Force pass/fail scale to be 0-1 instead of 1-2

Force pass/fail scale to be 0-1 instead of 1-2

by Justina Torres -
Number of replies: 11

Hi Everyone,

I'm sorry if this question has been already answered somewhere, but I couldn't find it.  We're running 2.3.1.  I just set up a simple site-wide "Pass/Fail" scale with two variables: Fail, Pass.  I added this scale to several assignments and then went to look at them in the course gradebook.  It seems that a pass is worth 2 instead of 1.  No matter what I set the aggregation method to, it seems to keep the max grade as "Pass (2)".  How do I make this be "Pass (1)"?

Please see the image below.  Thanks for the help!
Justina

p.s.  Is it possible to add a "Pass/Fail" question and answer on how to set it up in the Grades FAQ in the Moodle Docs?  This would be very helpful.

In reply to Justina Torres

Re: Force pass/fail scale to be 0-1 instead of 1-2

by Derek Chirnside -

You can add the question to the FAQ and hope someone else provides and answer.  smile

-Derek

In reply to Justina Torres

Re: Force pass/fail scale to be 0-1 instead of 1-2

by Michele Edwards -

Season's Greetings Justina.

I hope this brief response sheds some light on the Scale calculation matter - which I just discovered a few days ago.

First, in a (really superb) video on the Gradebook posted on March 2011, Humboldt University mentions that the positive Scale item (using Fail/Pass) was worth 2 points by default - but they were at a loss as to why that might be. (The topic is at about 3:21:00 of the 7 minute video.)

However, Rebecca Barrington does clarify this in her book entitled Moodle Gradebook.  (Packt Publishing, 2012).  She explains that when the scale is created, Moodle assigns a number that corresponds to the number of items.  Therefore, Fail, Pass (1, 2)  - or - Indifferent, Mediocre, Good (1, 2, 3).  Miss Barrington instructs that Moodle will start this numbering at zero (when the scale is actually used) only if the aggregation type is a method - other than - Sum of Grades.  Specifically, she says that the we need to use an aggregation method that will "normalize" the grades - (Chapter 5, Using Calculations - Pages 51 to 52) if we want to see (0, 1) - and Sum of Grades does not normalize. (Page 71, Using Scales.)

Since you mentioned that you have tried several aggregation methods, I am still trying to learn more about this - and if I discover anything else, I will be sure to post that information.

Best regards for a wonderful holiday.

Michele Edwards, New York, USA

 

 

In reply to Michele Edwards

Re: Force pass/fail scale to be 0-1 instead of 1-2

by Justina Torres -

Hi Michele,

Thank you for this VERY helpful information and video!  I have the book you are referring to, but couldn't quite make sense of it until now.  Your explanation helped make it clear.  This video is quite a find too.  I've been looking through some of Humboldt's other videos and they do a really great job of explaining everything.

Thanks again and Merry Christmas!

~Justina Hohmann

In reply to Justina Torres

Re: Force pass/fail scale to be 0-1 instead of 1-2

by Josh Moon -

I wanted to bump this thread to talk about the lack of practicality in making the first scale value 1 instead of 0 in some cases.  I couldn't find anything better. 

For example, let's say you're grading Pass/Fail on items.  You want to reward students for mastery and nothing else.  Your course has 15 learning outcomes (each Pass/Fail).  If you would like Natural to keep a record for you and your students of who has mastered an objective, you end up with weirdness in the Grade Book.

Instead of reflecting that a student has achieved 12 passes for 12 / 15 possible points, you show that they've received 27 out of 30 possible points.  Natural totally fails you in this. 

Considering that many instructors want all-or-nothing mastery assessment and Moodle is encouraging the use of Natural, this is a significant barrier.  I was trying to come up for a solution for some faculty members.  They don't want a numeric average of the number of outcomes mastered (1.67 or something).  They want a total number of outcomes satisfied. 

Josh

In reply to Josh Moon

Re: Force pass/fail scale to be 0-1 instead of 1-2

by Mark McKay -

Hi Josh,

Your argument for 0/1 may make sense if the entire course is based on this scoring mechanism, but add a third item, say, not satisfactory, satisfactory, outstanding, and the middle value is now 50%, which is [typically] a failing grade. Mix this with items graded on the Letters scale, and it becomes even more confusing. For this reason, UMN and many others excludes scales from aggregation. We would accomplish what you describe by making the value of each of the 15 items 1 point.

This issue was discussed at the Moodle Gradebook Working Group at the US Moot in August, and some interesting ideas were raised. Perhaps some day we will be able to set the value for each item in a scale.

Mark McKay
University of Minnesota

In reply to Mark McKay

Re: Force pass/fail scale to be 0-1 instead of 1-2

by Josh Moon -

Thanks Mark,

One of the reasons I post is to probe for perspectives I hadn't considered and yours is a helpful one. 

At my institution, we don't prohibit scales but we don't encourage their use in aggregation for the reasons you discussed.  The only reason they had occurred to me again is that I had started experimenting with Outcomes, which leads one back to scales.  If you want to use Outcomes with a Pass or Fail scale, you see where I end up with Natural totaling points. 

Thanks again!
Josh

In reply to Josh Moon

Re: Force pass/fail scale to be 0-1 instead of 1-2

by Mark McKay -
I believe (crosses fingers) that the new Competency-Based Education model due in 3.1 removes outcomes from the gradebook.
In reply to Mark McKay

Re: Force pass/fail scale to be 0-1 instead of 1-2

by Jean FRUITET -

Hi,

We have discussed such option with Martin Dougiamas in July.

It would be really a bad idea to remove Outcomes from Moodle.

1) Many universities (specially in France) use outcome for Competency evaluation since the first Outcomes implementation back to 2008.

If Outcomes are removed it will be very difficult to migrate to Moodle 3.0 for a lot of institutions which are yet involved in Competency based Education.

This would be a very bad signal to the Moodle Community.

2) Outcomes is a really powerfull tool which can be used to competency evaluation throughout any Moodle Activity.

3) Il lacks of a visualization interface (The Grade module is awful for Outcomes' display) so I have developed a specific module called "Skills repository" ("Referentiel") which is a kind of specialized portfolio for certification and Skills follow-up in Moodle.

You can have a look here : http://docs.moodle.org/en/mod/referentiel/view

Sources for Moodle 1.9 to 3.0 are here : https://github.com/jfruitet?tab=repositories

4) Many contributors to the Competency Framework specification forum emphasise the need of a granularity at the Activity level (and furthermore a Question level for some contributors) .

If a mechanism based upon Outcomes is kept in Moodle, we have not to develop specific code to pull skills evaluation in Competency Framework. Cron will do the job transparently by the way of Outcomes evaluation.

This is exactly what I have implemented in the Referentiel module.


I am ready to contribute to the code integration of Competency Frameworks and Learning Plans in Moodle 3.1 to deliver a conversion tool from Outcomes to Competency Framework and perhaps at last to get rid of Outcomes.
But I can't do nothing until Moodle HQ  publishes the Data model (relationnal tables) and an API. So Outcomes have to be kept in Moodle 3.1 until this conversion tool will be developed.

 

By the way with Outcomes in Assignment I do not use grades (except for Absence / Presence evaluation)

The Outcomes scale is "No pertinent", "Insufficient", "Good" but I may use something more detailed like a LOMER scale.

By default the threshold  of certification is the last value of the scale (i.e. "Good"), or what you like when using Referential module.


I hope that Competency Framework implementation in Moodle will permit to get rid of any specialized portofolio like Referentiel module  :>)) but we have to make it really  powerful to capture all what we did before this implementation.


In reply to Josh Moon

Re: Force pass/fail scale to be 0-1 instead of 1-2

by John Provasnik -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

At my school, we use Outcomes to grade Honors assignments. We needed a way to "grade" Honors assignments without actually assigning the points to the course (and without marking them as "extra credit")

Since they seem to work like scales, we get that Complete/Incomplete aspect. In addition, they don't add to/increase our course total, which is what we couldn't achieve when using Scales (though the work around was to put all Honors assignments into their own category and then drop all the grades--but that was not as easy as simply adding outcomes to the course). So I'm nervous at Mark's comment that Outcomes may get removed from the gradebook  : (

In reply to John Provasnik

Re: Force pass/fail scale to be 0-1 instead of 1-2

by Mark McKay -
If it's not part of the grade, then as long as you can access the outcomes report, shouldn't that serve your purpose? Outcomes aren't "like" a scale, they require a scale.

Regarding Honors students, I've done had a similar situation in which we had graduate students and undergrads in the same course. We had assignments that only applied to the grad students by a group/grouping restriction, which then only increased the course total for those students.
In reply to Mark McKay

Re: Force pass/fail scale to be 0-1 instead of 1-2

by John Provasnik -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Testers

Mark -- Thanks for the clarification. So how do you set that up where only your group's points display as your course totoal? We use grouping restrictions as well (4 total groups, one for each quarter so we can only open 1 quarter's worth of work at a time for students in the class), but their total gradebook is always a sum of all 4 Quarter's assignments even if the students aren't currently in all four quarter groups.


Here is why we like the Outcomes in the gradebook -- it displays the scale for the student in their User report -- everything in one place and no need to go into the category settings and drop anything. I feel it's such an easy solution to achieve what we are looking for. No additional groups to make either...  Your thoughts?