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Picture of Visvanath Ratnaweera
CVS_for_Administrators
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers
Hi Helen

I've noticed that you've deleted http://docs.moodle.org/23/en/CVS_for_Administrators and http://docs.moodle.org/24/en/CVS_for_Administrators and left a link to "Goodbye CVS servers! (1/1/2013)" https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=215489.

But the CVS servers have not been shut down which is easily confirmed by issuing the command
cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@SERVER.cvs.moodle.org:/cvsroot/moodle co -P -r MOODLE_23_STABLE moodle
where SERVER=eu for example.

The idea is, releases later than 31. December 2012 will not be checked in (to the CVS server). But the older releases are there. For example the above command will give you "$release = '2.3.3+ (Build: 20121230)'". Same thing for MOODLE_22_STABLE, it fetches "'2.2.6+ (Build: 20121230)'".

Moodle 2.4 is an exception. Moodle 2.4(.0) is not in the CVS, although it was released on 3. December 2012.

The difference between no CVS server and CVS releases only upto 2.3.3+ is huge for Moodle administrators. For those who are in 1.9 for example, this could mean years until they cross the line 2.3.3+.
 
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Davo
Re: CVS_for_Administrators
Group DevelopersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

Except that, even with Moodle 1.9, there will still be very occasional critical security fixes provided until Dec this year. With CVS not being updated those security fixes will not be included for anyone who is still using that as a method of updating.

The simple version - stop using the CVS servers. Spend 30 min (or less) learning the basic git commands needed as an admin and use that instead.

 
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Picture of Visvanath Ratnaweera
Re: CVS_for_Administrators
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers
Hi Davo

You wrote:
> even with Moodle 1.9, there will still be very occasional critical security fixes provided until Dec this year. With CVS not being updated those security fixes will not be included for anyone who is still using that as a method of updating.

That is the whole problem. Developers and system administrators live in two different worlds. The problems start when one party tries to enforce the ways and traditions to the other side. If needed, I can dive into details, I don't think it is worth, we are not talking about any additional services, we are talking about a service which already up and running.

> stop using the CVS servers. Spend 30 min (or less) learning the basic git commands needed as an admin and use that instead.

For my interactive work, I've started using Git and enjoy it. I'm talking about all sorts of "batch" commands, in reality various Linux shell scripts, used in the administration of multiple LAMP servers with multiple Moodle instances in them.

I can assure you that I'm not the only one. People haven't realized since the CVS server is still running. This could be the beginning: "Moodle 2.2.6+ upgrade?" https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=220328.
 
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Picture of Robert Brenstein
Re: CVS_for_Administrators
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers
It seems that CVS was shut down only for Moodle 2. On the CVS page for 1.9, it states: Note that Moodle development now takes place using the Git version control system. You may find it better to read Git for Administrators than this page. However, the copy of code in CVS will be maintained for the foreseeable future. I hope this means what it says.

I concur that Moodle developers and local system administrators live in different worlds and some Moodle developers forget that.
 
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Picture of Visvanath Ratnaweera
Re: CVS_for_Administrators
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers
Hi Robert

You wrote:
> On the CVS page for 1.9, it states: Note that Moodle development now takes place using the Git version control system. You may find it better to read Git for Administrators than this page. However, the copy of code in CVS will be maintained for the foreseeable future.
>
> I hope this means what it says.

Yes, that is different! The question is whether 2 years is a "foreseeable future":
http://docs.moodle.org/19/en/index.php?title=CVS_for_Administrators&action=historysubmit&diff=81521&oldid=81520

http://docs.moodle.org/20/en/CVS_for_Administrators is almost the same: "Note that Moodle development now takes place using the Git version control system. You may find it better to read Git for Administrators than this page if you want to use Git. However, CVS is still the easiest way to do it on many servers, and we will continue providing CVS mirrors of the Moodle code for the foreseeable future."

In http://docs.moodle.org/21/en/CVS_for_Administrators the "foreseeble future" is gone: "Note: The recommended way to obtain Moodle code is via our main Git repository. You may use one of our CVS mirrors, as described below, though please note that this method is soon to be deprecated."
http://docs.moodle.org/21/en/index.php?title=CVS_for_Administrators&action=historysubmit&diff=96090&oldid=94593

The comment in http://docs.moodle.org/22/en/CVS_for_Administrators is identical to /21/.

Finally, http://docs.moodle.org/23/en/CVS_for_Administrators and http://docs.moodle.org/24/en/CVS_for_Administrators are completely cleared as mentioned in the OP.

> I concur that Moodle developers and local system administrators live in different worlds and some Moodle developers forget that.

I don't mind giving this feedback, keeping in mind that techies tend to voice their opinion as in their program code. What bothers me right now is why the fairies have left (check the ratings in this discussion).
;-(
 
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Picture of Robert Brenstein
Re: CVS_for_Administrators
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers
> stop using the CVS servers. Spend 30 min (or less) learning the basic git commands needed as an admin and use that instead.

Davo, you sound like switching from CVS to git is trivial even for people who use that only once a long while (we can upgrade Moodle only between semesters). Is it really as simple as learning a few new commands? You mean that git will recognize or transparently convert the CVS info in an existing Moodle instance? What are chances of things going wrong and wrecking an active site?

I see no mention or link to converting a CVS-based site to using git on the Git for System Administrators page. Preserving local modifications is at stake. Unless it is really trivial, switching from CVS to git is probably worth the trouble when making a major version upgrade.
 
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Dan at desk in Moodle HQ, Perth
Re: CVS_for_Administrators
Group DevelopersGroup Moodle Course Creator Certificate holdersGroup Moodle HQGroup Particularly helpful MoodlersGroup Testers

But the CVS servers have not been shut down which is easily confirmed by issuing the command

This is a bug. The CVS servers are not being updated any more. If you are using this technique to keep your server up to date it will be out of date.

I'll make sure that the CVS servers no longer respond to prevent confusion.

 
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Picture of Visvanath Ratnaweera
Re: CVS_for_Administrators
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers
Hi Dan

> I'll make sure that the CVS servers no longer respond to prevent confusion.

Thanks a lot for personally bringing down this monster!
sad

In the mean time I'm trying the "30 min. or less" rule in the German speaking forum: "Update von Moodle 2.2.7++ nach 2.4 mit git clone? Respektive download von Moodle 2.4 mit git clone!" https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=221392. I'll keep you informed on the time budget.
sad sad
 
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Dan at desk in Moodle HQ, Perth
Re: CVS_for_Administrators
Group DevelopersGroup Moodle Course Creator Certificate holdersGroup Moodle HQGroup Particularly helpful MoodlersGroup Testers

Good luck.

I can say with some experience however long it'll take you to learn, you are sure to get the time savings back in the long run from time saved waiting for it to update.

(Plus git is a fantastic tool, very interesting to learn about and a useful IT skills even used in the Microsoft world if you are that way inclined).

 
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One poor developer...
Re: CVS_for_Administrators
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Moodle HQGroup Particularly helpful MoodlersGroup Testers

Hi all,

I wouldn't say moving from cvs to git it trivial, not at all, but:

1) The switch from cvs to git was done for Moodle 2.0, more than 2 years ago.

2) We have kept the CVS repos manually syncronished since then, just to give people time to switch. And, as an integrator, I must say it was a horrible thing to do all weeks.

3) The CVS shutdown has been announced everywhere (from memory). And we have tried hard to put all sort of information in the Docs to make the migration easier.

4) Since December 2012, we have kept it up for some more extra weeks.

5) cvs.moodle.org is down right now (well, not down, but DNS-disabled, rendering it inaccessible).

6) You would be surprised how other projects have handled the cvs2git thing. Just switch and forget, so...

7) Bye, bye, CVS. Forever.

Ciao smile

 
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Picture of Iñaki Arenaza
Re: CVS_for_Administrators
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

5) cvs.moodle.org is down right now (well, not down, but DNS-disabled, rendering it inaccessible).

And in a few minutes {eu,es,uk,us,us2}.cvs.moodle.org (all of them point to the same server) will stop serving the CVS repository.

So long CVS and thanks for all the fish!

Saludos. Iñaki.

 
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One poor developer...
Re: CVS_for_Administrators
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Moodle HQGroup Particularly helpful MoodlersGroup Testers

Iñaki,

big thanks to you and your Univ for hosting the mirror(s) along all these years! Yes

Ciao smile

 
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Picture of Robert Brenstein
Re: CVS_for_Administrators
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers
I still can't find any Moodle documentation on switching an active 1.9 production site from CVS to git and retaining all local customizations in the process.
 
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One poor developer...
Re: CVS_for_Administrators
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Moodle HQGroup Particularly helpful MoodlersGroup Testers

Very basically,

with MYCVSSITE being your current CVS-based directory, and XX the branch you're running right now.

0) Get git installed in your host, and perform some very-basic configuration.

1) Create the git clone (MYGITSITE):

git clone git://github.com/moodle/moodle.git MYGITSITE

2) Create & switch to the branch you are using under MYGITSITE:

git checkout -b MOODLE_XX_STABLE origin/MOODLE_XX_STABLE 

(that's the official branch, without any modification, we won't perform changes on it)

3) Create a new branch were your customizations will happen:

git checkout -b MOODLE_XX_STABLE_custom

4) Copy your current MYCVSSITE contents to MYGITSITE, for example, using rsync (not tested):

rsync -av --exclude='*CVS*' MYCVSSITE/ MYGITSITE

5) And now, you've everything under a git controlled directory (with your changes still uncommitted, of course). So you will, for example:

  • git status and/or git diff => see which files are pending to commit.
  • git add and git commit => commit them (in the _custom branch).
  • git diff MOODLE_XX_STABLE => See all your committed changes in the custom branch.
  • git checkout MOODLE_XX_STABLE && git pull => get all the modifications in the official branch.
  • git merge / rebase => get all the modifications from the official branch into your custom branch.

6) Finally note that, if your customizations are add-ons that are also in other git repositories, then you can incorporate it as documented in the Moodle Docs, and surely you won't need any _custom branch (although personally I prefer to always create it to avoid any change int the official branches.

7) Love git, in a few weeks you'll never look backwards, it's way better than CVS for any scenario (that said by somebody really reticent to changes).

From here you'll need to explore the "World of Git", because there are many ways to achieve the same, tons of configuration / behavioural options and you'll need to ask / share and find your way.

Feel free to use this as a very-very-basic-start to complete some better documentation @ Moodle Docs if you think it's a good idea.

The post is GPL, so no problems here, lol!

Hope it helps, ciao smile

 
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Picture of Robert Brenstein
Re: CVS_for_Administrators
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers
Thanks Eloy. That sounds like a nice recipe. I will try it out within next few weeks and see whether it is as simple as it sounds upon initial reading.

I have no feelings about CVS and I don't know whether I will love git as much as you and other developers do. I doubt I will use it more often then I use CVS, which, as a site administrator, I use about twice a year, and that normally involves copy/paste of a couple commands which I store in a file.
 
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