New Bug. Does anyone else see this?

New Bug. Does anyone else see this?

by Doug Moody -
Number of replies: 19

Using 2.3.2

When two (or more) attempts are allowed for a quiz, in order for the dependency of another competion condition to be valid, a student must take BOTH attempts, or the grade condition will not allow them to see the next activity. Here's an example:

1. Make a quiz with two attempts allowed

2. Create a new section, but restrict viewing (hide section entirely) so that a user must receive a grade (I chose lower limit of 70% and upper limit below 100%) on the quiz you made.

3. Student takes quiz and passes (above 70%) on the first attempt

4. Student still cannot see the new section UNLESS they take the quiz twice.

 

Anyone else able to see this behavior?

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Doug Moody

Re: New Bug. Does anyone else see this?

by Hartmut Scherer -

Hi Doug,

I have no Moodle 2.3 installation. So I can only guess. Which grading method did you select? (e.g., highest grade etc.)

With kind regards,

Hartmut

In reply to Hartmut Scherer

Re: New Bug. Does anyone else see this?

by Doug Moody -

Hartmut,

This might have been in previous versions too.

Yes. Highest grade. I want student to receive the highest grade on two attempts.

The issue with this is that it forces users to take the test twice, even if they don't want or need to  (they got 100 the first time) And, if they do get 100 the first attempt, then they won't see the next activity I have planned for them because it is set as invisible until the quiz is completed.

It isn't just with invisible sections. It occurs on activities or resources.

I think this is a critical bug if it is confirmed. I need someone else to confirm that they see it too.

In reply to Doug Moody

Re: New Bug. Does anyone else see this?

by Bob Puffer -

Don't think I'm picking on you, Doug, just taking this opportunity to inform posters to place pertinent information on their post into the subject line so readers don't just see, "Help!!!", or "I've got a problem!", or something along those lines.  Many people receive hundreds of posts per day in digest format and don't want to drill down without knowing something of the nature of the post.

In reply to Bob Puffer

Re: Quiz and competion condition problem

by Helen Foster -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

Good point Bob, you can also change the subject line in your own post, as I'm just doing... (Please don't think I'm picking on anyone. smile)

I am also going to move the discussion thread to the quiz module forum where hopefully someone will have come across the behaviour. If nobody replies, Doug please feel free to use our school demo site to try and reproduce the problem, then if it is reproducible, report it in the Moodle Tracker.

In reply to Doug Moody

Re: Quiz and completion condition problem

by Joseph Rézeau -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

@Doug,

Just tried to reproduce this scenario on my local test site running Moodle 2.3.2+ (Build: 20120914) and I cannot. Once a student have achiveved the minimum score required on the quiz, they can view a conditional resource (or topic section). No need to re-take the quiz.

Joseph

Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Quiz and completion condition problem

by Doug Moody -

Thanks for checkingthis out Joseph.

I think I will post an exact screenshot of my setup. Maybe there is a specific combination of options that causes this

In reply to Doug Moody

Re: New Bug. Does anyone else see this?

by Tim Hunt -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers

After the first attempt is complete, is there a grade in the gradebook for that student?

There should be, and that should be all that is required for activity completion to allow access to the other activity.

In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: New Bug. Does anyone else see this?

by Doug Moody -

Tim,

Yes, it posts a grade. That's what is odd. However, the behavior happened again today. I work on the point system, rather than percentage.

Joseph, did you test the completion as points?

In reply to Doug Moody

Re: New Bug. Does anyone else see this?

by Joseph Rézeau -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

Doug "I work on the point system, rather than percentage. Joseph, did you test the completion as points?"

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean, please explain.

Joseph

In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: New Bug. Does anyone else see this?

by Doug Moody -

Joseph,

When an assignment is made, the number of points that are possible are set in a drop down box (1-100)

When the completion conditions are set, the box says "at least _______ PERCENT but less than ________ PERCENT"

So, I am theorizing that this percentage is somehow calculating off of the total points possible for the assignment, but if the total points possible are something less than 100, then moodle is obviously doing internal calculations on this number. It might be that the internal number moodle calculates is not syncing, and therefore not seeing that an assignment is complete, because 100 points possible for an assignment isn't used as the calculation method.

That's just a theory, so I asked how many points possible you giving for your test assignment. I used 3 points possible, but said completion has to be more than 70% and less than 100%.

What did you use?

In reply to Doug Moody

Re: New Bug. Does anyone else see this?

by Joseph Rézeau -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

@Doug,

I fail to understand why you would set " ... completion has to be more than 70% and less than 100%."

Joseph

In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: New Bug. Does anyone else see this?

by Doug Moody -

Joseph,

Because I want them to pass. The passing grade is 70%. Of course, it is difficult to get 70% when an assignment is only worth 3 points. But that is my grading system.

Perhaps I don't understand how to use these fields. What would you do?

In reply to Doug Moody

Re: New Bug. Does anyone else see this?

by Joseph Rézeau -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

Well, you must set " ... completion has to be more than 70%" and leave the "and less than " field empty!

In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: New Bug. Does anyone else see this?

by Doug Moody -

Joseph,

Really!! ? I will certainly try that. But I don't understand then what kind of logic this is... Why is there a "less than" field? Under what circumstances would I use that?

In reply to Doug Moody

Re: New Bug. Does anyone else see this?

by Joseph Rézeau -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators


Doug: "Why is there a "less than" field? Under what circumstances would I use that?"

Well, you might use it if for instance a student performs poorly in Quiz #1, e.g. score <50%, then give them access to Quiz #1b, featuring easier questions, or revision material and questions, etc.

Tim, any other ideas?

Joseph

In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: New Bug. Does anyone else see this?

by Doug Moody -

Joseph,

Thank you for engaging me on this issue. But I did try your idea, and it still does not work. I thought I would post the actual screens I am using, and explain this bug in the hopes someone would try to suplicate the error, or explain to me what I am doing wrong.

In this first graphic, which DOES work, but cannot be set to depend on students receiving a specific grade before they go on, notice the yellow highlights are all the dependencies. The pink highlights are the names of the actual assignments.

 

In this second graphic, the first red circle shows how many points are possible to be achieved in sending in a graphic assignment. The students are required to draw, then turn in their file to be manually graded, with 4 possible points awarded. This is not a percentage award, just points. In the second red circle below this, are the grade conditions. I have been trying to do two types of conditions. The first would be that they have to receive at least 70% on the previous assignment AND complete the assignment. But when I require a 70% grade, this completion requirement will not display. The ONLY thing that will work is if I simply say (as shown here) that the previous assignment must be complete.

But I do want to restrict viewing of this assignment UNTIL a 70% is achieved on the previous assignment.

In this third graphic, the two checkboxes are ticked for completion requirements. This is what I want to happen. I WANT BOTH requirements to happen. But only the "Student must view this activity to complete it" is working. The grade requirement does not work. If I attempt to require the 70% passing rule, even if students receive 100% (or all 4 possible points) they still cannot view the next assignment.

 

In reply to Doug Moody

Re: New Bug. Does anyone else see this?

by Joseph Rézeau -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

@Doug, I am lost... You started this discussion - in the Quiz module forum - by taking about completion dependency in the Quiz activity.

But in your latest post your are talking about the Assignment activity, which is something completely different.

Plus it seems you are now mixing up the Restrict access feature and the Activity completion feature. This is getting so convoluted that it has become difficult to know exactly what you want and how to help. I hope some other Moodler (more patient and skilled than I am) will come up with the help you need...

Joseph mixed

In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: New Bug. Does anyone else see this?

by Doug Moody -

Joseph,

I am sorry I caused confusion. I can see how I might have caused that.

It started out in the quiz section because the very first dependency in the assignments required that students receive 70% on a quiz in order to start doing assignments. So the FIRST assignment WAS dependent on getting a certain score on a quiz. After that, then each subsequent assignment had to be completed with a minimum score before students would be able to go to the next assignment

So, although the example I sent wasn't about quizzes directly, doesn't the principle still apply? After all, I do want to restrict access based on a score from a previous assignment and whether they complete a previous assignment. Either Moodle isn't working right, or I don't understand what I am doing wrong. It isn't unreasonable to expect that students have to receive a minimum score before they are allowed to continue, and I see no way of achieving this.

What am I missing?

In reply to Doug Moody

Re: New Bug. Does anyone else see this?

by Jean-Michel Védrine -

Hello Doug,

I think you missed completely an important point in Joseph's answer because your sentence "then each subsequent assignment had to be completed with a minimum score before students would be able to go to the next assignment" clearly shows that, as Joseph said "you are now mixing up the Restrict access (aka conditional activities) feature and the Activity completion feature".

So my suggestion is that you carefully study these documentations pages :

Activity completion

Conditional activities

Then when you have a clear view of these 2 distinct Moodle features I think you will understand your problem better.

But what I find rather funny is that your original titlle was "New bug" ...

Average of ratings: Useful (1)