Moodle in English: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

Summary of post: in the new course layhout, how are you supposed to navigate between non-adjacent sections?

Detail: I'll start a new thread here. My other thread was here: http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=208043 [Thanks Dan for the two gracious responses. I may follow this up, but I'm asking about what is to me a more significant matter below]

The original discussion on the new format was here: http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=200470 [I will maybe ask Helen. Once again a serious discussion that affects most Moodle teachers regularly about a new feature takes place. And it is buried in a forum. Maybe I missed something on Twitter, or maybe I should get an RSS feed to all Martin's posts?]

The new layout

We all know the problem of the SOD. As far as I can tell, this new layout (originally referred to as a new Course format), was to

Fix the SOD
Remove problems with the "Zoom" button (Which was accomplished by removing the zoom button)
?? there may be more

There is now a Course settings Format option (ie topic, weekly . . etc ) and Layout option (ie single section, all sections on one page). Layout choice is set at course settings level. You cannot choose in any way in any course design process. (I did not realise the significance of this until I read Itamars post in the thread above)

I've now had my first staff development and user feedback with 2.3.1 and the new layout. I think it is missing a vital aspect.

Using the new layout option

A single section layout looks like this:

The problem is this:

you can get forward and back
you can see the title of the section and the stuff in it
you can return to home (with potentially a lot of scrolling)\
you can see the persistant "Section zero"

But, how are you supposed to navigate between sections?

And is there a better option for locating the get back to index page than scroll and scroll in a big section.

Am I alone in thinking this could [and should] be improved??

-Derek

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Helen Foster發表於2012年 08月 10日(週五) 21:42

Hi Derek,

Thanks for your feedback on the new course layout in Moodle 2.3.

Regarding how to navigate between sections, apologies if I'm missing the point somehow, but can't you just use the links to the different sections in the navigation block?

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Derek Chirnside發表於2012年 08月 11日(週六) 16:19

If you do this Helen, with the new layout in 2.3, then yes, you achieve the aim of navigating to another section.

But frequently, when you do this, every time you need to scroll down on the Navigation menu to find the link. An alternative scroll of death.

I've checked it out this week with a group of staff in a workshop context. Was not well received. Still considering the best options.

-Derek

評比平均分數：Useful (1)

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Gareth J Barnard發表於2012年 08月 11日(週六) 22:09

Dear Derek,

What is your ideal solution to the problem? What would work best for your users?... Horizontal navigation block underneath the section? Voice controlled navigation? Grid of section links underneath section on the section pages just like the main page in the 'One section per page' option - imagined as if it had multiple columns?

I still think that what has been done is a good progression towards the Holy Grail of no SoD as the old 'show section x' functionality was confusing to some users. It is just a matter of understanding what would be the best solution and then technically implementing it.

Cheers,

Gareth

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Michael Penney發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 02:38

Many websites, CMS systems, other LMSs, some alternative course formats, and modules like Lesson and Book, do this with a left hand menu.

Indeed we have the Navigation menu, but it tries to do everything in one place, which ends up often being too much of a good thing - and resulting in needing to scroll and choose from a very large number of links.

Large numbers of links overload a regular users visual channel, resulting in the confusion & frustration of cognitive overload.

A menu with simply a link to each section would be a simple, uncluttered solution that would leave some space in a student's visual channel/working memory to spend on the course content. The links could highlight to let a student know what page she is currently on, and maybe even change color to let him know which pages he has already visited.

評比平均分數：Useful (1)

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Itamar Tzadok發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 03:03

See for instance http://substantialmethods.com/subject/view.php?id=11.

評比平均分數：Useful (3)

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Mary Cooch發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 03:14

Seems to me Itamar's sections course format would solve all these issues in an instant - why isn't it in the Moodle plugins? Is it one that comes as part of a purchased package?

Edit - see http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=200470#p874588 and also http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=200470#p875076

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Itamar Tzadok發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 04:03

No, it's not part of a purchased package. It just disagrees with some of the core design and implementation assumptions and requires a couple of hacks to allow for some of its features to work (e.g. all sections display, section navigation block). And I still need to find some time to restore "format memory" (user's last section display) which was lost in an interesting 2.3 core design decision.

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Gareth J Barnard發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 04:29

Dear Itamar,

If you need a technical solution to 'user's last section display' then you can always use Tim Hunt's user preference set and get, please see MDL-17084. It is really easy to use. If you want a working example, Collapsed Topics uses it in all Moodle 2+ versions instead of cookies.

Cheers,

Gareth

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Itamar Tzadok發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 05:01

Thanks Gareth. I don't need a technical solution (am already using user preference in various places) . I need time.

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Dan Poltawski發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 11:04

Hi Itamar,

Of course, core wonders if you could do it without relying on the 'unusual' core concepts.

I hope you will be able to participate in the planned course format extensions which hopefully will allow your plugin complete free reign of the course format. The course formats are currently quite hindered by a lot of legacy stuff. We need your input to make sure we get that right.

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Itamar Tzadok發表於2012年 08月 14日(週二) 05:03

Please don't get me wrong Dan. I like many of the core wonders and try as much as I can to rely my unusual concepts on them. I see and appreciate the effort put into these wonders for improving performance and infrastructure in general. And I learn quite a bit from this work. It is just that every so often there are some core design decisions pertaining or impacting front end usage that make some front end users (such as myself every so often) wonder. I will definitely help where I can.

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Derek Chirnside發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 04:03

Menu Block

Michael, there used to be several plugins for Moodle 1.9 that did this. For instance the left side menu block adapted by Glen Davies. This was a Block plus a slightly tweaked Format.

A temporary fix for the 2.3 layout

Gareth: You ask what I'd have done. As a short term cludge, probably I'd have left in the Jump to dropdown in. This is what it looked like in 2.2:

This is obviously not a good solution, as it still requires scrolling. Maybe put it in some better place.

At the risk of sounding like a cracked record, I think this sort of navigation needs to be at the top (maybe in section zero).

The zoom

Re the 1.9/2.2 zoom link that Dan tell me people had problems with. This is the age old question of icons vs text. A tiny link with text at the top of the single section view "Show all sections" might have helped. You don't have the same room for text on every section saying "Show one section" so stick with the icon. The problem is the purists say you don't have text + icon for the same function. I think the purists are too pure. Google has this challenge also.

The navigation menu

I agree with Michael. It's like everything plus the kitchen sink. I have found that students tend to think in the context of a course. What have others found?

The navigation bar is set up (according to my preferences) with too much in it and some unusual divisions of material. The tiny hide/show icon has all the problems of the zoom box: users don't notice it.

I guess in summary I'm looking for simpler course section to section navigation. And less having to scroll.

Cheers,

-Derek

Edit:

I've just had a look at the Substantial methods link. Putting a drop down top middle is a short tem solution to the problems.

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Gareth J Barnard發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 04:37

Dear Derek,

Thank you - as a programmer it can be sometimes difficult to see the wood for the trees even though I'm an educator too.

The drop down you mention and that Itamar has is not rocket science to code and could be easily incorporated into the top of the 'One section per page' mode of all course format's using the 'renderer.php' inheritance that Dan Poltawski has done in core.

Cheers,

Gareth

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Derek Chirnside發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 06:39

My last post for the morning.

Gareth, you say: "Thank you - as a programmer it can be sometimes difficult to see the wood for the trees even though I'm an educator too"

As an educator or programmer, it can be hard to see things from the point of view of the USER. You actually have to take the time to watch and ask. I learned this at several Moodle meetings a few years back. I'd be doing a workshop, and often the topic of navigation came up. There would sometimes be two groups. "I don't have any trouble" and "I hate it". Often it was those who had an alternative format (like our menu) [or the hand coded menu in section 1 or the hand coded HTML block] vs those who had the scroll of death and nothing. I was actually quite proud of the final solution we had at the UC, and it is in use with lots of installs. The problem comes when you have use to it elsewhere, and you don't realise it is non-standard Moodle.

One solution I'd really like: my current IDEAL given all the various constrainst we have.

Two navs: between sections, and within a section

I find there is a balance between power/flexibility and the amount of information you need to explain. What I describe here is my (current) ideal option. It's not very web 2 like.

Section navigation vertical at the left. (Below, green)
Inside section navigation horizontal in the middle. (below, pink)

This is from the old system we used to have (Learning Loop from Norway c 2001 > Latte (learning and teaching environment) c 2003 > Interact. Now not supported)

We had an option for any section Navigation mode ON. This took the items in the section and arranged them in a horizontal navigation list at the top of the section.

One advantage: very simple built in page navigation (ie when using Moodle pages). Pages really took the plave of labels in current Moodle.
We had no right blocks.
I never had to tll people how to navigate.
There are no odd icons.
It's pretty standard (dare I say boring).
You just had to keep your item names short.
There is the balance between number of sections and section size.
All navigation is available without scrolling unless you have a really big number of sections.

In some respects, this is why we made the effort to adapt a menu block when we shifted Interact and Bl;ackboard > Moodle. The closest current Moodle component is the Sections block, which has just numbers in the navigation. I cannot see a practical use for this without some section names.

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Gareth J Barnard發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 06:52

Dear Derek,

Indeed I do say, which is why I did ask above ...

"You actually have to take the time to watch and ask"

When I was woking as an eLearning Coordinator that is exactly what happened and hence Collapsed Topics was born.

So in essance you want the 'Horizontal Navigation' option I mentioned in a previous post?

Cheers,

Gareth

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Kris Stokking發表於2012年 08月 14日(週二) 22:24

Derek and others, you may want to have a look at the Flexpage Course Format that Moodlerooms just released, specifically around the flexable menuing and navigational features:

Hierarchal flexpages can be created with parent/child relationships. For example, instructors can create flexpages for chapters, and have related materials and supplementary activities located on separate pages but grouped within the same "tree".
Flexpages feature a menubar with previous, next, and a jump-to drop down list.
Instructors can create multiple in-course menus and define which flexpages are available in them.

The format is not available for 2.3 (yet!) but it would be great to hear feedback on whether or not the features hit the mark.

Regarding the SoD in the Navigation block, I think a very easy improvement to the in-course navigation would be to simply break out that navigation from the My Courses tree into its own tree. That way users can easily navigate within the course as well as between courses, but aren't hit with too much information with large course lists.

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Mary Cooch發表於2012年 08月 15日(週三) 00:21

The issue with the Flexpage Course Format (and other contributed course formats) is just that - that they are contributed - and not all institutions are able easily to add contributed course formats, and so we rely on having a satisfactory solution as core. As an example, my school is part of an educational authority of hundreds of other schools and do not have control over which modules we have. So I think it is vital we have something that everyone is happy with in core - and I think that what we have now (showing only one section), combined with Itamar's dropdown is a good idea personally.

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Michael Penney發表於2012年 08月 15日(週三) 00:54

A big problem with flexpage is that it has always been student focused - a way for instructional designers to build courses that are really easy for students to navigate. The forums don't get many inputs from students about design here.*

Flexpage has always been harder for regular teachers to use it to build courses with - and its a real challenge to find an interface easy enough for non-technical teachers to use at the same time as enabling the design of courses that are real easy for student's to navigate.

* As a maybe interesting historical note - much of the original design of Flexpage resulted from a project with Intel Education - for the Intel Teach project. Intel Teach was teaching teachers how to use technology in the classroom effectively, so in that case the students were teachers, and Intel Education was very concerned with making the courses easy to navigate; student feedback was a major factor in the design process .

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Michael Penney發表於2012年 08月 15日(週三) 00:42

Yes- many of the concerns raised here about Moodle navigation were the same ones raised by the Instructional Design Team at Intel Education back in 2007 - mostly fixed with Flexpage.

Looking forward to the 2.3 version.

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Itamar Tzadok發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 06:21

Putting a drop down top middle is a short tem solution to the problems.

The format allows you to put the dropdown either top or bottom or both or none. (See illustration for both)

評比平均分數：Useful (1)

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Gareth J Barnard發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 06:33

ETA?

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Derek Chirnside發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 06:44

Very impressive Itamar.

-Derek

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Emma Richardson發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 03:40

I tend to agree with this. I would be much more prone to use the section per page layout if there was a section listing somehow included whatever section you are in. The navigation bar can be a little much. Perhaps a simple links bar/list embedded in the 0 section would work?

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Mary Cooch發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 03:53

I like this:

評比平均分數：Useful (1)

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Derek Chirnside發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 04:26

I agree with you Mary. I'd also like a few extra links in this menu block and maybe a little formatting, like indenting the section links slightly. My suggestion from yesterday I posted here: http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=208795#p910405

Something like this:

PHYSICS 101
Index page
Introduction
Motion
Light
Electricity
Assessment
Administration
Sample Quizzes

SHOW ALL
PARTICIPANTS
GRADES
FORUMS

"The links come from the section names". When we were working on this a few years ago we tried a lot of expressions to reduce long section names to shorter links so they read well, and never took more than two lines. It became a habit that you choose short names. With the new section design (Name plus Summary) it is less of a problem: use the index page to get the feel for what is there, but use the shorter section names in the navigation.

At present I'm back to exactly the same as the 1.9/2.2 cludge: manually creating a set of links in the section zero to provide some navigation. Unless of course I can afford to install an alternative format. Die, Scroll of Death.

Nice to have this little chat here. Are we wasting our time I wonder?

-Derek

評比平均分數：Useful (1)

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Itamar Tzadok發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 05:41

I'd also like a few extra links in this menu block and maybe a little formatting, like indenting the section links slightly.

Already built for hierarchy, and non-section labels and linked labels (e.g. 'Sandbox' and 'Sections format demo' respectively below).

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Martin Dougiamas發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 15:26

"Are we wasting our time I wonder? "

Definitely not, Derek. In fact I'm very glad to see the increase in interest in designing course formats. The original weeks+topics ones were really only quick versions that I did and I expected to see a lot more alternatives created a long time ago.

What's happening from HQ side:

You'll see in the Roadmap we have "Course formats refactoring", almost definitely happening in 2.4. This is primarily about improving the course formats to make them able to easily take over the whole page, define their own settings and so on. This will give plugin authors like Itamar everything they need to produce 100% pluggable course formats that do exactly what various users want and hopefully we'll get some of those in core after normal review.
The current week/topic formats are tied up with backward-compatibility issues and it can be really difficult to see how they should evolve so that a) they remain useful, b) they don't get too confusing and c) they don't break courses during upgrade and d) their own design is self-consistent. For example, adding features to the non-paged view to make it more like the paged view means there is basically no difference between them. Some of the custom ideas rely on things like "short section names" which we can not enforce in core. And so on. However, we are looking at this and trying to solve the issues. Thanks for the reflection and ideas!

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Derek Chirnside發表於2012年 08月 16日(週四) 13:22

Martin, you say "You'll see in the Roadmap we have "Course formats refactoring", almost definitely happening in 2.4"

Cool. Who is working on this and where is the conversation about it? I have created a page here to bring together some of my scattered thoughts.

http://docs.moodle.org/dev/Roadmap/Course_formats_refactoring

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Martin Dougiamas發表於2012年 08月 22日(週三) 12:56

None of what you've written there is part of the course format refactoring in 2.4, which is more about giving course formats more freedom.

Roughly, it's this: http://docs.moodle.org/dev/Paged_course_formats#Course_format_refactoring

Marina Glancy is going to be working on this, and will update us with a more detailed spec soon.

As for improvements in the current course formats (which is what we are discussing here) ... the 2.4 timeframe will be more about bug fixes than major changes.

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Joshua Bragg發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 05:46

That can basically already be done with the current navigation block. In the configuration page for the navigation block change the "Generate navigation for the following" option to "Categories, courses, and course structures." It doesn't link to sections unless you're using the 1 section per page option. On the other hand if you are using the 1 section per page then it works great. See below:

navigation

When I moved to Moodle 2.2 from 1.9 I decided I despised the navigation block since it made such a long list. With that change it becomes much more manageable.

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Derek Chirnside發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 06:42

Point taken Josh, but if you have a few more courses in there, you can be scrolling down EVERY time you want to go to another section. Just an alternative SOD.

-Derek

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Gareth J Barnard發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 08:02

The thought just hit me that the SoD is not just a Moodle thing but a whole computing thing, as otherwise why would mice have 'scroll wheels'? So what we need is a means of the computer detecting what you only want to see and applying an 'information filter' to sift out what is required. So perhaps, to turn this on it's head courses need to be designed with more conditional activities / resources to present the user with a more personalised learning experience. And past activities / resources placed in a separate 'revision' section once learnt.

Cheers,

Gareth

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Michael Penney發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 21:09

The main problem isn't that one needs to scroll, it's that the average person can only pay attention to a few visual elements at one time. When there are say 10 sections of a course, each one with a dozen or so links, a student's visual channel gets overwhelmed and it takes a good deal of work to figure out what is the important thing to pay attention to right now.

Each page view is a teachable moment - a point in time when you have the student's attention. Filling that moment with dozens of links to other things reduces the amount of attention a student can pay any one thing on the screen.

It's somewhat as if in a face to face class, the teacher wrote the entire couse syllabus and the student's class schedule on the blackboard every day, and then asked them to focus on the lesson.

評比平均分數：Useful (1)

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Martin Dougiamas發表於2012年 08月 13日(週一) 15:29

Indeed the main idea in 2.3 was that navigation should be used for navigation, but I do take your point that it can still be painful with a long course list.

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Gareth J Barnard發表於2012年 08月 14日(週二) 17:14

Dear Itamar,

The drop down section change looks really good, would you object if I had a bash at implementing it both in my format and as a patch for core for the 'One section per page' mode?

Cheers,

Gareth

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Itamar Tzadok發表於2012年 08月 14日(週二) 22:39

Why would I? Go ahead and add it. The whole idea of sharing the concepts of my work even if the code is not yet releasable is to allow other contributors to use these concepts for enhancing their contributions where applicable.

評比平均分數： -

Re: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Gareth J Barnard發表於2012年 08月 16日(週四) 05:23

Dear all,

I've had a go at reimplementing the 'Jump To...' menu for both the 'Topics' and 'Weeks' format and I think I have suceeded. It utilises the generic 'section' link parameter that Dan introduced.

I have raised MDL-34917 - which contains links to my code.

Feedback appreciated.

Cheers,

Gareth

評比平均分數： -

Svar: Reflections on the new Course "Layout" for 2.3+

由Peter Liljedahl發表於2012年 08月 28日(週二) 14:55

Picture of Course Menu

We use Course Menu for Navigation. This block can also have chapters and other functions. In many of our new courses we hide the Navigation block and use Course Menu instead.

評比平均分數： -