The standed hardware req help

The standed hardware req help

by Michael Melton -
Number of replies: 8

Hello all.  Do to limited resources and knowledge, I am ready to take our courses live in the classrooms after getting everything built with an XAMMP load.

After browsing a ton of threads and getting more confused than I thought I could get, a few recommandations would be appreciated.  We will be loading a Windows Server 2003/2007 (depends on recommendations) for the students to hit on a local LAN.  Approx. 90 students logged in and working during the same class period.  Any HDD, processor and RAM input would be appreciated.

I understand a LAMP setup would require less hardware, but I have to stay in my current area of expertise.  I am learning the Ubuntu load as fast as I can but need a working setup for the class now.

Thanks,
Michael

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In reply to Michael Melton

Re: The standed hardware req help

by Howard Miller -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers
Don't use XAMPP. Really, don't. There's plenty of information on installing Moodle on Windows. Much as I hate Windows, if I had to do it I would probably use IIS. XAMPP is only for testing and development and will give you pain.

Unfortunately, your question is impossible to answer without knowing what those students will be doing. If they are all accessing a quiz at the same time (for example) then you might be in a lot of trouble, I have seen reasonably well specced Windows servers give up at 15-20 users. I suspect that you are at least looking at separate Web server and Database boxes and your web box is going to be as big as you can find.
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In reply to Howard Miller

Re: The standed hardware req help

by Michael Melton -

Thanks for the input.  The students will be hitting individualied courses (mixed class working at their own speed).  I had planed on X3460, 2.8 GHz, 8M Cache for my processor and 8G RAM for memory.  The study guides we have are html pages and the quizes are xml files.

As I read more and get smarter I am second guessing our decision to go this route.  Seems an extrordinary amout of expertise and skill is needed to make Apache, php, and MySql to run efficiently.  I originally snagged WAMP and XAMPP as my starting point as they seemed to be a one stop shop and install.  I went with the XAMPP and now see in some FAQs it is not recommended for use other then creating content or internal testing purposes.  While everyone on the forums seem nice and a ton of knowledge, a straight forward install process with recommended settings seems inpossible to find.

If I follwed your recommendation correctly, your recommending that the web server, MySqL portion be on one box and Moodle be placed on a second server?  Thnaks again for the reply.

Michael

PS  I guess if I need to look at seperate installs for the software, I have looked for Moodle v1.9.14.1 stand alone download for Windows and did not see one.  I know there are nrewer versions out there but would like to get this up and running first before upgrading.  Is there a repository of older builds?

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In reply to Michael Melton

Re: The standed hardware req help

by Howard Miller -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers
What you absolutely do not want to do is rely on a certain OLD version of Moodle. You *have* to be able to upgrade to the latest version if you need to (e.g. a bug or a security issue that affects you).

I strongly suspect (although I am no Windows expert) that the spec you are thinking about will not cut it. Two of those maybe!

Are you *sure* you can't go with Linux? The learning curve to administer that is not so bad (probably less than you are going through now) but the setup is (usually) very easy.
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In reply to Howard Miller

Re: The standed hardware req help

by AL Rachels -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Plugin developers Picture of Testers
Howard is so correct about Linux not being so bad to administer now. I just recently set up two servers with Fedora 13. After the initial install, all I had to do was run the Add Remove Software tool and make sure that I had the services manager, Apache, MySQL, and PHP added. The only tricky part was making sure that I had them set to start up as services after any reboot.

I also setup phpMyAdmin to make it easier to create and backup my databases for Moodle. In fact I have multiple copies of Moodle running on both servers so I can try out different modules and ideas without affecting my production Moodle site.

I am in the process of learning how to do this on a Centos version of Linux because it does not have the same rapid development cycle that Fedora has. The only gotcha for it is that it doesn't have the right version of PHP for Moodle 2.0 right now but it runs all the other versions from 1.9.9+ on down.

My main reason for making myself learn how to do all this with Linux is cost. I can use older, cheaper equipment, and service the number of students I need to without any problem.
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In reply to AL Rachels

Re: The standed hardware req help

by Howard Miller -
Picture of Core developers Picture of Documentation writers Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Peer reviewers Picture of Plugin developers
You will find no shortage of opinions but I would recommend Ubuntu 10.04 Long Term Support. Fully Moodle 2.0 ready.

Don't be tempted to use the packaged version of Moodle though. Always download Moodle from here.
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In reply to Michael Melton

Re: The standed hardware req help

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
> The students will be hitting individualied courses (mixed class working at their own speed).

In that case, you won't have sharp peaks like many requesting something from the server within the same couple of seconds. i.e. less demanding on ressources.

> I had planed on X3460, 2.8 GHz, 8M Cache for my processor and 8G RAM for memory. The study guides we have are html pages and the quizes are xml files.

The quizes require lot of ressources by nature. See the parallel discussion "Quizzes : performance on exams period" http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=149959

> Seems an extrordinary amout of expertise and skill is needed to make Apache, php, and MySql to run efficiently.

It depends. For one which OS you've chosen. Windows sounds tempting, but their problems tell a different story. Linux comes in various flavours, from do-it-yourself to highly packaged. The general advice is not to go for too much packaging, it is contraproductive once it comes to maintenance and upgrade. You should know what is happening in your server after all.

> I originally snagged WAMP and XAMPP as my starting point as they seemed to be a one stop shop and install.

The "one stop shop" is not always a blessing. See my earlier comment.

> I went with the XAMPP and now see in some FAQs it is not recommended for use other then creating content or internal testing purposes.

The doc-page on XAMPP http://docs.moodle.org/en/XAMPP says right at the top "It is built to test web based programs on a personal computer. It is not meant for online access via the web on a production server".

> While everyone on the forums seem nice and a ton of knowledge, a straight forward install process with recommended settings seems inpossible to find.

For a reason! See my comment on maintanace above.

> If I follwed your recommendation correctly, your recommending that the web server, MySqL portion be on one box and Moodle be placed on a second server?

I would give the available server a chance, as others have said, with a better OS and a php-accelerator.

BTW, did you read the relevant docs http://docs.moodle.org/en/Performance and http://docs.moodle.org/en/Performance_FAQ ?
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In reply to Visvanath Ratnaweera

Re: The standed hardware req help

by Michael Melton -

Thanks for the replys all.  As to the server OS, I am installing in not for myself, but other clients, as such I need to go with what they are comfortable with.  MS is their choice and obviously mine at the moment as it is where my knowledge is.

Looks like I will be tearing down what I have at the office and doing a individual load of all the pertinant software (moodle, php, etc) in the upcoming months and doing it "right" versus the XAMMP load, but as we are testing what we have created in a month, no time to switch now.  As a one man shop (server side) and one other who know the html/xml stuff, speed and ease are essential to us.  The XAMMP and WAMP looked like ease to me so I jumped smile  I have never worked with PHP, MySQL, prior to this.  On that note, is there a FAQ with a good install routine for installing on a MS server the moodel, PHP, MySQL as a single document or do I need to research each one stand alone?  It may be interesting and asprin filled time for me these next few weeks. 

I'll be glad to post my experience if any want to hear about it once the students are hitting it.

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In reply to Michael Melton

Re: The standed hardware req help

by Visvanath Ratnaweera -
Picture of Particularly helpful Moodlers Picture of Translators
> As to the server OS, I am installing in not for myself, but other clients, as such I need to go with what they are comfortable with.

Do you mean you have customers who meddle with the server at OS level? I mean, do many people administer the OS?

> As a one man shop (server side) and one other who know the html/xml stuff, speed and ease are essential to us.

Where are the teachers? Who provides the content? You know that to run the default Moodle installation knowledge on html, xml, etc is not necessary?

> On that note, is there a FAQ with a good install routine for installing on a MS server the moodel, PHP, MySQL as a single document or do I need to research each one stand alone?

There is excellent documentation starting from http://docs.moodle.org

> I'll be glad to post my experience if any want to hear about it once the students are hitting it.

Please note that this discussion has nothing to do with "Hardware and performance". The relevent forums could be:
- Installation problems http://moodle.org/mod/forum/view.php?id=28
- General problems http://moodle.org/mod/forum/view.php?id=50
- Windows-based servers http://moodle.org/mod/forum/view.php?id=6799

Good luck!
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