Multichoice Multianswer - Jump Issue

Multichoice Multianswer - Jump Issue

by Ken Gibson -
Number of replies: 18

Background:
- Moodle 1.9.4 (Build: 20090128)
- Made 100+ lessons - all working fine

Issue:
Trying to add a Multichoice Multianswer question where students can select "all that apply"  - and then are navigated to the next page (regardless of response or number of responses).  The Lesson is non-graded.  All other question types are working fine.

Question Example:
Which of the following provisions would the order include? Check all that apply.

A.  Choice 1
B.  Choice 2
C.  Choice 3
D.  All

Students can select A,B,C,D or any combination.  There is NO wrong answer here (just collecting student input).  Regardless of what they pick - I want them to go to the next page.

The jumps in settings look like this:

Answer 1: Choice 1
Jump 1:     Next page

Answer 2: Choice 2
Jump 2:     Next page

Answer 3: Choice 3
Jump 3:     Next page

Answer 4: All
Jump 4:     Next page

If I select this question type as ONLY Multichoice (single answer) everything works fine, with students being able to select a single respose and going to the next page. 

If I select Multichoice Multianswer, then students can select one or all the answers, but then the navigation sends them back to this page (not the next page).  That is is the issue.

Is there a way to have a Multichoice Multianswer format jump to the correct page when a "select all that apply" question is used?

Ken 






Average of ratings: -
In reply to Ken Gibson

Re: Multichoice Multianswer - Jump Issue

by Joseph Rézeau -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

Hi Ken,

Using latest Moodle 1.9.14+ (Build: 20111012), your scenario works fine.

There are so many settings that may affect a Lesson, however, that it's not possible to test your problem if you don't provide ALL of your lesson settings.

May I say that the example of choices you provide does not sound right in the context of multiple choice with multiple answers option. If you want the students to select one or more or all choices, then there is no need for Answer 4.

Joseph

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Multichoice Multianswer - Jump Issue

by Ken Gibson -

Hey Joseph,

>>>There are so many settings that may affect a Lesson, however, that it's not possible to test your problem if you don't provide ALL of your lesson settings.

Here are all the settings:

Grade options
Practice lesson: NO
Custom scoring:NO
Maximum grade:0
Student can re-take:YES
Handling of re-takes:Use Max
Display ongoing score:NO
 
Flow control
Allow student review:NO
Display review button:NO
Maximum number of attempts:10
Action after correct answer:Normal
Display default feedback:NO
Minimum number of questions:0
Number of pages (cards) to show:0
 
Lesson formatting
Slide Show:YES
Slide show width: 640
Slide show height: 480
Slide show background color:#FFFFFF
Display left menu:NO
Display left menu only if grade greater than:0%
Progress Bar:NO
 
Access control
Password protected lesson:NO

Dependent on
Dependent on:NONE

Other
Link to an activity:NONE
Number of high scores displayed:10
Use this lesson's settings as defaults:NO

Common module settings
Visible:SHOW

>>>>May I say that the example of choices you provide does not sound right in the context of multiple choice with multiple answers option. If you want the students to select one or more or all choices, then there is no need for Answer 4.

Answer 4 is there simply so that students don't have to check answers 1,2,3 if they want to select all the options.

I believe the issue actually goes back to the fact that is is a NON_GRADED lesson (see settings above).  Because of this, I don't have the option of tell the Multichoice Multianswer question which is the "right" answer(s) and which are wrong.  Here is a screen shot:

 

The answer is that without scoring enabled for this lesson - all the above  choices must be selected to advance to the next page.

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Ken Gibson

Re: Multichoice Multianswer - Jump Issue

by Joseph Rézeau -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

Hi Ken,

Thanks for providing all of your Lesson details. When I tried out your scenario, since I did not have all the settings, I had left my Lesson's Maximum number of attempts: at default value "1".

So, of course, it did not matter that students checked one or all of the check boxes, they were automatically taken to the next page.

When I look at your lesson settings, I see: Maximum grade:0. This means that you are not interested in grading that lesson. You just want the students to go through the various pages, not to get a score. If that is what you want, then just set Maximum number of attempts: 1. and the students will move from your Multiple Choice, multiple answers page to the following page without any problem.

Oh, and you should also Practice lesson: NO  to avoid a "zero" score to show up in the students' Gradebook.

Hope that helps.

Joseph

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Ken Gibson

Re: Multichoice Multianswer - Jump Issue

by Chris Collman -
Picture of Documentation writers

Hi Ken,

Did you check MoodleDocs 1.9. or perhaps click on the help button next to the multianswer check box?

Basically they have to select all the correct answers.   They have not selected all the correct answers when they select justy one of the answers.    Evidently the program says that unless you tell it what to do when they miss one, they will go back to "This page".  

All correct answers must have the same jump and All wrong answers must have the same jump. Thus some clever developer put in some code that says "if you are confuzeled by the teacher's jumps, put the student back on the same page."   Thus the program could not find a wrong answer and was confuzeled.

That is my guess.   So I assume you uncheck the multianswer box?

 

Chris

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Chris Collman

Re: Multichoice Multianswer - Jump Issue

by Ken Gibson -

Hey Chris,

>>>"if you are confuzeled by the teacher's jumps, put the student back on the same page."

You are right.  In further testing (see screen grabs I posted),  If I select all 4 options (Answer 1,2,34) it will get to the next slide.  The issue is that without turning grading on for the lesson, I have no way to tell the lesson which is the "right" answer(s) and which are "wrong".

Ken

 



Average of ratings: -
In reply to Ken Gibson

Re: Multichoice Multianswer - Jump Issue

by Chris Collman -
Picture of Documentation writers

I have a workaround smile

I seem to remember that  when custom scoring is turned off, jumps that go back in the edit order or stay on the same page are scored as wrong answers and pages that advance in the edit order are correct answers.  Even though "grading is turned off", this logic probably rules.

So say you have pages A B Z X D .  When someone hits B they jump to X.  When they leave X they jump to Z, when they leave Z they go to D.   Now Lesson knows they missed the question smile   Of course, did some clever developer program Lesson "If you are confuzeled and can not find a correct answer...go to End of Lesson " to destroy this bit of logic ? [Attempt at humor there]

Chris

 

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Chris Collman

Re: Multichoice Multianswer - Jump Issue

by Ken Gibson -

Hey Chris,

>>>>I seem to remember that  when custom scoring is turned off, jumps that go back in the edit order or stay on the same page are scored as wrong answers and pages that advance in the edit order are correct answers.  Even though "grading is turned off", this logic probably rules.


I may not be understanding this correctly, but I tried this (again - using my problem slide listed above).

Before (the slide with questions is #17).....

BEFORE:

Answer A -> Jump to NEXT
Answer B -> Jump to NEXT
Answer C -> Jump to NEXT
Answer D -> Jump to NEXT

With scoring turned off for this lesson, I have to select all 4 answers to progress to the NEXT slide (slide#18) - otherwise redirected back to slide #17.

AFTER:

Answer A -> Jump to slide#18
Answer B -> Jump to slide#18
Answer C -> Jump to slide#18
Answer D -> Jump to slide#18

Result - same as above.  No going to slide #18 unless ALL answers are picked.
Chris - assuming here that "and pages that advance in the edit order are correct answers"  is slide #18 - or am I missing something? 

 

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Ken Gibson

Re: Multichoice Multianswer - Jump Issue

by Chris Collman -
Picture of Documentation writers

Hi Ken,

I am saying to insert a slide between #16 and #17 and I will call this  content page #16b.  So now you have #16, #16b, #17 and #18.   In #16 you want to make sure any "Next page" jumps say #17 and avoid #16b.    #16b  says something like "Thanks for your answer".  It has one Description "Continue" and it's jump is set to #18. In #17, all jumps go to #16b.  

In the two ways you outlined at 06:53 PM, amount to the same thing (my best guess) to the Lesson Logic.  My theory says it needs at least one wrong answer or a wrong answer defaults to "this page".  My theory says it does not really care if it does not have a right answer as one of the selections. When any answer is wrong, it will go to where all the wrong answers point to (remember in a 1.9 multi answer all right answers must go to the same place, ditto wrong answers).

Multianswer knows that when all answers are marked as correct (advance in the edit order), all must be chosen by the student for it to be correct.   So in your example it is being very logical.  Just not doing what you want it to do.  My solution says all answers are not correct because they go back in the edit order, so the jump works.  

Hope this helps.  Chris

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Chris Collman

Re: Multichoice Multianswer - Jump Issue

by Ken Gibson -

Hey Chris,

 

>>>I am saying to insert a slide between #16 and #17 and I will call this  content page #16b.  So now you have #16, #16b, #17 and #18.   In #16 you want to make sure any "Next page" jumps say #17 and avoid #16b.    #16b  says something like "Thanks for your answer".  It has one Description "Continue" and it's jump is set to #18. In #17, all jumps go to #16b.  

In the two ways you outlined at 06:53 PM, amount to the same thing (my best guess) to the Lesson Logic.  My theory says it needs at least one wrong answer or a wrong answer defaults to "this page".  My theory says it does not really care if it does not have a right answer as one of the selections. When any answer is wrong, it will go to where all the wrong answers point to (remember in a 1.9 multi answer all right answers must go to the same place, ditto wrong answers).

Multianswer knows that when all answers are marked as correct (advance in the edit order), all must be chosen by the student for it to be correct.   So in your example it is being very logical.  Just not doing what you want it to do.  My solution says all answers are not correct because they go back in the edit order, so the jump works.  

Hope this helps.  Chris

THAT DID IT!
I added a slide 16B and now after the multanswer questions are selected we get jumped to 16b - from there I can then have a jump to slide 18 and we are good.  So to summarize:

Doesn't Work:
In Slide 17 (multianswer multichoice)

Answer A->jump to Slide 18
Answer B->jump to Slide 18
Answer C->jump to Slide 18
Answer D->jump to Slide 18

Unless all answers are selected we a always "jumped" back to Slide 17 - so we can't advance

Works:
In Slide 17 (multianswer multichoice)

Answer A->jump to Slide 16b
Answer B->jump to Slide 16b
Answer C->jump to Slide 16b
Answer D->jump to Slide 1b

We are "correctly" jumped to slide 16b, regardless of what is seleceted (as Chris explains above).

Thanks for the help on this!

Ken big grin

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Ken Gibson

Re: Multichoice Multianswer - Jump Issue

by Lynn Scarlet Clark -

Hi,

I know this isn't the solution you're specifically after - and not an 'ideal' solution, but I have a left-of-centre option for you.  This entirely depends though on whether you want your question result recorded. If you want your students to get a score this won't work, but you do not care if your students get a score you could try dumping the idea of a question page and put a simple branch page in, using javascript for the question answer jumps.

Javascript can create the radio (or normal) buttons next to the questions (it will look pretty similar to the question page version) and you can link directly to the next page whatever selection they choose. You could also have an inbetween branch page which will give the explanatory answer before moving on to the next page 'proper'. A version would also be to hide/show the answer when they select an option and just let them progess normally anyway.

It may stop you pulling your hair out trying to get the multichoice page to behave exactly as you'd like it to.

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Lynn Scarlet Clark

Re: Multichoice Multianswer - Jump Issue

by Joseph Rézeau -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

Hi Scarlet,

If Ken does not care about his students getting a score for that Lesson, the solution I suggested in my post dated Friday, 21 October 2011, 09:40 AM should work. i.e. setting  Maximum number of attempts: 1.

Joseph

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Multichoice Multianswer - Jump Issue

by Ken Gibson -

Hey Joseph,

>> If Ken does not care about his students getting a score for that Lesson, the solution I suggested in my post dated Friday, 21 October 2011, 09:40 AM should work. i.e. setting  Maximum number of attempts: 1.

I set the max attepmts to 1 and the behavior is unchanged (still being sent back to same slide unless all answers are selected).

Ken

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Ken Gibson

Re: Multichoice Multianswer - Jump Issue

by Joseph Rézeau -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

Hi Ken,

Do all of your choices point to "Next page"? Are you logged in as student?

Joseph

Attachment 21-10-2011 22-42-48.jpg
Average of ratings: -
In reply to Joseph Rézeau

Re: Multichoice Multianswer - Jump Issue

by Ken Gibson -

>>>Are you logged in as student?

Ah ha....that was the issue (was logged in as admin and previewing).  When I changed to student your settings work.  And yes - all jumps are directed to Next Page.

Also - the workaround that chris posted still works as well.

Ken

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Ken Gibson

Re: Multichoice Multianswer - Jump Issue

by Joseph Rézeau -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

Yes, we always have to remember to login as student if we really want to see what the student sees.wink

Joseph

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Lynn Scarlet Clark

Re: Multichoice Multianswer - Jump Issue

by Ken Gibson -

Hey Scarlet - thanks for the suggestion, but chris's work around is just what I needed.  Ken

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Ken Gibson

Re: Multichoice Multianswer - Jump Issue

by Chris Collman -
Picture of Documentation writers

Hi Ken,

Joeseph also has a good solution, that does not require adding fancy branching smile     Of course if you want to allow them more than one attempt on the other questions, then you will have to be fancy.  

To gather opinions, we use the questionnaire module (excellent contributed code) in our 1.9 and 2.1 Moodles.  We started using it in 1.5.3.

Chris

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Chris Collman

Re: Multichoice Multianswer - Jump Issue

by Ken Gibson -

Hey Chris,

Thanks again for the feedback and help.
We too use the questionnaire module, but in this instance I needed to have a "questionnaire like" section buried within a Lesson.

Ken

Average of ratings: -