Moodle Partners

Moodle Hosting

 
 
Picture of Marc Grober
Moodle Hosting
 

I would like to see further documentation regarding the behavvior performance of Moodle Partners.  If someone believes it is inappropriate for THIS forum, can someone identify which forum it is appropriae for?  As I hve oined in the past, the conduct of the MPs directly impacts the Moodle community.  While some have attempted to dispute that, and docs were amended to indicate that MPs were not vetted, argument in that vein is simply not conveincing when Moodle HQ makes so much of the relatonship.

Frankly,  I encourage DM to continue to post, in a manner, as Justice Kennedy would argues, that is lucid, cogent, succinct, interesting, informative, and convincing. I applaud her willingness to work with RL, as well as her willingness to provide information on what hosting ith RL is really like.  Bravo!

 
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Picture of Marc Grober
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

and turning spell checker back on.....

 
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Picture of Helen Foster
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Moodle HQGroup Particularly helpful MoodlersGroup Testers

Hi Marc,

As stated in the Comparisons and Advocacy forum introduction:

This forum is a place for people to discuss how Moodle relates to other systems for internet-based learning.

We do not want to see other systems being bashed here - this is a place for comparisons, advocacy, reflections, experiences, and thoughtful general discussions of the playing field that Moodle is part of.

In general, the Using Moodle forums are for "bringing together users and developers from all over the world into discussions about using and developing Moodle as their platform of choice for internet-based learning." (Source: course summary)

Regarding the performance of Moodle Partners, please contact the companies directly, otherwise moodle.com.

 
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Picture of Marc Grober
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

Seems to me that the prior discussion was well within the rubric identified, assuming that by bashed is meant castigating someone in other than a thoughtful manner,  but hen I am not very good at constructivisionistic code, lol.

The alternative, as I see it, is that  Moodle HQ is now indicating that any discussion of the value of hosting at an MP or a discussion of the relaive merits of hosting at a variety of locations which might include a discussion of the qualioty of service provided by an MP is now prohibited in the forums. 

Perhaps you could be a bit clearer as to what is or is not permitted.  We know that Moodle HQ (not the community) makes the decisions as to what will or will not be "tolerated", but the applicable criteria have seemed to be a bit, well, vague.......

But,  if this just a matter of the wrong forum at Moodle.org,  perhaps you would be as good as to identify the frum where the community can discuss the relative merits of hosting with a Moodle Partner without risk of getting censored?

 
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Picture of D M
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

Respectfully, my extensive history with Remote Learner were "experiences".  So how many negative points are we allowed in regards to a Moodle Partner before it is considered "bashing"?

A statement such as "my current host addresses my stat ticket issue within 30 minutes, Remote Learner took almost a month" is a statement that would provide both a comparison and an experience... or would it be considered "bashing"?

I would be happy to rewrite my experiences in an outlined (non-emotionally charged) format for the benefit of other Moodlers.  I would even point out the positives, as I did in the now closed post.

 
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Picture of D M
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

Helen,

To be clear, I really like Moodle.  But the entire reason I picked RL was because they were a Moodle Partner.

By being a Moodle Partner, I am sure many people (like me) view that as an endorsement.  I realized that we would probably have to pay a premium, but I justified that premium thinking that I would always be receiving the best possible hosting service for Moodle.

I am not trying to damage Moodle's business model, but by having them listed as a Moodle Partner, you most certainly caused damage to mine.

If that is something that cannot be discussed here... then shame on Moodle.

 
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Picture of Donna Smith
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

Ditto

 
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Picture of Howard Miller
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

I don't have any kind of problem with Moodle Partner's being discussed in these forums as long as it remains polite and factual. In the thread we are talking about there was quite a bit of unpleasantness between posters and some disinformation as well.

The factual matter about changes at RL may indeed be of interest to people here. However, if you have had a fallout with them, I'm not sure how well that comes over. These situations are often complex and we are only seeing one side. That, and you are posting anonymously which is your choice but leaves me a little uncomfortable.

I don't like censorship but I do want to see a little politeness and I do want to see people sticking to the facts. For example, (and it keeps being tripped out) where does it say you pay a premium for hosting with a Moodle Partner? Most MP's provide hosting at the higher-end of the hosting scale so it's not likely to be free/cheap but it doesn't mean a 'premium' for what you get. Shop around; ask questions!


For the nth time... please remember that Moodle Partners are (a) Commercial Companies in their own right and (b) are all different, run by different people with different products, philosophies and policies.

 
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Picture of D M
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

Remote Learner used to provide their server specs on their website (Classroom Revolution still does).  It was very easy to provide an apples to apples comparison hardware-wise.

Now granted, Moodle Partners do provide some level of "Moodle Support".  So that is part of the equation as well.  But on the flip-side, many non-Moodle Partners also provide Moodle support because it is part of cPanel.  Where I am now they provide me with level 3 engineers that are more than happy to work on my Moodle issues.

I now pay about 1/3 what I was paying with Remote Learner and feel like I am receiving much better service.  But like you said, "Shop around; ask questions!".  That is the best ammo that consumers have, well that and reviews on the internet (sorry, couldnt resist) smile

I would post who it is, but it would get immediately bashed by other as if I am selling something (because bashing others is permitted... it is only bashing hosting providers that is against the forum rules).

I should also note that the reason I originally posted anonymously, since you didn't actually bring it up in an attacking manner like others have... was because as I indicated earlier, I didn't post until my migration was complete.  However, as I am sure you probably know, migrations always have a couple hickups that present themselves in the days following the migration.

I posted anonymously just in case I needed to login to my old server for any reason.  I figured by only providing information that Senior Management would be able to easily identify me with would buy me a couple extra days before my account could possibly be shut down.

I continued to post anonymously because I still had that access in the event an issue were to arise.  My account was closed just 3 days ago.  Now some people may not like me posting anonymously, and some can say that it makes my experiences less credible.  I am fine with both of those statements.  I gain nothing either way.  Afterall, what could Remote Learner really say?  That I wasn't really a customer?  That despite my Remote Learner Review, that I was actually a satisfied customer in the end?  How would they prove that?  It's not like buying something on Ebay that comes with a tracking number.

So here we are.  Frankly, I do not know why I am still typing in this forum.  Negative criticism is clearly not welcome here in regards to Moodle Partners.  That is not aimed at you Howard, but in general to the discussions that have taken place here and in other parts of this forum.

Perhaps my contribution to Moodle should no longer be a financial one.  Maybe my donation should be in the form of starting my own site that reviews Moodle hosts.  People can submit their experiences.  And instead of it only allowing "positive experiences" like the rules of this forum indicate (and are clearly biased based on all of the people trying to "sell" to Donna in the previous thread), my forum will encourage "negative experiences"... which (on the internet) is generally pissed-off comsumers.

It will basically be like Amazon, but with me losing money and not actually selling anything.  But still a donation to the greater-good nevertheless.

BTW, if anybody sees that as a threat, than you are simply against true experiences being published about Moodle hosting providers.  A good Moodle Partner would love the idea... since it would get them more business over the other Moodle Partners.

Can anybody give me a reason I shouldn't make that donation?  Or perhaps the moderators of this forum can just create a forum here that allows open-criticism and save me the 20 minutes?

 
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Picture of Howard Miller
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

If I apply pure self-interest to this - I suppose I am concerned that bad experiences you have with one Moodle Partner do not advertisely affect other Moodle Partners (especially me - my mortgage doesn't pay itself!!). Rememeber, we are still completely separate companies and are, in most cases, in direct competition with each other. I could easily say, "great, somebody bashing RL, more for us" but I don't actually believe that to be true.

I don't think anybody thinks that you shouldn't have a conduit to complain if you get bad or great service from any host. However, the rule is that advertising is only allowed for Moodle Partners. That is a pragmatic rule because Moodle Partners pay the bills. I don't know how you get around that. I suspect a completely open and unbiased forum would need to independent.


Just remember the Moodle logo is a trademark wink wink

 
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Picture of D M
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

@ Howard

So more simply put, you are afraid that one bad Moodle Partner could give all the Moodle Partners a bad name.  100% understandable.  But look at it this way, because of my bad experience with just one Moodle Partner, I will never consider another provider that Moodle calls a "Moodle Partner".  I am sure I am not the only one to think this way.

So it seems that GOOD hosts that happen to be Moodle Partners get screwed either way.  That's a shame.

You will also likely find that the Moodle trademark use alone would not likely hold up in court for a website involving consumer cricism....

See Bally, 29 F. Supp. 2d at 1165 n.2; see also, e.g., Lucent Technologies, Inc. v. Lucentsucks.com, 95 F. Supp. 2d 528 (E.D. Va. 2000) dismissing cybersquatting complaint against operator of lucentsucks.com); Lockheed Martin Corp. v. Parisi, WIPO Case No. D2000-1015 (2001) (refusing to transfer the domain names lockheedsucks.com and lockheedmartinsucks.com); Walmart Stores, Inc. v. walmartcanadasucks.com, WIPO Case No. D2000-1104 (2000) (same, walmartcanadasucks.com), etc.

 
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Picture of Howard Miller
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

The entire extent of my relationship with RL is that Bryan and I are Facebook friends. It's unfortunate that any of E-Learn Design's issues with clients (there are non - obviously wide eyes) could reflect on RL and vice-versa. I might suggest that is potentially your loss as well as mine - but I'll leave that as a thought.

A lawyer? That's all we need wink

 
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Picture of Marc Grober
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

Uh-oh!  Should I take offense, lol?

I do recall another thread regarding the viability of any Moodle brand claims in light of US law on the subject which in some respects supports DM's points.

To dredge up a little more history, many of the previous flame warms were not over the existence of Moodle Partners, nor over the relative merits of various Moodle Partners (in fact such a discussion might have calmed those angry waters, lol) but over the purported uniform superiority of Mps for all your shopping needs wink

Yes, I have recommended MPs to clients. I didn;t do that because they are MPs,  but because they offered a reasonable fit for the client. What it is being argued for is the oportunity to discuss fully the relative merits of various vendors,  which if anything,  Howard,  might just pay off your mortgage evil

 
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Me and da boys!
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

Howard,

Over the years I have dealt with most of the Moodle Partners. Usually when someone approached me for help and they were already with a partner. Eyes wide open- I know what a partner offers and does not. I know the public perception is that a moodle partner is there for it's clients and provides training and customization. Some do a better job than others. IMO if I were ever going to choose a moodle partner or suggest one it would be you but I had the luxury of developing classes under most of the partners systems at one time or another. Most consumers find that a costly process.

Maybe making a group here of those serviced by moodle partners would allow a way for consumers to get inside information.

Disclaimer- I have been out of the loop of dealing with lots of educators for over a year and have NO current opinion on any partner.

 

 
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Picture of Donna Smith
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

@DM

I think your idea is very good, I've had it myself. But let's go a step further. . . a forum about choosing a LMS. There is a real need for information about the good and bad regarding this choice. . .there is very little information out there. A place where people can talk about their experiences good and bad, even anomously. When we ask for feedback from our students, we do so without names because we want them to feel free to tell the truth as they see it. This has helped us in making our school better. As has stated in this thread, people will often not tell what's in their hearts for fear of getting in trouble. I am registered in many forums, none that require your name, just a login and an email. I think this identity issue has been overplayed. Now back to the open forum idea, this is a money making project. Who would not pay a nominal membership fee to read other's experiences about an LMS. Sorta of like Angies's List. Any way it's a good idea, one I'd gladly join.

 
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Christy Tucker
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

You might not even need a paid, independent site to do that kind of discussion. I'm a member of a number of groups on LinkedIn where conversations about how to pick an LMS are already happening. There's a Moodle group on LinkedIn with over 1800 members that appears to be quite active, plus a number of other Moodle groups. I did a quick search for LMS in the groups directory and found "LMS and e-learning," "LMS Buying made easy," and many others. I'm not a member of those specific groups, so I can't say how valuable they are, but I'd hate to see someone "reinvent the wheel" by trying to create an alternate forum when other choices already exist.

 
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Picture of Donna Smith
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

Thanks, Christy. I always just thought that site was for job searching. I'll check it out.

 
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Picture of Reuben Charis
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

Mainly, it is for jobs - but there are a number of industry groups people use to communicate about all sorts of things there - several active ones on Moodle.


One thing though - demand for Moodle experts is very high at this time, and so often bosses don't want their staff on Linkedin - as soon as you set up a profile there that demonstrates you have Moodle expertise, you'll start to get job offerssmile.

 
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Me and da boys!
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

Quite correct though most of the 'job' offers do not include a salary.

 
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Julian Ridden
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group DevelopersGroup Moodle Course Creator Certificate holdersGroup Translators

Let me walk in where I think few will fear to tread.

For those who don't know me, my name is Julian, but I am often known round the traps as "Moodleman". I am a passionate Moodle advocate of over 8 years and have been working for a Moodle Partner (Pukunui) for the past 4 years

I fear in many ways this thread is just hear to stir trouble. That being said, I am keen to become part of the debate.

Lets get to the point of this , for me, for a second.

  1. Moodle is open source
  2. Moodle can be hosted on ANY server
  3. Moodle Partners provide hosting and services with the right to market using the trademark. 

 Moodle can, and often IS installed on whatever server the client wishes. This can be their own, any online web host or the server of a Moodle Partner. The option is completely up to the user and is chosen based on knowledge and recommendations from others.

Are Moodle Partners perfect? Far from it? I certainly know we are not. We make mistakes, our servers could often be configured better. We go out of our way to ensure we are constantly growing to meet our clients demands and expectations but of course this is IT. Things go wrong and we can always try to do better. Speak to my clients over the years and there will be some who say we am awful, some who say they are happy, and some who say we am the best decision they ever made. Each are individual views based on experiences had by that user. As an organisation trying to build a successful and growing company we try to ensure we make more people happy than miserable and encourage open communication at all times. Through this we better ourselves and our services.

So why do companies choose Partners? They in essence provide the same service as any web host do they not? A server with a certain specification that runs web software. This is true, but we also offer more. Moodle Partners offer experience, moodle support and moodle orientated technical support. Just as all web hosts are not the same, neither are all Moodle Partners. They each offer services in different ways with varying methods of server support. Pukunui and Netspot for instance, both Australian Moodle partners offer server hosting and support in completely different models. Each attracts a certain type of company or user and turns away others. Why do I highlight this? Well it comes down to how a client chooses their host.

New potential clients often ask me “What does Pukunui do?”. I answer simply “We fill in the blanks”. This is what may partners do. What do I mean by blanks? We fill in the gaps of knowledge they have. We offer training for those who want to learn how to use Moodle, we provide best practice consulting for information on how to set up, we provide technical support for those who struggle to run their own, we provide development for those wanting custom code and additions and we provide hosting for those who wish us to run the site for them. Each service is individual and not necessarily tied to any other. Other Moodle Partners around the world offer similar combinations of such services. My potential clients who are missing certain skill-sets pick a combination of services they need. And this is the important point for me. The CLIENT identifies skills/services they are lacking and choose a provider to best suit their need.

If they know moodle, how to run It and can set up a server they may never call us at all and run the entire system in-house.

Maybe they know how to use and run it but cant technically support it. In this case they can use any online web host and set it up themselves. I know quite a few organisations who use Amazon S3 in such a fashion.

Maybe they have in-house web servers and want to use moodle but have not run their own before. We go out, train their admins, hear from them 3 times for consulting and never again.

Maybe they know nothing except that Moodle suits their need. They then outsource the entire kit and kaboodle to a Partner for full servicing and support.

The iterations are of course endless. But what I hope I am doing is illustrating that clients pick Partners because they are a specialised company who can “fill in blanks” that they have identified.

But again let me stress. The client chooses. And they can choose whatever they wish. Moodle IS open source and can be placed anywhere. Partners don’t limit this, in fact, at Pukunui, we have helped many through training and consulting t move everything in-house or, recently, to sites such as Amazon S3 or others. It is just part of a service we offer. Each Partner runs their own business with their own model. Ours is completely different to Netspot which is different to Catalyst, which is different to Remote Learner which is different to........you get the idea. Clients search the ecosystem for a Provider that can provide the combination of services that best suit their need.

So, what is different about a Partner? What is it they do that is so special and needs to be separated out? Partners do a few things.

Firstly, they provide an income stream to Moodle. Moodle of course needs funds to pay it’s staff. Funds to better the product and help it grow. As the software is free, it is services that provides most of the income. And as Moodle does not directly offer services, it is through the partners that these funds are generated. How does this work? 10% of the earnings of a Moodle Partner go straight to Moodle...as clear as that. (info here http://moodle.com/partners/about/ )

Secondly Partners also provide expertise. This expertise is often unique to each Partner. Each is chose, not on fiscal capability, but on what they can bring to the project. Some bring code, certification programs, large scale hosting expertise, training credentials, etc. While the skill may be unique, each helps build the product and make it better.

So here I come to the clincher. Why is the Partner program regulated? The following is MY view, but one I am sure many share. The Partner program is there to ensure others are not making money off this wonderful product/brand without putting back. I don’t think it fair that anyone should be able to market with this logo and yet put nothing back in. That, to me, is the simple simplicity of the argument. But that is it...companies who MARKET themselves. I think this is very clearly explained here (http://moodle.com/trademarks/).

You can contact any developer you want and have them do development for you. You can contact any host and have them run a moodle site. You can contact any consultant/trainer and have them run Moodle training. If you think another provider is better than a Partner based on need or reputation you can choose them. I personally have 4 friends/colleagues of mine who offer consulting/services as non partners and are doing stellar work while not breaching the guidelines. In fact, I did so myself for several years before joining Pukunui. Why did I join Pukunui then? I wanted the chance to be able to do more and put something directly back into the project. I have not regretted this decision for a minute.

So last question, why this essay?

I get very frustrated watching certain elements of the community dragging Partners down for reasons I do not understand. I hope to illustrate with this response the simplicity of the fact that this, regardless of what they say, is still very much an open market. Hold them accountable as you would any web host or consultant. Price compare what you are getting for that service and shop around. If you have an issue with your Partner contact them and try and get it resolved. If it cannot be resolved, change to a provider (partner or not) that can provide the service you need. If you don’t like them, don’t use them. If you don’t need them, don’t use them. But don’t mock or harass those who do. Let users “fill in the blanks” as they need to/want to.

To bring back Helen’s remark from earlier:

“We do not want to see other systems being bashed here - this is a place for comparisons, advocacy, reflections, experiences, and thoughtful general discussions of the playing field that Moodle is part of.”

This forum, and in fact all of Moodle.org is geared towards this goal and it is one of many reasons I am proud to be part of this community. We don’t bash other applications, hosts, providers or systems. We instead promote advocacy and reflection. Over the 8 years I have been part of this community it is this attitude and from it the views shared that have increased my knowledge and passion for education, open source and moodle. As I hope you would do with any organisation you have a relationship with, if you hav issues please contact them directly. If you believe they are doig disservice to the Moodle Trademark, then let Moodle know (contact info on this page http://moodle.com/contact/ ) as Martin and his team are keen to ensure Moodle is forever moving forward, not backward.

I don’t intend to follow up on this post to reply to baiting and cynicism. I hope instead that this post can promote positive discussion on how others can fill in the blanks and methods with which they have done so.

 
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Picture of Marc Grober
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

Translation: excuse me while I jump in, hurl epithets and jump out because I don;t want to be a part of same". Lol, Julian you are a piece of work. No one is baiting or trolling or doing any of the terrible things you seem to be hatching in your mind.... this discussion is about having a place where people can discuss webhosts without risk of censorship because the discussion turns to an MP. Moreover, as I pointed out, while some continue to argue that Moodle.org is here for purposes x, y, and z, others have noted, lol, that the tail is waging the dog.

As far as your simple prescription,  it is simply not viable because the narket is such that a user cannot get a fair deal.  The user is always buying a big in a poke with no real guaranty.

 
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Picture of Marc Grober
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

MPs are also advertised as receiv ing "special support" which creates an impression of expertise.  Additionally, the MP selection process is just that,  so users are also led to believe that MHQ only selects MPs HQ believes are effective supporters of Moodle.

 
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Picture of Howard Miller
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

all true... MP reported bugs are meant to be given priority. I'm not sure that equates to expertise although a company would generally have to have a very good Moodle 'track record' to get selected.


Ultimately, it's a commercial decision for Moodle HQ... and why not?

 
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Picture of Bob Puffer
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group Particularly helpful MoodlersGroup Testers

I think I've found some common ground with you.  I do believe there should be a public forum that:

  1. removes as much emotion as possible given the fact that negative experiences with software vendors and hosts are typically VERY emotional experiences
  2. Provides some guidelines from Moodle HQ on how they maintain QOS standards within their Moodle partners
  3. Provides a rubric by which individual experiences of services provided by partners are graded
  4. uses no pseudonyms (IMO, failure to reveal your identity disqualifies you from engaging in a conversation unless the conversation is designed to be anonymous)

I think it is quite likely we will hear both good and bad remarks, hopefully they will all be respectful.  I for one am particularly interested in how things go with the Partners bought out by BB.

 
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Picture of D M
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

@ Bob:  I agree with almost everything... but I know for a fact that there are people who simply will not post because they fear retaliation from their hosting provider (I am not saying that it is a valid fear, but a fear nevertheless).

People that choose to share their views have nothing to gain (and if they are still at their current host) only have something to lose.  Put yourself in the position of a customer.  Although knowing their name may mean more to you, not providing it probably means more to them.

They do not "owe" anybody their review and should never be "disqualified".

 
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Picture of Marc Grober
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

I agree almost entirely Bob,  but, as D M notes, there are a number of reasons why people who wish to engage in such discussions would be reasonably afraid of disclosing identity (including internal and external reasons.)  While I agree that one should be able to express oneself freely,  my experience (having expressed myself freely) is that even where one confines oneself to being "positive", raising issues typically translates to black marks and one's career will suffer. As a result I try to take what I read in the context of what I read. The more convinced I am of the accuracy of the material,  the more credibility I give it.  Of course, when one reviews what Steve had to say,  while he was often stridient about the hubris he saw,  his technical comments were always dead on, and his analysis I think largely accurate.

What I see happening is that some individuals are taking personal offense at opinions regarding their busniess performance (as one is want to do when one is invested in one's business.)  Others in similar circumstances are more sanguine (Howard, for example) and in trying to walk the high road, as it were, sometimes inadvertantly make matters worse (eg. Peter Seaman's "ad hominem, in a parallel thread, lol.) Likewise,  to suggest that D M's posts are not thoughtful or constructive is insulting.

As to dynamics of such exchanges; they will always be difficult,  but I think well worth the effort. They are asymetric, though. When someone suggests that  vendor A's response to a specific situation was unacceptable for reasons x, y, and z, vendor has I think a dual obligation.  As I noted myself to D M, vendor A in her situaton certainly had more than enough data to effect an identification, and posts by Vendor A, understood as demeaning of D M's position (because D M was posting here anonymously) were arguably ludicrous and could be the basis for criticism itself.  In other words, bureaucratic responses do little to illuminate, and do all to throw fuel on the fire.  I am well aware that many end-users simply are clueless about support,  but you don't solve that situation by infantilizing, obfuscating or attacking.

In any event, AT and I had tried to begin development of such a rubric and a set of guidelines for assisting new users in applying the rubric.  There were a number of reasons why that effort remains as it was, lol. Our focus was to move forward an approach to a metric by which webhosts could be evaluated.  As you can imagine,  that is very difficult in every respect wink

We will not know the viability of such a forum, as long as Moodle HQ continues to shut down any such discussion, and as I have suggested elsewhere, that is inevitably what happens, no matter how sweet or gentle manner in which Helen handles it.

 
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Picture of Peter Seaman
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers

After following this discussion for the past week or so, I have arrived at the following conclusions:

1) The success of Moodle as an LMS depends upon the success of the Moodle Partners. If the MPs are not successful, then there will be no more Moodle. So the community has a legitimate interest in the success of the MPs. Whoever mentioned "Aunty Helen's pointy stick" is exactly right: the whys and wherefores of the MP arrangement are not up for discussion.

2)The MPs provide an essential service for many organizations. If you can run your own Moodle instance, great. But many people can't, and many people don't want to. For these folks, the MPs are a great solution - and the thriving business of the MPs around the globe is testimony to that fact.

3) I have worked with Remote-Learner for around seven years and have had nothing but positive experiences. I have recommended them to clients who have had nothing but positive experiences. I will continue using RL's services and recommending RL to future clients, without hesitation.

4) Reading about one person's bad experiences with RL does not change my opinion. Reading about one unknown person's (UKP's) bad experiences affects my opinion in no way whatsoever - doesn't even move the needle on the Richter scale.

5) If I were to have a bad experience with one MP, I would certainly consider another MP - just as I'd rent a car from, say Hertz if I had a bad experience at Enterprise.  Someone else mentioned the MP purchased by BB, and I too would approach them warily, but only b/c I used BB for several years and had a really bad experience (frequent crashes, non-performing features, poor support, and corporate spin). But I'd certainly give them a look.

6) When considering whether to buy a service, I ask people I trust about their experiences with the service. I don't pay any attention at all to UKPs. As I said in an earlier post, it's just way too easy to create a false persona online. Unless someone is in the Federal Witness Protection Program, s/he doesn't require anonymity, IMHO. This is Moodle we're talking about, for heaven's sake.  wink

So those are my conclusions.  Thanks to everyone who helped me reach them.

Peter

 
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Picture of Waithaka Ngigi
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

Hello everyone,

My 2 cents on this, based on experiences elsewhere...

MPs have a direct relationship with their customes, which is private. As such any issues between the MPs and their customers should not be discussed in an open forum, but between themselves.

Allowing the discussions of MPs performance here would be tantamount to having the proverbial domicles sword hanging over their necks everytime they take in a customer, since they would be in a catch-22 situation coming to defend themselves here, in this open court( do nothing, then you guilty, do something then your leaking confidential info) etc

Discussions about MPs performance should be on their respective vendor sites and not here. As an example if you have an issue with Redhat, you discuss it in Redhat's forums, not in the Kernel.org forums.

Disclaimer: I am not an MP nor do I represent a firm that is an MP.

Regards

Waithaka Ngigi

Academia.A1.iO

 
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Picture of Howard Miller
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

To put it even more bluntly... if I run a public forum to, essentially, promote my business I'm not going to allow people to 'diss' my business and those who contribute to it. Why would I? That would be stupid.

I think Moodle HQ has been surprisingly tolerant in the past of open discussion - which is a good thing. But there is going to be a limit. I don't know why anybody is surprised.

 
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Picture of Mauno Korpelainen
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers

Smart bosses give their clients a simple way to criticize their business affairs directly and also make sure that clients get some response directly to all kinds of feedback, also negative feedback... but this kind of public forums may not be the best place for such discussions. wink

http://docs.moodle.org/23/en/Moodle.org_forums_Code_of_Conduct and http://docs.moodle.org/23/en/Policy_on_Advertising are pretty "neutral".

This is not the first time we have been discussing about the "freedom of speech" on public forums vs forum moderation and Marc has posted similar posts before. It may be partly a cultural issue - in some cultures you tend to criticize everything in public and in some cultures you are not allowed to criticize anything anywhere. The problem is just where to set that "limit" . The problem is not if you are (not) allowed to criticize your boss or "business fellow" (MP) but how to do it "nicely"... and where...

For example closed "Flame wars" between Partners and Steve a couple of years ago were small talk compared to such real taboo issues like this. And closing such issues that get too "personal" or off topic or violate the Code of Conduct (forum rules) is just a normal act in forum moderation. 

Still - as far as I have been told this moodle.org site is not only for promoting/advertising moodle.com services or moodle partners.

Home page of moodle.org tells that "Moodle.org is our community site where Moodle is made and discussed."
When I click link "Community" I see that "Moodle has a large and diverse user community with over 1204470 registered users on this Moodle site alone, speaking over 78 languages in 214 countries." Next I click the link "List of all forums" to get text: "The main support and developer discussions between users and developers are in English here: > Using Moodle and see a Welcome text to the main Moodle community forums...

Personally I have posted over 5000 hopefully useful posts to these forums during the past 6 years (a little less than You anyway) and thought that it was my way of paying back to the community - and to core developers among other activity in tracker, testing, forum moderation or responsing to private messages/emails sent by other moodlers. I did it because it was fun, helping people with their problems gives me good feelings - not for the money - or to promote partners.

How about adding a separate course for discussing common Moodle Partner Hosting (business) issues - and nothing else - here http://moodle.org/course/ ?

 
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Picture of Howard Miller
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

...but... Moodle HQ promotes Moodle Partners in these forums and does not permit the advertising of other services (except in some circumstances). I do hope this isn't news to anybody. If you spend your money with a Moodle Partner you know that a fairly significant contribution goes back to Moodle HQ to fund these forums and pay the HQ staff. On that basis, these forums can not be totally open.

On the other hand, you get Moodle for free. I suppose it would be nice to have a major open source product completely free of commercial considerations but that's not how it is.

I don't see any of this as a problem as long as everybody knows what's going on. Any online forum has been provided by somebody at some cost. Forums have moderators. Forums have rules. You'll never get everybody to agree and - ultimately - the guy who pays the bills has the last say. That's life people wink

 
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Picture of D M
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

I posted some of this in the other forum, but it is actually more appropriate in response here.  Sorry for the doubling smile

Moodle wasn't free to me.  I paid A LOT of money towards Moodle.

Needless to say, I have lost a lot of respect for Moodle after all of this.  In the eyes of a consumer... all Moodle Partners are the same. I can't stress that last sentence enough.  It might not be true, but that is how it appears to an outsider.

One bad apple can spoil the whole bunch.  Especially when that apple is a pretty big one hanging on the tree.  If I were a Moodle Partner, I would be straight-up pissed if other Moodle Partners were making me look bad.

But hey, I guess I am on your side now.  Let Remote Learner keep targeting those "sales" instead of "support" (like their employee reviews noted).  Moodle can get all the funding it needs... and I can keep my donations in my pocket as a result smile

I wish you all the best of luck and hope that Moodle can continue to grow off of its hollow endorsements of both quality and non-quality hosting providers alike.

I am just glad that I am not in that sucker crowd anymore and can enjoy just the upside like many of you. 

 
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Picture of Marc Grober
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

Zimbardo's analysis of the "one bad apple" defense is perhaps surprisingly apropos here

 
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moi!!! it is what is is...
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

Defence? mmm more like the exposure of a fallacy. Have you looked at "The Lucifer Effect" Marc? Very interesting study.

 
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Picture of Marc Grober
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

LOL, Colin,  that was recommended reading in the socpsych course I taught. What I meant is that Zimbardo suggests that the one bad apple is offered up as excusing conduct that is based elsewhere, so as you put it,  it is in a sense a fallacy from the external observer's perspective.  I was of an age to have studied much of the young turks work when they were just starting, and Zimbardo's lingering concern over the nature of evil, another interest of mine, has led me to follow his work for years smile

Glad someone understands what I am talking about,  if even they do libe in Oz, lol. Good on ya, mate!

 
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Picture of Howard Miller
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

Yes - most people end up making some sort of financial committment in order to use Moodle (as they would any other VLE).


If *you* feel that a bad experience of one Moodle Partner colours your experiences of *all* Moodle Partners then so be it - I don't suppose there's much I can do about that. I find it a stretch, though, to assert that most fair-minded people will consider that bad experience colours all Moodle Partners equally.

I strongly suspect that you are also in the minority when it comes to satisfaction with RL but that is nothing to do with me so I won't go there. Bryan and his team are more than capabably of defending themselves wink

 
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Picture of Mauno Korpelainen
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers

Yes - and we all have our basic tasks... no matter if we are commercial partners/customers or non-commercial (free) moodlers... wink

Hush

 
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Picture of Marc Grober
Re: Moodle Hosting [the tail wagging the dog]
 

and there it is.....

the bottom line, as some have suggested in the past,  is that Modle is a vehicle for some to make money.  Moodle.org exists for the purpose of promoting a product which makes people money.  The ostensible purpose understod by the community has been subsumed by this purpose, and so,  unlike the situation in other foundations, any discussion critical of Moodle,  in as much as it reduces the profit magin of the MPs, is verboten.

Cultural, Mauno?  I suppose. I have a friend who fels that the moron who created the video that is upsetting muslims should be prosecuted for some criminal conduct. Not buying that any more than I am buying the suggestion that criticism of those officially flashing the Moodle logo is inappropriate because it could cause a loss of revenues.  Just the opposite; such criticism should be a basis for improvement, and one does not get better by denying one's foibles.

 
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Picture of Reuben Charis
Re: Moodle Hosting [the tail wagging the dog]
 

Moodle.org exists for the purpose of promoting a product which makes people money.

You have it bassackwards - the money makes Moodle.org possible. 

 
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Picture of Marc Grober
Re: Moodle Hosting [the tail wagging the dog]
 

We all heard the whistling sound as my point went over your head charis

 
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Picture of Reuben Charis
Re: Moodle Hosting [the tail wagging the dog]
 

You use so many words, and you use them so very oddly. No matter how hard and long I stare at them, reading between, outside, and underneath the lines, I can't see anything deeper than "I am right and you are wrong".

Sorry, if you have something deep and profound hidden in there, you have hidden it from us quite well.

Cudos to you for that.

 
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moi!!! it is what is is...
Re: Moodle Hosting [the tail wagging the dog]
Group Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

hahhahahaaa!... Rueben, Marc's point is clear, but go back to the very first post.

The question, for me, is around two things. How do these forums to adequately find ways of coping with the venting that people will do about MPs from time to time and how an MP will react to that? And the deeper question, how can Moodle.org ensure that MPs are behaving consistently and appropriately? (Obviously without jeopardising its own income stream.)

For the first, frank, open, honest discussion is a good start. The discussion via DM, for example, has shown us we do not handle it well at the moment. But we, as a community, should not take too much of the emotive side of that venting and react to it as a destructive thing, we could just accept it and move on, or try to support the author instead of dismissing them. In most cases, the MP, who may or may not be aware of the venting, should react by simply investigating the issues to a point where they can be satisfied their systems are flawed and try to fix it, or there is no basis for the vent. If too many people are upset, they will vote with their feet.

The other issue is a lot more thorny and comes back to the legal description and definition of the relationship between Moodle and MPs. Martin, I suspect, has sought to protect the product, first and foremost, a valid approach. Whether Moodle should display any concern over the relationships between an MP at the MPs clientele, is a vastly different question. Marc has always suggested it should, but it seems that others entirely disagree. Marc's boldness is admirable, but they suggest is impractical, legally unnecessary, financially suicidal. I suggest not. It is practical, it is necessary and, in the longer term, financially more stable. If MPs have high standards they must meet to remain an MP, then everyone will benefit. Most MPs will do credible jobs, but there is no such thing as a system of perfection, there is always cracks. People will always find them and fall through. It is the MPs response to that that I suggest needs to be monitored. 

 
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Picture of Reuben Charis
Re: Moodle Hosting [the tail wagging the dog]
 

WRT to DM - what I saw was not any attempt to censor him(her?) what I saw was more like when someone starts yelling in a restaurant. When someone asks for that to stop, they are not disagreeing with her (his?) words, but with his/her manners.

Many people don't like to have to listen to yelling. Now for instance someone could come in and say

"X took away my C-Panel and didn't give me much warning, and they replaced their phone support with a ticket system.

I want C-Panel and phone support, if you do too, you don't want to host with X."

Now if someone asked for a moderator to erase a post like that, that would be 'censorship' of the message, not the manners.

 

 
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Picture of Marc Grober
Re: Moodle Hosting [the tail wagging the dog]
 

Dangerous waters here, Colin, lol.

But I have to suggest that if Mauno, who is the epitomy courtesy, self-effacement and propriety and Colin, who is patient beyond human ken (and lives down under with eucalyptus trees and such) see discussion such as I have suggested as not only viable, but healthy, what are the real arguments against?

Indeed,  I have to suggest that Moodle HQ invite DM to moderate such a forum as that would arguably be giving the devil the benefit of the bargain as Daniel Webster might argue.

 
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moi!!! it is what is is...
Re: Moodle Hosting [the tail wagging the dog]
Group Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

Patient???? I have been called a lot of things before.. Nope, patient has never been one of them..cool..

 
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Picture of Marc Grober
Re: Moodle Hosting [the tail wagging the dog]
 

We all heard the whistling sound as my point went over your head charis

 
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Martin Dougiamas
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Moodle HQGroup Particularly helpful MoodlersGroup Testers

I have no problem with trying a dedicated forum to discuss Moodle Partners here on moodle.org, I think it's a good idea for potential clients to share and discuss information publically.

That said, it should be kept constructive, factual, polite and not be used for defamation or flaming.  It should not be the first port of call for problems either - if one has a problem with ANY service company they should surely give them every chance to sort it out first.   Sometimes (not always!) "problems" are more complicated than they first appear, and sometimes they are simply a result of a glitch in communication.  It would be a terrible shame if a hard-working company who serves 99.5% of their clients admirably and silently has their business affected by loud negative comments from 0.5%.  As anyone who has had a significant amount of clients in a business knows that there is always that 0.5%, no matter how hard you try to please them.

So I think a forum here makes sense if these kinds of rules are enforced by a clear policy.  I want our Moodle Partners to be as good as they can be, and that includes being able to respond positively to criticism and competition.   In short, all I ask is that criticism is constructive and in context.

Some other points worth stating here for context:

  • the programmers who make Moodle have families too, and need to be paid to continue working on Moodle.  If you just don't like the MP program on principle, please let me know another way of doing this - I'm all ears.
  • anyone is free to make money from Moodle and NOT contribute any to Moodle development - thousands of people around the world do so,
  • anyone is free to choose services from someone who is not a Moodle Partner, 
  • Moodle Partners have CHOSEN to contribute 10% back to Moodle, sometimes even to their financial detriment, because they want to support the development of Moodle for everyone to use for free.  This alone means they deserve your support and encouragement.
 
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Picture of Peter Seaman
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers

Thank you, Martin, for being open to having further discussion about this issue. And thank you for clarifying that Moodle is NOT "all about money" - that Moodle is still largely about making great software freely available for everyone's educational advancement.

If a forum is established for discussing the Moodle Partners, I think it will have to be actively moderated (set up for message approval). As we have seen, when someone really wants to flame or defame, s/he will do so, despite the social and professional restraints that guide most people's behavior.  Yes, someone will need to do the hard work of approving posts, IMO.

Some will cry "censorship" - "How dare you keep me from saying whatever I want to say!" But we all agree to abide by common-sense restraints in our everyday lives (no yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, no yelling epithets at people in the corridors at work, no arguing ad nauseam, etc). The same should apply here.

Thanks again for the great work you do and lead at Moodle HQ.

Peter

 
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Picture of Bob Puffer
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group Particularly helpful MoodlersGroup Testers

Well stated and everything for which I would have hoped.

 
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Picture of D M
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

@ Martin

Thank you for your response to this issue.  Realisticly, in a forum setting the loudest voice is either someone who is just a born-complainer or someone that has been pushed to the limit and is seriously pissed off.  But there never is a way to tell which one the poster is (which is the cause of this enormous debate).  Plus, logically if you wanted to censor harsh feedback then you would have to be willing to censor extremely positive feedback.

I think there might be a simpler (and less messy) solution.

How about an annual (or semi-annual) poll that is only provided to Moodle Partner clients that can be displayed on your site?  Think about it... you can then avoid the ugly details of each unhappy/happy person's experience.  Just ask things like:

(rate from 1 to 5, or Not-Applicable)

1. Moodle Partner's responsiveness to general questions.

2. Website Uptime

3.  Moodle Partner's responsiveness to server issues

4. Moodle Partner's responsiveness to Moodle issues

5. Overall experience / Chance of you recommending to a friend.

Post the results annually on your site.

Think about it.  Not only would your business model maintain the same incoming revenue... but you would also end up with a more satisfied client base that would be more willing to recommend their Moodle Partner to others... which would mean more $$ for Moodle.

It would also reinforce that being a Moodle Partner does not exactly constitute as an endorsement from Moodle.

You would just have to make a condition of being a Moodle Partner that they have to provide the questionnaire to their clients (or get a list of their clients and have Moodle provide it to them directly).  If Moodle provided it directly, clients would probably feel much more comfortable with providing honest feedback.

Then the public can make an informed decision based on a balance of REAL reviews (provided by Moodle) and the partner's features/price (from their website), good Moodle Partners are rewarded properly, and Moodle can experience increased revenues.

 
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Picture of D M
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

BTW, this would solve Peter and Bob's anonymity issue, Donna & my quality issues, Colin's MP accountability issue, Marc's transparency issue, Helen's bashing issue, Moodle's financial issue, and prevent Howard's business from being "grouped together" with those with a bad reputation.

 
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Picture of Marc Grober
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

and here I thought my only issue called me "Pops".....

 
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moi!!! it is what is is...
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

Issues??? Wow.. let me line them up, in increasing order of difficulty, or perhaps old favourites first. I would be guaranteed to keep a trickcyclist in comparitive luxury for years. tongueout  

Complete anonymity and voluntary response... In Oz we currently have some serious accountability issues right across the board, so, to me, DM's idea is not that outrageous actually.

 
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Picture of Peter Seaman
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers

I'm not so sure an annual survey would solve problems caused by anonymous flaming. When some really angry person has a cover of anonymity, won't s/he exploit that cover to the maximum extent possible? We see the problem now in Google reviews and other anonymous venues: you as the consumer simply have no way of knowing whether you are hearing the voices of fair-minded people. And what about the tendency of really angry consumers to be more vocal than satisfied ones? -  isn't there some statistic that says "Only one in ten satisfied customers will mention it to another person, but a dissatisfied customer will tell seven other people" (or something like that)?  Is a really angry person going to wait for that annual survey to come around in order to register her/his feelings? I doubt it.

I like Martin's idea better than the annual survey. One thing that has always made the Moodle community especially valuable for me is candor combined with a spirit of humility and good will - personified by Martin and others in the organization. The community wants and needs candor, certainly, but when a person expresses him/herself with ill will, that's a problem. In those rare cases, there need to be mechanisms for curtailing those expressions. We already have them, and can choose to use them. There's a reason communities maintain guidelines for civil discourse.

Lots of organizations send out surveys. I'd want something more personal for Moodle. Thanks.

Peter
 

 
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Picture of Marc Grober
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

Really, Peter?  Can you offer up some historical support for your claim that flamers will despoil Moodleland in their fury,  only to be held back by Saint Dooogie?  ROFL.  The reason communities impose "standards" is to be able to run out those that get underfoot, lol. What we really need is an internet mood rock that will keep you from posting while you are in an ill mood! There! Civility AND candor, lol.

What we need is an open community forum, and this could be acomplsihed by adding a forum for the sake of those who don;t want to be troubled by what may take place there, moderated by someone who is NOT in the pay of Moodle HQ or the MPs.

I would like to see DM take over such a forum as she has demonstrated remarkable restraint in both dealing with a rather clueless MP, not to mention the Lotus eaters at Lotus HQ.

 
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Picture of D M
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

@ Peter

I was gonna buy a new vacuum on Amazon.  It had 4.5 stars.  It had 300 5-star reviews and 3 1-star reviews.  

Clearly I decided that it must be total junk.

If only someone worked at Amazon that could have filtered those out for me... I am too stupid to make this consumer decision on my own especially since those 1-star fellas were sooo passionate.

Do you guys realize how ridiculous that sounds?

Arguments like this make it look like you are the ones with a clear "agenda" and have something to hide.

 

 
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Picture of Peter Seaman
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers

A couple observations:

  • Hosting is not a vacuum cleaner. The vacuum is manufactured to exacting specifications in a controlled environment.  Not only is it manufactured in a reliable way but consumers experience it in similar, reliable ways. Hosting is far more complex and has many more variables. Donna observed that clients are sometimes treated differently; the hosting service has hundreds of employees, each of whom has her/his own personality and approach; and you as client bring your own set of issues to the relationship.
  • You seem to be looking for some kind of impartial, unfiltered, authoritative source of info that would allow you to decide if you want to buy the service of a Moodle Partner. Let me just ask: Do you get that for other service providers? Do Blackboard, Desire2Learn, other commercial providers have such sources of info? You seem to want a kind of "Zagat's guide for Moodle hosting," but until we see it more broadly for providers of complex services, I don't think it's realistic to expect it for Moodle hosting.
  • I'm just one person, and I wouldn't be opposed to regular surveys, but they wouldn't solve the problem that you have caused. No one is opposed to criticism as long as it is done maturely and constructively and responsibly. What you seem to insist upon is your right to speak hyperbolically, unconstructively, and anonymously (though you've done a lot less of #1 and #2 lately - thank you; you still insist on remaining anonymous). Martin has already said he's open to a forum of constructive criticism about Moodle Partners, which says to me that he has nothing to hide. I think we should take him up on it.

Thanks.

Peter

 
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Picture of D M
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

A couple other observations:

1. A vacuum cleaner comes from a company.  That company has customer service, a support department, an RMA process, any many other non-hardware aspects.  These companies can have "hundreds of employees, each of whom has her/his own personality and approach; and you as a [customer] bring your own set of issues to the relationship."

Don't kid yourself.  Hosting providers are not immune.  They have an SLA that provides a benchmark of what is expected.  The SLA defines those "complex variables".

2. My current Moodle hosting provider was actually chosen by going through many open forums where I read both the good, the bad, and the nasty experiences of customers.  I made an informed decision based on that.  And as a results have so far experienced exceptional service.

7 years ago, I visited this website, saw no reviews, saw they were a Moodle Partner, and signed up... and as a result had a pretty negative experience.

As much as I love to go in circles, you can refer to my comment to Helen for your last point (which I never got a response to):

--

Respectfully, my extensive history with Remote Learner were "experiences".  So how many negative points are we allowed in regards to a Moodle Partner before it is considered "bashing"?

A statement such as "my current host addresses my stat ticket issue within 30 minutes, Remote Learner took almost a month" is a statement that would provide both a comparison and an experience... or would it be considered "bashing"?

I would be happy to rewrite my experiences in an outlined (non-emotionally charged) format for the benefit of other Moodlers.  I would even point out the positives, as I did in the now closed post.

--

If you think you are going to get a monotone unemotional sounding review from people who feel like they got shafted from their hosting provider, you clearly have not read many negative reviews.

You say "No one is opposed to criticism as long as it is done maturely and constructively and responsibly".  Actually, I think I can safely say that some of us think you're being dishonest in that statement and think that you do actually oppose criticism if it is not wrapped in complements.

 
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moi!!! it is what is is...
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

Please, guys, don't use metaphors. For me, it only confuses the issue, it is fishing with dynamite, kills everything and still muddies up the water. 

 
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Martin Dougiamas
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Moodle HQGroup Particularly helpful MoodlersGroup Testers

While I too would love to see complete data of this sort, the problem with a survey is that limiting it to actual clients only is a LOT of management overhead and privacy implications, and to make the statistics mean anything significant we would need to actually make it compulsory for all clients.  I don't know any other company who has attempted something quite like that.

But it's an interesting thought.  There may be other mechanisms like this that we can use to derive Partner reputations.  Keep thinking.

At the very least we should make a much clearer complaints system on moodle.com for clients to use.  (Many have contacted us that way in the past and these emails have triggered discussions between myself and the partner involved that seem to result in improvements).  

 
Average of ratings: -
moi!!! it is what is is...
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

That is interesting, Martin, but it also might indicate that the MP may not be communicating with  their clients in ways that convey full confidence in their relations. Or vice versa. Perhaps that is an area that can be considered. The last thing is Moodle.org should become a mediator between MPs and their clients.

 
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Picture of Marc Grober
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

Two observations:

1) The argument was made or a forum where hosting performance can be discussed.  Still waiting on an answer.

2) With respect to http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=212770 , one has to wonder at the value of the MP channel when MPs post such questions here...  or we can flip that on its head, and argue that it is refreshing to see an MP public acknowledge that Moodle has some disconcerting problems that may be impacting its ability to serve its customers.....

 
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Picture of Visvanath Ratnaweera
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers
Marc Grober wrote:
> 1) The argument was made or a forum where hosting performance can be discussed. Still waiting on an answer.

The "Hardware and Performance" forum https://moodle.org/mod/forum/view.php?id=596 has been
the traditional place to discuss hosting alternatives. Quote: "Advice on finding an internet hosting service also belongs here".

It is the result of the "organic growth" everybody is talking about these days, with which I'm not happy (I'm a co-moderator in H&P). Perhaps the restructuring happening here https://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=217481 would look into both: a) where hosting services should be discussed b) where to put the Moodle Partners.
 
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Me and da boys!
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

OK I agree a forum might be useful but it might be more useful to have a moodle partners survey at moodle.org that only current clients can subscribe to that rates moodle hosting, customization, support, time to issue resolution, etc in some sort of ‘useful to consumers’ matrix.

Having such a survey at moodle.org could allow that group to answer with some assurance of anonymity and allow moodle.com to post unbiased useful consumer feedback.

 
Average of ratings: -
Just wondering . . .
Re: Moodle Hosting
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers

I'm not sure that I agree E. L..

Nice idea in theory, but there is no such thing as an unbiased feedback in the scenario you suggest, and this could be a case where the supposed cure is worse than the illness.  I'm not sure anyone can quite work like the role you propose for Moodle.org.  Get a list of clients off a private company to survey them on the perfomance of the company?  MP are not franchises.

We get something here on the forums, we shake our networks when we need to to see what comes out, we phone people up and talk; things change, and a great supplier can have so many people move in the service decreases;  One tweak to a database/policy can change things over night.

My 2c worth.

 
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Me and da boys!
Re: Moodle Hosting
 

How about just a survey on moodle.com that is not linked anywhere and moodle partners send out the link to their client base? Beats having no intelligence gathering system.

 
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