Quiz

 
 
Picture of Andreas Glombitza
Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

Hi all,

I'm not sure how many people are interested in this, but for an EU-project, we have developed an interface to more easily edit CLOZE-questions. The reason was that the language teachers involved in the project could not be expected to work with the CLOZE-syntax, and existing add-ons (like http://moodle.org/mod/data/view.php?d=13&rid=3959&filter=1) were also difficult to work with.

The integration (PHP/javascript) is essentially a new button in the editor (it's currently available only for the 1.9 editor, but bringing it to TinyMCE should not be a big problem?). It's currently available in German/English. I'll add detailed info to the modules&plugins db shortly.

Here's a demonstrator:

http://u-002-segsv001.uni-tuebingen.de/pellic/mod/resource/view.php?id=2507

Best,

Andi

 

 

 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
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Hi Andreas,
This seems interesting although "the reason was that the language teachers involved in the project could not expected to work with the CLOZE-syntax" needs more detailed explanation.
Pierre
P.S. I have only access to an Ipad( holidays...) so I could not test your demo.
 
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Picture of Jean-Michel Védrine
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
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Hi Pierre,

I work in a "business" department of a french "Institut de technologie" and none of my colleagues apart maybe 2 or 3 could be expected to work with the CLOZE syntax even after a several days training were they language teachers or other specialities !

I have tested the demo and it seems very interesting and working well

It would be very interesting to do a tinyMCE plugin (the old editor in 1.9 is sooo bad !)

 
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Picture of Andreas Glombitza
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

Hi Pierre,

it's not that there's something wrong with the syntax - it is straightforward, if you are prepared and willing to devote time for learning it. However, for most of the language teachers I have met, this is a deal-breaker (maybe it's a question of subjects?). This is a shame because CLOZE is by far the most suitable question type for creating language quiz activities. So we figured that a more "human-friendly" interface would encourage teachers to make better use of quiz activities for their language lessons.

 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
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There are many forum posts and available plug-ins to help users add questions to Cloze without mastering the Cloze syntax.
As a partial solution, I added the decode button so that users could at least see the results of there actual cloze question text and correct their syntax if something does not work as they want it.
How far should we go in the core coding?
There is no clear answer to this.
How complex should be the secondary editor to edit the subquestions ?
Using our moodle interfaces standards, it should as complex as each individual question types i.e shortanswer, numerical,multichoice and should fullfill users with restricted possibilities.
The decode question text already handle almost all common errors but could be improved.
A specific secondary editor with a copy and paste function could be the solution.
Tim has a better software knowledge than me to decide how the complexity and flexibilty of Cloze question can be best handled given all these parameters.
Pierre
 
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Picture of Andreas Glombitza
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

Hi Pierre,

"There are many forum posts and available plug-ins to help users add questions to Cloze without mastering the Cloze syntax."

It might be there are possibilities I'm not aware of, but before we decided to code this, we couldn't find any satisfactory support for CLOZE creation. Neither the Java-based integration mentioned above, nor the word-macro solution suggested in this thread seemed practicable.

"How far should we go in the core coding?
There is no clear answer to this."

I wasn't thinking about getting this in Moodle core (sorry if my posting in this forum suggests otherwise) - I see it more as a useful add-on for admins who want to "open up" CLOZE to "normal users". As I said, I know of several people who haven't dared to touch CLOZE questions because they simply can't be bothered creating such monsters without support:

{1:MULTICHOICE:%100%CLOZE#right!~%80%Embedded answer#right!~%0%close#almost correct!~%0%*#think again.}

The "Decode and Verify" function helps, but only if you've managed to remember roughly where to put all the ugly %#~ stuff wink. And that's where this interface could come in handy. It doesn't entirely "hide" the syntax from users, but supports them in its creation.

 

 
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Picture of Itamar Tzadok
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
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Very nice. You should consider allowing adding more question options. Also, there seems to be no way to reedit a question. smile

 
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Picture of Andreas Glombitza
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

Hi Itamar,

you're right, currently it's a one-way tool - it "encodes" cloze-items, but cannot read them (yet - until someone finds the time to include a parser smile). What other question options do you suggest? I thought we had included all possible options for a CLOZE item?

 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
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Hi Andreas, The DECODE AND VERIFY THE QUESTION TEXT button is a parser that allows you to see all the subquestions and their elements.
However, it is not a complete parser that identifies where you have done a bad Cloze coding.
We are open to a such a proposal smile
Pierre
 
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Picture of Itamar Tzadok
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
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By options I meant choices. It seems to be fixed to 4 but users may require more than 4. For instance, wrong answers for CLOZE could be CLOSE, KLOZE, KLOSE, CLOAZE etc. A simple modification may be adding more input fields (or rather field sets), say 4 more, hidden by css, and a bit of javascript to reveal them upon a click of a button. smile

 
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Picture of Andreas Glombitza
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

Hi Itamar,

I thought about this too. I think a button to "add 3 more blanks" (like we have in other question editing forms) could easily be implemented. Thanks for the suggestion!

 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
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Hi Itamar
"No way to reedit the question" ?
Could you explain?
Given that a cloze question could contains more than one question, in the actual code you cannot change the order or type of each subquestions in a Cloze question that is already used in a quiz. A cloze question is a mini quiz by itself.
Pierre
 
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Picture of Itamar Tzadok
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
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Meant reedit a subquestion (or an encoded clause) by the encoding interface, sorry for the confusion. smile

 
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Picture of Joseph Rézeau
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
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Very nice tool, congratulations, Andi. Yes

 
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Picture of Andreas Glombitza
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

Thanks for the thumbs up, Joseph smile

 
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Pierre Pichet
Complexity and speed in creating questions
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From the various comments, I understand that there is
1.There is a need to change the Cloze syntax so that it is internationalized i.e. the main terminology as seen from the user side should be translated.(NUMERICAL,MULTICHOICE etc.)
2.There should be a short question_edit_form (more or less like previous old moodle versions) to edit the individual subquestions.
Moodle code as any computer code can be build to satisfy these needs.
Should we do it ?
This is part of a larger debate about the complexity of generating questions though full feature interface and easyness of generating a quiz for tomorrow lesson as a teacher.
From 1,6 to actual 2,1, complexity has increased as far as the computers could handle larger code at higher speed.
We could note however the parallel increase in tools (internal or external plug-ins) to help teachers build their tomorrow quiz.
Tim, perhaps this it the time to start a larger debate ?
Pierre
 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Complexity and speed in creating questions
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"From the various comments, I understand that there is 1.There is a need to change the Cloze syntax so that it is internationalized i.e. the main terminology as seen from the user side should be translated.(NUMERICAL,MULTICHOICE etc.) "
I did not understood well as this comment was written without knowing the Andreas comments related to just using this tool as an external plug-in.
However the increased complexity of Moodle question interface remains a problem.
Pierre
 
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Picture of Andreas Glombitza
Re: Complexity and speed in creating questions
 

Hi Pierre,

I agree that the complexity of some of the question interfaces can be overwhelming - in particular where the interface is primarily "technology driven", like with CLOZE questions (although I'm not up-to-date about whether 2.1 successfully tackled some of these instances).

As said, my CLOZE "sub-editor" wasn't intended as a core candidate - but I'd be happy if it - or the concept - could help increase usability for many users.

I'm currently looking into converting it to TinyMCE with my colleague Achim Skuta (hopefully this is easier than doing a HTMLArea plugin, as TinyMCE is being advertised "fully pluggable").

As for now, I've added it to the modules and plugins database as an "integration" (I suppose it's currently waiting for approval? Or should I write a message to Anthony Borrow?) at http://moodle.org/mod/data/view.php?d=13&rid=4947.

Andi

 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Complexity and speed in creating questions
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Hi Andreas,
Moodle should be as itself an example of easy to use interface and a lot of work has been done for this if you look at all the new 2,0 features for navigation and display.
The Moodle form was created (1,7-1,8) to standardize form interactions and setting standards for special users with some disabilities.
Improving quiz and questions features to a better e-learning ( feedback, hints, penalty , new question engine etc.) has the consequence that the user needs to define more features.
If we want to keep question editing on a one page form, it should be should be expandable to only show the parts that the user want to see or use.
An example is a teacher that just want to set a simple numerical question without unit , feedback, hint etc.
Technically I don't know what could be the best way to handle this.
One solution could be to add more than one advanced button to control the display of the various question parameters.
We could then develop a Cloze interface that will allow to set the parameters of each subquestion in a mini question interface as Cloze subquestions do not use all the complete questions features (i.e. numerical).
In such an interface we could add new features to Cloze as defining the subquestion only by a place holder {#1} {#2} in the question text and editing the subquestion say {#2} lower in the form.
This is the way that Cloze questions are stored in the DB.
One side advantages is that the questions could be easily displaced in the text.
Anyway, the question editing form needs modifications if we want to help moodle users to create questions for Moodle inside Moodle smile.
Pierre
 
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Picture of Eoin Campbell
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

See this thread for a suggestion on a more user-friendly interface which I implemented in Word (cf. www.moodle2word.net), but which could also be implemented in a custom HTML editor, if you are planning to implement this.

 
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Picture of Andreas Glombitza
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

Hi Eoin,

thanks for the suggestion, I didn't know this before. I've only had a brief look at moodle2word, but it seems like an impressively comprehensive (and dauntingly complex) project.

Compared to this, my CLOZE-editor is indeed quite simplistic, but it does have the advantage that after install, a browser window is all you need for creating CLOZE-based quizzes at a decent level of non-nerd-user friendlyness (and that's really all it can do) - no 3rd party software plugins, registrations or external XML parsing servers smile

Best,

Andi

 
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Picture of Andreas Glombitza
Editor lang strings in 2.1?
 

@Tim: as this is more of a contrib question, I'm wondering whether this thread should be moved to the contrib forum?

Anyways, I'm working on a TinyMCE plugin version of this editor integration. Main functionality works fine (plugin dev for TinyMCE is indeed fairly easy, compared to what you had to go through in 1.9's HTMLArea!).

The only thing I still cannot get to work is with a handful of additional language strings (see screenshot below). Could anybody help me - or point me to a source of info - just where I need to put and how I need to format lang strings for a TinyMCE plugin in Moodle 2?


 
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Picture of Jean-Michel Védrine
Re: Editor lang strings in 2.1?
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Hello andreas,

I like your plugin very much.

I think i can answer your question having worked on some math plugins.

You need to put the strings with the form

$string['pluginname:whateverstring'] = 'string value:';
or
$string['pluginname_dlg:whateverstring'] = 'string value:';

in the lib/editor/tinymce/lang/en/editor_tinymce.php file
and not modifying anything in the plugin or dialog code works because the lib/editor/tinymce/extra/strings.php script do the conversion "on the fly" to JS lang format
for instance if you have

$string['clozeeditor_dlg:titleclozeeditor'] = 'Cloze editor';

in lib/editor/tinymce/lang/en/editor_tinymce.php, you can use {#clozeeditor_dlg.titleclozeeditor}

in your dlg file and it works

That way most TinyMCE plugins can be integrated in Moodle unchanged. You just need to add the lang strings to lib/editor/tinymce/lang/en/editor_tinymce.php

One inportant thing : don't forget to purge caches after having changed a lang string to see your changes because they are cached. I think there is a setting to put in config.php to prevent lang string caching during development but i don't remember wich one.




 
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Picture of Andreas Glombitza
Re: Editor lang strings in 2.1?
 

Thanks a million, Jean-Michel! The English strings work now. But then I don't think I really understand how internationalization works on Moodle 2 (at least for TinyMCE plugins).

Although I have several language packs installed on my test installation, there's only an "en" dir in /lib/editor/tinymce/lang - where do I put other language strings I want to provide users with (e.g. de, fr, es)? Should I add lang directories WITHIN the plugin folder, or will those be ignored?

Sorry if I'm not seeing the obvious - maybe I need just one more push smile

 
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Picture of Jean-Michel Védrine
Re: Editor lang strings in 2.1?
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Lang files for packages other than english are not "distributed" among moodle files in each lang folder. They are stored in a central place inside the moodledata folder

For the french package it's moodledata/lang/fr/editor_tinymce.php that you have to modify.

This is different from other plugins because for instance if you create a new question type named myquestion you can put the lang strings in question/type/myquestion/lang/fr/qtype_myquestion.php but as tinymceplugins are not considered as "real" plugins I think this doesn't work for the moment.

Moodle developers have don't a fantastic job to permit internationalization of tinymce plugins without having to modify javascript sources but unfortunately the work is not finished now and tinymce plugins are not really "plugin-able", we miss :

- users preferences see  MDL-19245

- admin page with global editor settings and management of the editor's plugins (and ability to activate a new plugin without editing the lib/editor/tinymce/lib.php file) see MDL-19529

- ability for the plugin to have it's own lang files (I don't remember having seen an issue in the tracker for that one. Maybe there is a place where you can put lang files that I don't know ?)

 
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Picture of Jean-Michel Védrine
Re: Editor lang strings in 2.1?
Group DevelopersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

Well,

prompted by your question (and the fact that I had to re-add the lang strings for my math plugins at each Moodle upgrade sad) I studied the code of the load_component_strings Moodle's function and in fact there is a file that is searched and where you can put your plugins strings and that will works :

local/en_local/editor_tinymce.php

local/fr_local/editor_tinymce.php

and so on ...

So this is a better solution because if you distribute your plugin with these files, Moodle users will not have to edit any file other than lib/editor/tinymce/lib.php to activate your plugin (unless of course they already have these local files already present for other tinymce plugins as me and in that case they will need to add your strings)

 
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Picture of Jean-Michel Védrine
Re: Editor lang strings in 2.1?
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Hello,

Well in fact I was wrong in my previous message, several errors I should have tested before posting :

first error :

the right path is

dataroot/lang/fr_local/editor_tinymce.php

and second error (the most important one !)

this works for all languages but english because  a rule I had not seen : you can customize a lang string only if it exists in the basic en lang pack first !!

so currently you must still edit the original english file

 
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Picture of Andreas Glombitza
Re: Editor lang strings in 2.1?
 

Hi Jean-Michel,

I tried out the option you suggested, as well as several other places and combinations:

  • dataroot/lang/de_local/editor_tinymce.php
  • dataroot/lang/de/editor_tinymce.php
  • dataroot/local/lang/de/editor_tinymce.php
  • dataroot/local/lang/de_local/editor_tinymce.php
  • local/lang/de/editor_tinymce.php
  • local/de/editor_tinymce.php
  • local/lang/de/editor_tinymce.php
  • local/lang/de_local/editor_tinymce.php
  • lang/de_local/editor_tinymce.php
  • lang/de/editor_tinymce.php

I purged the caches before each try - but not one of them worked, the custom strings were stubbornly displaying in English, while all the rest of the site was in German thoughtful.

Having to offer "English only" modules would be sad, even for the limited case of TinyMCE plugins... can you confirm that it actually worked on your site? Or should we maybe open a tracker item?

 
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Picture of Jean-Michel Védrine
Re: Editor lang strings in 2.1?
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Sorry, I sould have explained more clearly the situation blush re-reading my previous posts they are very unclear !

First thing that I forgot to explain (evident for people having already developped for Moodle but not maybe for everyone !) is that when I speak of dataroot, it's the root of your moodledata folder

So when I said that all the languages other than english are in dataroot/lang that means they are in the lang subfolder of your moodledata ! Sorry.

Now let's see when you must put your strings for your plugins. the situation is not the same for english strings and for the others languages.

For english strings

You can't currently put them in dataroot/lang/en_local because unfortunately the code of the Moodle language manager only permit to REPLACE existing english languages strings not to ADD new ones ! so you have to open lib/editor/tinymce/lang/en/editor_tinymce.php and add your strings here.

Not very easy for casual users sad so i submitted a tracker issue MDL-28536 to explain that if the order of only 2 lines in the Moodle code was changed we could put the new strings in dataroot/lang/en_local and it would work.

Unfortunately my experiences with tracker issues is that even tiny changes takes usualy a very long time to be looked at (can be years !) and more often no decision is taken, or the change is rejected, or if it is accepted it is only applied to futures versions of Moodle. No flattery, but Tim Hunt is one of the most responsive developpers despite his workload approve I mean he doesn't always accept the change, but at least he looks at trackers issues and gives an answer !

So for now we must live with that and edit that file.

Non english strings

Here no problem, just create a dataroot/lang/fr_local/editor_tinymce.php file and put your strings here and it works. The only condition is that english strings are already defined. No string is taken into account if the english string doesn't exist.

So I think your main problem was that I hadn't explained what dataroot means.

I have tested all of this on my 2.1 test site and also I have tested the change that I am proposing in MDL-28536 and it works as expected.

 
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Picture of Andreas Glombitza
Re: Editor lang strings in 2.1?
 

Hi Jean-Michel,

I very much appreciate your patience in explaining (seriously, I think it's exactly this attitude that keeps the community alive!), but I do know about "dataroot" and was using it in the way you just explained. Nevertheless, good to be sure it should work that way - it seems my problem must lie somewhere else, and I'll spend some more time on debugging next week (weekend should be family time smile).

I voted for your tracker item - makes a lot of sense to me to provide consistence and not having to patch more core files than absolutely necessary. Especially if the solution should be so straightforward.

So, just to be sure: once I get it sorted out and working on my installation, and provide an installation package for my plugin on 2.x, I would instruct users to add [language]_local/tinymce_editor.php files to their dataroot (or moodledata dir). For the time being (before the tracker item will be implemented), I also need to provide a custom lib/editor/tinymce/lang/en/editor_tinymce.php to get it working - right?

Best,

Andi

 
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Picture of Jean-Michel Védrine
Re: Editor lang strings in 2.1?
Group DevelopersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

Small correction :

I would instruct users to add [language]_local/tinymce_editor.php files to their dataroot/lang (or moodledata/lang dir). For the time being (before the tracker item will be implemented), I also need to provide a custom lib/editor/tinymce/lang/en/editor_tinymce.php to get it working.

With that change it is exactly what I tested to work.

 
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Pedro Crispim
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

Andi:

Explendid work!!! This is something teachers from my school will appreciate a lot.

I was just wondering if theres some extra configuration that I need to accomplish, because when I installed your interface, the TinyMCE editor no longer is shown in any place (inset label, cloze question editor and so on).

I have Moodle 2.1.2 (just upgraded before instaling your interface) in a LAMP environment.

Thank you a lot for your work.

 
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Picture of Andreas Glombitza
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

Dear Pedro,

you may have a version that doesn't work with Moodle 2.1. (I updated the downloads recently, but the new Moodle plugins repository seems to have "categorial problems" with the contribution).

Find attached the 2.1 version, which I tested on my own 2.1 install. In particular, you will need the lib.php, which is responsible for making TinyMCE appear (the modifications in the original lib.php are actually very small and could also be done manually - register an additional plugin "clozeeditor" and add an additional button "clozeeditor").

Please come back if you still experience problems smile

Cheers,

Andreas

 
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Picture of Andreas Glombitza
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

Hi all,

I just updated the "Demonstrator" of the CLOZE editor integration with the TinyMCE version of the editor (the demonstrator can actually be used as a "CLOZE creation webservice", which might be useful to some smile) .

Find it at http://cloze.pellic.com

 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
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Hi Andreas,

"the demonstrator can actually be used as a "CLOZE creation webservice", which might be useful to some"

You are quite rigth.

I have done some tests creating questions to paste on your site and download the code just to take a look at it.

As long as your tool can be used as an external moodle tool i.e. not in moodle official code, it is an usefull tool for peoples that do not master the cloze code.

There are similar tools i.e. for create import question files in GIFT format.

The final result being that the final question text will work correctly, it is doing just a limited validation of the question to insert in the main question text. 

The more complex decode and validate process done in the main code remains necessary.

Pierre

P.S. as an example {1:NUMERICAL:%100%SHORTANSWER_C#}  was generated without validation of SHORTANSWER_C  as a valid numerical answer wink.

 

 

 
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Picture of Achim Skuta
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

Hello Pierre and everyone else,

I'm Andreas' co-worker on this small project to support teachers in creating cloze quizzes. Let me start by saying that I'm glad for all requests and replies you posted so far.

Well, then, Pierre, thank you for your hint to this problem! Let me rephrase it to make sure I'm clear about this: "In a numerical quiz question, every answer should have an integer type and should definitely not be a string." This, of course, is true, but what we are wondering about is this: Should this really be addressed in a code generator? It's really easy to check whether the input in the answer field is of type string or integer/float, but if we start there, we might end checking more than the actual amount of output. So I'd like to invite you to discuss this a bit more smile

At this moment, we are trying to implement a reverse parser. This parser will allow users to forward highlighed code from the HTMLArea into the editing window. We hope that this is going to make teachers' life a lot easier because they will be able to update questions easily and straightforward.

 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
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Hi Achim,

"In a numerical quiz question, every answer should have an integer type and should definitely not be a string."

More precisely I wrote

"was generated without validation of SHORTANSWER_C  as a valid numerical answer"

So 3.1416 will be a good numerical value and even 3,1416 in 2.1wink.

The main problem with adding the additional cloze editor to the edit_multianswer_form.php is that user will expect that the question inserted by the editor will pass the following validate process  when the form will be submitted.

That is to say that an editor validation equivalent to the validate process of the edit_multianswer_form.php should be done each time the user click on Insert.

As far as I understand ( Tim is the real expert on this) we will need to duplicate in the microeditor all the validation code which imply all the properties of the actual 3 question types that can be added to a cloze question.

I do think but perhaps I am not right, that the actual question code should be processed on the server side for safety reasons. If this is so, the code maintenance of these 2 versions is not a good thing.

If this is proposed as an external tool, there is an implicit statement that you use it at your own risk. I am more at ease with such a solution.

This could be added as a warning to your tool and then the Modle local manager team could choose to add the editor as an additional feature to their site with the necessary additional infos in the local docs.

 

Pierre

P.S. If you are planning such an official release as plug-in, your comments in the code should be in english and the code should follow the Moodle code rules. Tim tool is highly recommened

https://github.com/timhunt/moodle-local_codechecker

 

 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
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Hi Achim,

An additional comment on using such a tool as a Moodle official interface to create questions is that the proposed interface do not follow the quite rigid rules of Moodle forms that are the standard way to interface with users.

Perhaps theses mandatory rules are not as mandatory as I think.

We need Tim's advice on this.

Pierre

 
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Picture of Achim Skuta
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

Hello Pierre,

Creating a different "view" is no problem, I guess. The worst part, as always, is the "model" wink Where can I find information how the interface has to be designed?

 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Editing interface as add-on on edit_multianswer_form??? ?
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 This was implemented some years ago see;

http://docs.moodle.org/dev/lib/formslib.php

If you want to follow all the rules you will need to reproduce almost all the complex interface of the question types allowed in Cloze.

The most important rule is to define only one parameter on a single line.

However as long as your subquestion editor is inside the edit_multianswer_form, there are some implicit rules, one of them is that it generates the code for a valid subquestion.

A large part of this first rule is done with your actual code. However in 1,9 users can add links to image and even add image as part of the answer (i.e. multiplechoice) or feedback as this is allowed in the corresponding question type.

Although this feature has not been implemented in 2,0,  this will be done (MDL-26511) in a near future wink.

Once this is implemented, it will be complex to edit these subquestions parts inside your subquestion editor.

In all cases your code should recognized that the user is inside an actual subquestion i.e. {1... } and select all the subquestion so that reedition is possible. I was able to create a subquestion inside a first one some days ago on your demo which is not available today.

However if your editor is outside the edit_multianswer_form although is can be opened by a link that is on the edit_multianswer_form, then everything is more easy to handle as the user is responsible to the correct use of the "subquestion skeleton" built.

 We need Tim advice on such a proposal. 

Pierre

 

 
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Picture of Achim Skuta
Re: Editing interface as add-on on edit_multianswer_form??? ?
 

Hi Pierre,

thanks for your response. I didn't even know you could have subquestions, and can't imagine how this looked like wink I'm not completely into Moodle questions, but I'll contact Andi when he finally comes back next week.

I had a quick glance at the formslib page. It will indeed take some time to push such an update to the quiz interface and I don't see this as an urgent task at the moment.

What I'm actually concerned about, is a variety of possible questions so I could check whether our editor is able to parse any (working!) cloze quiz into the form. Is there a page where I could find all different kinds of quizzes? A sample of five per type would be awesome, and unfortunately it is difficult to come up with all possible variations myself.

 
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Man with dog
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

I greatly like the concept of the Cloze for creating tables with short answer fill-in's as quizzes.  See attached sample Cloze question.

The problem I keep running up against is getting the quiz to properly add up the points for the correct answers given.  It does show the right and wrong answers...but messes up the points earned.

Example of Cloze questions with fill-in short answers as a table or chart

I have tried chenging the individual questions points...etc.

Also, is there a way to enable the editor for students to type in chemical formulas that have subscript text, such as H2O?  For essay questions...the editor appears...but not for Short Answer or Cloze...

Short answer compared to Essay with editor

We current are still on Moodle 1.9...but hope to get to 2.0 by next semester.

 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
Group DevelopersGroup Particularly helpful MoodlersGroup TestersGroup Translators

Your problem could be related with the fact that you give to each question a different growing grade 1+2+3+4 with a total grade of 1176 !!!

Pierre

 
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Man with dog
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

Excellent catch!  Yes,  I mistook that field as the quiz item identifier.  I have now reset all to 1 point and the scores are accurate. 

Example of Cloze questions with fill-in short answers as a table or chart

Now...if we can get an editor to function with the cloze for entering special characters (such as sub scripts for chemical formulas as in H2O)...this will work well.  Thank you for your help!

Attached are my corrected cloze quiz items (Short Answers in a table) for anyone who wants to play with them.  I am thinking we can also use this same cloze table trick with a background image...to create a quiz with  fill-in labels to name the parts of the image.  For example, it could be a quiz on the bones of the body, or parts of an engine, etc.

 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
Group DevelopersGroup Particularly helpful MoodlersGroup TestersGroup Translators

 

Even with your high grades, on 1,9 that we used at my university the grade was not the same

Commencé le dimanche 16 octobre 2011, 01:02
Terminé le dimanche 16 octobre 2011, 01:03
Temps mis 1 min 42 secs
Points 2/1425
Note

0.01 sur un maximum de 10 (0%)

 

 

What specific 1,9 version do you have ?

Pierre

 
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Pierre Pichet
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
Group DevelopersGroup Particularly helpful MoodlersGroup TestersGroup Translators

As for using subscript numericals as in chemical formulas the best trick I know is the one suggested by Joseph Rézeau

http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=131325&parent=644198

Pierre

P.S. as for using editor for each shortanswer included in a Cloze question, the computer workload will be out of scale for a cloze question like yours that contains more that 40 subquestions !!!wink

 
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Picture of Michel Santoli
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

Hi Andreas,


sorry if this is not the right place to ask, but do you plan to port your plugin to Moodle 2.3? This plugin is so useful fot non-techies teachers!

Thanks,

Michel

 
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Picture of Andreas Glombitza
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

Dear Michel,


at the moment, it's a bit problematic to use time for updating, but we will definitely see to it at some point in the near future. I haven't yet looked into 2.3, if the TinyMCE version hasn't changed, not many changes should be necessary. If you have a test system, you might want to try the latest version and see if it works?

Alternatively, you can direct your users to the "web editor", where you can make your CLOZE quizzes and then copy the finished output to the question field on your own Moodle installation. This doesn't involve any interfering with Moodle's files, it may be the easiest way to go if you don't have 100 quizzes to make per day wink

http://projects.ael.uni-tuebingen.de/quiz/htmlarea


Best,

Andi

 
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Picture of Marcus Green
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers

Andi, that system now appears to include parseing of the syntax in the form so it is possible to select the text of a question and be presented with the fields populted with appropriate values. This is very impressive.

 
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Picture of Andreas Glombitza
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

Hi Markus,

glad you find it useful.

Yes, the editor now works in both directions - we figured it's much more useful if you can also edit EXISTING quizzes, so we included "reverse parsing" of the syntax. It's javascript based and independent of Moodle's own parsing mechanism. Coding props go to Achim Skuta smile

Best,

Andi

 
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Picture of Marcus Green
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers

I only noticed it last night and it makes a huge amount of difference. My frustrations with the Cloze syntax drove me to create a whole new question type, but this makes Cloze much more usable.

 
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Dr. Peter Gehbauer, PhD
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

Hello,

An issue that I am wrestling with is generating a larger number of similar cloze questions for a test bank and for frequent student use. Certainly, little is gained when the student gets the same question each time so generating a larger number of cloze questions with random selection provides the challenge and variety that student learning for mastery requires.

 

For example, when investigating a quadratic equation, many sub-problems arise (see attachment.) What I've resorted to is generating the code needed by:

  1. creating a generic question
  2. replacing variable elements with wildcards
  3. creating a java program to modify (using String.replace) the wildcards with the required content
  4. within java, calculate the expected outcomes and replacing those wildcards in the generic question
  5. for different variants (two-root, one-root, no-root), some NM questions needed to be modified to SHORTANSWER -- something I was able to do in java by selecting from one of three generic questions
  6. once tested, create a group and generate a number of questions of each time, one type per group
  7. creating a quiz with a randomly selected question from each group

Seems to do the job nicely. Your CLOZE editor is useful as a resource for helping to generate the generic question code though I also needed to use the codecogs equation editor to produce nice-looking equations too.

 

Anyway, thought I'd share these insights.

 

Cheers, Peter

 


 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

Well, that particular question would work much better using STACK.

But in general, for complex question generation situations, writing some software to generate a file that you can then import into Moodle is a workable solution.

 
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Dr. Peter Gehbauer, PhD
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

Hi,

I tried installing the stack but was frustrated by the errors in the process and some inconsistency in the instructions. Any tips on installing stack? Maybe there is a particular order required? I think I got the locations right. It says that there are 5 components yet on the download page there are six -- though one seems to be for backward compatibility (I ignored that one.)

Cheers, Peter

 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

The install instructions are https://github.com/maths/moodle-qtype_stack/blob/master/doc/en/Installation/index.md Note the following page about testing the installation.

Once you have STACK installed, you really need to work through https://github.com/maths/moodle-qtype_stack/blob/master/doc/en/Authoring/Authoring_quick_start.md

 
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Dr. Peter Gehbauer, PhD
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
 

Is there an easier, less invasive way of installing Fnuplot and Maxima? I got the following from my ISP....

"Thank you for contacting xxx about installing additional modules for your Moodle software.

I have researched the two components [Gnuplot and Maxima] that you have requested but unfortunately these are both RPM-based components, which means that they need to be installed server-wide and thus affect the entire community of users on our system. Unfortunately due to the security and maintenance implications such installations are not permitted on our shared hosting environment. You would need to upgrade to a VPS or dedicated server environment. Our VPS hosting starts at 40$/month and our Dedicated hosting starts at 79$/month (excluding cPanel and other licenses). If you would like for me to upgrade you to a VPS or dedicated server setup please let me know and I can help with the grunt work for switching you over.

If you have any additional questions concerning this issue I invite you to write back while keeping the subject line intact and we'll do our absolute best to continue addressing your concerns. "

This concern is echoed by others, I'm sure. Any ideas whether (a) the assertion made by the ISP is valid; or, (b) whether there are installation and use solutions that are less difficult; or, (c) other alternatives.

Graph plotting seems well managed now and I am happy with the jsxgraph solution (though it would be nice to specify more reasonable scale labelling intervals that match the grid).

 
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Picture of Marcus Green
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
Group Particularly helpful Moodlers

STACK gives you a great deal more than graph plotting. I recommend  installing and playing with it on your own sandbox machine and then if those features seem worth it to you consider a VPS solution.

A VPS would give you much more control and flexibility over your site. Your ISP is probably just saying that it is one more thing to worry about rather than anything about known issues.

You might end up thinking of it as FUplot when configuring smile

 
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Tim at Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
Group DevelopersGroup Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful Moodlers

Your host is right. It is unreasonable to expect to install the STACK pre-requisites on a shared server. You probably need at least VPS to run STACK.

 
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Picture of German Valero
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
Group Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful MoodlersGroup Translators

Hi,

Moodle Documentation for the cloze editor add-on is available at http://docs.moodle.org/25/en/Cloze_editor_module . Translation of the English language strings is also explained at Moodle Docs page.

The download files for Moodle 1.9, 2.0, 2.1 and 2.4 (works with 2.5.2 too) are in http://code.google.com/p/moodle-cloze-editor21/downloads/list .

This is a very useful add-on for non-technically inclined teachers. Maybe we should start a new forum thread about it's need/usefullness.

 

 
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Picture of German Valero
Re: Editing interface for Cloze-questions
Group Documentation writersGroup Particularly helpful MoodlersGroup Translators

Hi,

The cloze editor add-on also works with Moodle 2.5, 2.6 and 2.7DEV (as of february 25th, 2014) smile

The Documentation page at http://docs.moodle.org/26/en/Cloze_editor_module has been updated and screen images were added to illustrate it smile 

This is a very useful and easy-to use add-on for making CLOZE questions. 

You can argue / vote for suggesting this add-on for inclusion in Moodle core at https://tracker.moodle.org/browse/MDL-39013 

 
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