in order to aproach the development of the new wiki moudle, we thougth that we needed more UI power, meaning : we thougth that it would be agood thing to have he possibility to use aplication blocks (like in the moodle courses) inside the wiki module. To make this possible, using the moodle blocks api, we developed a module template able to manage blocks like a normal course.
Now we have a demo of this with a proto-wiki still an embryo but functional.
The wiki syntax used rigth now is the defined by wikipedia. Now we'llstart building over this to reach the requirements proposed by master Martin.
I give you some pictures and the link to the demo.
Most of the credit must go to Ferran Recio and David Castro who are doing (in my opinion) and excelent job.
Comments and suggestions will be most wellcome.
If somebody want to test it in his own server contacte me by email and I'll send you the most stable version available.
Ludo (Marc Alier)
Love Love Love it!!!
I am new to wiki - just learned abut it this week. I was pretty confused, but this is very clear!!!
One question - can you delete a page after you create it?
We cant wait for it t be released and to use it!
What will the formatting be? Will this Wiki support Markdown format? Are you developing this from scratch or is it based on some existing Wiki?
I look forward to trying it out!!
this will suport first the mediawiki (wikpedia) markdown and afterwords the ewiki format ( for moodle historical compatibility) and HTML editor ( but we have to sort out how ).
We are taking bits and pieces of code from mediawiki, but in order to maintain compatibility with moodle and make it easy to maintain we are creating it from scratch.
I'll keep you posted about the improvements.
This is really good work. The idea of having blocks is a very clever one. I love the index and page listing . I am using wikis for students projects and the lack of such simple structure makes the concept less understandable by non-programming students. Cool
However, I have a critic. I see you use a special markup. Even, you have introduced graphical buttons to add wiki-like markup. It is not a good thing to make users to learn a different markup syntax for every activity. The markup used should be standardized, agreed upon by developers and Moodle users community. I think Markdown is the trend.
In addition, Moodle do have a very good HTML editor. HTML has dangers and detractors, but the HTML editor is seen as a key point in usability by most non-techies. It was one of the strongest selling cues to introduce moodle smoothly to teachers in my University: easy copy-paste from Office documents (either MS or OpenOffice). In my opinion, the wiki system should not impose a restriction on the syntax to use. The teacher should be able to choose. And if in doubt, visual edition should be done by the HTML editor, and keyboard-markup with wiki-like syntax as Markdown.
But this is a minor point, I do see a real, huge, advantage to the actual system in the UI structure.
- Enrique -
I'm one of the dfwiki developers. For the moment we decided to adopt the mediawiki markdown format. The reason is simple: wikipedia is the hugest wiki in the net and it's markdown format can be considered the standart.
In future versions dfwiki will also incorporate the old moodle wiki format and the html text editor format.
Our first objective is to develope all the administrative tools (deleting , renameing pages, orphaned pages...).
That's good news. I do not have a clear preference for this or that markup syntax. What I do not want is an scenario where multiple different syntaxes are used at the same time (in different wikipages of course) in the same site.
My impression is very good, I am sure those administrative tools will be another improvement, as your present achievement is.
- Enrique -
About the markup (markdown ferran¿?¿?) I'm thinking about the feature of selecting the wiki language for each page... asking the user who creates.
I am also wandering if its possible to have 2 way translation tools to move from
one markup to the other, and givin the user the capabilitie to use their favourite editor. Theoretically this is possible cause the markup only depends of a filter, but this needs a lot of thinking to do, because some versions are more complete that the others and we shoud define the frameworks of the comon markup language wichs settes up the basic features. I don't know if I'm making any sense... but its too early here in Barcelona.
We already have a standard mechanism for different text formatting rules in Moodle - this should be used in this module. I'm not against mediawiki conventions but if they are added they should be done as a text format and available everywhere in Moodle.
If you can build this thing from the start to use the Moodle format_text() function to render text then it will open up many possibilities later AND save you a lot of work.
Of course it should also be possible for the teacher or admin to enforce a particular format within a particular Wiki Instance or Site, according to preference.
Orthogonality is always a good characteristic in any system. This means that everything has to be done everywhere in the same way. That's very important for the system usability and for maintenance purposes.
If the current standard is not good enough then maybe the problem is if we should be working on a new standard. But the standard must be only one.
The text in the wiki can be processed by filters and thus, redefining the standard implies changes on those filters, but not following the standard makes them inoperative.
But good work, i find also very interesting, maybe some questions/suggestions:
- The index does not show all the pages in the wiki? Only those that can be reached from the initial page through links? The link label and page name can be different but... this can make the navigation a bit difficult
- The index should be like a tree with the ability to expand/collapse subtrees
- Maybe not all the pages should be collaborative (i think this has been posted somewhere): The teacher should be able to define that a page cannot be modified, grade the students work or approve the edits before making it public.
I do not think that allowing to change markup/format/syntax for each page will be a good thing, rather the opposite: a nightmare.
One of the strongest points about wikis is collaborative editing. If different pages do have different formats, that may actually impede the collaborative edition. My opinion is that markup/format/syntax must be set at wiki creation; by teacher or by students authors, but in a decision agreed by all (and a single point decision, not for each page, nor changed in future).
Filters for translation are a totally different issue, from the user perspective. You have got the reason: so much variability in formats, you cannot guarantee reliable translations. You need to actually reduce format options to a handful of supported markup syntaxes. So, an the end, we need an option menu to select select format among the standard formats supported by Moodle.
- Enrique -
To maintain compatibility moodle while accepting the defacto wiki code standard as being carved out by Wikipedia/MediaWiki....
Using an abbreviated version of moodle's htmlarea *plus* mediawiki code for those that know how use it, acceptance of MediaWiki code. This would mean that you would have to work with the Moodle htmlarea developer.
MediaWiki code such as this or ==This== is very useful, a new standard and very desireable, in my opinion.
Bearing in mind that Wikipedia and Wikibooks etc are an Internet revolution...
There's no need to change HTMLArea at all ... HTML with editor is one entry format, and MediaWiki is another format. Until 1.5 we already had a Wiki-like format in there, we just removed it. The only extra things you need to add in the Wiki itself would be support for links and commands (and these apply no matter what format is used).
You may not have seen all the formats Moodle supports - to do so turn off the html editor in your profile and try posting something - you will see a new menu at the bottom to choose a format. This post was written in Markdown format, for example.
Martin, Marc Alier
What I would like to be able to do is use a WYSIWYG editor, even a paired down one, *WITH* a markup code.
This is what in effect MediaWiki provides. I just started using a MediaWIki recently I am very impressed. "No wonder this is so successful" I said to myself. And this Moodle MediaWiki world rocks.
One of the reasons is because there is a rudimentary WYSIWYG editor and a markup language - the best of both worlds.
**i wonder if I can acheive that inside this html editor**. No. Alas not. Markdown is a good idea, both it and Wiki markdown would be better. Even if I click on the <> button, I cannot use Markdown Text code.
I was suggesting that HTML area be changed because I would like both at the same time.
I do respect the arguement for "orthogonality" and matching the rest of the moodle environment. But how about the idea of Making Moodle better than MediaWiki by making it orthogonal with, or superior to MediaWiki, by allowing both MediaWiki code and markdown text format to be used *within HTMLArea*, without having to press the <> button?
In any event, I am very impressed by the **Brand New Wiki Module**. Many thanks to the developers.
we are giving to this issue a lot of thinking. We have as a 1st priority to keep ourselves inside "the moodle way" ( standards and orthogonality), but we also want to boost up the usabity ( key to any wiki ). The integration of the HTML editor with the new wiki module is since the very beginning a requirement stated by Martin. We still have to figure out how to atach this face. Maybe the best way will be to prepare some protypes and evaluate them here.
This week, we'll have a new version ( with some new toy-blocs) and I'll publish it so everyone can download and play with it. I'm specially loking forward to all the suggestions on the code "integration with moodle" standards.
I look forward to being able to try HTML editor enabled wikimodule. Is it ready already.
I'm one of the developers of DFwiki and we are working on integrated DFwiki in Moodle.
As you say, we are trying to introduce the DFwiki parser into Moodle global parser, but at the moment, we don't now how.
Can you give us some clues?
I would choose a format and a userinterface that is as close as possible to Moodle, but with an export (and import) option for Wikipedia/Mediawiki.
This new Wiki interface is almost..
What do you concur with Ludo?
I hope you can keep the MediaWiki markdown *and* a WYSIWYG editor.
We just upload the a new version of dfwiki. This version incorporates some new features:
- New navigation block.
- New administration tool:
- orphaned pages
- newest pages
- activest users
- wanted pages
- most viewed pages
- most updated pages
- delete page
- rename page
- upgraded dfwiki parse
- new orphaned bloc
- new wanted pages block
- search in content and in pagename
the url is:
...for testing and bug hunting.
Attachment or link?
Enjoy and please, give us feedback .
Hi, I'm David Castro and I'm a member of developer group of DFwiki too. Ferran Recio and I are working together to develope a new module of wiki. So, I want to tell you the newest options that will appear in the next version of DFwiki:
- - WYSIWIG editor is available in this new version.
- - Differences between each DFwiki pages version .
- - Parses modifications :
- Generation of Tabs : .
- Update of algorism which generate headers.
- Generation of preformatted text <PRE>.
I hope you like it and enjoy with it.
And like my boss (Marc Alier) said,
Enjoy and please, give us feedback.
this is just to infomr that we heva published another version... of the fwwiki wiki module mainly with imorovements requested at the forums.
- Two byte character set suppoort. For example for japanese wikis.
- Guests are never allowed to edit contents
- Emoticons in the mediawiki markdown format