User Interface design in OSS

User Interface design in OSS

by David Kelly -
Number of replies: 32

Here are links to a few thought provoking articles about the situation with Interface Design in OSS projects. They touch on many of the issues raised in this previous thread and may provide deeper insight into a few.... in posting these links here its not my intention to offend, annoy or unduly complicate anyones lives, just to shed some light on something I feel is important for the F/OSS community as a whole, and especially Moodle which I rate highly, just as it is.

I hope they provide a good backdrop to further debate here about possibilities for future Open User Interface development... above all, how to make it really happen for Moodle where it is needed.... can we take this knowledge and forge a practical approach from it?

 The Usability of Open Source Software David M. Nichols and Michael B. Twidale

 Shall we Dance? Ten Lessons Learned from Netscape's Flirtation with Open Source UI
Development  Peter Trudelle

 Usable GUI Design: A Quick Guide for F/OSS Developers  Benjamin Roe

 Fundamental issues with open source software development  Michelle Levesque

Why free software usability tends to.....  Matthew Thomas

Dave

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In reply to David Kelly

Re: User Interface design in OSS

by W Page -
Hi David!

This thread may also be helpful in this discussion.

Martin D - Please can we have a Usability Forum??
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=17233

WP1
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In reply to W Page

Re: User Interface design in OSS

by Samuli Karevaara -
Okay, one more on this...

W Page, in a link that David Kelly provided, named "Ten Lessons Learned from Netscape's Flirtation with Open Source UI Development" it is said:
"Don't create a UI Design Component
One of the mistakes we made was to create a component in the bug system called 'UI Design Feedback' for raising any design issues about the UI. This created an enormous backlog of issues covering the entire product, much more work than anyone who already had a real job in the UI would ever tolerate."
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In reply to Samuli Karevaara

Re: User Interface design in OSS

by David Kelly -
I encourage everyone to read the article in question so Samuli's comment has a stronger context. http://www.iol.ie/~calum/chi2002/peter_trudelle.txt It's good advice, in Netscape's case their creation of a UIDF system plus the bug tracker created a loop, it was wrong... in any discipline if any designer leaves the floodgates open to any possible comment or critiscism about what he does, and you provide the means to introduce the critiscism into the system again and again, this is the inevitable result...you drown in it...worth remembering. Ways of limiting this overload are to make sure everything gets fed into a single process, not two conflicting ones...The proposed bug tracker idea solves this one (and it works for Gnome)... a daft critiscism such as ... "this object is blue and as such is bad because I dont like blue" gets left well alone and expires with time and cannot cause a bottleneck if unattended. Constructive critiscisms which also offer a possible solution get considered for inclusion into the final product, ideas with merit will float...others will not, all do not have to be attended and re-attended.
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In reply to David Kelly

Re: User Interface design in OSS

by W Page -
Hi David!

I understand your point.  I do not have the time right now to read the information at the link you have pointed to but I will certainly try to tomorrow eve. 

I have to say that I have not seen many, if any, frivolous requests  like your example as a usability issue at Moodle.  Developers have been extremely helpful in walking people through things like link and page colors so they can make the changes themselves. Also, because of the constructivist atmosphere Moodlers who have been through similar experiences help other Moodlers whether they are Developers or not.

I cannot see the "Moodle Interface Guidelines" Wiki becoming a repository for that kind of thing.  It will be part of the Documentation Project and I suspect have its own guidelines.

WP1

 
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In reply to David Kelly

Re: User Interface design in OSS

by N Hansen -
In the first article you posted, there was a section entitled:

Usability problems are harder to specify and distribute than functionality problems


This is the reason we need a usability forum. Usability often depends on making global changes or standards. It involves creating a consistent interface. Having things work the same across different modules in Moodle is an example of good usability. But with different developers and contributors, there is no guarantee this will happen. It requires an overarching view of all of Moodle's components, from a user perspective, not from the perspective of the underlying code or a specific module. Usability is greater than the sum total of the parts. It would be nice if Moodle were to develop a standards manual of some kind for the development of new modules, with guidelines on how things should work.

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In reply to N Hansen

Re: User Interface design in OSS

by David Kelly -

by way of interest, here's 2 other projects approaches to managing standards / usability / interface design... both of which go considerably further than just using forums.

KDE use a sub domain from where all info can be accessed, styleguide, usability reports etc. a mailing list is used to discuss and the archives are also accessible from here:

http://usability.kde.org/hig/ 

also of interest is their work with openusability.org, an interesting project I hadnt seen before that brings open source developers and usability experts together, offering a virtual environment for the work. They have some reports available that seem to be fruit of their colaboration with KDE.

http://www.openusability.org/reports/?group_id=55

 NetBeans also uses a subdomain to house a complete set of resources

http://ui.netbeans.org/  

including one that outlines the UI development process

http://ui.netbeans.org/docs/dev-ui_procedure/dev-ui_procedure.html

Dave

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In reply to David Kelly

Re: User Interface design in OSS

by David Kelly -


The Gnome usability project is of special interest to moodle development as it uses a Bugtracker+CVS as its central axis.
Correct me if I'm wrong ... This runs parallel with Martin´s ideas and as such the structure of the Gnome approach is probably a good one to use as a reference, perhaps might even shed some light on possible features for the new improved bugtracker that he has mentioned is on the way.

A UI review for any particular application within GNOME is started by creating a "ui-review" top level bug (within that application's CVS entry) under which other bugs can be filed, when the review and related actions are completed, the top level "bug" is deleted.

Please see "Coordination of a ui -review."  http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/ui-review/coordination_of_ui_review.html

and: "How to write a UI-Review"
http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/ui-review/howto_write_ui_review.html

Central to the GNOME effort is a clearly defined HIG guidelines document, obviously we cannot copy this document as is, Moodle has its own set of parameters... but I think that the general format is good.
see:
GNOME Human Interface Guidelines Version 1.0
http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/1.0/

(Most recent) GNOME Human Interface Guidelines Version 2.0
http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/

Creating a similar document would be a good first step towards organised UI/Usability work with moodle.

Questions:
1. Can we develop a similar document for Moodle?
2. is anyone interested in colaborating?
3. if so, how should we go about colaboratively defining the parameters...use the existing bugtracker+cvs?

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In reply to David Kelly

Moodle Interface Guidelines

by Martin Dougiamas -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
I completely agree such a document is the first step. approve Ours won't need to be as complex as the Gnome example, and in fact the shorter the better, since developers are more likely to read and understand it.

And yes, the general structures Gnome are using with normal bugs assigned to various developers is exactly what we should do (note the "Interface issue" flag for bugs in our bug tracker).

I've opened up a page in the Developer Wiki for the "Moodle Interface Guidelines" with a few quick headings (subject to change of course). I hope you and others will be able to help grow this document by adding and reformatting ideas. Eventually it can move into the main documentation wiki under the hand of the new Documentation Leader.
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In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by David Kelly -
smile This is a great news Martin ... I feel that with this first step you have started the important process of nailing down any possible problems that can arise from interface/usability issues... often quoted these days as the achilles heel of OSS projects....you can count on my support for this.

I urge all current developers of modules to document any general or "unwritten" guidelines that have been followed up till now in the wiki. This will provide a good skeleton with which to work and allow us all to "see" the actual position with clarity, identify missing definitions etc.
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In reply to David Kelly

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by N Hansen -
David-The problem is that in many cases, no unwritten guidelines have been followed at all. When I look at this new wiki, I'm simply tempted to include things that need improvement, rather than document things that are as they are.
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In reply to N Hansen

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by Martin Dougiamas -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
Well, that's not really true, there is a lot of consistency. Perhaps you better wait until it gets filled out some more. wink
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In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by David Kelly -
I must have expressed myself badly... I was referring to exactly that consistency, just meant that it would be good to have it expressed/described in the wiki, we dont want to reinvent the wheel. 
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In reply to David Kelly

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by Martin Dougiamas -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
Sorry, I was replying to "in many cases, no unwritten guidelines have been followed at all"
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In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by N Hansen -
Of course, there is more consistency than inconsistency. But my point was that if our goal is consistencies not only do we need to document the current consistencies, but also document the inconsistencies in order to correct them and to implement consistency in their place.

And I should add, there are more inconsistencies in the contributed modules than in the standard, but I think having guidelines in place for developers to follow will help cure that problem.
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In reply to N Hansen

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by W Page -
This is a question to those with usability experience.

If one wanted to get into website usability: 
  • Where would you recommend one start? 
  • Is there a classic article that one should read and use as a jumping off point?

Thanks in advance.

WP1

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In reply to W Page

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by David Scotson -

I would recommend starting with Don't Make Me Think: A Common Sense Approach to Web Usability by Steve Krug

It's a really good book, full of good info yet brief, well written and accessible.

For a more general approach to usability I really like The Design of Everyday Things by Donald A. Norman (originally called The Psychology of Everyday Things).

It's a classic, so some of the examples are a bit dated, but the basic message that it is fundamentally hard for a designer (no matter how smart) to place themselves mentally in the position of a user is put across well. I think about this book's simple message every time I push a door I was supposed to pull and vice versa.

The somewhat tricky thing with regard to Moodle's usability is that Moodle is a web application, not a web site (though the line between the two is sometimes blurry) and few, if any, books have been written for that class of software. Therefore many applicable pieces of advice (from web, software or product usability guides) need to be reassessed with Moodle's nature in mind.

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In reply to David Scotson

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by David Scotson -

I adde some pointers on usability to a wiki page on usability if anyone else wants to contribute their suggested books and resources.

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In reply to David Scotson

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by N Hansen -
David-I found the wiki material you posted to border on the insulting. With that bike shed thing, are you suggesting that we are discussing trivial matters here? Is improving Moodle, even in a small way, a trivial matter? Is discussing, even disagreeing about, the way Moodle works trivial? That's how one gets to a better solution, by discussing the issues.

And what about this stupid nipple remark? You seem to keep making remarks about the terms being used, which to me seems to be red herrings obscuring the real issue. What does it matter whether we call it "breadcrumbs" or "intuitive" or "learnability" or "usability"-in the end, our goal should be to have the ability to structure a learning environment for our students (and other Moodle users) that encourages them to learn, makes it easy for them to interact with the learning environment and one another, and conveys a structure that we as teachers wish to convey to our students in our course.

On that last point, in Using Moodle, there is good reason to want the disputed breadcrumb trail to be there, because it will help to reinforce the learning goals of this course-which is how Moodle works. In a course on porcupine mating habits, this would not convey a relevant structure.
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In reply to N Hansen

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by David Scotson -

I seem to be struggling to say anything on this topic without offending someone, but apparently I've outdone myself here. I apologise, but hopefully can explain that I did not meant to cause offence.

The bikeshed thing is an empirical observation of the social side of open source software, and if you read the link you'll see that, despite the informal tone of the piece, it is actually a positive encouragement for people to push forward and make changes despite the fact that small (though not trivial!) changes can often create the greatest amount of discussion.

The nipple remark was, I thought, a common yet colourful way to concisely sum up why it is unwise to follow the standard application of 'intuitive', meaning inborn, instinctive knowledge, to highly complex software situations. It is better suited to describing natural phenomenon such as breast-feeding, where the young child truly responds intuitively without having to learn from experience or be taught what to do. When people use the term to describe computer interfaces they do not generally intend to suggest that a child raised by wolves would have no problem understanding it, and if two different people claim that two competing options are both more 'intuitive' then there isn't really any constructive way to proceed unless surveys or research is conducted. That, of course, is an admission that the 'intuitiveness' lies in the relationship between an individual and the software, not in the software itself.

With that warning on 'intuitive' and 'learnable vs. usable', and the general warning that seemingly small changes can often lead to unexpectedly heated debate, I had hoped to avoid arguments and offence, as people argue about what is more 'usable' or 'intuitive' without a shared reference or context for these terms. Obviously that intention has somewhat backfired. sad

Please (anyone) feel free to rephrase the entries to better reflect this or delete them if they are unsalvagable.

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In reply to W Page

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by N Hansen -
When I designed my first online course back in 1999, I read the first edition of this first:

http://www.webstyleguide.com/

At that time, it was considered one of the best sources on the topic. And it still is. I highly recommend it as a starting point. I'd say this is probably the one thing that influenced me the most in how I look at usability.





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In reply to N Hansen

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by Darren Smith -

That looks sooooo useful. It fits perfectly with the web course I am delivering approve

Thanks for sharing!

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In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by W Page -
Hello All!

Well! Wonders never cease. At least a beginning. A mountain can be moved big grin.

Thank you Martin!! smile

The many (possibly bored?? evil) who are quietly interested and have posted interest in some kind of specific approach to "usability" in Moodle now have someplace (even if it may not be ideal) to work out concerns and attempt to create usability guidelines in a cooperative, collaborative and flexible "arena". Ahhhh the nice aroma of constructivism!!

Samuli Karevaara brought up an interesting point about student testing and usability in another thread. Possibly the "Moodle Interface Guidelines" could possibly also be used as a place to develop some testing guidelines to help teachers know how to test for and provide helpful feedback on usability issues.
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=19211&parent=92156

BTW, Don Hinkelman is having a book study which may be useful to those interested in usability.
Book Study on "Learning Design"
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=18927

For those who are interested, here are some background discussions about "usability". I apologize for discussions I may have mistakenly left out:

What about a "Usability Group" instead??
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=19211

Consistency and Usability
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=19178

Back button at the bottom please????
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=19228&mode=1

User Interface design in OSS
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=18423

Martin D - Please can we have a Usability Forum??
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=17233 

Suggestion for new forum topic (Granddaddy Thread)
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=14924#71409

Again Thanks Martin!!

WP1

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In reply to W Page

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by Samuli Karevaara -
W Page, after a small thought, I realized that it's the teachers that are the "lowest common denominator", students are quite nimble with Moodle after just a while of using it.
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In reply to Samuli Karevaara

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by Darren Smith -
It depends what you mean by students!

If you are talking about 11 year old lads with learning difficulties then I would hope that teachers are not the lowest common denominator!

I think a few people are guilty of assuming the Moodle environment is going to be used by students in further ed. Moodle needs to be flexible and accessible to students with a range of abilities.
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In reply to Darren Smith

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by Samuli Karevaara -
Darren, I meant technologically. There is a saying "as easy that a child could use it", but in IT era the parents are usually the clueless ones. This is what I was referring to. Most teachers I know know less about using computer programs (thus, Moodle) than 11 year olds with learning difficulties... and I'm not going over the top here.

I know that 11 year old students in Finland use Moodle, also 55 year old students. Maybe I was being a bit too tongue-in-cheek here.

The teacher-reference was also because they are usually the ones using the more complex UI while creating the course, it's contents and modules etc... so the student interface is slightly less complex.
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In reply to Samuli Karevaara

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by W Page -
QUOTE:  Samuli Karevaara
"...The teacher-reference was also because they are usually the ones using the more complex UI while creating the course, it's contents and modules etc... so the student interface is slightly less complex."

Neat insight on that.

WP1
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In reply to W Page

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by Martin Dougiamas -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Moodle HQ Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
Sigh, WP, I might stop replying to you entirely soon because it's seems you never really read my many previous replies about the extreme importance of standardising the interface to Moodle in the very links you keep posting over and over...

The concept of usability is useful. Case study research is more useful. Interface guidelines are crucial. Specific interface bug reports are crucial. Developers are crucial. Coding Guidelines and a good API are crucial. Discussion and interaction are crucial. Progression is crucial. The idea of a separate "usability group" is simply not useful from a developer's point of view, sorry.

I usually like the colour you bring to the forums but I'm a bit mystified by your obsession with this one word!  mixed I hope you can move on to giving us a hand here! wink
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In reply to Martin Dougiamas

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by W Page -
Hi Martin!

I will take the abuse smile you have heaped on me about my interest in usability since you have now created a "Moodle Interface Guidelines" Wiki, that is, a workplace that can be used for this aspect of development.  I hope it will be an asset to Moodle development and help to create less work for developers in the long run.

My concern, (what you see as "obsession") was based on not previously having a place where usability issues could be addressed and worked on by people who have knowledge about it so we could all learn from their experience.

Of course, you must know, I agree with you that different aspects of Moodle and the different components of creating good software are important.  You also must know that I do read your responses and I know that usability is an important issue to you.  I know that you have been working hard on such issues for the v1.5 release.  I know you care.  But, I think you also know that I care as well.

I sometimes think that you do not understand just how much I and others appreciate your work as lead programmer and creator of Moodle as well as the work of all the programmers that contribute code.

It is how you have structured Moodle.org and your openness to differing opinions that allowed this discussion to even take place.

I will say it again, thanks Martin!!

WP1

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In reply to W Page

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by Samuli Karevaara -
W Page, I feel that I have to comment. You said "not previously having a place where usability issues could be addressed".

Usability issues can have been addressed in ALMOST EVERY FORUM here on Using Moodle.

This is maybe the biggest difference you and Martin have. You seem to see usability as a complete independent subject, while it's of course touching everything in Moodle.

Martin said before (in the effect of) that if there is a usability issue in for example the quiz module, then write to the quiz module forum. And so on and so on...

Believe me, Martin has a clear grasp on what usability is, what usability studies are, he has probably read many of Jacob Nielsen's columns (while not agreeing on most/some of them, I guess smile

Moodle ranks very high in usability, specially amongst web applications.
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In reply to Samuli Karevaara

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by W Page -
Hi Samuli!

Believe me, I know Martin has "a clear grasp on what usability is" and what "usability studies are". I really do not want anybody to think that I am questioning Martin's knowledge about this. If that is a feeling that has eminated from my posts. I want to stop the feeling right here and now. And, I want to make an apology to Martin if he feels I was doing that.

I looked at it as a discussion and difference of view as to how to approach the issue of usability. Nothing else.

I appreciate you bringing this to my attention Samuli. BTW, I find your posts insightful.

WP1
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In reply to Samuli Karevaara

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by Brian Koontz -
Usability issues can have been addressed in ALMOST EVERY FORUM here on Using Moodle.

And therein lies the problem:  There appears to be (until now) no concerted effort to unify usability across Moodle in a way that addresses all aspects of Moodle.

You seem to see usability as a complete independent subject, while it's of course touching everything in Moodle.

With all due respect, I believe that the failure to view usability as a complete independent subject is one of the larger failures of the F/OSS movement.  Having worked in the industry, I can tell you that a unified look and feel is a concept that comes up over and over in marketing studies. 

Believe me, Martin has a clear grasp on what usability is, what usability studies are, he has probably read many of Jacob Nielsen's columns (while not agreeing on most/some of them, I guess

I think we all are mature enough to realize that while Martin certainly holds title to the unified vision of Moodle, his selfless contribution isn't diminished by those who believe that some adjustment to his vision is in order.  (My apologies to Martin in referring to him in the third person, as if he's not here...)

Moodle ranks very high in usability, specially amongst web applications.

Which means Moodle can improve, does it not?

Let's keep moving forward on this, instead of losing momentum by stopping to throw up defenses that really aren't necessarily.

  --Brian


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In reply to Brian Koontz

Re: Moodle Interface Guidelines

by Samuli Karevaara -
I would like to clarify that I wasn't as heated up as it might look like from my use of all-caps, bold etc. It was just WP's style that cought on smile

There appears to be (until now) no concerted effort to unify usability across Moodle in a way that addresses all aspects of Moodle.

I saw this one coming, just thought WP would bring it up. At first I felt that "this carousel goes around again" but then a new thought came: while I do feel that even before usability was a unified effort in Moodle developement, some form of separate work on usability issues underlines this fact also to the "public".

In my vocabulary usability is a very large term, and it would suit better to say that we want to unify "look'n'feel" across Moodle, instead of usability. Some modules are more complex than others, and very often complex things stay somewhat complex, and another goal is to keep the simple things simple.

Yes, yes, moving on... there's still room at the back of the bus.

On a final note to those, who still feel that the usability issues are not addressed enough: address them! It's true that usually the developers don't have enough time, energy and resources to conduct separate usability tests with outsiders. Then step up and do so. Sketches of new UI propositions can be made on cardboard mock-ups and those can be tested with real people too. I'd like to do some work on that too, and read what others are coming up with.
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