Moodle in English: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Anna Krassa - සඳුදා, 22 අගෝස්තු 2011, 3:23 PM මගින්

Hello all,

I would like to share a challenge that I am facing with lesson in a Moodle 2.1 installation.

We have setup a lesson with mutlichoice questions and the following settings:

practice lesson ( no )
custom scoring ( yes )
re-takes allowed ( yes )
provide option to try the question again ( yes/no ) and
maximum number of attempts 1

We currently facing the following problems:

1) even though maximum number of attempts is 1, students can retake each question as many time as they want (actually only the correct answer takes them to the next page). Actually we do have the same result when we disable the option for retry the question again.

2) each answer has each own responce. When multiple answers are allowed and a student gives a partially correct answer, he gets only the responce for the "wrong" answer

3) also even though custom scoring is allowed I can't really set marks as I want (I have tried to give 0.333 for example and system turned it into 1).

Has anyone else faced those problems?

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Joseph Rézeau - සඳුදා, 22 අගෝස්තු 2011, 3:45 PM මගින්

@Anna, just to make things clear,

practice lesson ( no )
custom scoring ( yes )
re-takes allowed ( yes )
provide option to try the question again ( yes/no )
maximum number of attempts 1

what was your setting for #4 : yes or no?

Joseph

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Anna Krassa - අඟහරුවාදා, 23 අගෝස්තු 2011, 5:22 PM මගින්

Both Joseph!

Provide option to try the question again ( yes )

works exaclty the same with

Provide option to try the question again ( no ).

I have test them both, they have the same result. Allow students to retake the same question after a wrong answer (or partially wrong) again and again.

It's like a broken switch...

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Joseph Rézeau - අඟහරුවාදා, 23 අගෝස්තු 2011, 10:40 PM මගින්

Hello anna, here are the answers to your questions.

#1

"even though maximum number of attempts is 1, students can retake each question as many time as they want "

From the online Help:

Provide option to try a question again

If enabled, when a question is answered incorrectly, the student is given the option to try it again for no point credit, or continue with the lesson.

This option over-rides the Maximum number of attempts option. So, in your case, yes, students can retake a question as many times as they want, but... they won't earn any points!

#2

"When multiple answers are allowed and a student gives a partially correct answer"

The reason is that you have misunderstood the way feedback (or "response") works in Multiple Choice questions with the Multiple answers option. See my detailed explanation in this discussion.

#3

"also even though custom scoring is allowed I can't really set marks as I want "

Only integer numbers (1, 2, 3, ...) are allowed when scoring the questions. So it is quite normal that your fractional number is rounded.

If you feel the above does not quite answer your questions or if you have further questions, do post more questions, but remember this forum rule: only question per post (not 3 !).

Joseph

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: Useful (1)

Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Anna Krassa - බදාදා, 24 අගෝස්තු 2011, 5:16 PM මගින්

Thanks a lot Josep, that's very helpful.

The only think I still can't understand in #1 is that when I am not providing the option to take the question again, and number of attempts is being set to 1, then why students can take the question again and again (more than once)?

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Joseph Rézeau - බ්‍රහස්පතින්දා, 25 අගෝස්තු 2011, 5:38 AM මගින්

Hi anna,

You're right. There does seem to be a bug with the "provide option to try the question again" : it behaves the same whether set to yes or no!

I will investigate and report here.

ATB

Joseph

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: Useful (1)

Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Anna Krassa - බ්‍රහස්පතින්දා, 25 අගෝස්තු 2011, 2:56 PM මගින්

Thank you so much Joseph!

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Joseph Rézeau - බ්‍රහස්පතින්දා, 25 අගෝස්තු 2011, 11:05 PM මගින්

Here are my findings:

The way that those two Lesson settings:

Provide option to try a question again (in 2.0)
and Maximum number of attempts

interact leads to inconsistencies in the Lesson flow control.

I have found a simple fix, which does work in the case at hand, but may have unexpected side-effects, so use at own risk.

For Moodle 2.0 and 2.1. In file <moodle>/mod/lesson/continue.php, change line 200 from:

if (!$result->correctanswer && !$result->noanswer && !$result->isessayquestion && !$reviewmode) {

if (!$result->correctanswer && !$result->noanswer && !$result->isessayquestion && !$reviewmode && $lesson->review) {

Reported as MDL-29115.

Joseph

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: Useful (1)

Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Anna Krassa - සිකුරාදා, 26 අගෝස්තු 2011, 5:23 PM මගින්

Thanks a lot Joseph for you time and your effort.

I'll pass your answer to our admin.

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Joseph Rézeau - ඉරිදා, 6 නොවැම්බර් 2011, 9:37 PM මගින්

@Anna,

Any update on your problem? Did my fix solve it?

Joseph

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Anna Krassa - බදාදා, 30 නොවැම්බර් 2011, 5:28 PM මගින්

Joseph thank you for you kind interest and your hard work.

I haven't udpated you on this, because I can't check your solution. Admin said that we have to wait until the code will be officially updated and upgrade to the new version.

Do you know if this has been included in v2.2? I wish for that...

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Joseph Rézeau - බ්‍රහස්පතින්දා, 1 දෙසැම්බර් 2011, 6:36 AM මගින්

This bug has been fixed in moodle 2.1 (and forthcoming 2.2).

Joseph

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: Useful (1)

Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Anna Krassa - අඟහරුවාදා, 6 දෙසැම්බර් 2011, 4:09 PM මගින්

Thank you so much!

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Isabelle Langeveld - සඳුදා, 10 මාර්තු 2014, 10:27 PM මගින්

I am on 2.6. I would like to make it possible that students take 2 attempts at each question if the first attempt is wrong. Is it possible to show the custom feedback only at the second attempt?

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Joseph Rézeau - අඟහරුවාදා, 11 මාර්තු 2014, 3:39 PM මගින්

@Isabelle,

Not possible.

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Isabelle Langeveld - අඟහරුවාදා, 11 මාර්තු 2014, 4:46 PM මගින්

TNX, that's a clear answer. I'll just put the lessons back to 1 attempt so I am sure they see the feedback.

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

תשובה ל: Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Irith Herman - ඉරිදා, 6 නොවැම්බර් 2011, 6:29 AM මගින්

Dear Joseph!

Is there any fix for this problem in moodle 1.96?

thanks

Irith

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

Re: תשובה ל: Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Joseph Rézeau - ඉරිදා, 6 නොවැම්බර් 2011, 9:35 PM මගින්

@Irith,

I suppose you mean you are using 1.9.6.

I don't think the problem described in this discussion exists in moodle 1.9.x. At least I cannot reproduce it in the most recent version of Moodle 1.9, which is 1.9.14. I advise upgrading your moodle site to 1.9.14.

Anyway, can you please describe your problem step by step?

Joseph

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

תשובה ל: Re: תשובה ל: Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Irith Herman - අඟහරුවාදා, 8 නොවැම්බර් 2011, 4:10 AM මගින්

Hi Joseph!

I"m using moodle 1.9.6.

I gave the option for two tries, but you can try endless experiments
and it has an effect on grades .

Thanks

Irith

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

Re: תשובה ל: Re: תשובה ל: Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Joseph Rézeau - අඟහරුවාදා, 8 නොවැම්බර් 2011, 4:42 PM මගින්

Sorry, I have no idea what you mean. Please provide a detailed scenario of your problem so we can help.

Joseph

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

תשובה ל: Re: תשובה ל: Re: תשובה ל: Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Irith Herman - සිකුරාදා, 11 නොවැම්බර් 2011, 4:10 AM මගින්

students can retake each question as many time as they want
when a question is answered incorrectly, the student is given the

option to try it again for no point credit,

this option is not working ! The student can try 2 times(this ahat we choose in setting)

the grade is changing after more attemps

0% Monday, 7 November 2011, 09:59 PM, (20 secs)
0% Monday, 7 November 2011, 09:59 PM, (43 secs)
0% Monday, 7 November 2011, 10:00 PM, (38 secs)
100% Monday, 7 November 2011, 10:01 PM, (5 mins 59 secs) 100%

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

Re: תשובה ל: Re: תשובה ל: Re: תשובה ל: Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Joseph Rézeau - සිකුරාදා, 11 නොවැම්බර් 2011, 5:54 AM මගින්

For the last time, please provide the full details of your Lesson settings. Other than that I'm afraid I cannot reproduce your problem and therefore cannot help.

Joseph

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

תשובה ל: Re: תשובה ל: Re: תשובה ל: Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Irith Herman - සිකුරාදා, 11 නොවැම්බර් 2011, 6:40 AM මගින්

Updating Lesson in topic 2

General

Name

Time limit (minutes)

Enable

Maximum number of answers/branches

20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2

Grade options

Practice lesson

No Yes

Custom scoring

No Yes

Maximum grade

100 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 80 79 78 77 76 75 74 73 72 71 70 69 68 67 66 65 64 63 62 61 60 59 58 57 56 55 54 53 52 51 50 49 48 47 46 45 44 43 42 41 40 39 38 37 36 35 34 33 32 31 30 29 28 27 26 25 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0

תלמיד can re-take

No Yes

Handling of re-takes

Use mean Use maximum

Display ongoing score

No Yes

Flow control

Allow student review

No Yes

Display review button

No Yes

Maximum number of attempts

10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1

Action after correct answer

Normal - follow lesson path Show an Unseen Page Show an unanswered Page

Display default feedback

No Yes

Minimum number of questions

Number of pages (cards) to show

Lesson formatting

Slide Show

No Yes

Slide show width Required field

Slide show height Required field

Help with Slide show height (new window)

Slide show background color Required field

Help with Slide show background color (new window)

Display left menu

No Yes

Display left menu only if grade greater than:

100% 99% 98% 97% 96% 95% 94% 93% 92% 91% 90% 89% 88% 87% 86% 85% 84% 83% 82% 81% 80% 79% 78% 77% 76% 75% 74% 73% 72% 71% 70% 69% 68% 67% 66% 65% 64% 63% 62% 61% 60% 59% 58% 57% 56% 55% 54% 53% 52% 51% 50% 49% 48% 47% 46% 45% 44% 43% 42% 41% 40% 39% 38% 37% 36% 35% 34% 33% 32% 31% 30% 29% 28% 27% 26% 25% 24% 23% 22% 21% 20% 19% 18% 17% 16% 15% 14% 13% 12% 11% 10% 9% 8% 7% 6% 5% 4% 3% 2% 1% 0%

Progress Bar

No Yes

Access control

Password protected lesson

No Yes

Password

Unmask

Available from

Day 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 Month January February March April May June July August September October November December Year 1970 1971 1972 1973 1974 1975 1976 1977 1978 1979 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992 1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Hour 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Minute 00 05 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 Disable

Deadline

Dependent on

None 1.1 שאלות לפרק 1 2.1 שאלות לפרק 2 3.1 שאלות לפרק 3 5.1 שאלות לפרק 5 6.1 שאלות לפרק 6 7.1 שאלות לפרק 7

Time Spent (minutes)

Completed

Grade better than (%)

Pop-up to file or web page

Show close button:

No Yes

Window height: Required field

width:

Other

Link to an activity

None assignment - 10.2 מטלת סיכום לשער 4 assignment - 2.2 מטלת סיכום לשער 1 assignment - 4.2 מטלת סיכום לשער 2 assignment - 7.2 מטלת סיכום לשער 3 assignment - 8.1 שאלות לפרק 8 assignment - מטלה מסכמת לכלל פרקי הקורס assignment - פנייה למרצה ולבודק הקורס assignment - ציון סופי לקורס assignment - רשות! - משוב - למילוי על ידי המשתלמים שסיימו את כל חובות הקורס forum - לוח הודעות של המורה לתלמידים lesson - 1.1 שאלות לפרק 1 lesson - 2.1 שאלות לפרק 2 lesson - 3.1 שאלות לפרק 3 lesson - 5.1 שאלות לפרק 5 lesson - 6.1 שאלות לפרק 6 lesson - 7.1 שאלות לפרק 7 resource - 1. פרק 1: פרקי אבות מאז ועד היום resource - 10. פרק 10: מה בין אישיות מופת לאישיות בת-חלוף: אברהם אבינו מול בלעם הרשע resource - 11. פרק 11: יישום הגישות העולות בפרקי אבות בחיים האישיים ובחיים המקצועיים בהוראה resource - 2. פרק 2: היכולת לתקן טעויות חינוכיות – רבי עקיבא ואלישע בן אבויה resource - 3. פרק 3: תרבות השיח היהודי resource - 4. פרק 4: התמודדות עם קונפליקט - תרבות המחלוקת בישראל resource - 5. פרק 5: לא הקפדן מלמד resource - 6. פרק 6: חברה - גורם תומך או מפריע resource - 7. פרק 7: חנוך לנער על פי דרכו resource - 8. פרק 8: אם אין קמח אין תורה - על היחס בין השכלה ופרנסה resource - 9. פרק 9: ממון - מצורך ועד התמכרות resource - הנחיות ללומדים בקורס resource - מבוא

Number of high scores displayed Required field

Help with Number of high scores displayed (new window)

Use this lesson's settings as defaults

No Yes

Common module settings

Visible

Show Hide

ID number

Grade category

Uncategorised

There are required fields in this form marked

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

Re: תשובה ל: Re: תשובה ל: Re: תשובה ל: Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Joseph Rézeau - සිකුරාදා, 11 නොවැම්බර් 2011, 3:53 PM මගින්

Unfortunately the Lesson settings you have posted do not show your actual settings, only the possible settings available.

For example:

Flow control

Allow student review

No Yes

Does not tell us whether in your lesson settings you have set Yes or No. So the whole thing is useless. Please try again, maybe using a screen capture, or write by hand in your reply the exact settings you have actually set in your lesson. See attached example.

Joseph

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

תשובה ל: Re: תשובה ל: Re: תשובה ל: Re: תשובה ל: Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Irith Herman - සිකුරාදා, 11 නොවැම්බර් 2011, 5:03 PM මගින්

2 gifs

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

Re: תשובה ל: Re: תשובה ל: Re: תשובה ל: Re: תשובה ל: Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

Joseph Rézeau - සිකුරාදා, 11 නොවැම්බර් 2011, 11:42 PM මගින්

You said "2 gifs" but I can only see one. Never mind, I think I am getting the important information.

I have tried your settings on my moodle 1.9.14 (the latest version available for moodle 1.9).

1.- There is a contradiction between what you reported earlier and the Flow control/Display review button setting I can see on your screenshot. If Display review button is set to No (as on your screenshot), then what you wrote on Thursday, 10 November 2011, 09:10 PM "students can retake each question as many time as they want ; when a question is answered incorrectly, the student is given the option to try it again for no point credit" is not possible to happen.

2.-Those results:

simply mean that, since you set your lesson to Grade options / Student can re-take YES (as seen from your settings screenshot) the student took that lesson 3 times in succession, and finally got their answers correct on the 3rd attempt.

It seems that you are confusion the number of attempts that a student can have at a question and the number of attempts that a student can have at a Lesson.

From which I conclude that the Lesson is behaving as expected (in Moodle 1.9) in this respect.

Joseph

PS.- However, there remains a related but different bug, which I reported in MDL-23598 and still not fixed for 1.9.

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -

Re: Responces in lesson and multiple attempts

lei lei - බදාදා, 16 නොවැම්බර් 2011, 11:06 AM මගින්

Thanks a lot Josep, that's very helpful.

ශ්‍රේණිගත කිරීම්වල සාමාන්යය: -