Educational gaming for Moodle.

Re: Educational gaming for Moodle.

by dawn alderson -
Number of replies: 5

Andrew, hi

this post might be off kilta....but I think worth the while.

When you say:

 1. With Tin Can, we deliberately made it so that as much of the complexity is put on the LRS as possible. To me this looks fab...I can't see a problem only nice possibilities.

2. This means that building an LRS within Moodle would be hard....I assume this is because of the OS nature of moodle-right? If not...why hard? Looking at the diagram.....those four components-the simulator -is that the tricky part?...or is it to do with the db design/functionality in moodle? 

3.  (but why bother anyway - use an existing one and plug it in!)  Not the most convenient of options if truth be told.

4. The hardest part of tracking Moodle events with Tin Can will be getting the data out of the Moodle database, not sending that data to the LRS.  Linked to 2-again I assume?

Attachment learning-data-delivered-to-LRS.png
Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to dawn alderson

Re: Educational gaming for Moodle.

by ryan sanders -
Hey Andrew Downes
  1. Tin Can ApI -> LRS (learning record store)  about all i can tell about it, is it would be good for like a "skill tree editor" in a game.
  2. overall all i see is tin can Api is passing data. there is no communication layer / protocol layer.  when i goto look at a network layer example TCP/IP it has a few layers within it.
  3. if i look at moodle. or any software tincan API relies on. as soon as a third party developer creates a new plugin, for example http://moodle.org/plugins Tin Can API just became outdated. 

in above, what am i missing, were am i not connecting the dots? 


Average of ratings: -
In reply to ryan sanders

Re: Educational gaming for Moodle.

by Andrew Downes -

Hi Ryan,

I'm afraid I don't follow at all. Can you explain a bit more of what you're saying and/or asking? 

Just to check that we're talking about the same thing, Tin Can API is this: tincanapi.com whereas TCP/IP is something completely different that's related to how the internet fundamentally works. 

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Andrew Downes

Re: Educational gaming for Moodle.

by ryan sanders -

Hey Andrew

sorry about previous post. off in my own little world. 

below links (work in progress)

i need "rules events, conditions, actions" at the tincanapi so i can pass entire set of "rules" back and forth between software.  and i need to be able to load up "custom sentence structures"  (not just pre-defined verbs).  see https://github.com/bobthecow/ruler   scroll down to "combine rules" and other logic of bobthecow/ruler in tincanapi.  i need to pull up a list of variables and there types from one software, and push them into another software, and have them load up in different rule sets (custom sentence structures).  

i need the visual programming found in scratch.mit.edu  as well as the Rules ECA (event, conditions, actions) i need to push/pull (2 way communication) between software.  so if say a monster in scratch.mit.edu dies. i need to be able, to pull up a list of monsters, with an option "unit dies" in moodle (still in research advanced editor).  these have nothing to do with pre-defined verbs, events. i need to load them up via xml,json, in the communication layer. and passing of data and logic if, then, else, foreach, dowhile stated and defined in tincanapi. i need the basic math functions, and comparison operators. as well.

if i take an "object" OOP (object oriented programming) and pass it into a JSON.  so i get say monster(health(min:50, max:100),monster_type:undead,name:codjer) from a game engine, i need tincanapi.  to pass monster type, health type, name array through xml to another software. so i can load up a different "customized sentence structure" and be able to drill down. so that i could make a statement of..  if monster("codjer") grade is between (30 and 100) then send email to student("johns") or if student(mike) dies then make a mark in gradebook(student(mike), grade(F)) ya sentence structure kinda funky in examples, but that is what i am looking for.  i am not looking for tincanapi to define verbs for me. i need to be able to make "sentence structures" for myself. and be able to send sentence structures back and forth between software. so i can see if UNIT DIES then do THIS ... if (event_type(object_type)), (condition_type), then do (action_type) in moodle. 

when i goto tincanapi.com all i am seeing is a long list of verbs that covers a lot of things. but i am not see anything of the above.  hey i get the list of verbs. and (do not remember if all i saw was just event, or just action types). i am not seeing the extra, i was hoping to see. and wondering if i am just not connecting the dots some place?  or if i am looking at something simpler. that would qualify more like a "skill tree editor" in some game. were it has more of a limited very defined structure to it. and that is structured directly to the game engine, and that structure can not be used out side of the game engine. 

my internet is on a fritz. they are working on gateway unit, is what i have been told sad  hopefully this goes through, and does not result in a double post.

Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to ryan sanders

Re: Educational gaming for Moodle.

by ryan sanders -
adding another example to my last post.


if say www.wikipedia.org inserted some <xml>  into there website. that denoted (rules ECA).  so that a teacher, could pull link up into moodle. from www.wikipedia.org and obtain a list of "event types, condition types, action types" from the page.  along with a list of variable types.  all through xml  otherwords through tincanapi.  then as a teacher, within moodle. and setting up some activity for students to read about history of (_fill in blank_) and being able to capture what that page gives for events, conditions, actions. i could say hey. student needs to read for X length of time. or do a page edit to a wiki page. or find out if page has to many words above person "reading level"   i need other software, and the developers to offer up the rules (ECA) in there own words.  and then i need to be able to at management systems, such as moodle or a LRS (learning recording store) software. be able to push/pull rules ECA. and adjust things.  in a visual programming way such as scratch.mit.edu, and many other websites like it.

i should not need to create a custom plugin for each software. in there native programming code. it would be nice to simply pass rules ECA back and forth.  and let each software have there own rules eca code in them. 

Average of ratings: -
In reply to ryan sanders

Re: Educational gaming for Moodle.

by dawn alderson -

is it not worth thinking about starting small?  TinCanAPI....it is obvious to me that LRS/LMS communications need to be finely grained for what you want Ryan.....sentence structures....and while I may be wrong.....sentence structures come with semantics....(more depth-as opposed to verbs)...I said I could be wrong, of course.

Alternative thinking for joining the dots (poss)=  H5P and some further innovation with conditional activities.....I think the latter has scope to offer a much broader repertoire of choices/functions-building on the premise of what it is set up to do. 

Average of ratings: -