Cloze question editing simplifying

Cloze question editing simplifying

by Ralf Hilgenstock -
Number of replies: 26
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators

An often critized point is the editing of cloze questions. Hotpotatoe and eXeLearning shows that editing clozes can be done much easier.

My idea is to define a new option of  formatting for clozes with a single correct option by adding a starting and ending sign that is replaced by saving the question.

Example: The Quiz module is |maintained| and extended by Tim Hunt of the Open University. You may wish to browse and/or contribute to the Quiz module |documentation|, Quiz FAQ and the Quiz |developer| documentation.

saved as:

Example: The Quiz module is {1:SA:=maintained} and extended by Tim Hunt of the Open University. You may wish to browse and/or contribute to the Quiz module {1:SA:=documentation}, Quiz FAQ and the Quiz {1:SA:=developer} documentation.

I don't know if this is possible from developing aspects.

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Ralf Hilgenstock

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by rupert salmon -

No doubt others have done the same :

I use the accompanying macro in word to create the blanks.  You should see a box with "transforme le texte" on the page (I live in France) you hit this after selecting the bit of text to make into a blank.

(Beware the macro may remain hidden in which case do the following : In tools / macro / sécurity  set security to medium. After accept to activate macros when opening the doc.)

Average of ratings: -
In reply to rupert salmon

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by rupert salmon -

Sorry I sent an example completed. Here's the empty word doc with macro (see attached)

Average of ratings: -
In reply to rupert salmon

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Ralf Hilgenstock -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators

Hi Rupert,

yes I know there are several macros or tools simplyfying question editing. Thanks for sharing your solution. Andreas Grabs made a small desktop application that creates he code also.

But this is only a workaround and not a solution if Moodle cloze question editing is uncomfortable. Personally I know the syntax and can write it directly.

 

Ralf

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Ralf Hilgenstock

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Tim Hunt -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers

It would be quite easy to make a question type like this. I would be inclined to build it from scratch, rather than basing it on Cloze. Overall, it would be simpler, I think.

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Ralf Hilgenstock -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators

Good idea to create a a new question type 'Simple Cloze Question'.

Where are the developers to write the code?

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Ralf Hilgenstock

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Pierre Pichet -

There a some javascript editors that can help you create cloze questions.

Then you just copy back to the text the resulting {1:...}.

To work correctly these editors need to validate the question which is aready include in the decode button in the actual Cloze editor.

If there is only one "simple question" we could probably quite easily add a new editing function that replace |agoodresponse| by a text that is in an input element containing the other cloze syntax element {1:SA=...} .

this could be changed if you want another series with  different grade or etc.

And then you come back with a more or less specific HTML editor based on the standard one with all the validation process.

Or more simply we just add under the actual HTML editor a text copy of the cloze questions variants so that the user does not need to

  • use the cloze microscopic help then
  • the help doc on another window

to access the help info.

Pierre

P.S. Users on this forum either

  • want the more possible flexibility to build a complex quiz using only one Cloze question
  • want the simplest possible interface to rapidly build a test in a single Cloze question.

There is a "morale" to this, our question building interface is horribly complex and lengthy to build a quiz for your students for tomorrow morning...

Cloze is a shortcut even easier than the Gift format which create multiple questions.

Your suggestions to improve the Cloze usefullness without adding complexity are welcomed.

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Pierre Pichet

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Itamar Tzadok -
There is a "morale" to this, our question building interface is horribly complex and lengthy to build a quiz for your students for tomorrow morning...

That's actually a good thing ... if an instructor builds a quis for his/her students for tomorrow morning, the course does not seem to be well organized and well thought of ... which is a bad thing. smile

Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Pierre Pichet -

One proposal will be to use the advanced function on moodle form to add some additional help to "non advanced" users.

  • a text help of various subquestions type so that the user can use copy and paste to insert these prototypes in his question text.(like the 1,9 help).
  • a specific decode |response| to {1:SA=response}  (we could propose different question types).
  • and a  subquestion editor.
    As this is integrated in the edit_multianswer_form.php code, it could use the same code.
    Is there a "simple" way to modify the standard HTML editor to insert subquestion  skeletal {..} subquestion texts?
  • another way to help users...

 

Pierre

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Pierre Pichet -

Tim,

If you agree,  I will create a new improvement issue in the tracker to add this conversion of |answer| to either {1:SA:=answer} or {1:SAC:=answer}  (i.e. use case) on the actual edit_multianswer-form.php.

This will be an additional non submit button to convert any |....| in the question text to a standard shortanswer {..} text .

As for the actual decode the questions button, the questions in question text will be validated and displayed.

 

Pierre

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Pierre Pichet

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Tim Hunt -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers

Well, the danger is that people have Cloze questions that use || symbols for something else, and suddenly they would break. Also, this adds more complexity to the already complex Cloze syntax.

So, I am not convinced that this is a good idea. I think it needs more thought/discussion.

Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Pierre Pichet -

My objective is not to add a new syntax to Cloze question type but help people build Cloze questions.

The |answers| convention I plan, is only valid in the edit_multianswer_form editor.

User could prepare a text in any text editor they want and then just paste the text in the editor.

Then they convert it . If they do not convert the |answers| by using the convert || button, there is no valid questions.

This is just an helper to limit the typing...

At least we could make an exception and put more help on  the form even as a list of the different questions so that they can paste it.

Questions consist of a passage of text (in Moodle format) that has various sub-questions embedded within it, including

    • short answers (SHORTANSWER or SA or MW), case is unimportant,{1:SA:=answer#feedback~%100%answer#feedback)}
    • short answers (SHORTANSWER_C or SAC or MWC), case must match,{1:SA:=answer#feedback~%50%Answer#feedback)}
    • numerical answers (NUMERICAL or NM),etc
    • multiple choice (MULTICHOICE or MC), represented as a dropdown menu in-line in the text
    • multiple choice (MULTICHOICE_V or MCV), represented a vertical column of radio buttons, or
    • multiple choice (MULTICHOICE_H or MCH), represented as a horizontal row of radio-buttons.

 

We could make this list available using the Advanced button.

I am somewhat reluctant to build (and sustain...) a more complete subquestion editor unless there is an easy way to mix javascript and php in moodle_form

so that there is no reload like the few functions as freeze.

 

Pierre

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Pierre Pichet

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Tim Hunt -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers

I think that your suggestion of putting more help on the form is a good one. It does not change how existing questions work, and helps teachers learn how to make Cloze questions.

I would have that always available. Displaying it only when 'Show advanced' is clicked seems wrong. If anything you want to hide it when show advanced is clicked, but I don't think that is possible wink

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Pierre Pichet -

I think that the display should not be shown as default.

I could use the 'Show advanced' as I have done in datasetitems_forms although it is only active on input elements which can be confusing.

However somebody set a rule on edit_question.._form so that if one element is set to setAdvanced = true, all the other elements show the advanced button. This is not the case in datasetdefinitions_form.php.

So my proposal is that  the "Show more help" will be turn on or off with a NoSubmitButton and set initially to no display which is the standard feature for help.

Pierre

 

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Ralf Hilgenstock -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators

Here is the structure of my often used explanation during trainings:

 

A typical cloze looks like this:
{1:SHORTANSWER:=London#Correct~Paris#wrong}

In the brackets you'll find three elements:

  1. weight of answer
  2. cloze type definition
  3. answering options and feedback


In detail:

  • { starts a cloze
  • 1 the number defines the weight of a cloze for grading
  • : separator before and after cloze type definition
  • SHORTANSWER definition of cloze types (see all optional definitions below)
  • = defines a correct answer at the beginning
  • # separator for feedback to the option (optional)
  • ~separator for next wrong answering option
  • ~= separator for a correct answering option
  • } closes a cloze


There are several types of clozes that can be used. Write them in upper signs and exactly as in the description. Don't use blank spaces.

  • short answers (SHORTANSWER or SA or MW), case is unimportant,
  • short answers (SHORTANSWER_C or SAC or MWC), case must match,
  • numerical answers (NUMERICAL or NM),
  • multiple choice (MULTICHOICE or MC), represented as a dropdown menu in-line in the text
  • multiple choice (MULTICHOICE_V or MCV), represented a vertical column of radio buttons, or
  • multiple choice (MULTICHOICE_H or MCH), represented as a horizontal row of radio-buttons.
Average of ratings: -
In reply to Ralf Hilgenstock

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Ravi Vare -
Hi Ralf,
I think you can understand my problem easily. and suggest/give proper solution.

http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=168876#p740834

http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=169825#p744959

I want use (within one para) "all options" become "options" for each 'Blank'.

with minimum CODING

I hope you can understand.


TIA

Ravi
Average of ratings: -
In reply to Ravi Vare

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Ralf Hilgenstock -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators

Hi Ravi

Its not possible to repeat the entries by coding into each gap. Each gap has to be defined individually. You also have to define what's a correct/incorrect answer for each gap.   You can use cut&paste to add the description and change only whats correct.

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Ralf Hilgenstock

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Ravi Vare -
Hi,
OK.
But Gordon Bateson suggested "excel function'".

http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=169825#p744959

Could you give some trick in detail.
I am newer to moodle.
Thanks


Ravi
Average of ratings: -
In reply to Ravi Vare

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Ralf Hilgenstock -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators

I think it will be simpler for most teachers to prepare one line of code like this:  {1:MC:~Answer1~Answer2Anwser3~Answer4~Answer5}; to copy the line and to add it in the text for each cloze. You have now only to add /replace a '=' sign for the correct answer.

 

Text part 1 {1:MC:=Answer1~Answer2~Anwser3~Answer4~Answer5}
Text part 2 {1:MC:~Answer1=~Answer2~Anwser3~Answer4~Answer5}
Text part 3 {1:MC:~Answer1~Answer2=Anwser3~Answer4~Answer5}
Text part 4 {1:MC:~Answer1~Answer2~Anwser3~=Answer4~Answer5}
Text part 5 {1:MC:~Answer1~Answer2~Anwser3~Answer4~=Answer5}
Text part 6 {1:MC:=Answer1~Answer2Anwser3~Answer4~Answer5}

 

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Ralf Hilgenstock

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Ravi Vare -
Thanks Ralf,
and thanks for immediate response.

Best Regards,
Ravi
Average of ratings: -
In reply to Ralf Hilgenstock

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Ravi Vare -
Hi Ralf,
I think you can understand my problem easily. and suggest/give proper solution.

http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=168876#p740834

http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=169825#p744959

I want use (within one para) "all options" become "options" for each 'Blank'.

with minimum CODING

I hope you can understand.


TIA

Ravi
Average of ratings: -
In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Pierre Pichet -

If I want to display more info, scrolling could be a solution.

Either something like a non editable textarea or a "scrolling" div ?

I know how to set a textarea but what about scrolling on a moodle form ?

Pierre

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Tim Hunt

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Ralf Hilgenstock -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators

Hi Tim,

what about a setting page for the question type with option to define the seperator sign? Then the admin can define an other seperator if required.

 

Ralf

 

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Ralf Hilgenstock

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Pierre Pichet -

Hi Ralf,

Do you want the || convention be applied as a temporary form of questiontext in the editor in this case whatever we use is clearer if it is the same for all moodle installations.

Although | is visually a convenient separator ( regular expressions are using it) , it is perhaps not the best one.

Pierre

P.S. Using this thread seems more convenient to me, in any way this should be understood as a subtitute to Tim wink.

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Pierre Pichet

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Ralf Hilgenstock -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators

Didn't thought about regexp. '|' only was a first idea. You now better which sign is not running into conflicts with other functionalities.

Tims suggestion of a new question type seems to be very attractive for me. Simple cloze covers the most often used type of cloze questions. It shouldn't give all options as normal cloze question have.

Average of ratings: -
In reply to Pierre Pichet

Re: Cloze question editing simplifying

by Joseph Rézeau -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers Picture of Translators

Hi Pierre,

Actually, for anyone using my REGEXP question type as a sub-question within a Cloze question, the pipe | separator might be used inside the REGEXP sub-question, so it should not be used as separator for the "simplified" SHORTANSWER.

Joseph

Average of ratings: -