the feedback you gave, but probably not the submission it related to.
But is not it like exporting an answer without the question?
Yes, it is. But, if we are going to have restrictions on who can export what, then there will be cases where people can't export what they want to export.
OK. My aim is to blend my thoughts with those two latest responses (Tim & David).
Tim: but, are students allowed to export their completed assignment with the teachers feedback? I think they should be able to. The teacher gave that feedback to the student in the hope that the student would read it, reflect on it, and learn from it. Why shouldn't the student transfer that to their portfolio?
We know in practice students' work of a summative nature is open to scrutiny across a number of layers
1. internal verification
2. external verification
So, students are aware of those other parties who see their work.
Hang on to that thought for a minute, if you will please.
So, we have two essential items:
a) student's choices about what they wish to export
b) and what the teacher chooses to export in terms of student work
And Tim gives an example for a).
So, we are talking about privacy issues on both fronts.
Tim's rule of thumb-agree except I don't quite understand why not for this point:
oA user CANNOT export a reply to their forum post. That was a response to a whole forum, not the specific user.
David:
1.Student can export their submission together with all received peer-assessment / feedback on it (after all, the feedback was "given").
2. Student cannot export someone else's submission even if they were given access to it in the workshop.
3.Student cannot export the peer-assessment they gave to someone else's submission (In theory, they could export just the assessment but what is the point without the assessed submission being present?)
David's point 2 and 3, again why not?
I guess my questioning is based on my thoughts about a need for a mechanism that protects students' work, but not necessarily stops the work from being shared altogether via a portfolio-that could also be shared with future employers-why not? Students would get it, if they knew the purpose of the portfolio was to contain both independent and collaborative- tracked activity.
My solution for an open approach to track both formative achievements and summative attainments with feedback (whether independent or collab) would be to ensure the use of Pdf across the board for any exported item into the portfolio-whether that is done by the teacher or the learner.
hh
D
re: But, if we are going to have restrictions on who can export what, then there will be cases where people can't export what they want to export.
This makes me think about the following in terms of e-portfolio:
-Audience=Scale
-Purpose=Scale
-Focus=context-bound poss with different institutions having specific focused strategies, so for example level 1/2/3 CPD and so on.
1. Audience=teacher and student
2. Wider
1. So, the aim is for the student to engage with reflective activity, and the teacher can have an overview of progress in one place-shared with the student
2. So e-portfolio could be transferred to student blog with URL for future employers/interviews and so on
Poss ways forward:
A. Heavier constraints in the dev to restrict for 1.
B. More affordances for 2 that give the teacher the driving seat to direct what eventual categories are within the e-portfolio and at the same time gives the student ownership of the e-portfolio in having partly/fully shared the choices about what goes in and why.
