Crosslisting courses between Moodle sites

Re: Why use several Moodle servers?

by Timothy Takemoto -
Number of replies: 6

Dear Zbigniew,

I tried to install the code crosslisting code, Thank you!

but I had two problems.

1) I realised part of the way through that not only do I need two 1.5 moodles. I only have 1.5 Moodle, the others are still only 1.4.1, and when I tried to bring those three files up to date I hit sesskey() errors. More hacking would be required. 

2) I realised that students would have to be enrolled onto both Moodles. I am looking for a way of allowing students to enrol onto only their own moodle installation and their forum posts to be piped to another moodle without their being the need to enroll in the "other" Moodle. This is essential. The cross-site security would have to be left to the cross-site password.

I think that you have covered the reasons for cross-lising courses. I agree. It is mainly a university politics thing, but I can see reasons why moodle's proliferate within an institution even if it were better if there were only one.

As for Cross Site listiing of "2p2" Forums
I am excited about the possibility of having forums on mulitple moodles, because I would like to give my students the chance to communicate with students in other classes in other countries. This is useful in both language classes, where Japanese and Finns might speak to each other in English, perhaps, and in content classes, where Japanese and Americans might speak to each other about views of the atomic bombings perhaps.

A p2p moodle-to-moodle interconnectivity would be useful because:

1) Login Method. I use my university's IMAP server to log in. This is important. I find that there are always problems with manual registration of students. Visitor students cannot use my university's IMAP sever, and our university's IMAP server will not be connected to another university.  

2) Personal Information Security. I don't want to allow other students to log in to our university's server because of personal information concerns.  I would want to limit "outside" user access to a part of the site, such as one or two forums.

3) Grade Administration. Particularly, I want to be able to grade my own students for their contributions to the forum, and presumably the other teacher would want to do the same, without the other teacher having access to the grades I have given my students and vice versa. Ideally the grades button would be appear only below students from my moodle. Also if the visitors were to take tests on my moodle then I would have the problem of sorting their grades from the gradebook.

4) Copyright. Sometimes I use copyright images and words on my moodle sites, on what i see as being a basis of fair use, within the classroom. If there are students from other classrooms joining in it becomes more difficult to argue that the moodle homepage is within the classroom, and more difficult to ensure that the copyright materials are not copied and used elsewhere.

5) Disciplining. It is difficult to foresee what can go wrong with a participants behaviour on a moodle course site but if they are ones own students then one can discipline/control/administer them quite easily. It would be more of a headache if those students were from another country.

6) Language. My moodles are generally set in Japanese (recently UTF-8) to make them easy for my students to use. There are Japanese course names and Japanese labels. The latter at least would be gibberish to any visitors. Additionally, I send posts to my students in Japanese. If the visitors were enrolled on my moodle then either they would be recieving gibberish (as far as they are concerned) or I would not be able to post to my students in japanese, or I would have to enrol them in another course to communicate.

Perhaps I will be able to pay Jamie to make improvements to your cross site listing to allow students to post without being logged in.

Timothy

In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: Why use several Moodle servers?

by Zbigniew Fiedorowicz -
Hi Timothy,

1) I realised part of the way through that not only do I need two 1.5 moodles. I only have 1.5 Moodle, the others are still only 1.4.1, and when I tried to bring those three files up to date I hit sesskey() errors. More hacking would be required.

No, you don't need to have 1.5. My testing setup for this code has a Moodle 1.5 server communicating with a 1.4.3. The very minor edits you need to make in 3 version 1.4.3 scripts are shown here:
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/moodle/moodle/course/view.php?r1=1.82&r2=1.83
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/moodle/moodle/login/index.php?r1=1.63&r2=1.64
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/moodle/moodle/mod/resource/type/file/resource.class.php?r1=1.23&r2=1.25

2) I realised that students would have to be enrolled onto both Moodles. I am looking for a way of allowing students to enrol onto only their own moodle installation and their forum posts to be piped to another moodle without their being the need to enroll in the "other" Moodle. This is essential. The cross-site security would have to be left to the cross-site password.

A very minor edit to my scripts will remove the need for authenticating their passwords. Change the lines:

$hashdata = $USER->username . $clicktime . $accessCode[$authindex] . $USER->password;
$hashdata = $user->username . $clicktime . $accessCode[$authindex] . $user->password;
to
$hashdata = $USER->username . $clicktime . $accessCode[$authindex];
$hashdata = $user->username . $clicktime . $accessCode[$authindex];
respectively.
In reply to Zbigniew Fiedorowicz

Re: Why use several Moodle servers?

by Zbigniew Fiedorowicz -
For some reason I can't edit my previous post and part of it was deleted.

Although you don't need to have visiting students from other sites to have regular accounts on your system, they will have to have some kind of user accounts. You can use the uploaduser script to import them into your system and assign them an unguessable password and disable their email. That way the only way they can enter your site is via the crosslisting code.

Lastly I just noticed Martin made a minor improvement to my code, so you should make the edits indicated in
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/moodle/moodle/mod/resource/type/file/resource.class.php?r1=1.23&r2=1.26
instead of the link above.
In reply to Zbigniew Fiedorowicz

Re: Why use several Moodle servers?

by Zbigniew Fiedorowicz -
A further thought.  You could assign the visiting students to a separate group within your course and use group mode to impose appropriate restrictions on them.  If that doesn't accomplish precisely what you want, it would likely be worthwhile to enhance group mode functionality, rather than writing special code for the case of crosslisted students, as that would likely be more generally applicable.
In reply to Zbigniew Fiedorowicz

Re: Why use several Moodle servers?

by Timothy Takemoto -

Dear Zbigniew,

I have 1.4.1 so I would have to do somethign about sesskey() (that started with 1.4.3) too. But I will upgrading to 1.5 sometime today.

I have also been thinking and forsee some other problems.

1) Is it true that for any one resource, the links only go in one direction? In other words (unlike perhaps the double link sharer mentioned below) there is no forum on the visitor course for the visitor teacher to mark. My guess is that the visitor teacher will also want to mark the forum in their course. My students would thus be "visitors" on the other course. Hence your suggestion of a sort of lower privelidge visitor-group, is not really what I am looking for.

2) I think that creating student accounts for students in another course might be quite difficult. It would be great if the users stay inside their own moodle, but the moodles talk to each other such that the posts appear in both Moodles (except perhaps without a link to visitors profile, or the ability to mark). 

I first posted about using the notion of "trackback" (like blogs) or RSS,  but I was really thinking of a forum that I created to allow my students at Kurume Unviersity talk with students in an American Air Force Academy in New York State, USA, about the merits or otherwise of the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I hacked a free perl message board, doubling the entry pages, such that there were English and Japanese pages both posting to the same database. Students of both countries wrote their articles in English, but the forms and words like "post," "edit" and "preview" where in different languages depending upon the point of entry.  That was the sort of thing I had in mind. Perhaps a better analogy would be siamese twin Moodles that share a organ, or part of their database.

Dear Zbigneiew, please do not put your self to more trouble to provide this sort of functionality. It is quite beyond what you had in mind. I should be paying someone to do it. Jamie Pratt has already offered, and if I had some more money I would be taking it up with him.

Timothy

In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: Why use several Moodle servers?

by Zbigniew Fiedorowicz -
I have 1.4.1 so I would have to do somethign about sesskey() (that started with 1.4.3) too. But I will upgrading to 1.5 sometime today.

No, you could make the indicated changes in 1.4.1 scripts.  There is no need to make sesskey() changes (except to secure your Moodle against things like the Santy worm and similar nasties).

1) Is it true that for any one resource, the links only go in one direction? In other words (unlike perhaps the double link sharer mentioned below) there is no forum on the visitor course for the visitor teacher to mark. My guess is that the visitor teacher will also want to mark the forum in their course. My students would thus be "visitors" on the other course. Hence your suggestion of a sort of lower privelidge visitor-group, is not really what I am looking for.

I think group-mode (perhaps with some enhancements) could be used to achieve this.  If there were not too many students, the visiting teacher could manually import grades into his/her own site, perhaps into an offline assignment or into one of the gradebook enhancements on their own site.  Or a script could be written to automate this process.

2) I think that creating student accounts for students in another course might be quite difficult. It would be great if the users stay inside their own moodle, but the moodles talk to each other such that the posts appear in both Moodles (except perhaps without a link to visitors profile, or the ability to mark).

This would be much more difficult and would require major changes in the Moodle core code.  And you would need to constantly revise your code to keep up with Moodle version upgrades.

In reply to Zbigniew Fiedorowicz

Re: Why use several Moodle servers?

by Timothy Takemoto -

Dear Zbigniew

I have uploaded to 1.5, yeah.

Bearing in mind that I am thinking about a lot of students, I think that I will have to wait, or pay for, the major revisions to the moodle core, so that forums can share a backend or database.

Thanks for all your work on this.

Timothy