Quiz

Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button

 
 
Dr. Greg Waddell
Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
 

Hi,

I have created a non-graded quiz to use with my students as a learning experience. The quiz has only questions of the matching type. I have set it up so that the number of times a student can retake the test in unlimited.

When I try out the quiz in the role of a student, I get to the end of the quiz -- to the page that has a summary of my attempt -- and I see two buttons:

Return to attempt, and

Submit all and finish.

When I click "Return to attempt." I would expect to be able to return to my erroneous answers and give them another try. Instead, what I get is a view of the question, with my answers all viewable but disabled so I cannot change them.

When I click "Submit all and finish," I am then permitted to go back and retake the entire quiz.

Is this behavior intended to work this way? If so, then why is the first botton called "Return to attempt"?

Do I need to change something?

Thanks,

Greg

 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

That is the intended behaviour. The summary page is a place for the students to review that they have answered all the questions before they click Submit all and finish. You have to finish one attempt before you are allowed to start a second one.

They can, of course, return to questions they have got wrong (if you are using something like adaptive behaviour) by clicking on the link to a specific question number. (What behaviour are you using?)

 
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Dr. Greg Waddell
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
 

I am using the quiz to teach the concepts, so I set "attempts allowed" to unlimited. I set the question behavior to "immediate feedback." 

The reason I asked this question was I asked my wife to take the test and when she got to the end of it, she interpreted that button to say that she could go back and re-attempt her wrong answers. So, she was stumped by the language of the button. She interpreted "return to attempt" as saying, go back and try again. 

 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
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I can see why some confusion might arise in your particular case. (Also, for what it is worth, I think what you are doing is a good use of the quiz.)

However, what I can't currently see is a way to change things that makes them better in your case, without making it worse in other cases.

I can't help thinking that the path of least resistance at the moment is for your to make sure your students understand which button to press. (However, I also feel that students should not require instructions to attempt a quiz, it should be obvious.)

Constructive suggestions for making the UI clearer welcome, but they have to work for all behaviours.

 
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Picture of Angela Arkinstall
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
 

Here is a screen shot of what my students get when they click on return to quiz (even with multiple tried and adaptive mode - no penalties set):

 

They can't navigate to the incorrect questions - or do anything for that matter. Which makes the return to quiz button ambiguous.


 
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Picture of Emma Richardson
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers

I think the return to quiz button is designed to take them back to where they got to in the quiz.  You need to set the number of attempts allowed to more than one for them to be able to retake it or in adaptive mode, make sure that your questions have hints - each hint gives them another chance to take the question.

 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
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Have you set Navigation method to 'Sequential' rather than 'Free'? If so, it is working exactly the way you told it to.

 
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Picture of Judy Hsu
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
 

Hi Tim where can I find that quiz Navigation method setting in Moodle 2.4.x?

Also, at the "Summary of attempt" page (at the end of taking the quiz), if I don't want students to have capability to GO BACK to the quiz again and change their answers, is there a way that I can hide the "Return to attempt" button? Thanks for your help...

 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
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http://docs.moodle.org/24/en/Quiz_settings#Layout - In navigation is sequential, students can't go back and change their answers.

 
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Jeff
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
 

Hi Tim,

Same trouble discovered by my students later.

A few students have the intention first to see the questions navigating into the pages without answering anyone. There are a total of 10 questions on quiz, separated by five, so a total of two pages are shown. The next page is for summary. And when they click on button "Return to Attempt", the quiz goes directly to the second page, and there are no way to return to first page, and even accessing via course first page, entering in the activity, and clicking in the button "Continue The Last Attempt".

In my case, the quiz have a total of 3 attempts with 1 hour timeout each, and to return to the first page, the student have to lost one attempt to start a second, but as the questions are generated randomly, these students enters in loop (users are users =D).

There are no way really to return to the start of the quiz?

Thanks a lot!
 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

Just to be clear, the way it is supposed to work is that the 'Return to attempt' button should take you back to the page you were on before you clicked 'Finish attempt...'. That will often be the last page of the quiz, if you have just been clicking 'Next'.

If the navigation is set to 'Sequential', then it has to be that way. Sequential is meant to mean that the student is never allowed to go backwards.

I suppose that, if navigation is set to 'Free', and if the student got to the Summary page by clicking 'Next' from the last page of the quiz, then we could have a discussion about whether it is better to go back to the first or last page of the quiz, but I think you would have to work to persuade me if you think it should be changed.

 
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Jeff
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
 

Hi Tim,

Same behavior both sequential and free types. Changing its option, doesn't make any difference.

Even marked as "Free", "Return to Attempt" button returns to the last page of the quiz, and no way to go to the first page.

The tip for "Sequential" mode says:

"When sequential navigation is enabled a student must progress through the quiz in order and may not return to previous pages nor skip ahead."

I can extract from this tip as following:

1) The student cannot go to the next page without checking all the questions of the actual page;

2) The student cannot go to the previous page;

3) Consequently, the student cannot finish the attempt if one or more questions aren't marked.

What is happening is exactly the opposite.

In the other side, the "free" mode allow to answer or not, allow the student to navigate into the pages freely, and finish the attempt with answers not marked. But this is not happening. "Free" navigation mode has the same behavior of "Sequential".

Thanks for the attention.

Jeferson

 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

"I can extract from this tip as following: "

1. is wrong. 2. is right, and hence you conclusion 3. is wrong.


Try this quiz: http://qa.moodle.net/mod/quiz/view.php?id=28

First log in as teacher / test, go to Edit quiz, Switch to Order and paging tab, and repaginate with one question per page.

The log in as student / test, Attempt the quiz. On the first page, click 'Finish attempt...'. Then click Return to attempt. You get back to page 1 of the quiz.

If you edit the settings and change the navigation method to Sequential, the same thing happens.

I am sure that Moodle is working the way it is supposed to.


 
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Jeff
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
 

Hi Tim,

You're right. In my case, turning the paging to a single solves my problem, if sequential mode is enabled. I coached the teachers to change the quiz for this type, while free mode could maintain paginating, but a button to return to go to the previous page is missing, confusing the students. They aren't familiarized to use the navigation block to get back.

I believe that my participation here ended.

Thanks a lot Tim! Best regards.

Jeferson


 
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Picture of Dominik Stuerzer
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
 

Hi,


I'm struggling with the same issue.

I set the Navigation Method to sequential, which is a great option. But the "Return to attempt" button brings the user to the last question in the quiz and from there one can only go forward to the summary. This makes the button quite pointless.

Is it possible to set the "Return to attempt" button to link to the first page (or a specific page) of the quiz?


I'm very new to Moodle and am running Moodle 2.7.2 on Ubuntu 14.04 on a Windows Azure VM.


Thank you so much for your contributions so far!

Dominik

 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

Can you reproduce the problem on http://qa.moodle.net/? (That is a publicly available Moodle test site. It is a good place to check whether a problem affects other Moodle installs, or just you.)

 
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Picture of Dominik Stuerzer
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
 

Hi Tim,


thanks for your fast answer!

I tested it on the Moodle test site, and it returns the same result. So I guess it's not just me. sad

(Some other people seem to share the issue: https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=264956 )


Greetings from Berlin

Dominik

 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

In that case you have found a bug. Would you be able to report it in Moodle's bug tracker? https://docs.moodle.org/dev/Tracker_introduction. Please try to include clear steps to reproduce.

 
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Picture of Dominik Stuerzer
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
 

I reported it in the Moodle Tracker:

https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-47216


As this is my first tracker issue I hope it contains all the information needed.


Thank you, Tim!

Dominik

 
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Picture of Dominik Stuerzer
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
 

Hi Tim,

I just realized, I think we are talking about two different situations:

- You are talking about what happens after clicking on "Finish Attempt".

- I'm talking about what is happening during the attempt befor I clicked on "Finish Attempt". The "Return to Attempt" button is on the last page of the open attempt. There I can see no use in the function if the student is redirected to the last page of the quiz and can't og back to the other pages (in sequential mode).


I hope you can see now, why this issue is still not resolved to me.


Thanks for your patience with me.

Dominik

 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

No. I was talking about the "Return to attempt" button.

 
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Picture of Dominik Stuerzer
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
 

You are right. But still we are talking about two different things.

In your post from 12 Sept. 2014 you described the procedure as following: "Attempt the quiz. On the first page, click 'Finish attempt...'. Then click Return to attempt. You get back to page 1 of the quiz."

That's true, I'm getting the same result.


I'm talking about another situation: If the student works through the whole quiz and clicks on "Next" at the last question he will get to the "Summary of Attempt" (see screenshot), without ever clicking on "Finish Attempt".

On that page the "Return to attempt" button leads you back to the last question page. And if I set the navigation mode to "sequential" the student can not see the other questions again, because he can only navigate forwards.

I can't see how this function would be intended by design.


I tested this with my Moodle installation and with the testing site. I'm getting the same results in both.


I hope I made myself clearer this time. 

Maybe you could give me a hint, where in the code I could change this.


Thanks!

Dominik


 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

I understand exactly what you are saying.

"I can't see how this function would be intended by design."

Well, it is by design. Try seeing further wink

The whole point about sequential navigation is that once the student has moved on from page 1 to page 2, they can never got back to page 2. (Perhaps you need to have questions on page 2 that give away the answers to what was asked on page 1?)

If you don't that behaviour, don't turn on the sequential option.

 
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Picture of Dominik Stuerzer
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
 

OK, I can see the point in that that the student can't go back in the sequential mode. But why would there be the "Return to Attempt" option at all?

Actually I would rather use the free navigation mode. I just changed it, because it came up in this discussion. 

But I got a lot of feedback by my students (with free navigation), that they are confused, why they get taken to the last page. I know, they can navigate in the navigation block. But this behaviour seems just not intuitive to me and my students.

Is there any chance I can change the function? In a way that the student gets taken back to the first page or to the first unfinished question?

I'm willing to change this in my code, but maybe you can give me a hint, where to find it?0


Sorry if this is annoying to you. But this is really a big issue for me and my teachers. I'm very thankful for your patience. 


Dominik

 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

You can certainly change this function. You just need to find the right code, which is not too hard in Moodle.

The button appears on the summary page, which has a URL like mod/quiz/summary.php, so go and look at that file: https://github.com/moodle/moodle/blob/master/mod/quiz/summary.php

In fact there is nothing of interest there. All the output is done by

echo $output->summary_page($attemptobj, $displayoptions);

which takes you to mod/quiz/renderer.php. (This is a bit of a non-obvious step until you know how Moodle renderers work.

https://github.com/moodle/moodle/blob/master/mod/quiz/renderer.php#L562

the code is not there either, but we are getting close, and one more step to https://github.com/moodle/moodle/blob/master/mod/quiz/renderer.php#L627 get us to where we need to be.

Near the top of that page it uses $attemptobj->get_currentpage(). If you want to go back to the start, rather than the page the student was on, the only question is whether you need to change that to 0 or 1, and the answer is 0.

(How could you have worked that out if I had not told you? Well the PHPdoc on the attempt_url method should probably make this clear, but it does not. Oops! https://github.com/moodle/moodle/blob/master/mod/quiz/attemptlib.php#L1114 )


Having explained how to change the code, I am not also going to explain why the code is currently designed the way it is. However, there is a good reason. The way to find out why Moodle is the way it is, is to look through the history of the code. git blame is the command for that: https://github.com/moodle/moodle/blame/master/mod/quiz/renderer.php#L636. When was that code added?

It is tricky because the code has been modifed since it was added. 96e5168 is not the right commit. 33c8d37 is. That links you to MDL-11047.

 
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Picture of Dominik Stuerzer
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
 

Thank you so much, Tim!!!

That really helped me a lot, both with this issue and with the general understanding of the moodle code!


I'm very happy right now, thanks to you!


Greetings from Berlin

Dominik

 
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Picture of Angela Arkinstall
Re: Q re: the "Return to Attempt" button
 

I am having the same problem in all our courses. I have set the quiz to adaptive mode no penalties, yet when the student selects 'return to quiz' they cannot navigate directly to the incorrect questions and correct them. In fact, it takes them to the last question only. Any assistance or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as this is fast becoming a big issue for us.

 
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