Server Sizing Guide for Moodle

Server Sizing Guide for Moodle

by Mark Stevens -
Number of replies: 15
Dear All,

I've searched the forums, but I can't seem to find an answer to this question:

Does Moodle have a server sizing guide?

I'm asking the question here, but maybe it's more appropriate in the documentation forum.

Many universities are considering Moodle, and it would be nice to have a document similar to the server sizing guides that Blackboard and WebCT give to prospective clients.

In my case, I'm looking for a formal document that could be placed next to the detailed server sizing guides from Blackboard and WebCT.

I'm willing to edit the English language version if that will help smile

The devil is in the detail smile

Sincerely,
Mark
Average of ratings: -
In reply to Mark Stevens

Re: Server Sizing Guide for Moodle

by Timothy Takemoto -

Please can you post the server sizing documention from WebCT or Blackboard?

Tim

In reply to Timothy Takemoto

Re: Server Sizing Guide for Moodle

by Mark Stevens -
They are proprietary and confidential and I think they are lost to the dark side... smile

On the bright side, I think these forums contain enough information for a Good/Better/Best document... If no one has one already, I can start compiling one.

The recent postings about NZ's 30K students would be a "Best"... while the G3 Mac would be in the "Good" category smile

Cheers,
Mark
In reply to Mark Stevens

Re: Server Sizing Guide for Moodle

by Thomas Haynes -
I found this via "googling." It was dated 2002

"Newcastle have bought BB Level 3, installed it, then their LTSS-equivalent got their server taken away by Computing Services. They are an Aleph site and are interested in BB integration (even though their Library may not be). Stephen McCready is the contact.


BB have quietly increased the sizing of the hardware footprint (from http://support.blackboard.com/bin/common/bbdocs.pl?type=4):

Hardware requirements for more than 6,000 active users but less than 12,000 active users

  • Two server configuration. One server for the application and file system and another server for the database.

  • Quad processors in each server. Pentium III 700 Mhz Xeon processors or Sun UltraSparc-II 450 Mhz processors.

  • 4 GB of RAM in each server.

  • Appropriate amount of hard drive space in a RAID array for each server.

  • Two 10/100 network cards for each server

General indication that no-one was buying development licenses for test (as in a place to rehearse patches/upgrades) systems; just do it!"

In reply to Mark Stevens

Re: Server Sizing Guide for Moodle

by Martín Langhoff -
Mark, I don't think there's such document... all yours mate! I'm happy to help (being behind the NZ cluster thingamy). This is the type of document where a wiki shines... do we have a wiki around here? I thought we did...? Ah, there it is! The Developer Wiki!

Reports from sysadmins runnign WebCT/BB need not be trade secrets, maybe we can get some of those?
In reply to Mark Stevens

Re: Server Sizing Guide for Moodle

by Jim Eyster -

Hi, Mark,

I am going to attach an Adobe whitepaper file for Bb server requirements.  I am also going to investigate WebCT as our institution is debating what system to utilize.  Currently we are running Bb Basic.

Average of ratings: Useful (1)
In reply to Jim Eyster

Re: Server Sizing Guide for Moodle

by Mark Stevens -
Hi,

I'm sorry that I wasn't clear enough.  I have server sizing guides for Bb and WebCT, but we need a server sizing guide for Moodle.

It's not a big deal really.  The hardware is more or less the same for most learning management systems, right? (sometimes a lot more ;) )  And people choose the LMS for reasons other than hardware, right?  All the same, it would be nice to have a server sizing guide for Moodle.

Thanks,
Mark
In reply to Mark Stevens

Re: Server Sizing Guide for Moodle

by Jim Eyster -
OK.  Guess I will just wait to hear what you discovered.  wink
In reply to Mark Stevens

Re: Server Sizing Guide for Moodle

by Howard Miller -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers
If I may give you my $00.02, I think you are seriously missing the point/benefit of an open-source platform like Moodle by trying to compare server-sizing 'guides' against those produced for proprietary products. Most proprietary products have restrictive licensing agreements along the lines of "this many users on this many courses running on this many servers", so you could easily be looking at specifying a single, robust, expensive machine to run your VLE. In this scenario it is a serious decision and getting the machine right matters.

However, with Moodle (and most other server based o/s software) things are very different. You *know* that take up in your institution is going to be organic, your WebCT license for 20,000 seats will not be used from day one (or two), so for several months you will be under-using some expensive bit of hardware. What you can/should consider is buying a commodity 1U server for $1000 or whatever sticking it in you rack and running Linux and Moodle(s) on it. In real terms it has cost you almost nothing. When it starts to get slow buy another and set up another moodle(s) for some other chunk of the institution.

If you don't believe me, look at the web server 'farms' of Linux boxes all just running Apache. They have hundreds of cheap machines each handling a bit of the business. When you need more capacity add more machines - it stays efficient.

Sorry for the rant, but I hope it helps smile
In reply to Howard Miller

Re: Server Sizing Guide for Moodle

by Neil Aubrey -

Thanks

I appreciate your frankness.

In reply to Neil Aubrey

Re: Server Sizing Guide for Moodle

by Howard Miller -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers
big grin

I worry (if that's the word) that commercial vendors use issues like this as a marketing tool. It's an extension of those tick-box comparision charts. This tick box is the one that says "VLE has a server sizing guide", and webct/blackboard score a point because they have one and Moodle doesn't. However, as with this and the rest of the tick-boxes you have to be sure you are comparing apples with apples, and very often with open-source/proprietary decisions you are not - you have to think the open-source 'way'.

Sorry - ranting again - Monday thing!!
In reply to Howard Miller

Re: Server Sizing Guide for Moodle

by Mark Stevens -
I believe and agree 100% with you, but they are looking at old paradigms... blue suits and documents full of legalese... lack of which is seen as a weakness...

Your points should and must be included in the document.  For example, we need to quantify the point at which a Moodle/Open Source solution is slow and needs an additional 1U.  We know it by feel/use.  They have to read what we already know big grin  Open Source's future's so bright it burns... wink


In reply to Howard Miller

Why we need a guide

by Michael Penney -
What you can/should consider is buying a commodity 1U server for $1000 or whatever sticking it in you rack and running Linux and Moodle(s) on it. In real terms it has cost you almost nothing. When it starts to get slow buy another and set up another moodle(s) for some other chunk of the institution.

Unfortunatly, this is not a procedure that will be acceptable at any major US institutions.

For one thing, spending tends to happen in discreet chunks at given times. In most large Us, moodle would be stuck on the slow hardware, faculty and students complaining about how slow open source software is the whole time, until the next funding cycle. The way most CIOs at big Us think is in 'packages', you buy a server and a license, assign staff to install it, test it, and then you should be able to pretty much leave it alone until the next semester break.

Also, IT staff can't just drop in-progress projects to set up and test a new server whenever the old one seems slow.

Thus, major upgrades (which most CIOs regard putting new servers online as) tend to be scheduled between semesters.

We generally do things like server maintenance late at night on the weekend to minimize student downtime, so this sort of ad hoc solution isn't going to be very popular with any but the most fanatical FOSS advocates.

Thus if there is no server size guide for Moodle, it makes it a hard sell  to larger Universities (while at smaller ones the lack of skilled IT staff would likely make the CIO run screaming for the hills  if he/she were told they may have to build a cluster sometime in the middle of a semester when the LMS seems to slow down).

This brings up a final major issue with your proposal: at Universities, the load tends to be greatest just at the end of the semester, when all the big mid terms are being given and all the students who have been slacking come racing back to try and salvage their grade. This is the very last time IT staff and admins want to try putting in some new hardware.
In reply to Michael Penney

Re: Why we need a guide

by Mikael Ekblom -
Well, we just take some average recommendation depending on how many users you are planning to have on line at the same time and wohaa there is our server size guide for Moodlesmile

I'm about to go on line next January with my Moodle server and the specs for it will be an Intel Xeon 2.66->, 2 Gigs of RAM, RAID 5 of course, hot spare about everything. Hardware is cheap. This is for round 120 simultaneous users.

Of course, there must be some room for scaling so, ah, we calculate the weighted average for every scenariosmile



In reply to Howard Miller

Re: Server Sizing Guide for Moodle

by Martín Langhoff -
Howard -- I agree with you in most of the points. A sizing guide, however, is useful for planning in many scenarios, and gives people reassurance that Moodle is in use with this or that many users.

Institutions are looking into Moodle to get away from expensive alternatives. That means that they have X students already setup in LMS Z. A subset of students/staff/courses actively use LMS Z. Now, for a full transition to Moodle, you know a number of students will hit it on the first week.

If you are a bit underpowered, well, it's ok, you can grow organically -- though you may need downtime to upgrade. But you can't afford to be too underpowered, if the system if seen as unresponsive or reports come back "Moodle crashed", you lose user's goodwill, and... blah.

I don't such guide, but after years of dealing with web-based systems, I have a good gut feeling that is as good (better?) than a glossy paper guide. Without it, I'd be lost ;)
In reply to Martín Langhoff

Re: Server Sizing Guide for Moodle

by Marcus Green -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
Is this Pointy Haired Boss territory? If so then it would make sense to create the absolute best guess sizing document and add it to the tick list. By the I am not the guy to do this as I run on pocket money shared hosting.

Another issue is that with Free/Libre Open Source software, because you have access to the source, it is possible to do more optimisation and thus there is generally more flexibility than with closed source systems.